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Rob Roy
10-12-2009, 9:26 PM
Besides internet ammo sales ban, does it also prohibit the internet sales of magazines and speedloaders?

tenpercentfirearms
10-12-2009, 9:33 PM
That is how I read it. Ammunition is defined as magazines, clips, and speed loaders.

Rob Roy
10-12-2009, 9:36 PM
That is how I read it. Ammunition is defined as magazines, clips, and speed loaders.
Cannot understand why speedloaders are banned....:confused: Also, need a thumbprint for magazines too???

HondaMasterTech
10-12-2009, 9:37 PM
You've never shot a magazine or speed loader out of your gun before? They are dangerous! Think of the children!

devildog999
10-12-2009, 9:38 PM
That is how I read it. Ammunition is defined as magazines, clips, and speed loaders.

If you look at the wording, it has to be able to be shot... I'll find the wording and post it, give me a few

(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks.

The key being "capable of being fired from a firearm with deadly consequence," and magazines, clips, etc cannot be fired from a firearm

Librarian
10-12-2009, 9:48 PM
No, the law as written requires FTF sales of handgun ammunition only, SEC. 7. Section 12318 is added to the Penal Code, to read:
12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer
of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face
transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide
evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A
violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Bona fide evidence of identity" means a document issued by a
federal, state, county, or municipal government, or subdivision or
agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a motor vehicle
operator's license, state identification card, identification card
issued to a member of the Armed Forces, or other form of
identification that bears the name, date of birth, description, and
picture of the person.
(2) "Handgun ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in
subdivision (a) of Section 12323, but excluding ammunition designed
and intended to be used in an "antique firearm" as defined in Section
921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code. Handgun ammunition
does not include blanks.
(3) "Handgun ammunition vendor" has the same meaning as set forth
in Section 12060.


handgun ammo as defined in PC 12323 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/2.6/s12323).As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall apply:

(a)"Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles.

The bit with 12317 makes it a crime to sell those things to ineligible persons, just as 12316 makes it illegal for those ineligible persons to possess them.

It does create a problem for sellers to 'verify' that buyers are not ineligible - because there is no such thing as a background check for ammo purchases - and it seems likely that the 12317 'noise' that keeps catching people's eyes will contribute to out of state vendors abandoning CA sales. But it's already Federal law that it's illegal to sell to ineligible persons (18 USC 922 (d)
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) is a fugitive from justice;
(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));
(6) who [2] has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and
(B)
(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or
(9) has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
so CA's new law isn't anything they haven't already had to deal with.

Rob Roy
10-12-2009, 10:10 PM
No, the law as written requires FTF sales of handgun ammunition only,

handgun ammo as defined in PC 12323 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/2.6/s12323).

The bit with 12317 makes it a crime to sell those things to ineligible persons, just as 12316 makes it illegal for those ineligible persons to possess them.

It does create a problem for sellers to 'verify' that buyers are not ineligible - because there is no such thing as a background check for ammo purchases - and it seems likely that the 12317 'noise' that keeps catching people's eyes will contribute to out of state vendors abandoning CA sales. But it's already Federal law that it's illegal to sell to ineligible persons (18 USC 922 (d)
so CA's new law isn't anything they haven't already had to deal with.
If there is no background check, what's the point then...:confused: This is dumb!!!

nn3453
10-12-2009, 10:13 PM
That is how I read it. Ammunition is defined as magazines, clips, and speed loaders.

Not in the section that applies. I suggest that you read other threads. More importantly, read the specific sections (see posts by the Librarian).