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View Full Version : LEO and "assault weapons"


jnojr
06-24-2005, 7:08 PM
If an LEO gets a letter from their department to buy an "assault weapon", is the gun theirs, or the departments? Can they keep it if they retire, move out of state, quit, etc.?

Trader Jack
06-24-2005, 9:01 PM
At one time the LEO could keep the firearm if they left the department. NOT ANY LONGER. The firearm must be left with the department.

This is the way it should have always been. What gives a LEO any special privilege to posses an assault weapon while the general public can not??

Hell must LEOs can not shoot worth a **** anyway.

trempel_ry@yahoo.com
06-26-2005, 2:16 PM
The department keeps the weapon.

Hey Trader Jack, nice attitude you got. It's not the LEOs' fault that you and your neighbors put left-wing nuts into office so they could take your rights away. Most LEOs are also affected by infingements on 2A rights, both as recreational shooters AND as professionals.
Then again, your attitude is like that of a little child. You got your toys taken away and you want everyone else to suffer as well. That kind of thinking really helps win people over to our side.

BTW, most civilians can't shoot for **** either.

Rascal
06-26-2005, 2:44 PM
Although I don't usually agree with Jack on many things, However I do agree with him on this. LEO's shouldn't be any different than normal citizens, as far as the laws go. There is already way too much elitiszm (spelling?) in our government.
As far as LEO's not shooting worth a damn, Yes many aren't as profishent as they should be, but there are many gun owners that aren't either(including me). The only problem is that LEO's should be much more profishent then citizens, as there is a much more likely chance that they would need to be. Firing over 120 rounds of ammo and NOT Killing the suspect is not IMHO very good shooting. Yes it is harder to have control when the adrenaline is flowing, but their practice should reflect the pressure of real conflict, not recerfication under relaxed conditions.
Just my $0.02

BigAL
06-26-2005, 6:04 PM
Originally posted by Rascal:
Although I don't usually agree with Jack on many things, However I do agree with him on this. LEO's shouldn't be any different than normal citizens, as far as the laws go. There is already way too much elitiszm (spelling?) in our government.


+1. With the increased militarization of police and that attitude that they are above average Joe Citizen the truth is they should have no special privledges that others don't get.

bwiese
06-26-2005, 6:09 PM
Trempel wrote:
Hey Trader Jack, nice attitude you got. It's not the LEOs' fault that you and your neighbors put left-wing nuts into office so they could take your rights away. Most LEOs are also affected by infingements on 2A rights, both as recreational shooters AND as professionals.
Then again, your attitude is like that of a little child. You got your toys taken away and you want everyone else to suffer as well. That kind of thinking really helps win people over to our side.

It may not be the LEO's direct fault that gun grabbers are politically successful.

But just like the gate guards at Auschwitz -"It's just my job, man, I do what they tell me to do" that's not acceptable: CA cops are enforcing these so-called laws, participating in the idiotic drug war, etc.

They may mouth 'support' for 2A and freedom issues but when it comes to putting the meat where their mouth is they still timorously cling to their jobs and fat retire-at-50, 90+% pay pensions (effectively making cops millionaires: how's rest of middle America's 401K?)

If they felt so bad, they'd quit their job. When I don't like what's going on at work, I find a new job - why can't they?

Perhaps it's an IQ issue, and they can't find other gainful employment at cops' salary.
It's no secret now that many PDs often hire from mid to lower IQ levels. It's not called that directly, it's a 'personality assesement' score or some other term. It's easier to boss dumb people around, I guess.

When cops, en masse, stop enforcing CA's AW ban and stop busting perfectly innocent folks for CCW, then they may get some sympathy from me.

Otherwise, they shouldn't get any more privileges in private life than we regular mortals do. Why are they a 'protected species'?

I hope Gov Arnie's successful in reforming Calif. gov't pension plans into defined-contribution plans across the whole public sector (not just teachers). Gov't workers shouldn't be a protected species nor have better benefits than the population they serve - gun-rights-wise or financially.



BTW, most civilians can't shoot for *** either.


That's not the point. A cop should be required to shoot well, he's paid well for it. Yet we see the recent brilliant example of marksmanship in LA - 120+ shots, 4 in perp's car, with some other cops injured by cops' shooting - and severe endangerment to the surrounding community.

Also, somewhere recently I read that cops have more per capita firearms mishaps (accidents, crimes, domestic violence, suicides, etc.) than either the general population at large or the general gun-owning population.



Bill Wiese
San Jose

Mike Searson
06-26-2005, 6:33 PM
Now cops are stupid with low IQ's and compared to nazi gate guards. What a ******* stretch.

As for the number of rounds fired in a gunfight...paper targets don't shoot back. Any of you armchair commandos who have never faced the elephant need to quit running your soup coolers about something you know nothing about.

Cops aren't paid to shoot. Cops are paid to maintain order. When some FNG trying to get hired on by a PD comes to me and asks me what gun he should buy, I tell him to look for another job. The gun is the last tool you need to think of when you become a cop.

Looks like some of you folks traded in your tinfoil hats for the dedicated Aluminium collanders to wear on your pointy heads.

bwiese
06-26-2005, 7:08 PM
Originally posted by Mike Searson:
Now cops are stupid with low IQ's and compared to nazi gate guards. What a ******* stretch.


No stretch at all: [list]

<LI> Many PDs select candidates by a composite score that has an IQ test as a major part of it.
Scores that are too high are often rejected, couched in vague terms like 'perosnality unsuited' - even though interviews went A-OK. Maybe they feel smart people will get bored? (You might remember, as a prime example, the 150IQ cop that tested 'too high' for some east coast PDs. Passed all his physicals, verbals/psych stuff top-notch.) For ex-vets/military, some of these rules are waived (preferential hiring for military experience overrides some testing stuff) so still some bright people getting in...

<LI> The 'gate guard at Auschwitz' reference may have been hyperbole, but it was designed to show how far "it's just my job, man, someone else makes the rules and tells me what to do" has gone, and why cops do not deserve to be privileged species having special private off-duty gun rights others don't have.

If mere mortals can't CCW, cops shouldn't off-duty either. If mortals can't own AWs, cops shouldn't have privately-owned AWs either. No two tiers allowed.

And for all the cops that say they support 2nd Amendment rights, I'll believe that when - if a cop pulls me over for a traffic stop, and finds out I have a gun under the front seat - sez, "Here's your ticket, and that's a nice Colt!"
Or, doesn't worry if my AW is registered. If he continues, then I know he's a shill for Democrats & grabbers and is anti-freedom.


As for the number of rounds fired in a gunfight...paper targets don't shoot back.


Always the same tired argument brought out.

Sounds like mass hysteria to me, combined with poor planning. The fact that rounds were going into the neighborhood means that the AREA WAS SAFER WITHOUT COPS THAN WITH THEM.

I think a few higher IQ cops would realize you can shoot thru a vehicle and hit your buddy on the opposite side.

If they haven't had the training, they need to get some on their own. I pay to learn skills in my field, why can't they?

BTW Cops have relatively safe jobs - far safer than 7-11 clerks or taxi drives. Only, what, around 100ish cops died last year, with a big chunk from general car accidents?

Cop lifespan is, BTW, affected by alcoholism and suicide.

Hell, if I were a rights violator I'd drink myself to death, too, in shame.

Cops aren't paid to shoot. Cops are paid to maintain order.

Like private-sector jobs, cops are (or should be!) paid to do the right thing at the right time. That means they are, amongst other things, paid to know how to shoot well and know when not to shoot.

Looks like some of you folks traded in your tinfoil hats for the dedicated Aluminium collanders to wear on your pointy heads.

Nope.

I just like freedom. I see cops reducing it and being complicit with antifreedom politics and becoming tools of the Democrats for being bought out with padded pensions.

I haven't heard of one cop giving up his job because he had a problem with enforcing a law or doing something questionable.

What about those bastards in uniform standing behind Gray Davis or Bill Lockyer when talking about gun bans? These were line cops, not chiefs, BTW.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

MaceWindu
06-26-2005, 7:20 PM
Whew....Bill that was DEEP!

MaceWindu

Mike Searson
06-26-2005, 7:33 PM
Alot of what comes out of Bill's mouth gets DEEP.

bwiese
06-26-2005, 7:38 PM
Originally posted by Mike Searson:
Alot of what comes out of Bill's mouth gets DEEP.

Back to your million-dollar pension, Mike... earned, in part, by checking if folks reg'd their AWs, and if (in 2007) they have one round of unmarked ammo in their car (SB357) they'll be arrested.

You swore to do that, remember? Must be comforting to be part of 'the system'.



Bill W.
San Jose

Mike Searson
06-26-2005, 7:59 PM
What million dollar pension is that, Bill?


What swearing did I do, Bill?
You know so much, tell me please.

The only oath I ever took was to become a US Marine. Marines don't check for assault weapon registrations.

I'm not a cop, if that's what you're worried about (although I'm sure you think I'm some DOJ Plant or whatever it is you get so alarmed with when someone disagrees with you).

Also tell me about all the anti-second amendment stuff you see me post. I can think of several times in the past when I've defended you against some new guy on here...and I know I've often told you that I've always found your posts informative and intelligent.

Quite a few times I've wondered why you weren't a lawyer because you do know your stuff when it comes to California gun laws.

This time, however, I think your flat out wrong.
Take it personal if you want.

Have you ever been in a gunfight, Bill?

Ever been shot or even shot at?

Ever had to fire at someone while being fired upon?

Well those are my life experiences...that's what I talk about best. Say what you will, but there is a difference between engaging paper targets and engaging a human target who's running, dodging and shooting back.

My best friends, closest family members and sworn blood brothers wear badges...some in California, some in other states. You can talk all you want about them, call them stupid, compare them to nazis, etc...but when the fit hits the shan...who are you going to call?

If your child is abducted is your lawfully registered AR15 going to bring him back?

When there's a car accident and you're lying in a ditch somewhere...is your Colt Python going to be first on the scene to pull you out?

Are there some cops who are *******s?
Definitely...there are *******s in every profession.

Work constructively to change the laws if you don't like them. Keep going down this line and you'll get what you deserve.

Trader Jack
06-26-2005, 10:37 PM
Bill; Now you know why some marines are refered to as "Jar Heads"

Mike Searson
06-26-2005, 10:41 PM
and now we know why Jack's last name is Off.

dwtt
06-26-2005, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Trempel:
The department keeps the weapon.
Most LEOs are also affected by infingements on 2A rights, both as recreational shooters AND as professionals.

No, law enforcemnt officers are not affected by infringements on the 2nd amendment as we have it here in CA. The laws that take away our 2nd amendment rights have exemptions for LEO.

MaceWindu
06-26-2005, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Trader Jack:
Bill; Now you know why some marines are refered to as "Jar Heads"

Gents,

I don't have a dawg in this fight, more so a neutral observer.

But please, PLEASE do not compare LEO's (no offense to LEO's out there) to Marines. I have had the honor.....HONOR....of personally training some US Marines in CQC techniques at my martial art studio. They are without a doubt some of the finest young men I have ever met.

Lastly, after what they are sacrificing in the Sandbox right now, none of us are in a position to insult them....NONE of us.

MaceWindu

imported_11Z50
06-26-2005, 11:10 PM
Yo! What a lively exchange! And I thought things were getting dead here! I can't help myself. I gotta get in on this one.....

Firstly, I share some feelings on both sides here. As most of you know I am a military retiree, but I was a cop from '79-86. I am now a PI and I work for the defense from time to time. Do cops violate civil rights? F'in aye skippy. Do cops break the law...? Oh yes. Do cops have an elitist and arrogant attitude? Damn right. I know, I was one.

Secondly, Cops do not deserve nor are they justified in owning weapons that those they protect cannot. No exceptions. If it 'aint issued, they don't get it. Period.

Thirdly, Mike, I hear you talking about the getting shot at thing, but it has little relevance. Bweise is a scholar, and although condescending at times, he is usually right. Just because guys like you and I have been shot at, and shot back means little in this argument.

Semper fi.

Mike Searson
06-26-2005, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by 11Z50:
Yo! What a lively exchange! And I thought things were getting dead here! I can't help myself. I gotta get in on this one.....

Firstly, I share some feelings on both sides here. As most of you know I am a military retiree, but I was a cop from '79-86. I am now a PI and I work for the defense from time to time. Do cops violate civil rights? F'in aye skippy. Do cops break the law...? Oh yes. Do cops have an elitist and arrogant attitude? Damn right. I know, I was one.

Secondly, Cops do not deserve nor are they justified in owning weapons that those they protect cannot. No exceptions. If it 'aint issued, they don't get it. Period.

Thirdly, Mike, I hear you talking about the getting shot at thing, but it has little relevance. Bweise is a scholar, and although condescending at times, he is usually right. Just because guys like you and I have been shot at, and shot back means little in this argument.

Semper fi.

I had genuine respect for Bill and have often referred others to his posts for advice. I just don't agree with his comparing cops to Nazis or his statement about low IQ scores.


The getting shot at thing has direct relevance to people discussing "shooting ability". The street is not like an indoor range.

Never once did I say police were entitled to special weapons or excused from any laws.

I just said, don't blame them for the mess of what passes for laws that get passed out here.
We could play that game and blame all California gun owners for not doing their part to stop these insane laws.

Trader Jack is just a waste of flesh.

imported_11Z50
06-26-2005, 11:37 PM
"The getting shot at thing has direct relevance to people discussing "shooting ability". The street is not like an indoor range."

And, the experiences you had in combat are nothing like being a cop. Cops do not train to be o311's in the USMC. There is little or no correlation between a cop and a soldier. The experience you and I have had in surviving infantry combat has nothing to do with "shooting ability" of civilians. A guy that can bust 25 every time at the trap range wouldn't last 5 minutes in a firefight. But so what? He never said he was a Marine, just a trap shooter.

kalibear
06-26-2005, 11:43 PM
I respect and owe a debt of gratitude to the men in uniform who serve and protect us (both police and military). As to the topic in question, it has been answered so this thread is locked