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.454
10-12-2009, 10:57 PM
All right, so far Calgunners got together to bend receivers and build AK's, AR's and so on.
But what if we start organizing ammo reloading clinics to teach fellow Calgunners how to make their own ammo? It is easy and inexpensive. In fact, starting to reload is possible with an investment of less than $100 and it can be done in your living room.

What better slap in the face to the douches who passed AB 962 other than having thousands and thousands of California gun owners not only reloading millions of UNTRACEABLE rounds of ammo, but also depriving the state of Kommiefornia of 100's of thousands of dollars of sales tax revenue?

UPDATE:

If interested to attend please vote on this poll then go to "Ammo And Reloading" section of the CG Forums and look for the thread opened for your geographical area. Please write a reply and mention if you are interested in attending of teaching.

One more thing: the whole idea for these introduction to reloading clinics is to show people how easy and fun it is to reload. You don't need to buy your own reloading equipment prior to attending such a clinic; the whole idea is to show you how it's done, to let you try to do it yourself on our equipment and if you think you can do it, then you can go ahead and order your own equipment whatever brand and model you want.

ivanimal
10-12-2009, 10:59 PM
I have an open offer to anyone that will travel to the Concord area for lessons.

Lone_Gunman
10-12-2009, 11:01 PM
I would love to attend such a clinic in the Sacramento area.

wildhawker
10-12-2009, 11:02 PM
Just be careful with the primers, Ivan. I *really* don't want to haul all this **** downstairs.

TRICKSTER
10-12-2009, 11:07 PM
How about Calguns Cabelas bus trips. Reno for N.CA and Vegas for S.CA. Set it up a few months in advance and see if Cabelas will stock accordingly. We could do the same thing for the Reno and Vegas gun shows. Buy all the reloading supplies or ammo out of state. Not only untraceable, but also untaxed.

.454
10-12-2009, 11:08 PM
We need to find volunteers willing to teach in every County then set a calendar. I'm not good at organizing stuff like this, maybe some of the guys who did the AK build clinics can help explain how it is done?

.454
10-12-2009, 11:12 PM
How about Calguns Cabelas bus trips. Reno for N.CA and Vegas for S.CA. Set it up a few months in advance and see if Cabelas will stock accordingly. We could do the same thing for the Reno and Vegas gun shows. Buy all the reloading supplies or ammo out of state. Not only untraceable, but also untaxed.

Thanks for the idea but I believe it would be better if you could you can start your own thread - if you think it's better than teaching gun owners how NOT to depend on buying ammo from retailers that may or may not stock all ammo calibers all the time.

TRICKSTER
10-12-2009, 11:20 PM
It wasn't my intention to tell people not to reload, even those who reload need to purchase supplies. Why give this anti gun state the tax revenue. The reloading clinic is a great idea, just thought that having a group trip to purchase supplies would be fun.

dchang0
10-12-2009, 11:25 PM
Reloading clinics would be great!

Here's another idea: set up local reloading shops/clubs where people could go in and reload without having to buy all the gear for themselves. Sort of like renting out time in a machine shop. I've got my own press, etc., but I never spent the bucks on the electric case tumbler, etc. It would be cool to be able to rent some time at a reloading shop where I could have access to the really time-saving tools.

Plus, those who couldn't afford the multi-stage presses could have access to one.

Gio
10-12-2009, 11:33 PM
There are people out there that do that, just gotta look around and find them ;)

As a matter of fact some local Rifle Clubs offer this kind of things for their members. Set up a bunch of presses and have stuff ready for them to learn how to load their own, and guide them as well. Turns out to be a good deal for the $50 or so it cost to join some of these clubs.

-Gio

Palimino Stripe
10-12-2009, 11:38 PM
I've been DYING to learn how to reload for YEARS now. I never quite got around to it because It seems a little daunting to start- but I hear once you get the hang of it (i.e. you know what you're doing) it's easy & fun...

I would attend one (if it was nearby)!

-Palimino

Carnivore
10-12-2009, 11:41 PM
Fantastic idea. I have been saving brass an was looking in to getting the gear to do it. Just need the basics from those in the know an what is good equipment to look for over what crap looks like.

ivanimal
10-12-2009, 11:47 PM
Just be careful with the primers, Ivan. I *really* don't want to haul all this **** downstairs.

LMBBAO!:D

Gio
10-12-2009, 11:50 PM
Just be careful with the primers, Ivan. I *really* don't want to haul all this **** downstairs.

LMBBAO!:D

The pics you posted of your garage door and area were not very funny :o I am glad the 650's operate a little bit different then the 550's

-Gio

.454
10-13-2009, 6:48 AM
Fantastic idea. I have been saving brass an was looking in to getting the gear to do it. Just need the basics from those in the know an what is good equipment to look for over what crap looks like.

There is no such thing as "crap equipment". Believe it or not, all reloading gear is made here in the USA not in Mexico or China. You can reload exactly the same quality ammo with the most inexpensive Lee press and dies that you can do with the most expensive Dillon. A Lee progressive will crank out the finished ammo at exactly the same speed a Dillon does: 1 pull of the lever = 1 finished round. The difference between the two is mostly convenience, class and prestige: it's basically like driving a Mercedes SLK or a Chevy Malibu. If you can afford the Mercedes, good for you. If you don't, the Chevy is great reliable transportation. It's a much better option than walking (or being thumbprinted at the store when buying a box of ammo for that matter).
What I'm trying to say is not to get discouraged by the prices if you think of jumping in the reloading bandwagon because you have lots of options to fit your budget. You can start with with an initial investment of less than $100 for a hand press, a scale and a set of dies if that's all you can afford. If later on you want more speed and convenience, all you need is only to buy a more sophisticated press.
The whole idea behind the Calguns reloading clinics is to show people how simple, inexpensive and fun it is to reload and dissipate the preconceived idea that making your own ammo is some kind of black magic woodoo or that you can't do it if you live in an apartment.

Paratus et Vigilans
10-13-2009, 7:26 AM
The thing about reloading is that it's just not something everyone who shoots is going to be willing to learn to do, and to do safely. It's not hard, but it's very detail oriented, and requires a certain amount of concentration, organization and dedication to getting it right. Getting it wrong makes for a very bad day. Also, it's time-intensive. You have to make time to do it. You have to take the time to prepare the brass properly. You have to inspect every round you pop out to make sure that you don't have some kind of problem with it, like the primer got in backwards, or crooked, or not at all, or that the brass has a crack or is just too tired for one more loading, and that you didn't get distracted and double-charge the round, and, and, and . . .

I've got a Dillon XL 650, and all the stuff needed to reload for every rifle and pistol caliber I shoot. I love it. But, there are times that I feel like going shooting but have not had the time to do the loading and am not in the mood to set up and load. So I don't get to go shooting. That's just how it goes. However, that's what it's like when you are your own source of ammo. So, I say again . . . it's not for everyone who shoots.

n2k
10-13-2009, 7:31 AM
I'm in. Let's do this.

Flintlock Tom
10-13-2009, 8:03 AM
I agree, this is an excellent idea. I especially like the look of awe I get when I tell a new shooter that I load my own ammunition.
Kind of like being a 54th level dungeon master, or something, not that I ever...um.

Requiem
10-13-2009, 8:11 AM
I have an open offer to anyone that will travel to the Concord area for lessons.

I'd be glad to help run the class/clinic although I'm kind of a beginner my self. Plus my Rock chucker reloading setup is on a B&D benchmate so it's easily portable.

Hopi
10-13-2009, 8:13 AM
Great thread .454!

G-Man WC
10-13-2009, 8:20 AM
I'm willing to throw in the towel and get started. I've got most of what I need now. Just needed the push. Looks like AB962 was it. -g

J.A.G.
10-13-2009, 8:22 AM
I've looked into reloading for a while... but living in an apt and not having much income has been a problem. If someone were to put on one such clinic, I would definitely attend.

Phil3
10-13-2009, 8:27 AM
I went to a reloading class at J&R Sports in Livermore, CA, and it was very helpful for me. $40, but very much worth it. I feel confident enough now to buy what I need and do it myself.

GunOwner
10-13-2009, 8:40 AM
Great idea - I would attend a clinic in Orange County.

secretasianman
10-13-2009, 8:50 AM
I would attend a reloading clinic in the Sacramento area! There goes reloading prices!!! HAHA!

smokey530
10-13-2009, 9:09 AM
I would also attend a clinic in sacramento. I think this a great idea.

lbdrummer3
10-13-2009, 9:16 AM
I'd be willing to teach in the Lakewood/Long Beach area on either a Dillon 550 or Rockchucker. You buy the gear and components and I'll go to your house and show you how to use it. PM me if interested.

shadowofnight
10-13-2009, 9:29 AM
I have been reloading since I was 12 years old, it has been one of my non-stop hobbies to feed my shooting addiction. I have taught a whole lot of people from start to finish, and find where most people get nervous in the operation is die changeouts/adjustments.

Anybody can use a digital scale easily and use a loading tray to observe a 50 case group to see that they all have the exact same powder charge ( None missing or double ) ....primers are easy to seat and get right.....trimming is easy...etc. It seems in my teaching others, the changing/adjusting of the dies is where most have issues.

I found an easy way to get those people to start reloading safely and producing a good product....but have minimal involvment with the adjustment aspect of reloading. When we went to buy the equipment, I had them pick up a Redding T-7 press...and depending on how many different calibers they had to load for...a spare turret or 2. They could have 3 bottleneck or 2 straightwall rifle or pistol calibers per turret...saving a lot of adjustments and making caliber changes really easy.

In some instances, I would correctly adjust their dies....and they wouldnt have to touch them again ( With the stipulation they HAD to trim the cases to this particular length on straightwall cases to have the mouth belling and crimping consistent ....and use this bullet as well ....etc) .....making them that much more confident to start reloading.

Most would want to stay away from the progressives...and single stage presses require much more involvment/adjustments....and that T-7 is a monster...doesnt flex whatsoever...produces an awesome reload. Once they realize how easy it is without adjustments ...making caliber changes in an instant ...you would be surprised how many started reloaded who never even considered it before.

I myself use a Redding Ultramag single stage press, but I find the caliber changes part of the fun...as well as I need to change die adjustments constantly for numerous different bullets used....different neck bushings used for different rifles of the same caliber...etc. But some would like to buy 5,000 bullets in bulk....and just make an awesome reload over and over again...for those this worked out really well for them.

.454
10-13-2009, 9:36 AM
I'd be willing to teach in the Lakewood/Long Beach area on either a Dillon 550 or Rockchucker. You buy the gear and components and I'll go to your house and show you how to use it. PM me if interested.

The whole idea is to introduce people to reloading and show them how it's done BEFORE they start buying the equipment.
I believe the three main things making people reluctant to start reloading are:

1. A misconception about how expensive it is to get started.
2. Reloading is some sort of rocket science / black magic art.
3. You need a lot of space to set up and reloading can't be done if you live in an apartment.

This is why I would personally prefer to have people coming to see, learn and try an existing set up under the supervision of the instructor and owner of the equipment. Then, it is up to them to go ahead and make the decision if they want or not to invest in a reloading setup and how much money they want to spend for it.

Another idea: we could also use this initiative as a fund raising method. I read one of the fellow Calgunners paid $40 for attending a reloading clinic somewhere at a shooting range or store. Maybe we could ask the students to make a small donation for CGF after they attend the clinic?

Centurion_D
10-13-2009, 9:39 AM
Damn straight! I'd love to learn all about reloading. I've been looking at some Lee reloading kits and it's not that expensive. Maybe it's time to take the dive! Anyone in the Hayward - Fremont area willing to teach me please let me know. :D

Sig357
10-13-2009, 9:50 AM
I would be interested in attending a clinic. Anywhere between Palm Springs and O.C. I have made reloading equipment a top priority and will start buying equipment soon.

Sig357
10-13-2009, 9:53 AM
There are also good videos on Youtube on reloading for different presses. In person would be best, but youtube has been very helpful. Maybe Calgun members could make vids and post them. Just a suggestion.

lbdrummer3
10-13-2009, 9:55 AM
T

Another idea: we could also use this initiative as a fund raising method. I read one of the fellow Calgunners paid $40 for attending a reloading clinic somewhere at a shooting range or store. Maybe we could ask the students to make a small donation for CGF after they attend the clinic?

This is a great idea!

Rick530
10-13-2009, 10:05 AM
I'm in!!!! Anyone in the Oroville area willing to teach me????

GronHog
10-13-2009, 10:10 AM
The clinic idea is great, this would prove to some of us that we do have the grey matter to do this. With the knowledge from an experienced person to eliminate that feeling of what the heck am I doing.

.454
10-13-2009, 10:33 AM
Maybe we could find places like for example gun clubs or shooting ranges willing to let us put up a little reloading setup in a room and have a clinic there once a month, like they already do for hunter education classes. This will drive more people to their range or club and it will mean more shooters coming to shoot there in the future. If the owners start selling reloading components these reloading clinics may be very profitable for them.

Here is what I am willing to donate to CGF foundation in order to start this Calguns reloading clinic initiative in So Cal:

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9935/pict01638253575.jpg

- 1 single stage RCBS reloading press
- 1 RCBS powder measure
- 1 Lee safety scale
- 1 Lee auto primer
also:
- 1 Lee manual pistol reloading kit for 45ACP / 45Rimmed (can't get a reloading setup any less expensive and smaller than that)

Maybe other Calgunners in the So Cal area can donate smaller stuff like reloading trays, dies, a case trimmer, bullet puller and so on.

If anybody can talk a shooting range or gun club owner into letting us set up this equipment and have the reloading clinics once a month it would be terrific.

Arteel
10-13-2009, 10:33 AM
Looks like there's plently interested in Sacramento. Let's get the ball rolling!

gucci pilot
10-13-2009, 11:01 AM
Yup, I would like to attend one in Sacramento. Who's up for teaching?

.454
10-13-2009, 1:19 PM
Excellent news! We have a space where to start doing the reloading clinic!

I pitched the idea to Dustin at AmmoBros in Cerritos.
He wants to help and promised to offer the space for Calguns ammo reloading clinic free of charge starting in December or January - as soon as they will move in the bigger space vacated by the motorcycle dealership next door.

Anybody else wants to donate their time or reloading accessories for this project?

n2k
10-13-2009, 1:47 PM
I would be more then happy to create and up keep lists for the event....actually we can use the same format that was used for the distribution of the flyers.

Will AmmoBros be willing to offer clinic discounts on reloading equipment?

One stop shopping for the whole group:D

.454
10-13-2009, 2:03 PM
I would be more then happy to create and up keep lists for the event....actually we can use the same format that was used for the distribution of the flyers.

Will AmmoBros be willing to offer clinic discounts on reloading equipment?

One stop shopping for the whole group:D

I suppose they could offer something like a Calguns special deal - buy a reloading kit and get 100 pcs of once fired brass free. Or maybe a coupon for future purchases. At least that's what I would do to encourage people to come back and buy reloading components from me.

5hundo
10-13-2009, 2:43 PM
Here's an idea:

We all have computers... (obviously)

What about having a reloading "Webinar"? Find someone with a webcam who would be willing to host one and have people log into it.

You could learn to reload from the comfort of your own home.

Chromedragon
10-13-2009, 2:47 PM
I think i have a spare cam. Ill confirm that but if so pm me if you are a reloader willing to do a webcast of some type we can work it out together and then post the details here. PM if you are interested.

5hundo
10-13-2009, 2:55 PM
I think i have a spare cam. Ill confirm that but if so pm me if you are a reloader willing to do a webcast of some type we can work it out together and then post the details here. PM if you are interested.

Yeah, I am...

...and I'd be glad to.

I think I would be able to instruct a good class for people with limited space issues. Anyone who lives in an apartment might benefit from a class like that. I hear a lot of people say things like "I would reload but I don't have the space" but you don't have to have much space, necessarily...

I'd like to do something like that...

n2k
10-13-2009, 3:02 PM
That is a nice idea to have a video posted online.

I would also appreciate the hands on aspect of the clinic.

It's always great to meet Calguners in person.

gn3hz3ku1*
10-13-2009, 3:16 PM
oh man ammobros here i come

5hundo
10-13-2009, 3:22 PM
That is a nice idea to have a video posted online.

Well, in the meantime, "Ammosmith" on youtube is a good place to start. He's a very talented reloader and bullet caster. He even has a DVD available for learning how to cast bullets...

http://www.youtube.com/user/ammosmith#p/c/B69AED8B1719AA54/0/SH_bgO2lpbI

artherd
10-13-2009, 3:25 PM
While a good idea in general - as a response to AB962 it sucks. Save your gas money and donate it to NRA and CGF, we're gonna get the stupid law overturned.

If you want to learn to reload that's awesome, but we're not giving up and neither should you.

lbdrummer3
10-13-2009, 3:27 PM
Excellent news! We have a space where to start doing the reloading clinic!

I pitched the idea to Dustin at AmmoBros in Cerritos.
He wants to help and promised to offer the space for Calguns ammo reloading clinic free of charge starting in December or January - as soon as they will move in the bigger space vacated by the motorcycle dealership next door.

Anybody else wants to donate their time or reloading accessories for this project?

That's awesome news! Way to go .454 and Dustin!

yakmon
10-13-2009, 3:28 PM
I'm in Chico, but would go to Sac for a reloading clinic, i have everything i need to reload, except primer and powders.

.454
10-13-2009, 3:29 PM
Here's an idea:

We all have computers... (obviously)

What about having a reloading "Webinar"? Find someone with a webcam who would be willing to host one and have people log into it.

You could learn to reload from the comfort of your own home.

There are plenty of youtube videos teaching reloading already. However, I believe nothing can replace the "hands on" experience a newbie can have by attending an ammo reloading clinic. Imagine how somebody who doesn't know anything about reloading can measure the powder, resize and prime the brass, then put the bullet on top with his own two hands. Not mentioning the satisfaction of leaving from the clinic with a few rounds of ammo he reloaded himself in his pocket.

wildog8812
10-13-2009, 3:30 PM
I live in Fresno but I would travel pretty much anywhere in the Central Valley. I don't mind learning online, I have spent the last few month wanting to get into it but I do not know what I need and what is unnecessary. Some of these kits seem like a lot of stuff that helps but you don't really need. I am on a budget, I can spare a little here and there. If someone wanted to give some good advice on how to get into it cheap, that way I could get better stuff later down the line, I would attend for sure.

n2k
10-13-2009, 3:32 PM
While a good idea in general - as a response to AB962 it sucks. Save your gas money and donate it to NRA and CGF, we're gonna get the stupid law overturned.

If you want to learn to reload that's awesome, but we're not giving up and neither should you.

Give Up..NEVER! I'm here for the long haul.

Donate...As much and as often as I can.

A clinic to teach others how to reload and be self sufficient......I'm in.

GJC
10-13-2009, 3:39 PM
I would love to learn :D I'm down to attend one in San Diego.

redbull addict
10-13-2009, 4:07 PM
I've been considering looking into reloading. I know nothing at this point. I'll start to look at videos on youtube but if anyone has any links for information that they would be willing to share please let me know.

thanks!

.454
10-13-2009, 4:46 PM
I've been considering looking into reloading. I know nothing at this point. I'll start to look at videos on youtube but if anyone has any links for information that they would be willing to share please let me know.

thanks!

Here is a video tutorial in 5 parts: How To Reload (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304284)

Hank Zudd
10-13-2009, 5:00 PM
good luck with that project; I moved from Livermore 5 years ago back to Texas & never looked back (from here originally)

But don't think you can just buy everything you need in a single trip; even with the opening up of the supply lines, powder & primers are still hard to find sometimes. Bullets & brass are easier, depends on what you want.

If I was still there, I'd get a PO box just across the line & have stuff shipped there; mail order the sh$t outta stuff & you'll have better luck stocking up, even with hazmat shipping fees.

again, good luck.

BTW-having my own brass, I just loaded 500 rounds of 223-55gr FMJ for .17 cents each (23-24gr H335)

glbtrottr
10-13-2009, 5:10 PM
up for one in orange county.

Now - who is organizing a few?

.454
10-13-2009, 5:16 PM
up for one in orange county.

Now - who is organizing a few?

I would say the people from OC and LA who want to attend could go to the Ammobros location starting Dec. or Jan. They are located in Cerritos and that's fairly close to OC

mmartin
10-13-2009, 5:31 PM
We need to find volunteers willing to teach in every County then set a calendar. I'm not good at organizing stuff like this, maybe some of the guys who did the AK build clinics can help explain how it is done?

my hubby reloads everything, has forEVer. for years loaded all his competition and training rounds.

he'd be willing to teach (so. cal).
megan

mmartin
10-13-2009, 5:40 PM
my hubby reloads everything, has forEVer. for years loaded all his competition and training rounds.

he'd be willing to teach (so. cal).
megan

BTW, he's done lots of firearm-skills teaching, so he's got teaching skills as well.
megan

1JimMarch
10-13-2009, 5:44 PM
I assume everybody here is familiar with the world's cheapest reloader, the Lee Classic Loader?

If not:

Nwr0FyJOk-4

This is also known as the "whack a mole special" :).

The problem with this thing is, you really need to weigh a couple of test powder charges from the included dipper and the powder type you've picked - with a really good scale.

A "reloading clinic" based on this thing could include test-weighing of people's powder throws with the included dipper.

One reputable source has these for $19 a pop:

http://www.factorysales.com/html/xcart/catalog/dies-p4.html#LeeLoader

They work great for revolvers and bolt-action rifles, not so good for semis.

.454
10-13-2009, 5:46 PM
my hubby reloads everything, has forEVer. for years loaded all his competition and training rounds.

he'd be willing to teach (so. cal).
megan

Thank you very much, I'll keep in mind. I know 7X57 also reloads, I'm sure he'll volunteer too once or twice a year ;)


For those of you who are apartment dwellers: here is a nice and inexpensive setup you can use to reload in the living room on your coffee table (pictures from The Firing Line (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3118781&postcount=6))

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Guns/PortableReloadingoutfit1024.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Guns/IMGP3200.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Guns/IMGP3203.jpg

(I strongly recommend NOT to drink while reloading. Alcohol and ammo remanufacturing can be a dangerous combination)

CSACANNONEER
10-13-2009, 5:48 PM
I have an open offer to anyone that will travel to the Concord area for lessons.

I've made the same offer before and, I'll make it again. But, I just moved. So, for anyone willing to travel to Canyon Country (Agua Dulce) and drive +3 miles up a dirt road, I'll do my best to teach you how to reload anything from muzzleloaders (yep, it's the same concept) to .25acp to 50BMG t0 .410 to 12g and many calibers in between. I can also teach what I know about casting bullets including roundballs.

NSR500
10-13-2009, 5:54 PM
Reloading clinics would be great!

Here's another idea: set up local reloading shops/clubs where people could go in and reload without having to buy all the gear for themselves. Sort of like renting out time in a machine shop. I've got my own press, etc., but I never spent the bucks on the electric case tumbler, etc. It would be cool to be able to rent some time at a reloading shop where I could have access to the really time-saving tools.

Plus, those who couldn't afford the multi-stage presses could have access to one.

What are the legalities around a situation like this? For example, I'm not always in California so would it be legal if someone wanted to rent my gear while I'm gone?

CSACANNONEER
10-13-2009, 6:27 PM
What are the legalities around a situation like this? For example, I'm not always in California so would it be legal if someone wanted to rent my gear while I'm gone?

Why not?

xm177
10-13-2009, 7:12 PM
Awesome idea! Count me in for the Ammo Bros clinic. Been wanting to learn how to reload for some time now.

dwh100
10-13-2009, 7:31 PM
Reloading clinics would be great!

I'd be willing to teach in the Lakewood/Long Beach area on either a Dillon 550 or Rockchucker. You buy the gear and components and I'll go to your house and show you how to use it. PM me if interested.
PM sent!

Nessal
10-13-2009, 9:22 PM
Great idea. I already load but would like to meet other loaders and maybe get some tips and try out different brands of reloading equipment.

mtsul
10-13-2009, 9:33 PM
Great idea - I would attend a clinic in riverside or corona I would even drive an hour (or maybe more to learn) Please let me know

mmartin
10-13-2009, 11:42 PM
talked to the hubby, he says he'll check with his contacts over at dillon and see if we can get a discount or a deal on reloading equipment if we have a clinic.

do we have a plan yet?
megan

mtsul
10-14-2009, 12:03 AM
Hey mmartin (megan) could I meet up with your husband at some point to learn?

armandolo
10-14-2009, 12:19 AM
Man, I have been wanting to reload for some time but finally gave up cause there is no one available who will show me from start to finish. A Calguns clinic is a great idea.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 12:35 AM
Hey mmartin (megan) could I meet up with your husband at some point to learn?

yep. drop me a pm, we're in oceanside (san diego).
megan

Meplat
10-14-2009, 2:32 AM
I have a dillon and a Lee progressive mounted a few feet apart on the same bench. In my opinion they both work fine, but the Lee needs an operator that is mechanically inclined and something of a tinker. The Dillon is more idiot proof, but no loading equipment is truly idiot proof.

I do not recommend anyone starting with a progressive. Start with the simplest slowest most basic equipment and work your way up. Then you will truly understand what you are doing. :D




There is no such thing as "crap equipment". Believe it or not, all reloading gear is made here in the USA not in Mexico or China. You can reload exactly the same quality ammo with the most inexpensive Lee press and dies that you can do with the most expensive Dillon. A Lee progressive will crank out the finished ammo at exactly the same speed a Dillon does: 1 pull of the lever = 1 finished round. The difference between the two is mostly convenience, class and prestige: it's basically like driving a Mercedes SLK or a Chevy Malibu. If you can afford the Mercedes, good for you. If you don't, the Chevy is great reliable transportation. It's a much better option than walking (or being thumbprinted at the store when buying a box of ammo for that matter).
What I'm trying to say is not to get discouraged by the prices if you think of jumping in the reloading bandwagon because you have lots of options to fit your budget. You can start with with an initial investment of less than $100 for a hand press, a scale and a set of dies if that's all you can afford. If later on you want more speed and convenience, all you need is only to buy a more sophisticated press.
The whole idea behind the Calguns reloading clinics is to show people how simple, inexpensive and fun it is to reload and dissipate the preconceived idea that making your own ammo is some kind of black magic woodoo or that you can't do it if you live in an apartment.

draconianruler
10-14-2009, 2:53 AM
I'm all down for teaching people to reload but a clinic may be too much distraction possibly resulting in a double or no charge. Best to keep it small to avoid mistakes. JMHO.

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 4:53 AM
Here's an idea:

We all have computers... (obviously)

What about having a reloading "Webinar"? Find someone with a webcam who would be willing to host one and have people log into it.

You could learn to reload from the comfort of your own home.

How would you touch the press and feel what's happening?
This is sorta like learning about sex by watching porn.

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 4:55 AM
The biggest problem I see with reloading clinics is that you really need to do them one-on-one.
Each person needs to be standing in front of the press.
You can't do that as a group.

That's why I recommend and give private lessons.

dustoff31
10-14-2009, 5:58 AM
Excellent news! We have a space where to start doing the reloading clinic!

I pitched the idea to Dustin at AmmoBros in Cerritos.
He wants to help and promised to offer the space for Calguns ammo reloading clinic free of charge starting in December or January - as soon as they will move in the bigger space vacated by the motorcycle dealership next door.

Anybody else wants to donate their time or reloading accessories for this project?


I'm an NRA certified reloading instructor. I'll help out in So Cal (for free). Just need as much advance notice as possible to make sure I can be in CA. Unfortunately, I work a lot of weekends, so most of my time in CA is during the week.

dustoff31
10-14-2009, 6:01 AM
The biggest problem I see with reloading clinics is that you really need to do them one-on-one.
Each person needs to be standing in front of the press.
You can't do that as a group.

That's why I recommend and give private lessons.


Randall makes an excellent point.

The NRA prescribes a 5:1 student to instructor ratio. With each student having their own press and accessories.

.454
10-14-2009, 6:59 AM
I'm an NRA certified reloading instructor. I'll help out in So Cal (for free). Just need as much advance notice as possible to make sure I can be in CA. Unfortunately, I work a lot of weekends, so most of my time in CA is during the week.


Thank you for your generous offer, I will keep you in mind when the clinic space offered to us by Ammobros becomes available and we can get started.

.454
10-14-2009, 7:24 AM
The biggest problem I see with reloading clinics is that you really need to do them one-on-one.
Each person needs to be standing in front of the press.
You can't do that as a group.

That's why I recommend and give private lessons.

This is why I would not start a reloading clinic with more than 5-6 students per session. With a small class, every student gets his turn to the reloading equipment to perform each step by step operation under the instructor supervision.
If you can help somebody with one-on-one private lessons at your home, that's great. However, most people who reload are reticent to let other people they don't know anything about into their homes.
The solution proposed by another CG member was the student buys the equipment and the instructor goes at the student's home and teaches him. That's not the best idea and I will say again why: most people who may be interested in starting to reload don't want to spend any amount of money investing in reloading equipment if they aren't sure they have the skills and the learning ability to do it. Read this thread from the beginning and you'll see how many Calgunners don't reload just because of that. I know I postponed reloading for years because I wasn't sure I can do it without blowing myself and my guns up and because almost every guy I talked about reloading told me to get a Dillon - and I just couldn't afford one.
A hands-on ammo reloading clinic will just help people to see how easy it is to reload, it will give them the pride to go home with a few ammo rounds reloaded by themselves in their pocket, it will dispel the myths that you can not reload if you live in an apartment and that you need a few thousands dollars to invest in the reloading equipment. It will also help the Calguns Foundation with money collected from student donations.

Nadir_E
10-14-2009, 7:30 AM
Just adding my voice to those saying I'm up for some instruction on how to do this and would be happy to donate towards CGF when the time comes. Standing by for concrete plans for a SoCal date.

Thanks for putting the idea out there, .454 and thanks to all who've volunteered to help run it.
-N

.454
10-14-2009, 7:31 AM
Randall makes an excellent point.

The NRA prescribes a 5:1 student to instructor ratio. With each student having their own press and accessories.


That would be the perfect scenario, I agree. I already pledged to donate a RCBS press and all accessories needed to the CGF in order to start this project. Anyone else wants to contribute with anything more than trying to put this initiative down?
Like pledging their own reloading equipment donation in order to reach the NRA 5:1 / each student with his own press prescribed ratio?

dustoff31
10-14-2009, 7:53 AM
This is why I would not start a reloading clinic with more than 5-6 students per session. With a small class, every student gets his turn to the reloading equipment to perform each step by step operation under the instructor supervision.
If you can help somebody with one-on-one private lessons at your home, that's great. However, most people who reload are reticent to let other people they don't know anything about into their homes.
The solution proposed by another CG member was the student buys the equipment and the instructor goes at the student's home and teaches him. That's not the best idea and I will say again why: most people who may be interested in starting to reload don't want to spend any amount of money investing in reloading equipment if they aren't sure they have the skills and the learning ability to do it. Read this thread from the beginning and you'll see how many Calgunners don't reload just because of that. I know I postponed reloading for years because I wasn't sure I can do it without blowing myself and my guns up and because almost every guy I talked about reloading told me to get a Dillon - and I just couldn't afford one.
A hands-on ammo reloading clinic will just help people to see how easy it is to reload, it will give them the pride to go home with a few ammo rounds reloaded by themselves in their pocket, it will dispel the myths that you can not reload if you live in an apartment and that you need a few thousands dollars to invest in the reloading equipment. It will also help the Calguns Foundation with money collected from student donations.

Perhaps we should consider an introductory course at first. Give a general overview of reloading, the pros, cons, costs of various presses, dies, components, etc.

In this way, folks could be shown that, as you point out, one doesn't necessarily need a Dillion 650. For their purposes, a used Rockchucker or a Lee hand press might do just fine.

Also, some who can't donate equipment might be willing to at least loan or bring it in for demonstration purposes.

Those interested could then get their equipment and we then hold a reloading class proper.

jeferd
10-14-2009, 8:21 AM
This sounds great...me and a couple friends have been thinking about reloading for a while but have never pulled the trigger. A class scenario would be a great way of getting a few of us in the Sac area to attend

mmartin
10-14-2009, 9:06 AM
suggesting a scenario here, don't know that all the details work but...

set up an intro-course with 1 instructor and 5 to 10 students. overview and introduction, chance for each student to try the process. this is an INTRO course, not a full reloading class.

for those that are interested at the end of the intro, they order equipment. perhaps a discount on equipment or group buy. once equpiment comes in, set up courses in up to 5 students to teach them how to actually use it.

megan

Spyder
10-14-2009, 9:27 AM
...I'm going to have to follow this thread. I'm between Chico and Sacramento and would drive an hour or two to learn. I may take Ivanimal up on his offer...Concord isn't too far!

5hundo
10-14-2009, 9:42 AM
There are plenty of youtube videos teaching reloading already. However, I believe nothing can replace the "hands on" experience a newbie can have by attending an ammo reloading clinic. Imagine how somebody who doesn't know anything about reloading can measure the powder, resize and prime the brass, then put the bullet on top with his own two hands. Not mentioning the satisfaction of leaving from the clinic with a few rounds of ammo he reloaded himself in his pocket.

Yeah, you're correct...

...however, it's better than nothing. If someone is unable to make it to the event in person because of family commitments, or work, this would allow them to still participate from a remote location. Is it as good as doing it in person?

...no way.

Is it better than not doing anything?

Yeah...

Plus, a Webinar would give people the option of asking questions "real-time", while an instuctor is teaching. I know that ammosmith is really good about answering questions on his youtube channel (he's even answered a couple of mine ;) ), but even then, you have to wait up to a day, sometimes, for him to respond. That's slightly inconvenient if you've started reloading and then have a question. Some webinar programs can actually allow participants to type in questions as well, without disrupting the instruction. That way, the instructor can try to tie in the question to the lesson, or answer it later.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 10:59 AM
the hubby spoke with the guys at dillon...
no group discount available to us as a group, oddly enough, they're getting tons of interest out of california right now...
however, if we have somone who is already a retailer who wants to be a distributor, we can get wholesale discounts on quantity orders.
in his discussion, they also brought up the "L" word... liability... for the instructors and recommended we use a certified instructor.

so, one option might be, intro class, and then put together a distributor buy for equipment, including reloading videos/dvds.

megan

fencekutter
10-14-2009, 11:01 AM
Also following this thread. I would pay to attend a Sac area class.

AEC1
10-14-2009, 11:18 AM
You all have stumbled upon my retirement business modle/plan. I always remeber my mom and now my wife going to craft stores/hopby shops. Whether it was ceramics, quilting ot painting, they pay a monthly fee go there and all the tools and equipment is there, they socialize with other ladies and such.

When i retire I am going back to Florida and opening Rich's man shop. It will have a lathe, mill, and 10-15 presses set up in all the major calibers, along with all the other items needed. Give me 50 a month and come use the equiment, and socialize with other guys. The money will be made by selling of components and providing private lessons.

boxbro
10-14-2009, 11:30 AM
in his discussion, they also brought up the "L" word... liability... for the instructors and recommended we use a certified instructor.

Maybe one of the legal minds here can draft up a waiver of liability for everyone to sign ?

sierratangofoxtrotunion
10-14-2009, 11:32 AM
I have an open offer to anyone that will travel to the Concord area for lessons.

...I'm going to have to follow this thread. I'm between Chico and Sacramento and would drive an hour or two to learn. I may take Ivanimal up on his offer...Concord isn't too far!

I'd be interested in a Concord clinic too, I'm less than an hour away.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
10-14-2009, 11:33 AM
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Guns/PortableReloadingoutfit1024.jpg

Hmmm, how much would putting together a kit like this cost?

bomb_on_bus
10-14-2009, 11:36 AM
Man I would be so IN for this!

dustoff31
10-14-2009, 11:41 AM
Hmmm, how much would putting together a kit like this cost?

I'd say you are looking at somewhere around $175.00 - $200.00 (internet prices) for everything in the pic.

Here is just one place to check prices http://www.grafs.com

sierratangofoxtrotunion
10-14-2009, 11:42 AM
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/jzorns/Guns/IMGP3203.jpg

Threadjack: Wow I can tell this guy doesn't have small kids. My house, eh... doesn't look like this. Last night they managed to bring the curtains down on the front window. :eek::mad:

gemini1
10-14-2009, 1:15 PM
Anybody from the bay area interested in doing this? count me in I'm in Daly City.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 1:20 PM
so how do we add a poll to this? maybe by region so we can get a headcount?
megan

.454
10-14-2009, 1:33 PM
Hmmm, how much would putting together a kit like this cost?

Hand press kit (includes press, funnel, priming ram, case lube) $36.99
Reloading tray (2 pcs.) $14.20
Dies (set of 3, carbide) $26.99
Reloading manual (Lyman) $14.99

Total = $93.17

CSACANNONEER
10-14-2009, 1:40 PM
Hand press kit (includes press, funnel, priming ram, case lube) $36.99
Reloading tray (2 pcs.) $14.20
Dies (set of 3, carbide) $26.99
Reloading manual (Lyman) $14.99

Total = $93.17

Plus components. I would also highly recommend a scale as well. Even the cheap Lee scale is better than just dipping. Yes, I started reloading with dippers only and a $6 Lee Loadall Jr. in 12g.

mattmansacto
10-14-2009, 1:40 PM
I would like to attend one sacramento too.

.454
10-14-2009, 1:47 PM
Plus components. I would also highly recommend a scale as well. Even the cheap Lee scale is better than just dipping. Yes, I started reloading with dippers only and a $6 Lee Loadall Jr. in 12g.

A Lee scale is $21.99
It's good to have it because it gives you more versatility to reload milder or hotter rounds and use more than one type of powder; but even if you don't have it, you still can reload using the dipper provided with the dies set.

Bullets are extra, price starting at $45 per 500 pcs. for hard cast lead 9mm; once fired brass is free (better start saving it)
I cast my own lead bullets (that ain't rocket science either) so for me the cost of a reloaded round is only 12%-15% of what people pay for factory ammo retail price.

http://i38.tinypic.com/24c72bb.jpg

CSACANNONEER
10-14-2009, 1:52 PM
A Lee scale is $21.99
It's good to have it because it gives you more versatility to reload milder or hotter rounds and use more than one type of powder; but even if you don't have it, you still can reload using the dipper provided with the dies set.

But, that limits the powder you can use. I went as far as getting the Lee dipper set so that I could change loads and/or use different powders. Of course, that was 24 years ago. I have several mechanical and electronic balances now.

.454
10-14-2009, 1:53 PM
so how do we add a poll to this? maybe by region so we can get a headcount?
megan


I can't do it, but maybe the mods can.

.454
10-14-2009, 2:09 PM
But, that limits the powder you can use. I went as far as getting the Lee dipper set so that I could change loads and/or use different powders. Of course, that was 24 years ago. I have several mechanical and electronic balances now.

I also started with a dipper, then got a Lee and later on somebody gave me a RCBS1010 as a gift (it retails for $146). Guess what? I reloaded with the 1010 for a few months but in the end I went back to my old $21 Lee scale.

1JimMarch
10-14-2009, 2:30 PM
Years ago in a period of desperation I drove cab for three months. A "dealer in recreational pharmaceuticals" left a small folding balance-beam scale in my back seat once, with a bunch of white powder residue in there. I said to myself "hey, I've got my first reloading component once I clean this baby!".

Still have it.

(True story: I took it back to the barn, showed a couple guys the thing, we're kinda wondering what the powder was. The mechanic takes it, pulls the beam out, scrapes the residue into one corner, SNORTS IT, says "yeah (schork!) it's meth (slobber!) good stuff too (cough)". Me: YOU IDIOT!!!)

.454
10-14-2009, 2:53 PM
Years ago in a period of desperation I drove cab for three months. A "dealer in recreational pharmaceuticals" left a small folding balance-beam scale in my back seat once, with a bunch of white powder residue in there. I said to myself "hey, I've got my first reloading component once I clean this baby!".

Still have it.

(True story: I took it back to the barn, showed a couple guys the thing, we're kinda wondering what the powder was. The mechanic takes it, pulls the beam out, scrapes the residue into one corner, SNORTS IT, says "yeah (schork!) it's meth (slobber!) good stuff too (cough)". Me: YOU IDIOT!!!)


Damn it man, you just blew our cover! :D

boxbro
10-14-2009, 3:14 PM
A Lee scale is $21.99
It's good to have it because it gives you more versatility to reload milder or hotter rounds and use more than one type of powder; but even if you don't have it, you still can reload using the dipper provided with the dies set.

Bullets are extra, price starting at $45 per 500 pcs. for hard cast lead 9mm; once fired brass is free (better start saving it)
I cast my own lead bullets (that ain't rocket science either) so for me the cost of a reloaded round is only 12%-15% of what people pay for factory ammo retail price.


How does that work out when cleaning the gun ?
I remember shooting lead years ago and got so frustrated with cleaning the barrel that I just gave up on lead.
A friend of mine says if you soak the barrel in Hoppe's in a Ziploc overnight it makes it easier.

CSACANNONEER
10-14-2009, 3:28 PM
How does that work out when cleaning the gun ?
I remember shooting lead years ago and got so frustrated with cleaning the barrel that I just gave up on lead.
A friend of mine says if you soak the barrel in Hoppe's in a Ziploc overnight it makes it easier.

It depends. I've run well over 1500 rounds of my own cast bullets without cleaning my 1911 before. When I finally got around to cleaning it, there was ZERO lead fouling. But, other loads in other guns tend to foul a bit. A lot of it has to do with the lube you use and/or if you start pushing them real fast. I just happened on the perfect combination of powder, charge, lube and bullet diameter for my barrel. I've never had a barrel so leaded that I couldn't clean it in 15 minutes with a SS or brass brush.

.454
10-14-2009, 3:41 PM
It depends. I've run well over 1500 rounds of my own cast bullets without cleaning my 1911 before. When I finally got around to cleaning it, there was ZERO lead fouling. But, other loads in other guns tend to foul a bit. A lot of it has to do with the lube you use and/or if you start pushing them real fast. I just happened on the perfect combination of powder, charge, lube and bullet diameter for my barrel. I've never had a barrel so leaded that I couldn't clean it in 15 minutes with a SS or brass brush.

Never had problems with lead fouling. I use Lee tumble lube (it's messy but cheap, fast and convenient). For rounds pushing over 1300 fps (like .454 Casull) I use gas checks.
One secret I learned from the veterans at castboolits.com is that contrary of what most people believe the softer the bullet cast alloy, the less lead is left in the barrel. I only cast wheel weights with no added antimony or tin for hardening.

boxbro
10-14-2009, 3:56 PM
Never had problems with lead fouling. I use Lee tumble lube (it's messy but cheap, fast and convenient). For rounds pushing over 1300 fps (like .454 Casull) I use gas checks.
One secret I learned from the veterans at castboolits.com is that contrary of what most people believe the softer the bullet cast alloy, the less lead is left in the barrel. I only cast wheel weights with no added antimony or tin for hardening.

castboolits.com doesn't seem to exist ?
Where do you get the wheel weights ?
From tire shops or wholesale ?
Can you give us a basic breakdown of costs of casting vs. buying plated or already cast lead ?
Is there a significant savings or is it a combination of the savings and the coolness of casting your own ?

rolo
10-14-2009, 4:06 PM
Boxbro, I can't give you facts and figures because I've never bought commercial bullets for reloading, but lead can be free for the taking.

A cast iron ladle from a yardsale, a bullet mold from your favorite source and a propane stove can be all the equipment you need, depending on your specific circumstances.

Milsurp Collector
10-14-2009, 4:34 PM
Hmmm, how much would putting together a kit like this cost?


Affordable ($134-$163) Lee kits http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/rlpress2.html

.454
10-14-2009, 4:52 PM
castboolits.com doesn't seem to exist ?
Where do you get the wheel weights ?
From tire shops or wholesale ?
Can you give us a basic breakdown of costs of casting vs. buying plated or already cast lead ?
Is there a significant savings or is it a combination of the savings and the coolness of casting your own ?

The correct web address is http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php

I buy wheel weights from a tire shop, the cost is $50 for a Homer bucket full of lead (that's around 120-130lb). After smelting the wheel weights and getting rid of the glue, rubber, zinc weights and the occasional tire valve, I flux the molten lead with candle wax, then cast the lead in muffin trays.

What I get left is around 100lb of lead ingots (my son calls them "Chinese lead muffins) from which I can cast...let's do the math:
1 lb = 7,000 grains
100 lb = 700,000
1 .45 bullet = 200 grain
700,000 : 200 = 3,500 bullets per bucket.
$50 cost of lead : 3,500 bullets = $0.014 per bullet

If I add the cost of electricity to run the furnace, the natural gas used to fire up the smelting pot and the Lee tumble lube, I would estimate my total cost is about 2 penny per .45 bullet. The cheapest commercial cast bullets cost 16 penny per .45 bullet.

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 5:05 PM
Anyone else wants to contribute with anything more than trying to put this initiative down?
Like pledging their own reloading equipment donation in order to reach the NRA 5:1 / each student with his own press prescribed ratio?

I'm sure I could scrounge up a single stage press, priming tool, scale, powder measure and dies to loan out for a class.
If it's on a weekend I am available, I can even help teach.

boxbro
10-14-2009, 5:07 PM
The correct web address is http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php

I buy wheel weights from a tire shop, the cost is $50 for a Homer bucket full of lead (that's around 120-130lb). After smelting the wheel weights and getting rid of the glue, rubber, zinc weights and the occasional tire valve, I flux the molten lead with candle wax, then cast the lead in muffin trays.

What I get left is around 100lb of lead ingots (my son calls them "Chinese lead muffins) from which I can cast...let's do the math:
1 lb = 7,000 grains
100 lb = 700,000
1 .45 bullet = 200 grain
700,000 : 200 = 3,500 bullets per bucket.
$50 cost of lead : 3,500 bullets = $0.014 per bullet

If I add the cost of electricity to run the furnace, the natural gas used to fire up the smelting pot and the Lee tumble lube, I would estimate my total cost is about 2 penny per .45 bullet. The cheapest commercial cast bullets cost 16 penny per .45 bullet.

So for every 1000 bullets it costs $20 instead of $160, saving you $140.
Any estimate on how long it takes to smelt, flux, cast, and lube 1000 bullets ?
Sorry for so many questions, just trying to see if it's worth my time.

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 5:10 PM
Plus, a Webinar would give people the option of asking questions "real-time", while an instuctor is teaching. I know that ammosmith is really good about answering questions on his youtube channel (he's even answered a couple of mine ;) ), but even then, you have to wait up to a day, sometimes, for him to respond. That's slightly inconvenient if you've started reloading and then have a question. Some webinar programs can actually allow participants to type in questions as well, without disrupting the instruction. That way, the instructor can try to tie in the question to the lesson, or answer it later.

Without the hands-on experience, the person is not really qualified to ask questions.
There will be enough questions asked by just the attending participants to more than keep the instructors busy.
Fielding questions from non-participants really is a waste of time.
If they can't make it to the seminar, they are just not committed enough to be worty of the instructors attention.

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 5:18 PM
The cheapest commercial cast bullets cost 16 penny per .45 bullet.

I can buy 200gr 45's for around $90/1000 from a local bullet caster.

.454
10-14-2009, 5:24 PM
So for every 1000 bullets it costs $20 instead of $160, saving you $140.
Any estimate on how long it takes to smelt, flux, cast, and lube 1000 bullets ?
Sorry for so many questions, just trying to see if it's worth my time.

Gee...I don't know, I never cast 1000 bullets on a single run. I'd say smelting an entire bucket of lead is taking about 2 hours, it should take another 1 1/2 - 2 hours to cast 1000 bullets with a 6 hole mould (considering it takes about 15 seconds per each pouring). I'm just guesstimating this since I never cast more than 200-300 bullets at the time.
However, time is not the most important factor. It's the fun I have doing it and the knowledge that if something bad should happen I am sitting on a stash of at least 25,000 bullets.

.454
10-14-2009, 5:28 PM
I can buy 200gr 45's for around $90/1000 from a local bullet caster.

That's a really good price. It's probably what Midway pays wholesale.

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 5:33 PM
No, that's a bad price.
2 years ago, they were $60/k.
I used to pay $25/k for 124gr 9mm bullets too.
Now those are around $55.

jaymz
10-14-2009, 6:02 PM
I'd love to start reloading. As a matter of fact, I bought a Hornady progressive press 2 1/2 months ago. The 1000 free bullets was a selling point. Long story short, I emailed them on Monday to ask "where's my bullets", their response today "we are out of the 10mm bullets you ordered, and won't be making any more until the first of the year, you want to pick something else?" WTF? No. If I wanted something else, I would have ordered something else. It's been 2 months, they want me to wait at least 2 more. And to top it all off, they already have my S&H money!


:rant:

.454
10-14-2009, 6:21 PM
I'd love to start reloading. As a matter of fact, I bought a Hornady progressive press 2 1/2 months ago. The 1000 free bullets was a selling point. Long story short, I emailed them on Monday to ask "where's my bullets", their response today "we are out of the 10mm bullets you ordered, and won't be making any more until the first of the year, you want to pick something else?" WTF? No. If I wanted something else, I would have ordered something else. It's been 2 months, they want me to wait at least 2 more. And to top it all off, they already have my S&H money!


:rant:

That really sucks. Where did you get the press, from Midway or directly from Hornady?
I guess the only thing left for you to do is to buy a couple hundred bullets from somewhere else until you get your backorder. Ask ar15barrels, maybe he can hook you up with his cast bullet supplier. And BTW, if you shoot a 10mm Glock, make sure you don't shoot cast boolits with the factory polygonal barrel, it can go kaboom.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 6:22 PM
So Kes added a poll to this thread for us, if you are interested and haven't voted yet, do that.
this will help us find out what areas have enough interest for classes or clinics and make sure we can notify those who are interested as we get these set up!
Megan and .454

.454
10-14-2009, 6:27 PM
So Kes added a poll to this thread for us, if you are interested and haven't voted yet, do that.
this will help us find out what areas have enough interest for classes or clinics and make sure we can notify those who are interested as we get these set up!
Megan and .454

Thanks Megan.
Wow! So far we have 18 people interested to attend in the LA/OC/SD area alone. We're already booked 3 months in advance! :D

jaymz
10-14-2009, 6:40 PM
That really sucks. Where did you get the press, from Midway or directly from Hornady?
I guess the only thing left for you to do is to buy a couple hundred bullets from somewhere else until you get your backorder. Ask ar15barrels, maybe he can hook you up with his cast bullet supplier. And BTW, if you shoot a 10mm Glock, make sure you don't shoot cast boolits with the factory polygonal barrel, it can go kaboom.

Bought it at Bass Pro Shop in Rancho. Don't own any Glocks. I have a Kimber 1911.

dchang0
10-14-2009, 6:47 PM
What better slap in the face to the douches who passed AB 962 other than having thousands and thousands of California gun owners not only reloading millions of UNTRACEABLE rounds of ammo, but also depriving the state of Kommiefornia of 100's of thousands of dollars of sales tax revenue?

The best slap in the face would be for CRIMINALS to start importing millions of black market rounds into the state, selling it all for a tidy profit, just like with drugs!

But our slap is legal, so it feels soooooo right!

BTW, I voted, but I already know how to reload. I might be able to volunteer to help teach, if additional instructors are needed.

.454
10-14-2009, 6:57 PM
The best slap in the face would be for CRIMINALS to start importing millions of black market rounds into the state, selling it all for a tidy profit, just like with drugs!

But our slap is legal, so it feels soooooo right!

BTW, I voted, but I already know how to reload. I might be able to volunteer to help teach, if additional instructors are needed.

Thanks for the volunteering offer, I'll keep you in mind.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 6:58 PM
BTW, I voted, but I already know how to reload. I might be able to volunteer to help teach, if additional instructors are needed.

perfect... that way the experience folks and those that want to learn can find each other...
megan

.454
10-14-2009, 7:00 PM
perfect... that way the experience folks and those that want to learn can find each other...
megan

I too need to learn rifle ammo reloading. I only reload for handguns.

Lone_Gunman
10-14-2009, 7:12 PM
I assume everybody here is familiar with the world's cheapest reloader, the Lee Classic Loader?

If not:



This is also known as the "whack a mole special" :).

The problem with this thing is, you really need to weigh a couple of test powder charges from the included dipper and the powder type you've picked - with a really good scale.

A "reloading clinic" based on this thing could include test-weighing of people's powder throws with the included dipper.

One reputable source has these for $19 a pop:

http://www.factorysales.com/html/xcart/catalog/dies-p4.html#LeeLoader

They work great for revolvers and bolt-action rifles, not so good for semis.

Why not so good for semis?

CSACANNONEER
10-14-2009, 7:17 PM
I too need to learn rifle ammo reloading. I only reload for handguns.

Bottle neck rounds are basically the same as straightwalled rounds but, there can be A LOT more brass prep involved. I like teaching reloading with 50BMG brass because it is big enough to see the little things that are hard to see on small brass. So, who wants to stop by and prep some brass for me? I mean, who wants to come by and learn about reloading?

There are many different procedures which can be done during brass prep. Many of them are not going to be covered in a basic reloading 101 class.

Gio
10-14-2009, 7:19 PM
Just East of San Fran near Oakland. I know that there are several other loaders around this ara like 20 min or so from me. I am down to have a reload clinic around here. My XL650 is on a old desk and can be moved without too much trouble. Just as long as the weather is good I do not see a problem getting out and doing something like that.

-Gio

Lone_Gunman
10-14-2009, 7:23 PM
I have an open offer to anyone that will travel to the Concord area for lessons.

I would be willing to make the drive from the Sac area as well. Provided it is on a Saturday.

WileyWilly
10-14-2009, 7:26 PM
I would be glad to teach someone to reload in the central coast area.
WW

GunOwner
10-14-2009, 7:31 PM
Someone might also want to do a YouTube video of the various methods of reloading so even more folks can get access to the information. In fact there may be some YouTube videos that pass muster now and all someone who knows would need to do is review them and provide the links in a sticky. Then add some other chat links so people can ask questions when they get stuck. This movement could be very powerful and potentially result in lost revenue for the state so they rethink (sorry think) about this stupid law.

shadowofnight
10-14-2009, 7:35 PM
I'd love to start reloading. As a matter of fact, I bought a Hornady progressive press 2 1/2 months ago. The 1000 free bullets was a selling point. Long story short, I emailed them on Monday to ask "where's my bullets", their response today "we are out of the 10mm bullets you ordered, and won't be making any more until the first of the year, you want to pick something else?" WTF? No. If I wanted something else, I would have ordered something else. It's been 2 months, they want me to wait at least 2 more. And to top it all off, they already have my S&H money!


:rant:


I had picked the 180gr XTP's ( Item number 44050 .430 44 CAL 180 GR HP/XTP ) right when the promotion started months ago...bought like 3 sets of dies so its only 300 bullets....but still I want them. I called last week and they told me that they arent going to start production on the 180's till February of next year :eek: Like you they already had my shipping and handling money....so I asked what do you have available ?

She said they had the 240gr XTP's in stock.....they sent them the next day...emailed me the tracking number...they are due for delivery tomorrow. They should have sent us a letter stating they were out of stock...we shouldnt of had to call ourselves....I have gotten back rebates from Frys quicker then this. :rolleyes:

mtsul
10-14-2009, 7:42 PM
Im in for riverside/corona

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 7:50 PM
Why not so good for semis?

They don't push the shoulder back properly.
It takes a real press to do that.

GunOwner
10-14-2009, 7:50 PM
Question one for the clinics is which method and equipment will folks teach on (maybe the manufacturers will do the demos and offer preferred pricing?) As I understand it there are a number of different reloading methods from the Lee Classic Loader to almost fully automated. That is the extent of my knowledge. I would appreciate opinions about pros and cons of various methods and why people chose the methods they did. I want to reload 45ACP, 9mm, .223 and .308 - (yes I standardized on the standard stuff). Assuming I shoot a couple hundred rounds a month - what do the experts recommend.

p.s. I put a premium on safety so if there is a safer machine I'll pay a reasonable amount for that.

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 7:53 PM
This movement could be very powerful and potentially result in lost revenue for the state so they rethink (sorry think) about this stupid law.

Don't kid yourself.
If hundreds of new people start reloading, the state will be making MORE revenue from all the sales tax on the tools and components.
Remember that according to the law, you have to buy the BULLETS here...

rojocorsa
10-14-2009, 7:53 PM
Something like this would be great! Good Idea.

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 7:56 PM
maybe the manufacturers will do the demos and offer preferred pricing?

Good luck on that.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 7:58 PM
Question one for the clinics is which method and equipment will folks teach on (maybe the manufacturers will do the demos and offer preferred pricing?)
the hubby talked to the Dillon folks and they won't do discounts for us direct from the factory, but suggested we contact a local retailer and see if they'll do it... we might get a group discount through them.
megan

mmartin
10-14-2009, 8:00 PM
Remember that according to the law, you have to buy the BULLETS here...
which law?
megan

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 8:08 PM
which law?
megan


Have you actually READ AB962?

.454
10-14-2009, 8:16 PM
Question one for the clinics is which method and equipment will folks teach on (maybe the manufacturers will do the demos and offer preferred pricing?)

Although I personally learned all by myself on a turret press, for clarity and simplicity reasons I would recommend a single stage. It is easier to explain the step by step reloading basics.
I don't think any equipment manufacturer would offer special pricing. The most we can hope for is after we start the clinic to pitch them the idea of donating reloading equipment to have more students attending. If I would be in the shoes of the owner of a reloading equipment manufacturing company, I would like the idea of having students learning to reload on my equipment since most people buy the brand they are familiar with.

As I understand it there are a number of different reloading methods from the Lee Classic Loader to almost fully automated. That is the extent of my knowledge. I would appreciate opinions about pros and cons of various methods and why people chose the methods they did. I want to reload 45ACP, 9mm, .223 and .308 - (yes I standardized on the standard stuff). Assuming I shoot a couple hundred rounds a month - what do the experts recommend.

All brands and models are good and reliable, just buy the one you can afford.

p.s. I put a premium on safety so if there is a safer machine I'll pay a reasonable amount for that.

All brands and models are equally safe; the only factor in the ammo reloading equation that can cause unpleasant surprises is you, the guy who measures the powder and cranks the press lever. Don't pay close and undistributed attention to what you do or don't respect the recipes from the ammo cook book and sooner or later you'll pay the price.

SanSacto
10-14-2009, 8:18 PM
C'mon San Diego guys, let's do this!

wildhawker
10-14-2009, 8:21 PM
Have you actually READ AB962?

You mean the one that goes into effect February, 2011?

The one that does not prohibit the mail-order purchase of components?

Have *YOU* actually read AB962 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=230703)?

.454
10-14-2009, 8:21 PM
Have you actually READ AB962?

I admit I am illiterate in reading laws, but yesterday Librarian had a post interpreting AB962 from which I understood he considers reloading components not to be restricted to FTF transactions only. Check with him, he seems to be quite sure of that.

CSACANNONEER
10-14-2009, 8:22 PM
Have you actually READ AB962?

Can you point out exactly where in AB962 it says that you must buy bullets in California? If it said anything like that, it could follow that it would be illegal to cast your own. Also, it would interfer with interstate commerce. As I understand it, the way it is written, you could theoretically still order from out of state but, the seller would be resposible for checking your ID etc. in person when you receive any product specified in the bill. So, as it stands, it could be argued that it does not affect interstate commerce.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 8:25 PM
You mean the one that goes into effect February, 2011?

The one that does not prohibit the mail-order purchase of components?

Have *YOU* actually read AB962 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=230703)?

thank you, you were faster than I on that.
megan (who actually DID read it.)

dwh100
10-14-2009, 8:26 PM
Long Beach checking in with an affirmative!

mmartin
10-14-2009, 8:29 PM
Although I personally learned all by myself on a turret press, for clarity and simplicity reasons I would recommend a single stage. It is easier to explain the step by step reloading basics.
I was talking with the hubby about that this morning... he suggested going straight to the multi-stage type because there are good models available at very reasonable prices, some less than single stages. it takes a bit more to learn them from scratch, but you won't outgrow them nearly as soon.
megan

wildhawker
10-14-2009, 8:29 PM
Ok, a short but important point:

* Something like handloading ammunition carries some risks that we're not setup handle at this point; please understand that we must be cautious in sponsoring official Calguns events and something of this nature is just not within the scope of what we can do at this time.

That said, it sounds like tons of fun and I'm glad to see so many folks coming together!

Sig357
10-14-2009, 8:34 PM
I am very interested in an auto indexing press. I guess I'm going to have to sell back some vacation hrs. :(

spencerhut
10-14-2009, 8:38 PM
I'll run a clinic in the Fresno area.

GunOwner
10-14-2009, 8:39 PM
All brands and models are good and reliable, just buy the one you can afford.


Really? I have researched just a little and there does seem to be a pecking order. Is a high end Lee as good as lower end Dillon? Come on - pretend I'm your son-in-law and give me the low down.

If I am going to save money making ammo $100 or $200 more for a press that is quicker and easier to use will be well worth it - who has suggestions?

.454
10-14-2009, 8:39 PM
Ok, a short but important point:

* Something like handloading ammunition carries some risks that we're not setup handle at this point; please understand that we must be cautious in sponsoring official Calguns events and something of this nature is just not within the scope of what we can do at this time.

That said, it sounds like tons of fun and I'm glad to see so many folks coming together!

How about a disclaimer:

Reloading ammo is fun and can save you money. However we are not responsible for your disembowelment, decapitation, total or partial paralysis, amputation of limbs, underwear staining etc, if you are an idiot who doesn't observe the elementary rules of reloading safety we teach.

In a more serious note, I believe reloading is about as risky as it is going to the range and having putting a bullet through your foot because you don't observe the range safety rules.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 8:42 PM
I'll run a clinic in the Fresno area.

did you vote on the poll? helps to get everyone on it so we know who's in what area... both the "want-to"s and the "can-teach"s
megan

.454
10-14-2009, 8:50 PM
Really? I have researched just a little and there does seem to be a pecking order. Is a high end Lee as good as lower end Dillon? Come on - pretend I'm your son-in-law and give me the low down.

If I am going to save money making ammo $100 or $200 more for a press that is quicker and easier to use will be well worth it - who has suggestions?

Don't know how to make you understand...I already said this but I will repeat again: all reloading equipment is made here in the USA. It's all good stuff. You can crank up EXACTLY the same ammo in about the same time on a Lee as you will on a Dillon. The difference is the easiness of setup, ergonomics, name recognition and (some say) durability.
It's just like with automobiles: you can drive to Vegas in about the same amount of time in a Mercedes SLK or in a Chevy Malibu. If you can afford a Mercedes and like to travel in style, good for you. If you can't, the Chevy is a perfectly safe and reliable car.

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 8:54 PM
Can you point out exactly where in AB962 it says that you must buy bullets in California? If it said anything like that, it could follow that it would be illegal to cast your own. Also, it would interfer with interstate commerce. As I understand it, the way it is written, you could theoretically still order from out of state but, the seller would be resposible for checking your ID etc. in person when you receive any product specified in the bill. So, as it stands, it could be argued that it does not affect interstate commerce.

I have actually read it a few times, but I was going by one of Bills interpretations...

five.five-six
10-14-2009, 8:55 PM
I drive a moped

(rockchucker)

ar15barrels
10-14-2009, 8:57 PM
Is a high end Lee as good as lower end Dillon?

The lee people want to believe there's no difference.
The people that have used them all understand why they spend the extra money on the dillon.
The cheaper the press, the more fidgeting you generally have to do to keep it running.

.454
10-14-2009, 9:08 PM
The lee people want to believe there's no difference.
The people that have used them all understand why they spend the extra money on the dillon.
The cheaper the press, the more fidgeting you generally have to do to keep it running.

I do ZERO fidgeting on my Lee Turret Classic. I have the dies for all calibers I reload already set on separate turrets, changing turrets to switch to a different caliber only takes me seconds. The powder through die measure takes less than 1 minute to flip the disks and switch from one powder charge to another. The autoprimer takes up to 150 primers at once and feeds flawlessly. The auto indexing works great. If I want to use it as a single stage, I can disable the auto indexing in a second.
I cannot talk about the progressive press Lee makes, but I consider my Lee turret press a great choice for any reloader on a budget.

wildhawker
10-14-2009, 9:09 PM
There's a difference between hosting a closely-monitored and controlled range session and *teaching* a class.

We're not setup for it. Please understand that I'm not trying to splash water on the idea, just that it can't be sponsored by Calguns.

How about a disclaimer:



In a more serious note, I believe reloading is about as risky as it is going to the range and having putting a bullet through your foot because you don't observe the range safety rules.

.454
10-14-2009, 9:15 PM
There's a difference between hosting a closely-monitored and controlled range session and *teaching* a class.

We're not setup for it. Please understand that I'm not trying to splash water on the idea, just that it can't be sponsored by Calguns.

I don't think I have ever asked for Calguns sponsorship just like the guys who hosted AK bending parties didn't asked for Calguns sponsorship either; on the contrary I suggested we could ask participants to voluntarily donate a small amount to CGF before attending the clinic.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 9:23 PM
I don't think I have ever asked for Calguns sponsorship just like the guys who hosted AK bending parties didn't asked for Calguns sponsorship either; on the contrary I suggested we could ask participants to voluntarily donate a small amount to CGF before attending the clinic.

I would think that would work...
megan

G-Man WC
10-14-2009, 9:25 PM
We're not setup for it. Please understand that I'm not trying to splash water on the idea, just that it can't be sponsored by Calguns.
I think everyone would treat it as a learning experience and not an official sanctioned CalGuns event. There should be a waiver stating that host is in no way responsible. I'd be okay with that. -g

wildhawker
10-14-2009, 9:28 PM
We're not setup for it. Please understand that I'm not trying to splash water on the idea, just that it can't be sponsored by Calguns.
I think everyone would treat it as a learning experience and not an official sanctioned CalGuns event. There should be a waiver stating that host is in no way responsible. I'd be okay with that. -g

Consider the title of the thread as well as the exchange of goods for currency...

How it would be treated by you and perceived by the State are two different things.

mmartin
10-14-2009, 9:31 PM
ok, so can we get a mod to change the thread title?
maybe to "Learn-to-Reload Jam Sessions Now Forming in Your Neighborhood"?
megan

Nessal
10-14-2009, 9:45 PM
What would I vote for East Bay?

1JimMarch
10-14-2009, 9:52 PM
This question came in regarding the Lee Classic Loader (the "$20 whack-a-mole-special):

Why not so good for semis?

Here's my understanding based on READING ONLY so far:

These things don't fully reform the brass "end to end". The issue shows up most strongly in necked rifle brass; they reform the neck area but not the body.

In practice, this means you can buy brand new ammo (or new brass you load), shoot it in a particular gun, it'll work great when reloaded in THAT gun but not in others. Once the gun is fire-formed to that chamber it works just fine.

If any part of the brass is unsupported, the Lee Classic won't reform it to a proper gun-universal spec. So buying "once fired" brass (or using range salvage) is a bad idea. And if you have more than one gun per caliber it gets way messy.

I just have the one 357 wheelgun to feed.

In a revolver, the Lee Classic works fine so long as you have nice uniform chambers. In my New Vaquero 357 for example, Ruger had switched to a new process whereby each chamber was reamed with the same bit/reamer set in sequence versus the prior "all six at once, six bits going at once" process. Which is why large frame Ruger single actions often had chamber variances. With that sort of gun, the Lee Classic might not work. With mine it should as my uniformity is much better.

Now, I'm not sure how much all this applies with straight-walled handgun semi-auto ammo such as 9mm or 45acp. I suspect a given used shell will still work best with the gun it came from, but as long as the case is fully supported or close to it you'll probably be OK. A gun like a Glock 40S&W with a relatively unsupported chamber is probably a bad candidate for whack-a-mole reloading.

It's really a budget option for people with budget guns.

There are some interesting advantages. Because it's not working the brass very hard, shell life is actually extended, esp. in the rifle calibers. And it's possible to make very accurate ammo with it, at a rate of a round every minute and a half or so.

I have this possibly crazy idea where I set up two parallel vertical strings of heavy fishing line, screw four eyelet bolts into a 2lb lead fishing weight or similar dead weight, thread it through the lines so the weight goes up and down easily and right on target, and drop it from a calibrated height for both bullet seating and esp. crimp to get a dead-perfect-uniform crimp on every round. Should be possible to get a "calibrated hammer stroke" that way.

Nessal
10-14-2009, 9:54 PM
Amen! I took on reloading pretty much by myself through reading books and advice online. I felt like I had a good grasp on things after doing a lot of research. But when you actually start DOING it, it's a totally different world! You really HAVE to try it on your own to really know how it is.


There are plenty of youtube videos teaching reloading already. However, I believe nothing can replace the "hands on" experience a newbie can have by attending an ammo reloading clinic. Imagine how somebody who doesn't know anything about reloading can measure the powder, resize and prime the brass, then put the bullet on top with his own two hands. Not mentioning the satisfaction of leaving from the clinic with a few rounds of ammo he reloaded himself in his pocket.

RRangel
10-14-2009, 9:56 PM
There can be no reloading clinics.

Someone needs to find a steady source of primers first. :chris:

mmartin
10-14-2009, 10:01 PM
A dillion is too much $$ for me however, I would not mind spending a few more dollars above an economy press if it's a better buy.

you do have to consider what your time is worth too... the hubby says he can do about 2000 rounds an hour on his dillon 1050 (8 station progressive) and he thinks with an automatic bullet feeder upgrade he might make it as high as 3000 ... when you figure in the time you spend, does it make more sense to buy a press that costs less but takes longer to use? just another factor to consider.
megan

five.five-six
10-14-2009, 11:27 PM
how about we do "ammo build partys" no smoking

mmartin
10-14-2009, 11:32 PM
Your completely right and you helped make my point why the need to determine which press is a best fit for each student. In the case of your husband and for others, it sounds like they need or require a high output machine. I don't even shoot 200 rounds a month so that would be overkill for me. The rest of the time, for me, a high end press would just be gathering dust. I'm sure that there are other members here like me who have a low monthly round count that would do fine with a lower end press. I think gathering each individuals personal needs and assiting them in obtaining the best press for their requirement should be close to the beginning of the tutorials. Somewhat like buying insurance. My needs are different than others.

yep, just like any tool, it has to fit your needs.
megan

.454
10-14-2009, 11:44 PM
Wow! 120 people already. I think we're into something.

Milsurp Collector
10-15-2009, 12:14 AM
What is the possibilities of giving reviews/recommendations on the different starter presses out there? Some may only want to reload pistol and others rifle while others mixed. I fall into the latter.

If you go to MidwayUSA.com and look at the presses and kits there, you can read reviews written by other customers, much like Amazon.com, Newegg.com, etc. Just click on the Reviews tab:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=121744
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=140616http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=814175
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=169077
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=151386
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=749997
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=197894
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=480380
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=317831
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=423081
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=176078
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=548480
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=283295
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=585100
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=646599
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=513567
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=133068
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=731667
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=271710
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=856890

Carnivore
10-15-2009, 12:51 AM
Thanks Mmartin for the PM I appreciate it.

I voted for LA as I am close to it (Ventura) but am willing to travel for the event.

Just back ground for those that are in the know I am looking at reloading 9mm .223 an .308. I have a .303 rifle an I am sure once I get more familiar with the other rounds that this would fit in later.

Shooting I want to do more but I am one of those save up an spend the weekend out in open land blasting till my arm hurts or I run out of ammo.

Now back to the topic at hand.

dantodd
10-15-2009, 12:53 AM
Ok, a short but important point:

* Something like handloading ammunition carries some risks that we're not setup handle at this point;

lol..... sounds like the voice of experience....

wildhawker
10-15-2009, 1:12 AM
You've seen things... Where's my memory flash device?

jwest
10-15-2009, 2:51 AM
Yea! My area is tied for first!

ar15barrels
10-15-2009, 3:59 AM
you do have to consider what your time is worth too... the hubby says he can do about 2000 rounds an hour on his dillon 1050 (8 station progressive) and he thinks with an automatic bullet feeder upgrade he might make it as high as 3000 ...

No he can't.
I'll bet $500 against it.
I'll come down to SD and stand there to watch him too so I can collect my winnings.

Rem222
10-15-2009, 7:44 AM
Concord area? I load rifle ammo but would like to learn how to do 38s/357s.

The Tech-1
10-15-2009, 7:48 AM
Finally voted and would be interested in learning to reload 9mm, .45 and .223/5.56

mmartin
10-15-2009, 8:02 AM
Wow! 120 people already. I think we're into something.

make that almost 150...
megan

lockandloadllc
10-15-2009, 8:06 AM
I'd like to learn how to reload, but my location isn't on the list. Ventura County. Id like to learn most of the handgun rounds (9mm, .40, .45) and .223/5.56 and .308 rifle calibers.

mmartin
10-15-2009, 8:07 AM
No he can't.
I'll bet $500 against it.
I'll come down to SD and stand there to watch him too so I can collect my winnings.

the 2000 number he does now. the 3000 number is his speculation on what's possible. I'll let you take it up with him when he gets online...

megan

eaglemike
10-15-2009, 8:08 AM
Handgun loading is fairly simple. Common sense and safety are primary, the technical stuff should be pretty easy for most on this forum. Reloading cartridges for rifle ranges from almost as easy as handgun, to very painstaking and moderately complex.

I'm in San Diego, and can help on a limited basis. I don't want to try to train more than a couple of people at a time - IMHO they need to actually do hands-on as part of the training. I've used and/or sold a lot of the common brands.

I served my apprenticeship at Star Machine Works. We made progressive loading equipment and bullet lubricator/sizers, invented by one of the owners. This was long before Dillon existed. :) How many other people here know about Hensley & Gibbs, and that they started here in San Diego?

all the best,
Mike

eaglemike
10-15-2009, 8:09 AM
the 2000 number he does now. the 3000 number is his speculation on what's possible. I'll let you take it up with him when he gets online...

megan
If primer tubes are loaded ahead of time, maybe...... :)

mmartin
10-15-2009, 8:09 AM
I'd like to learn how to reload, but my location isn't on the list. Ventura County. Id like to learn most of the handgun rounds (9mm, .40, .45) and .223/5.56 and .308 rifle calibers.

pick one that's close and vote, that way you get on the contact list for that area... maybe LA?

megan

mmartin
10-15-2009, 8:11 AM
If primer tubes are loaded ahead of time, maybe...... :)

he does prep and setup, preloads primer tubes, powder. then cranks away. he's got it down to an art. when he was shooting competition he would go through many thousands of rounds every weekend.
megan

eaglemike
10-15-2009, 8:31 AM
he does prep and setup, preloads primer tubes, powder. then cranks away. he's got it down to an art. when he was shooting competition he would go through many thousands of rounds every weekend.
megan
Megan,
BTDT. If you count the preparation time, 2K/hour is impossible on hand cranked equipment...:) That would mean 33.3333 rounds/minute. Less than 2 seconds/stroke. :) I'm not sure I know anyone that could keep that up for an hour.
all the best,
Mike

mmartin
10-15-2009, 8:35 AM
Megan,
BTDT. If you count the preparation time, 2K/hour is impossible on hand cranked equipment...:) That would mean 33.3333 rounds/minute. Less than 2 seconds/stroke. :) I'm not sure I know anyone that could keep that up for an hour.
all the best,
Mike

I'll ask him what his prep time is.
and I've seen hime keep the crank rate maxed continuously between changing primer tubes. I married a maniac.
megan

CSACANNONEER
10-15-2009, 8:46 AM
I'd like to learn how to reload, but my location isn't on the list. Ventura County. Id like to learn most of the handgun rounds (9mm, .40, .45) and .223/5.56 and .308 rifle calibers.

I could possible do a small mobile class if you have the space. I've taught more than a few calgunners how to reload at my place in TO but, I've already moved all my reloading stuff to my new place close to Agua Dulce.So, either you can come up there sometime or, I can meet you somewhere in VC. I won't be free to do it until at least Nov. though.

pennys dad
10-15-2009, 8:54 AM
I have a spare Lee turret press I could maybe put on a mobile work stand. Or I wonder if Angeles would let us use their reloading training spot.

mauritz45
10-15-2009, 8:57 AM
How about Calguns Cabelas bus trips. Reno for N.CA and Vegas for S.CA. Set it up a few months in advance and see if Cabelas will stock accordingly. We could do the same thing for the Reno and Vegas gun shows. Buy all the reloading supplies or ammo out of state. Not only untraceable, but also untaxed.

i would be in for a SF bay area clinic. i would also enjoy a bus trip w/ fellow calgunners, i would need a couple of weeks notice to schedule work off.
Scheels is also up in sparks...--cam

mmartin
10-15-2009, 8:59 AM
I'll ask him what his prep time is.
and I've seen hime keep the crank rate maxed continuously between changing primer tubes. I married a maniac.
megan

so I called him and asked for details. with the press already set with dies for the rounds he wants to load, less than 20 min to set up (load primer tubes, load brass, load powder, dump bullets in a tray).
then crank away.
he says typical cruise speed with a cigarette break in the middle, 1500 rounds an hour.
he says loading in prep for comp or a class where he's supplying the ammo for his students, 2000 an hour
typical round consumption while he was competing, 1500-3000 rounds a weekend. bring-a-buddy weekends, twice that. teaching weekends, 1500 rounds per student, sometimes as many as 10 students.
did that for years.

he also said "what's wrong, their reloading arm can't keep up?":43:
I married a maniac.

megan

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 9:03 AM
So what is the next step to getting something going either in the Sac area or over in the bay? Ivan, do you have the space to run an " Intro to Reloading" class for 5-10 people at a time? Maybe go through the theory, basics, pistol and rifle reloading, and then let the students crank out say 5 rounds each?

Once we get a firm commitment from an instructor in this area we will need to get a place to do the class, come up with a boilerplate liability release, sign up sheet, and suggested donation. Would anyone have a problem with a $25.00 donation per person, with $20.00 going to CGF and $5.00 going to the instructor for time and materials?

-LG

chico.cm
10-15-2009, 9:04 AM
Great idea!
I'm in for Chico or Oroville--possibly Sac.

pennys dad
10-15-2009, 9:13 AM
I like your thinking Lone_Gunman, we should look at the formalities and work on settling this

mmartin
10-15-2009, 9:15 AM
So what is the next step to getting something going either in the Sac area or over in the bay? Ivan, do you have the space to run an " Intro to Reloading" class for 5-10 people at a time? Maybe go through the theory, basics, pistol and rifle reloading, and then let the students crank out say 5 rounds each?

Once we get a firm commitment from an instructor in this area we will need to get a place to do the class, come up with a boilerplate liability release, sign up sheet, and suggested donation. Would anyone have a problem with a $25.00 donation per person, with $20.00 going to CGF and $5.00 going to the instructor for time and materials?

-LG

I think that's the right plan, each geographical area could use a coordinator...

so who wants to step up and coordinate for each of these?

Northern California Area
Sacramento Area
San Francisco Bay Area
North Central Valley Area
South Central Valley Area
Central Coast Area
South Coast Area (none)
Kern/Inyo Area (none)
Los Angeles Area
Orange County/Inland Empire Area
San Diego/Imperial Area
Yes but in an area not listed

megan

mmartin
10-15-2009, 9:16 AM
So what is the next step to getting something going either in the Sac area or over in the bay? Ivan, do you have the space to run an " Intro to Reloading" class for 5-10 people at a time? Maybe go through the theory, basics, pistol and rifle reloading, and then let the students crank out say 5 rounds each?

Once we get a firm commitment from an instructor in this area we will need to get a place to do the class, come up with a boilerplate liability release, sign up sheet, and suggested donation. Would anyone have a problem with a $25.00 donation per person, with $20.00 going to CGF and $5.00 going to the instructor for time and materials?

-LG

do we have a lawyer in the bunch who'd like to write up the liability wavier for for us?

megan

CSACANNONEER
10-15-2009, 9:25 AM
Ok, a short but important point:

* Something like handloading ammunition carries some risks that we're not setup handle at this point; please understand that we must be cautious in sponsoring official Calguns events and something of this nature is just not within the scope of what we can do at this time.

That said, it sounds like tons of fun and I'm glad to see so many folks coming together!

Yea, I see this as something very similar to build parties. These should not be "official" Calguns functions. Instead, we are just using Calguns to find and help each other out. There should be no more liability (for the site) than there is for dating sites.

BTW, if any possible "instructors" want pictures of my 50BMG cut-a-ways. I can get you some. They can be useful in explaining to newbies just how a cartidge functions. Here's one of the pictures that topgun7 took of them.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/AmmoSmall.jpg

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 9:37 AM
do we have a lawyer in the bunch who'd like to write up the liability wavier for for us?

megan

I just messaged Oaklander regarding this. He isn't online right now but hopefully he will chime in here.

-LG

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 9:49 AM
I think that's the right plan, each geographical area could use a coordinator...

so who wants to step up and coordinate for each of these?

Northern California Area
Sacramento Area
San Francisco Bay Area
North Central Valley Area
South Central Valley Area
Central Coast Area
South Coast Area (none)
Kern/Inyo Area (none)
Los Angeles Area
Orange County/Inland Empire Area
San Diego/Imperial Area
Yes but in an area not listed

megan


I will take the lead on the Sacramento area. It sounds like most of us in the Sac area would be willing to drive over to the bay if we need to but it would be nice to have it closer. It all really depends on finding an instructor in the area. So put me down for Sacramento area and if someone else wants to to take the Bay we could coordinate.

-LG

mmartin
10-15-2009, 9:55 AM
ok, we've got a coordinator in sacto

so who wants to step up and coordinate for each of these?
teachers want to commit?

I'll coordinate SD unless someone else wants to.... who's next?

TERRITORY ---------- COORDINATOR ---------- TEACHER
Northern California Area ---- ?? ----- ??
Sacramento Area ----- Lone Gunman ----- ??
San Francisco Bay Area ---- ?? ----- ??
North Central Valley Area ---- ?? ----- ??
South Central Valley Area ---- ?? ----- ??
Central Coast Area ---- ?? ----- ??
South Coast Area (none) ---- ?? ----- ??
Kern/Inyo Area (none) ---- ?? ----- ??
Los Angeles Area ---- ?? ----- ??
Orange County/Inland Empire Area ---- ?? ----- ??
San Diego/Imperial Area ----- mmartin ----- ??
Yes but in an area not listed ---- ?? ----- ??

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 10:07 AM
Im posting a notice for teachers and coordinators needed now in the ammo and reloading forum. Will link when done.

-LG

mmartin
10-15-2009, 10:13 AM
Im posting a notice for teachers and coordinators needed now in the ammo and reloading forum. Will link when done.

-LG

cool. I'm thinking maybe once we've got people assigned to each we should put up individual threads for each area... I can notify the voters in each group once those are up. that way each group can see the details of their own area without the additional clutter.

megan

boxbro
10-15-2009, 10:14 AM
What do you guys think about this kit ?

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1255629909.5692=/html/catalog/anivers.html

Pros ?
Cons ?

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 10:25 AM
cool. I'm thinking maybe once we've got people assigned to each we should put up individual threads for each area... I can notify the voters in each group once those are up. that way each group can see the details of their own area without the additional clutter.

megan

Sounds good. :walkman:



Thread in ammo and reloading is here. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3217146


-LG

mtsul
10-15-2009, 10:37 AM
Ok, a short but important point:

* Something like handloading ammunition carries some risks that we're not setup handle at this point; please understand that we must be cautious in sponsoring official Calguns events and something of this nature is just not within the scope of what we can do at this time.

That said, it sounds like tons of fun and I'm glad to see so many folks coming together!

Well it can be *(friends)* teaching friends so it does not have to be a official Calguns event or as sombody already said sombody could make a waiver to sign

mtsul
10-15-2009, 10:38 AM
cool. I'm thinking maybe once we've got people assigned to each we should put up individual threads for each area... I can notify the voters in each group once those are up. that way each group can see the details of their own area without the additional clutter.

megan

I got to say Megan is tight. +1 she even told me about the vote keep it up let me know if I can help

Im in for Riverside Corona

Arteel
10-15-2009, 10:41 AM
I have my own press and components I can bring to the class.

GJC
10-15-2009, 10:42 AM
San Diego area would be great for Me LOL. But if the date was right I'd be able to drive LA ish area.

CSACANNONEER
10-15-2009, 10:45 AM
I can CO-coordinate and CO-teach and offer a place to do it in Canyone Country. But, I really won't be available to do much until at least November.

Milsurp Collector
10-15-2009, 10:51 AM
What do you guys think about this kit ?

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1255629909.5692=/html/catalog/anivers.html

Pros ?
Cons ?

You can get it even cheaper at Midway http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=423081

Click on the Reviews tab on that page. Rated 4.5 out of 5 stars. Some of the reviewers didn't like the scale. You might want to get a better scale http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=605320 On the other hand, they said the powder measure is very accurate and consistent, so as long as you aren't loading near the maximum you probably would use the powder measure more than the scale. I don't have a powder measure so I weigh each powder charge individually. A powder trickler is a must if you weigh each charge as I do http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=487186

As one of the reviewers stated there are other things you will need to add, besides the dies for whatever catridge(s) you are loading. You need a dial caliper to check brass length, and a kinetic bullet puller to take rounds apart (yes, you will make mistakes at first and the bullet puller lets you take the rounds apart and start over). A case tumbler is very nice to have, so your brass is very shiny and new looking http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=103614

mmartin
10-15-2009, 10:56 AM
I got to say Megan is tight. +1 she even told me about the vote keep it up let me know if I can help

thanks, I'm honored!:D it's going to be a pleasure to meet you in person.
and I'm just happy to be of service.
megan

Nodda Duma
10-15-2009, 12:04 PM
Kern County's a big area. Kern / Inyo should be changed to Eastern Kern / Inyo, and Western Kern (ie Bakersfield) kept separate. Folks up in the Sierras could go either way.

With that said, I have already taught several people to reload. If people in the Eastern Kern / Inyo (ie Ridgecrest and surrounding areas) want to learn, they are more than welcome to contact me.

-Jason

ivanimal
10-15-2009, 12:12 PM
I dont know about 10 but 6 people is doable. I have 3 presses so it would be easy to keep 6 people busy. I dont want to be the coordinator, I am swamped with Calguns stuff but I will host classes. Heck I can use the free labor.:p

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 12:12 PM
It sounds like we have a lot of people willing to teach... we need someone in those areas willing to step up and put a class together.

Anyone in Sac willing to teach? I'm pretty sure I could find a location if that is an issue. (you might have to drive to Galt though).

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 12:14 PM
I dont know about 10 but 6 people is doable. I have 3 presses so it would be easy to keep 6 people busy. I dont want to be the coordinator, I am swamped with Calguns stuff but I will host classes. Heck I can use the free labor.:p

OK. Lets put you down for a teacher in the Bay area! If I cant find a teacher in Sac pretty soon I will just coordinate one in the bay. You have a location too Ivan?

mmartin
10-15-2009, 12:35 PM
the hubby is on to teach the SD class unless someone else wants to.
megan

pennys dad
10-15-2009, 12:53 PM
i can coordinate the OC one

nagorb
10-15-2009, 2:01 PM
This is great! I'm in for the Bay Area

rg_1111@yahoo.com
10-15-2009, 2:29 PM
Tag.

krzgoat
10-15-2009, 2:34 PM
I'd be willing to teach a clinic in Vallejo. I have a small man cave that could accomodate 3-4 people at a time. A couple of different presses and calibers.

45ACP, 223, 308, 243, 7MM

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 2:41 PM
Member tamalpias has stepped up to coordinate the Bay area one. All questions regarding that class should now go to him. Looks like the bay area one is the first one with a coordinator and a teacher.
heres the link to his member page.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/member.php?u=39454
-LG

ar15barrels
10-15-2009, 2:54 PM
Kern County's a big area. Kern / Inyo should be changed to Eastern Kern / Inyo, and Western Kern (ie Bakersfield) kept separate. Folks up in the Sierras could go either way.

Wait, there are shooters in Kern and Inyo that DON'T already reload?

bomb_on_bus
10-15-2009, 2:59 PM
Man this has turned out to be a great idea!

this thread is generating lots of votes so if a date for a clinic pops up it should be a great class. Even if I have to drive 2 hours to go to it will be worth it!

Looks like Kern isnt getting too much attention so L.A. looks like a good healthy alternative. If anyone is heading the event down in L.A. PM me the info or I will just keep an eye on the thread.

dantodd
10-15-2009, 3:11 PM
Folks up in the Sierras could go either way.

I've heard that spending a lot of time in the mountains can do that to a person.

gn3hz3ku1*
10-15-2009, 3:50 PM
Thanks Milsurp. In going over the reviews, they almost all got 4.5-5 stars. I'll just wait for the classes to form to ask specific questions there. I don't want to buy a Lee (5 star) and then find out that I should have bought a RCSB (5 star) for $10 more or vice versa(example). Sure would be nice if there was a site that had a "HELP ME CHOOSE" filter.

yea i was thinking the same thing...

.454
10-15-2009, 4:03 PM
What do you guys think about this kit ?

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1255629909.5692=/html/catalog/anivers.html

Pros ?
Cons ?

This one is faster and can work both as a turret press and as a single stage.
Midway sells it for only $109 (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=622290)

.454
10-15-2009, 4:09 PM
I'll do the LA gig and I think I'll have plenty of help here.
Unfortunately we're on hold until Jan. when Ammobros is offering us the space. Anybody else has a space to offer so we can start earlier? No business owners here interested to help with a conference room (or any room) after hours?

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 4:41 PM
Ok after going through the thread this is how things currently stand. Please let me know or post an update if I've missed any thing.

San Francisco Bay Area Coordinator: tamalpias - Teacher: Ivanimal
San Diego/Imperial Area Coordinator: mmartin - Teacher: Dragonaught (mmartins hubby)
Sacramento Area Coordinator: Lone Gunman - Teacher: Toolbox X
Orange County/Inland Empire Area Coordinator: Pennys Dad - Teacher: needed

AR-15 Barrels- Culver city. Willing to help teach and has a press he can bring
.454- Will head up the LA class. In need of a location or the class will have to wait till January for Ammo Boros location.
dchango- Can teach a class (I dont know where he is located will follow up)
Gio- East Bay Also willing to teach.
Wiley Willy- Central Coast - Willing to teach.
spencerhut-will coordinate in Fresno area
eaglemike- can help on a limited basis. Would like to teach a couple of people at a time
CSACANNONEER- Will Co-teach and Co- head up a class.
Arteel - Sacramento - Has press and components to bring to a class in Sacramento area.
krzgoat- Willing to teach small clinic in Vallejo 3-4 people at a time.
5hundo- willing to teach in LA . Needs a location.


If anyone who is interested in attending a class would take the lead in coordinating one that would be awesome.

Also regarding a release of liability Oaklander suggested I contact Jason Davis. I emailed him and he asked that I give him a call. I will call him tomorrow.

-LG

Dragonaught
10-15-2009, 4:55 PM
I can set up to teach on an outdoor range, That way you get instant gratification of the results and you can tailor the loads for the gun and optimum accuracy. Just need a range in the San Diego area………

armandolo
10-15-2009, 4:59 PM
How do we sign up and where/when are the classes (in SF)

Milsurp Collector
10-15-2009, 5:02 PM
Thanks Milsurp. In going over the reviews, they almost all got 4.5-5 stars. I'll just wait for the classes to form to ask specific questions there. I don't want to buy a Lee (5 star) and then find out that I should have bought a RCSB (5 star) for $10 more or vice versa(example). Sure would be nice if there was a site that had a "HELP ME CHOOSE" filter.

If you look at a few individual items, some of them do get low ratings, like http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=781073

so the reason many products get high ratings isn't grade inflation or lax standards. The fact is that this isn't a sophisticated, rapidly-changing technology. Reloading equipment companies have had decades to refine their products, there is a lot of competition, so most of the stuff for sale is pretty damn good and it gets the job done. The high ratings should give you confidence that most customers are very satisfied with their purchases, so it's hard to go wrong. It's then a matter of how much you want to spend, how quickly you want to get things done, and whether you prefer the color green, red, orange, or blue. ;)

Now, there is a lot of brand loyalty among some, in a Chevy vs. Ford kind of way. Some people will say get only RCBS, everything else is crap, or whatever. They are certainly entitled to their opinion, but as you saw in the reviews most people are satisfied with what they got. Many comments said they used to use brand X, but now they love brand Y, or vice versa. I think the individual components should be judged individually, you don't have to buy just one brand of everything. I use equipment made by Lee, RCBS, Lyman, and Forster.

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 5:08 PM
How do we sign up and where/when are the classes (in SF)
I would think it would be up to the coordinator to get with the teacher and schedule the classes and then post the time/location/sign up info. Im thinking the best place to post those would be in the shoots/events section but Im not sure where they are going to go. mmartin messaged me that she would be getting on later tonight to set up some individual threads.Keep an eye out

Dragonaught
10-15-2009, 5:13 PM
I have tried most of the Reloading Presses out there and as far as durability, functionality; ease of use and Warrantee Repair with FAST response time, Dillon Precision is all I use now. www.dillonprecision.com/

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 5:30 PM
I have tried most of the Reloading Presses out there and as far as durability, functionality; ease of use and Warrantee Repair with FAST response time, Dillon Precision is all I use now. www.dillonprecision.com/

Welcome to Calguns mmartins husband! Good to have you here.

joelogic
10-15-2009, 5:55 PM
Throw me in with Ivanimal. Have dillon 650 and will travel. Willing to donate components as well. I reload .45, .223, .308, 6.8. Good luck getting me to donate any 6.8 stuff, though :) PM me for details, if need be.

Nodda Duma
10-15-2009, 7:28 PM
Wait, there are shooters in Kern and Inyo that DON'T already reload?

lol you have a good point there. If you're not reloading in Kern or Inyo, it means one 20-round box of hunting ammo lasts about a year or two in your household. :D

I've heard that spending a lot of time in the mountains can do that to a person.

hah!

-Jason

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 8:18 PM
Ok Guys. We have a teacher for the first Sacto class. I'm hashing out the details like Date/Time/Number of participants now. Once that is figured out I will post a new thread to start the sign ups. Please don't PM me asking for details or to put you on the list. Once we get the details hammered out I will start taking sign ups. I know there is a LOT of interest in this and I know there are more people that want to attend than we could have in the first class so It's going to have to be first come first served. I'm thinking I will PM everyone who voted for Sacramento Area in the poll before I post the sign up thread to let them know it's going up and than just going first come first served from there. That's about the only way I can think of that would be fair.

-LG

Dragonaught
10-15-2009, 8:51 PM
Welcome to Calguns mmartins husband! Good to have you here.
Happy to be here

mexrunner
10-15-2009, 9:51 PM
once i get my stuff set back up (just moved) wouldn't mind showin some people mainly reload rifle but do pistol on a progressive to load everything from .380 to 50 dtc so wouldn't mind helpin people with what i know am in the far east of the ie