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View Full Version : AB 962: A Tax Protest


bulgron
10-13-2009, 11:52 AM
Yesterday I said on this board that in response to AB 962 I intended to withhold as much sales tax revenue from the state of California as I could by purchasing all discretionary items out of state. I figure this is easy to do, because if AB 962 goes into effect (in 2011) I'll be in the habit of driving to Nevada to buy my ammo anyway. Given that, I might as well wait for my Nevada trips to buy clothing, consumer electronics, books, etc. & etc. It just takes a little planning ahead.

Over the course of that thread, a number of people, including Bill Weiss, mentioned California's use tax and how I have to pay California the difference in sales tax between what I paid on purchases made out of state and what I would have had to pay if I bought that same item in state.

That gave me something to think about. I'd hate to have anyone call me a tax cheat. Besides, my holding off on discretionary purchases until I'm out of California isn't about saving money; it's about protesting California's never-ceasing attempts to curtail my freedoms.

So now what I'm thinking/wondering is if there's a way to just give Nevada the same money in sales taxes as if I were to buy that pair of pants or that backpack inside of California. My objective is for the sales tax difference between CA and Nevada to be zero when I purchase stuff in Nevada.

Could I get a friendly politician in Nevada to introduce a bill there that allows California residents traveling in Nevada to VOLUNTARILY pay to Nevada the California-equivalent in sales tax when purchasing items in that state?

What I have in mind is that I walk up to the cash register, declare myself to be a Californian, and ask the sales clerk to ring up California sales tax (which is guaranteed to be higher than Nevada sales tax). Or, if that's too cumbersome, be able to get a form that I fill out detailing my purchases in the state, the sales tax that I paid to Nevada, the amount I owe to California, and then send that amount to Nevada so that I don't have to send it to Sacramento.

Would people be willing to join me in a petition to the state of Nevada (or Arizona...) asking them to implement some kind of "deny California our sales tax" program? If enough signed that petition, and if a border state were to implement a program like that, I wonder if we couldn't get Sacramento's attention.

No doubt there are people around here who will think this is a horrible idea because they're too cheap to pay the full California sales tax. But like I said, this isn't about me saving money. No, this is about me denying California as much economic activity and tax revenues as I personally can deny them -- short of moving out of state altogether.

And if California doesn't like it, they can just damn-well rescind AB 962.

yellowfin
10-13-2009, 11:54 AM
It's too bad you can't make out the check for an NFA tax stamp to Nevada for that purpose or somehow claim it as a tax credit.

kegs
10-13-2009, 11:56 AM
Good idea, except that if this starts happening widespread in CA, CA will enforce the "use" tax that's technically supposed to be collected on all items purchased out of state, but "used" in CA.

As the law is written now, we're supposed to be paying this already (e.g. you buy a TV online out-of-state with no sales tax, but have it in CA, you're supposed to write CA a check).

Lame, either way you look at it.

Blackhawk556
10-13-2009, 12:10 PM
Good idea, except that if this starts happening widespread in CA, CA will enforce the "use" tax that's technically supposed to be collected on all items purchased out of state, but "used" in CA.

As the law is written now, we're supposed to be paying this already (e.g. you buy a TV online out-of-state with no sales tax, but have it in CA, you're supposed to write CA a check).

Lame, either way you look at it.

I already do this :rolleyes:

triaged
10-13-2009, 2:46 PM
So we have the choice of having our 2nd or 5th amendment rights violated. What a fun choice to have.

wildhawker
10-13-2009, 2:50 PM
There are multiple vehicles to kill AB962 in motion. Ideas like this are distracting from the real work that can be productive for the cause.

Maltese Falcon
10-13-2009, 2:56 PM
I will increase my exemptions (Less tax withheld) and greatly increase my 401K contribution to bring down my taxable gross... sort of like using the state's money to fund my retirement kitty....and all perfectly legal.

I will, however, have less "livable", to use money, at my disposal....

bodger
10-13-2009, 3:03 PM
Yesterday I said on this board that in response to AB 962 I intended to withhold as much sales tax revenue from the state of California as I could by purchasing all discretionary items out of state. I figure this is easy to do, because if AB 962 goes into effect (in 2011) I'll be in the habit of driving to Nevada to buy my ammo anyway. Given that, I might as well wait for my Nevada trips to buy clothing, consumer electronics, books, etc. & etc. It just takes a little planning ahead.

Over the course of that thread, a number of people, including Bill Weiss, mentioned California's use tax and how I have to pay California the difference in sales tax between what I paid on purchases made out of state and what I would have had to pay if I bought that same item in state.

That gave me something to think about. I'd hate to have anyone call me a tax cheat. Besides, my holding off on discretionary purchases until I'm out of California isn't about saving money; it's about protesting California's never-ceasing attempts to curtail my freedoms.

So now what I'm thinking/wondering is if there's a way to just give Nevada the same money in sales taxes as if I were to buy that pair of pants or that backpack inside of California. My objective is for the sales tax difference between CA and Nevada to be zero when I purchase stuff in Nevada.

Could I get a friendly politician in Nevada to introduce a bill there that allows California residents traveling in Nevada to VOLUNTARILY pay to Nevada the California-equivalent in sales tax when purchasing items in that state?

What I have in mind is that I walk up to the cash register, declare myself to be a Californian, and ask the sales clerk to ring up California sales tax (which is guaranteed to be higher than Nevada sales tax). Or, if that's too cumbersome, be able to get a form that I fill out detailing my purchases in the state, the sales tax that I paid to Nevada, the amount I owe to California, and then send that amount to Nevada so that I don't have to send it to Sacramento.

Would people be willing to join me in a petition to the state of Nevada (or Arizona...) asking them to implement some kind of "deny California our sales tax" program? If enough signed that petition, and if a border state were to implement a program like that, I wonder if we couldn't get Sacramento's attention.

No doubt there are people around here who will think this is a horrible idea because they're too cheap to pay the full California sales tax. But like I said, this isn't about me saving money. No, this is about me denying California as much economic activity and tax revenues as I personally can deny them -- short of moving out of state altogether.

And if California doesn't like it, they can just damn-well rescind AB 962.

I like the idea or any like it that results in starving Sac out of tax dollars. They clearly waste them anyway, paying the likes of DeLeon.

Hopefully AB962 will get tossed out for reasons other than loss of tax revenue, and well before we ever have to give one fingerprint.

But those wheels are known to turn slow.

Ike Arumba
10-13-2009, 3:05 PM
I will increase my exemptions (Less tax withheld) and greatly increase my 401K contribution to bring down my taxable gross... sort of like using the state's money to fund my retirement kitty....and all perfectly legal. ....

You could maximize your 401(k) contributions, and then move to a low-tax state when you retire. You could even pull the whole amount out and have it taxed while living in the low-tax state, then move back to California later, if you like. This process does, however, take a while.

Dirtbiker
10-13-2009, 3:07 PM
Does anyone here think that Ca has the manpower or resources to actually collect on use tax? :rolleyes:

Sabot
10-13-2009, 6:20 PM
I try to shop by internet as much as possible. My own personal way of sticking it to Sacramento.

Sunwolf
10-13-2009, 6:27 PM
I will buy as much as possible out of State until I can find the werewithal to move.

Sinestr
10-13-2009, 7:05 PM
How does Cali know if I went to Nevada and purchased a pair of pants. I've purchased cloths at Scheels, now should I be ready to get a use tax bill in the mail from Cali? Hasn't happend yet, it would be almost impossible to track ftf purchases in another state.

bulgron
10-13-2009, 7:10 PM
How does Cali know if I went to Nevada and purchased a pair of pants. I've purchased cloths at Scheels, now should I be ready to get a use tax bill in the mail from Cali? Hasn't happend yet, it would be almost impossible to track ftf purchases in another state.

Credit card purchases can be tracked if CA wanted to go there. At the very least, use cash.

Merle
10-13-2009, 7:12 PM
CA doesn't know if you purchase goods out of state, and it doesn't send you a bill. You're supposed to 'do the right thing' and fill out the paperwork in April and send in the tax which was supposed to be collected.

steve weikel
10-13-2009, 7:16 PM
CA doesn't know if you purchase goods out of state, and it doesn't send you a bill. You're supposed to 'do the right thing' and fill out the paperwork in April and send in the tax which was supposed to be collected.

Kinda like they are supposed to uphold the constitiution. Not misinterprit or
rewrite it.

Sinestr
10-13-2009, 7:18 PM
CA doesn't know if you purchase goods out of state, and it doesn't send you a bill. You're supposed to 'do the right thing' and fill out the paperwork in April and send in the tax which was supposed to be collected.

:D I'll get right on it.

torsf
10-13-2009, 7:18 PM
Kinda like they are supposed to uphold the constitiution. Not misinterprit or
rewrite it.

Oh snap

TaxAnnihilator
10-13-2009, 7:20 PM
We should set up an ammo co-op at the state line!

demnogis
10-13-2009, 7:56 PM
Pay cash for most anything you need.

There are many, many vendors and people out there willing to do private-party sales of used or nearly 100%-new items for cash.

The best part? No receipts.

I buy most what I need besides gas and food through private party sales. Everything else is bought out of state for cash. It pays (saves) to have friends and relatives only a couple hundred miles away.

gazzavc
10-13-2009, 8:20 PM
As the law is written now, we're supposed to be paying this already (e.g. you buy a TV online out-of-state with no sales tax, but have it in CA, you're supposed to write CA a check).



Oh Yeah !! I'll get right on that.........


In two weeks !!!!!!!!!

mbrown
10-13-2009, 8:20 PM
FYI, California has recently stepped up its efforts to collect use tax from small businesses. Sales/use tax is collected by the Board of Equalization (a ridiculous name if there ever was one). Many service-related businesses are not required to collect sales tax on the services they offer. Because of this, such businesses have not had to register with the BoE. This has now come to an end. The state is now automatically registering all businesses, except micro-businesses, with the BoE and expecting them to report and pay use tax. My personal take it sales/use tax on top of income tax is immoral. They tax you when you earn it, and then they tax you when you spend it :mad:

TaxAnnihilator
10-13-2009, 8:34 PM
Just wait, the major e-commerce sites are going to start reporting your purchases to CA.

Google hit me up for tax information on my advertising sites. It's only a matter of time.

Oh Yeah !! I'll get right on that.........


In two weeks !!!!!!!!!

Deamer
10-13-2009, 8:35 PM
How is that enforced exactly? You pay cash for something out of state, and there is no way they can pin it to you.

They will close the border and and set up a US Customs style checkpoint. You will have to declare and pay the tax as you come in. Of course if you are an illegal alien you don't have to declare anything and they sign you up for social services as soon as you cross the border into Ca.

Scratch705
10-13-2009, 9:12 PM
everyone forgets, no taxes on gifts. only the giver of gift (if gift is over $12,000) has to pay. you as receiver don't

i can't help it if my friend and family in las vegas wants to gift me ammo, big screen tv, clothes, non-perishable foods, and other such items. they are just that giving.

triaged
10-13-2009, 9:13 PM
How does Cali know if I went to Nevada and purchased a pair of pants...They ask you to incriminate yourself.

Sunwolf
10-14-2009, 2:17 AM
and the horse they rode in on.Not going to declare anything.

wellerjohn
10-14-2009, 2:24 AM
Good luck tracking it.