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View Full Version : Don't whine like a bunch of............reload!!!


bubbapug1
10-12-2009, 10:08 PM
Yes, we got sold out, and the gov is a wuss...its not about public safety, its about holding your wetted finger into the political winds to see which way the voting public will cast their ballots....

But really guys...we may one day get another shot at this, but in the mean time learn how to reload. Its fun, its very safe, its easy, and its 1/2 the price or less of store bought ammo.

Pistol rounds are super easy to learn, and you will find you will learn more about your gun, your ammo, and your options...plus, no politician will lock you out of buying ammo.

gunsmith
10-12-2009, 10:10 PM
they didn't lern me no reloading when I wents to skool

five.five-six
10-12-2009, 10:11 PM
i reload .45acp for about $4.00 /box of 50 lead boolits, $7.00 for plated booleats

CalNRA
10-12-2009, 10:13 PM
what makes you think reloading will be economic, heck even possible, when everyone starts to reload and buy up your precious source of brass, bullet, and primers?

I distinctly remember reloaders talking about a primer shortage no too long ago. AM I mistaken?

bodger
10-12-2009, 10:16 PM
I remember reading about a primer shortage as well, and when they were finally available, more expensive than they had been.

Still, couldn't be any worse than the ammo.

Anyone have any recommendations as to where to learn the craft and where to get the gear?

I'd want .223, 9mm. .38 and .357. And also my 45LC cowboy loads.

HondaMasterTech
10-12-2009, 10:19 PM
If you have to reload, you need to work on your aim! ;)

cudakidd
10-12-2009, 10:21 PM
Because reloaders tend to buy in bulk since the base component is so much more affordable then retail ammo purchases..

Primer shortages are rare, the last one was 1994, 15 years ago. This current one was due to the hysteria that effected the entire shooting market last November. That has eased.

The big issue is that people wait for the worst possible time to decide to stock up. Now is NOT the time, Last year BEFORE the election was fine.

So I did, as did all my friends!!

And remember, since you can buy components out of state AFTER AB 962 takes effect, no need to panic...

The NRA offers a self study course in Reloading, also a basic Book such as is published by Lyman will start you out. A Lee "C" press kit can reload any caliber. And it comes with a basic guide. It is affordable too!

Arteel
10-12-2009, 10:24 PM
I cannot find SP primers anywhere!

CalNRA
10-12-2009, 10:25 PM
What makes you think the supply can handle the surge in reloaders? All the affordable components won't be so affordable when hundreds of thousands of gunnies in CA start to reload instead of tens of thousands.

SKSer
10-12-2009, 10:27 PM
Just bought all my reloading equipment about a month ago, cheap to get started, roughly $180. but to get started started, it nickle and dimes the hell out of you, $10 here $20 bucks there, for components and what not, but the good thing is once you get that, youll have enough for a decent ammount of rounds. You can look at it like you would be spending the money on the ammo anyway, so instead of 100 rounds of .223 for $45.00, $10.50 for 300 primers @$3.50 per hundred., $30.00 for a pound of powder (about 300 rounds), 300 .223 bullets for $36.00 @12.00 per hundred = $76.50 total for 300 rounds or $25.50 per 100. you really save some bucks when you cast your own bullets ( dont cast .223 but just using it as the example). $76.50-$36.00 =40.50 per 300 or $13.50 per hundred.

Its just about getting that ball rolling, once your rolling its just $10 bucks here $30 bucks there, but your reloading in the hundreds ,and when you reload expensive stuff like 30-06, or 303 british, thats when you see the real savings. .223 is still relatively cheap so the savings are not as great, but still very real. Sometimes it will be like a 6th or a 7th of the cost

M. Sage
10-12-2009, 10:27 PM
what makes you think reloading will be economic, heck even possible, when everyone starts to reload and buy up your precious source of brass, bullet, and primers?

I distinctly remember reloaders talking about a primer shortage no too long ago. AM I mistaken?

Primers, powder and projectiles... brass, too to a degree.

Powder is still retarded expensive, and I've had trouble finding reloading gear that isn't five hundred years old and meant for shotgun shells.

bubbapug1
10-12-2009, 10:31 PM
Well, this conversation really needs to be in the reloading section, but the best palce to learn how to reload is two pronged.

The best palce to watch reloading and learn how to set up a machine, like a dillon 550...is on you tube...there are TONs of good videos on youtube for reloading.

You ALSO need to read a book, an easy book, with big print. DO NOT buy Lee's book, it sucks, its propaganda for his stuff, and its also not very to the point. Buy the ABC's of reloading by Chevalier...its a great book, or you can get a nice used Lymans reloading manual which is also very good, but not as to the point, even though it really gets into the nitty gritty.

You need to read the book to understand the dangers of reloading, such as using bad brass, over loading powder, primer life, etc.

As to primers, you can always get primers if you order them on line, it just takes some time...and the gun shows always had primers for a decent price of $33.00 per thousand....and soon they will fall back to $25 - $27.00 a thousand.

All is not lost, but we need to circumvent the lunacy that is our elected representitives...and prepare to defend our rights and families...

And besides, reloading is FUN and RELAXING!!!


I remember reading about a primer shortage as well, and when they were finally available, more expensive than they had been.

Still, couldn't be any worse than the ammo.

Anyone have any recommendations as to where to learn the craft and where to get the gear?

I'd want .223, 9mm. .38 and .357. And also my 45LC cowboy loads.

CalNRA
10-12-2009, 10:34 PM
sigh, you reloading guys might feel good now, we'll see how it works out in a few months when every non-reloader starts to hoard reloading equipment when they realize they can't get ammo, just in case they reload later.

You guys are right, right now it's very economical to reload. And you are also right, not too many people reload. Should I present a supply-demand chart?

SKSer
10-12-2009, 10:36 PM
[QUOTE=cudakidd;3202948]
And remember, since you can buy components out of state AFTER AB 962 takes effect, no need to panic...
QUOTE]

a great point with this to is, the fear of going all the way out of the state to find a specific, or several specific calibers and then them not be in stock when you get there, or just not that many to make the trip a complete waste. Loading componets are more generic or universal per say. large rifle primers, small rifle primers, many different powders for the same application, the same bullet (projectile) I shoot out of my .303 british I can shoot out of the SKS etc.

bubbapug1
10-12-2009, 10:39 PM
"You guys are right, right now it's very economical to reload. And you are also right, not too many people reload. Should I present a supply-demand chart?"


I have a minor in economics but feel free to entertain us....and remember, as in any commodity as demand exceeds supply and prices increase (as do profits) suppliers of those commodities inevitably get greedy and increase production capacity...than demand slackens in hoarding situations, there is tremendous over capacity, and prices fall throw the floor...

Its human nature...look at AR prices in the firearms section!!! Lots of deals now, about 1/2 the price they sold for five months ago when I was stupid enough to buy two!!

SKSer
10-12-2009, 10:41 PM
Well, this conversation really needs to be in the reloading section, but the best palce to learn how to reload is two pronged.

The best palce to watch reloading and learn how to set up a machine, like a dillon 550...is on you tube...there are TONs of good videos on youtube for reloading.

You ALSO need to read a book, an easy book, with big print. DO NOT buy Lee's book, it sucks, its propaganda for his stuff, and its also not very to the point. Buy the ABC's of reloading by Chevalier...its a great book, or you can get a nice used Lymans reloading manual which is also very good, but not as to the point, even though it really gets into the nitty gritty.

You need to read the book to understand the dangers of reloading, such as using bad brass, over loading powder, primer life, etc.

As to primers, you can always get primers if you order them on line, it just takes some time...and the gun shows always had primers for a decent price of $33.00 per thousand....and soon they will fall back to $25 - $27.00 a thousand.

All is not lost, but we need to circumvent the lunacy that is our elected representitives...and prepare to defend our rights and families...

And besides, reloading is FUN and RELAXING!!!

I get all my componenets locally, at a higher cost I know, but its the whole stupid Hazmat fee of $20.00 that kills me, is there a way around this or do you just have to buy in extreme bulk to make it even out and still be cheaper?

SickofSoCal
10-12-2009, 10:44 PM
They want to ban reloading too.

You will be classified a terrorist under "illegal explosives manufacturing"


No joke.

CalNRA
10-12-2009, 10:49 PM
I have a minor in economics but feel free to entertain us....and remember, as in any commodity as demand exceeds supply and prices increase (as do profits) suppliers of those commodities inevitably get greedy and increase production capacity...than demand slackens in hoarding situations, there is tremendous over capacity, and prices fall throw the floor...


alright, a minor in economics.

anyhow, let's not get in a pissing match of who has a what degree, I have a few myself. But ask yourself this, how is the capacity increase working out for the ammo makers? And what happens when raw material suppliers get greedy and jack up the price?

What happens when they put restrictions on reloading equipment next? Because the out-of-state online and mail order vendors could get scared real easy with the "any projectile" language in 962. Seeing how they react to the OLL equipment, no one is safe in today's environment.

bubbapug1
10-12-2009, 10:51 PM
The way around the hazmet fee is to buy in bulk at the OC fair...pay $14.00 to get in, pay $5.00 for parking, and than have to walk a lot.

Just eat the hazmet fee...they bring the crap to your door...buy in bluk with some of your buddies. I'd do a deal with you but I already have 15,000 primers for small and large pistol, small rifle, and enough powder and brass to load up all of it should I find the time to do so.

bubbapug1
10-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Well I may be half educated but I forgot 99% of what I learned so no argument there. I was just saying you don't really need to show me a chart, I had to show my daughter hwo to read them in her micro econ class this past summer.

I do think there has been an increase in ammo production capacity, and when all hoarding activity stops, due to closets so full you need to buy a bigger house....than you will see a drop in prices.

You bring up many very valid concerns and arguments.

My point is, just like the bullet button, there is a way around any obstacle placed in the way of someone who wants to buy something...and if you don't believe me ask yourself, how hard is it for kids to buy booze and drugs in junior high?? Surely bullets and primers will be available to us even if they are outlawed all together....

or lets hope so...


alright, a minor in economics.

anyhow, let's not get in a pissing match of who has a what degree, I have a few myself. But ask yourself this, how is the capacity increase working out for the ammo makers?

What happens when they put restrictions on reloading equipment next? Because the out-of-state online and mail order vendors could get scared real easy with the "any projectile" language in 962. Seeing how they react to the OLL equipment, no one is safe in today's environment.

CalNRA
10-12-2009, 10:59 PM
look, I don't deny that reloading is economical, but sometimes I feel like you guys are too open and informative for your own good. :D

SKSer
10-12-2009, 10:59 PM
The way around the hazmet fee is to buy in bulk at the OC fair...pay $14.00 to get in, pay $5.00 for parking, and than have to walk a lot.

Just eat the hazmet fee...they bring the crap to your door...buy in bluk with some of your buddies. I'd do a deal with you but I already have 15,000 primers for small and large pistol, small rifle, and enough powder and brass to load up all of it should I find the time to do so.

sounds like going to the gunshow instead of hazmat will net you a buck, ha ha
so basically save up the funds to buy 5-6k in primers, and 20-30 pounds of powder and pay the 1 time $22.50, and instead of walk around, watch TV ;) and wait for it to come to your door.

kf6tac
10-12-2009, 11:01 PM
How much space does a reloading setup require? I'd be open to the option of reloading, but my current living quarters are rather... limited.

dchang0
10-12-2009, 11:03 PM
All these reloading estimates leave out one very high-cost component: the opportunity cost of the time spent reloading.

I did the calculations, and at my wages, reloading is nowhere near cost-effective for the time it takes. It is far cheaper for me to spend the time working at my business so that I can buy factory ammo in bulk.

Of course, if I have to, I'll go back into reloading happily, but only if it makes financial sense.

Value your time, guys. If you count your hourly wages, I'll bet most of you reloaders would find that it's not so economical after all.

jakemccoy
10-12-2009, 11:05 PM
If everybody reloads, many of the stores and ranges we all enjoy will be negatively impacted. At least some will go out of business. I can think of one store (Shooting Gallery in Vacaville) that went out of business about a year ago when the climate was not even as bad.

So, here's the plan: NOBODY should reload. Do it for the businesses. :)

Rob Roy
10-12-2009, 11:06 PM
If reloading picks up, they'll ban it too. I bet it's next on DeLeon's agenda.

SKSer
10-12-2009, 11:14 PM
All these reloading estimates leave out one very high-cost component: the opportunity cost of the time spent reloading.

I did the calculations, and at my wages, reloading is nowhere near cost-effective for the time it takes. It is far cheaper for me to spend the time working at my business so that I can buy factory ammo in bulk.

Of course, if I have to, I'll go back into reloading happily, but only if it makes financial sense.

Value your time, guys. If you count your hourly wages, I'll bet most of you reloaders would find that it's not so economical after all.

Dont take this as an attack, but I really hate this analogy, this is why so many americans are not do-it-your selfers any more and would just rather pay people to do things, charge it on the card, rack up debt. people are not getting paid 24/7. Its not like your taking time off work to reload. When your kid asks you to watch his baseball game do you say "how much you got, cause son at my current hourly wage...". When your taking a crap do you calculate how much it is going to cost you. When a buddy asks you if you wanna go shooting or help him work on his car..well you get the point. Please dont take this as an attack, but i think this thought process is complete garbage.

bubbapug1
10-12-2009, 11:16 PM
Well you can reload as you watch a football game or when you just need to relax. You can't always live life economically oriented. I also did the calculation and if you make $150.00 an hour and can load 300 rounds in one hour...thats some super expensive ammo no doubt, but you could say the same about your typing on Calguns, or having sex, or even eating. Reload for fun, and also for the fact that if you want to go shoot some steel at steel madness you don't have to search all over town like a junkie for a fix of 9mm...there is opportunity costs in that too, plus gas costs!

Reload because you embrace all things gun related and because its your hobby and we need and enjoy our hobbies too...but I do understand what you said and its a valid point.


All these reloading estimates leave out one very high-cost component: the opportunity cost of the time spent reloading.

I did the calculations, and at my wages, reloading is nowhere near cost-effective for the time it takes. It is far cheaper for me to spend the time working at my business so that I can buy factory ammo in bulk.

Of course, if I have to, I'll go back into reloading happily, but only if it makes financial sense.

Value your time, guys. If you count your hourly wages, I'll bet most of you reloaders would find that it's not so economical after all.

.454
10-12-2009, 11:22 PM
How much space does a reloading setup require? I'd be open to the option of reloading, but my current living quarters are rather... limited.

If lack of space is a problem, you can always start with a hand press (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp;jsessionid=DOJMAG2YBI4TZLAQBBKCCNNMCAEFKI WE?id=0032406215925a&type=product&cmCat=froogle&cm_ven=data_feed&cm_cat=froogle&cm_pla=1230301&cm_ite=0032406215925a&_requestid=234902)
The entire setup is small enough to fit in a shoe box. A friend of mine has one and he reloads .357Mag while sitting on his recliner and watching TV.

.454
10-12-2009, 11:25 PM
All these reloading estimates leave out one very high-cost component: the opportunity cost of the time spent reloading.

I did the calculations, and at my wages, reloading is nowhere near cost-effective for the time it takes. It is far cheaper for me to spend the time working at my business so that I can buy factory ammo in bulk.

Of course, if I have to, I'll go back into reloading happily, but only if it makes financial sense.

Value your time, guys. If you count your hourly wages, I'll bet most of you reloaders would find that it's not so economical after all.


Reloading isn't for everyone. If you don't have fun doing it then it probably isn't for you.

SickofSoCal
10-12-2009, 11:28 PM
Some of us just plain don't shoot enough to bother with reloading, and many of us do not have the space.

To everyone who does reload: I salute you.

chickenfried
10-12-2009, 11:28 PM
RELOADING IS DANGEROUS!!!!!!DON"T DO IT!!!

Merc1138
10-12-2009, 11:31 PM
A: I couldn't reload rimfire if I wanted to
B: There's absolutely no way I can reload in my apartment.

If your space and caliber choices allow you to reload, congratulations, you probably should. Not to mention, it'll leave more ammo for those of us who can't.

dchang0
10-12-2009, 11:34 PM
Dont take this as an attack, but I really hate this analogy, this is why so many americans are not do-it-your selfers any more and would just rather pay people to do things, charge it on the card, rack up debt. people are not getting paid 24/7. Its not like your taking time off work to reload. When your kid asks you to watch his baseball game do you say "how much you got, cause son at my current hourly wage...". When your taking a crap do you calculate how much it is going to cost you. When a buddy asks you if you wanna go shooting or help him work on his car..well you get the point. Please dont take this as an attack, but i think this thought process is complete garbage.

LOL--that's cool, man, I don't take it as an attack, but I don't think the thought process itself is garbage. That's how financially successful businesses and individuals think, and it clearly works for them. I am good friends with several millionaires and business owners, and they run the numbers, believe me. You would be surprised at how "cheap" millionaires can be--or maybe MUST be, in order to stay millionaires. I have seen multi-millionaires make decisions about the cost of water used in flushing the toilets in their bathrooms--to put it in perspective. These people could buy ammo by the shipping container--perhaps millions of rounds at a time.

What you're saying is definitely true--I too lament the decline of the DIY culture. After all, gun owners are ALL DIYers--we do our own self-defense instead of subcontracting it out to the cops or paid bodyguards. I used to love reloading as a fun activity. But I figured out that I could work ONE hour of overtime at time-and-a-half and buy (at the time) 300 brand new factory 9mm rounds, after taxes. Might as well work one extra hour overtime* per pay period and have my monthly ammo needs covered, and that's exactly what I did. Frees up a lot more time for shooting, by the way!

Your argument is based mainly on sentimentality and not cold, hard math. I'm not calling it garbage--sentimentality can be a powerful thing. Just look at how this nation banded together after 9/11 or how we are banding together now after AB962... But the numbers ALWAYS work, ALL the time, even as sentiment has worn off.

Ultimately, I think there are only three real reasons to reload:

1) Because you enjoy the actual process of reloading.
2) Because one can make much higher quality ammo than factory.
3) Some calibers are easily more economical to reload than to purchase, like .50 BMG

But the purely economical argument in favor of reloading always has that huge hole in it: opportunity cost of time spent reloading.


-----

* If you're lamenting the decline of American DIYers, why not lament the decline of the strong work ethic? Nowadays, people are just punching the clock exactly at 9am and exactly at 5pm. Guys like me who are willing to work overtime are having a ridiculously easy time getting ahead of these lazy bums. I was speaking with a Singapore businessman who had just opened up a branch of his business here in California. And he said, "I hate hiring American workers--they're so damned lazy. They don't want to do anything extra and leave work right at 5pm." So he hires Chinese workers overseas to do the bulk of the work--they'll work 18 hour days without complaint. That, I think, is the real reason for the decline of DIYers: laziness.

SgtWaggoner
10-12-2009, 11:35 PM
they didn't lern me no reloading when I wents to skool

wE wint to tha sam skool, i donts remembah lerning no reloadin'.

leitung
10-12-2009, 11:41 PM
If someone will teach me to reload, then maybe..

I am gonna get a kit anyway though

jakemccoy
10-12-2009, 11:46 PM
All these reloading estimates leave out one very high-cost component: the opportunity cost of the time spent reloading.

I did the calculations, and at my wages, reloading is nowhere near cost-effective for the time it takes. It is far cheaper for me to spend the time working at my business so that I can buy factory ammo in bulk.

Of course, if I have to, I'll go back into reloading happily, but only if it makes financial sense.

Value your time, guys. If you count your hourly wages, I'll bet most of you reloaders would find that it's not so economical after all.

I agree. I value my FREE time at $100/hour. In other words, if I'm doing something outside of work that I don't want to do, then I should be making or saving at least $100/hour. Otherwise, I'd rather pay somebody.

There are many things I'd like to do in my free time, including sleeping, browsing the Internet, picking my toes and having sex. There are many things I don't want to do in my free time, including re-roofing my house, installing a drip system and reloading ammo. For these things I don't want to do, I would like to make or save $100/hour. I just had a drip system installed in my backyard and connected to my automatic sprinkler system. It ran me about $600. The job would have taken me over 20 hours, from learning how to do it, to getting the supplies, to installing the system, to screwing up, to doing it over again. In my mind that's $2,000. So, any worker that comes to me and can do it for less than $2,000 will get the job.

The basic concept here is that my FREE time has a real, definable dollar value. My FREE time is worth quite a bit more than $0/hour, and quite a bit less than $1,000/hour. I have set the value at $100/hour, which seems about right. Some people don't understand this concept. It tends to be wealthy, busy people who do understand this concept. I mean no offense to anybody personally. It's just my observation. I could be wrong.

Here's the moral of the story: DON'T RELOAD BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ECONOMICALLY. :)

ivanimal
10-12-2009, 11:48 PM
I changed the title so we dont alienate anyone. Dont change it again.

chickenfried
10-12-2009, 11:48 PM
lol anyone remember the car wash thread that got deleted?
Some people don't understand this concept. It tends to be wealthy, busy people who do understand this concept...no offense to anybody.

bubbapug1
10-12-2009, 11:54 PM
[QUOTE=dchang0;3203408]LOL--that's cool, man, I don't take it as an attack, but I don't think the thought process itself is garbage. But the numbers ALWAYS work, ALL the time, even as sentiment has worn off.
QUOTE]

You speak the truth more than I think even you realize...life in itself is economics, and if your eye and mind aren't thinking in that direction..well, natures ways are not kind to the ignorant...

Solar power, electric cars, etc...they will all die on the vine because in the end, oil will be much cheaper way to go in our lifetime at least. Ditto for organic foods, if we all ae organic the food supply would shirnk 20%, spoilage increases, and soem people would be hard pressed to feed the family.

In the end the human world eventually revolves around economics.

Like Be graham said...In the short term the stock market is a voting machine, but in the long term, its a weighing machine.

dchang0
10-13-2009, 12:08 AM
life in itself is economics

Truer words were never spoken, and how eloquently stated!

Earlier when I said "Value your time," I didn't mean value as in calculate an hourly wage. I meant value as in TREASURE your time. jakemccoy is right on the money by valuing his free time at $100/hr. Our time is precious--God only gives us so many seconds on this earth. But we can earn more or less money during that time, depending on our skills and determination.

The wealthy DO understand this. Those millionaire friends of mine would much rather be driving around town in their $180K Bentley to soirees where the wine served is $1000/bottle and the dinner tab comes out to $10K in one night. They are living a life we can't even dream of because we're too busy wasting our time earning and saving at much lower rates. Really what they are doing is squeezing every bit of value out of every penny AND every SECOND of their lives. Meanwhile, we not-so-rich folk throw away hours trying to save a few bucks on ammo.

-----

Speaking of sex and hourly rates... How do you think Eliot Spitzer was able to afford that $10000/night call girl? It sure wasn't by spending an hour a night reloading while in front of the TV set to save on ammo.

maxmiller
10-13-2009, 12:22 AM
I have been looking everywhere for large pistol primers for the past few months...........no one has them in stock.

floogy
10-13-2009, 12:28 AM
If you really want to save money just spend your time on a forum going back and forth about reloading or not reloading. Internet is dirt cheap these days. Phew, that's a few seconds of my life i won't get back. Better not waste any more.

jakemccoy
10-13-2009, 12:40 AM
If you really want to save money just spend your time on a forum going back and forth about reloading or not reloading. Internet is dirt cheap these days. Phew, that's a few seconds of my life i won't get back. Better not waste any more.

LOL

Seriously though...posting here is what I want to do with my free time right now. I don't calculate the value of my free time when I'm doing something I want to do. For example, I don't calculate the value of my free time when I'm snowboarding. The calculation comes in when I'm doing something that I don't want to do in my free time. Reloading is not an acceptable alternative to posting on the Internet because reloading falls into the category of things I don't want to do. Thus, the value of my free time is compared to the amount of money I save reloading.

Believe it or not, everybody does a rough calculation of the value of their free time, whether they know it or not. For example, the majority of people could save some money if they carpool to work. On the other hand, carpooling is less convenient and takes a bit longer to go through the whole process. So, people value their free time, which has a definable value. They'd rather spend a little extra on gas and wear on their car in order to save their free time and to be free from the added hassle. For every situation, there is a definable point at which carpooling does not make economic sense.

SKSer
10-13-2009, 1:14 AM
LOL--that's cool, man, I don't take it as an attack, but I don't think the thought process itself is garbage. That's how financially successful businesses and individuals think, and it clearly works for them. I am good friends with several millionaires and business owners, and they run the numbers, believe me. You would be surprised at how "cheap" millionaires can be--or maybe MUST be, in order to stay millionaires. I have seen multi-millionaires make decisions about the cost of water used in flushing the toilets in their bathrooms--to put it in perspective. These people could buy ammo by the shipping container--perhaps millions of rounds at a time.

What you're saying is definitely true--I too lament the decline of the DIY culture. After all, gun owners are ALL DIYers--we do our own self-defense instead of subcontracting it out to the cops or paid bodyguards. I used to love reloading as a fun activity. But I figured out that I could work ONE hour of overtime at time-and-a-half and buy (at the time) 300 brand new factory 9mm rounds, after taxes. Might as well work one extra hour overtime* per pay period and have my monthly ammo needs covered, and that's exactly what I did. Frees up a lot more time for shooting, by the way!

Your argument is based mainly on sentimentality and not cold, hard math. I'm not calling it garbage--sentimentality can be a powerful thing. Just look at how this nation banded together after 9/11 or how we are banding together now after AB962... But the numbers ALWAYS work, ALL the time, even as sentiment has worn off.

Ultimately, I think there are only three real reasons to reload:

1) Because you enjoy the actual process of reloading.
2) Because one can make much higher quality ammo than factory.
3) Some calibers are easily more economical to reload than to purchase, like .50 BMG

But the purely economical argument in favor of reloading always has that huge hole in it: opportunity cost of time spent reloading.


-----

* If you're lamenting the decline of American DIYers, why not lament the decline of the strong work ethic? Nowadays, people are just punching the clock exactly at 9am and exactly at 5pm. Guys like me who are willing to work overtime are having a ridiculously easy time getting ahead of these lazy bums. I was speaking with a Singapore businessman who had just opened up a branch of his business here in California. And he said, "I hate hiring American workers--they're so damned lazy. They don't want to do anything extra and leave work right at 5pm." So he hires Chinese workers overseas to do the bulk of the work--they'll work 18 hour days without complaint. That, I think, is the real reason for the decline of DIYers: laziness.

I understand where you are coming from, and you do make some good points. But check this out. Next time my wife wants to have sex, im gonna tell her "its gonna cost you baby $17.25 an hour, but dont worry baby, thats only gonna amount to about .28 cents" :D

dchang0
10-13-2009, 1:18 AM
I understand where you are coming from, and you do make some good points. But check this out. Next time my wife wants to have sex, im gonna tell her "its gonna cost you baby $17.25 an hour, but dont worry baby, thats only gonna amount to about .28 cents" :D

LOL--check my quip about Eliot Spitzer and his $10000/night call girl... I wonder what she does that makes her worth $10000/night... Maybe her skill is in making quick-draw McGraws go all tantric and all, blasting out a little stream of white bullets like an M249 fed with forty miles of links!

swerv512
10-13-2009, 5:21 AM
reloading sucks... it gives me hands arthutus... it makes me wonna cry evry time i reload.:p

wellerjohn
10-13-2009, 6:32 AM
I cannot find SP primers anywhere!

Powder Valley will let you back order, I place a " large" order back in March and received it in June.:)

cudakidd
10-13-2009, 7:27 AM
Graf & Sons, Wideners, Coonies, google online, LOTS of bulk discount reloading suppliers...

I order all my stuff online, my buddies and I combine to get bulk prices and split hazmat costs.

A normal work bench like those sold at Home Depot will hold all of your stuff.

One good press can handle rifle and pistol. A budget single stage is the best way to start. Simple and easy to learn on one too.

I cast also, just as easy and fun. And again, minimal start up and big cost savings!

Everyone I shoot with, EVERYONE, reloads and has for years. If you are more then a casual plinker the cost savings are worth it.

As for scarcity, rationing, hoarding, etc. Plan ahead, have about a 5 year supply and then you can wait out the rare (and they are rare) panic times like now.

It's the same as prepping for an earthquake, economic downturn, etc. Be prepared!

ponderosa
10-13-2009, 9:24 AM
People actually watch TV while reloading??? :hide:

cudakidd
10-13-2009, 9:43 AM
some people do, we call them stumpy, lefty, gimpy, etc!

CAL.BAR
10-13-2009, 9:47 AM
what makes you think reloading will be economic, heck even possible, when everyone starts to reload and buy up your precious source of brass, bullet, and primers?

I distinctly remember reloaders talking about a primer shortage no too long ago. AM I mistaken?

exactly! How do people claim to reload .45 at $4.00 per box? Smelting their own lead? Most online retailers have .45 plated bullets at no less than .15 per. Not to mention brass, powder and primers (when you can find them) The reloading mfg's CANNOT handle the numbers if we all started reloading.

Milsurp Collector
10-13-2009, 11:08 AM
How much space does a reloading setup require? I'd be open to the option of reloading, but my current living quarters are rather... limited.

Some of us just plain don't shoot enough to bother with reloading, and many of us do not have the space.




B: There's absolutely no way I can reload in my apartment.



Actually, you can reload on your kitchen table. I got a stand for my reloading press at a gun show that allows me to reload anywhere. Here is a picture of most of my setup (I got a another trimmer, more dies, and another manual since I took that picture). I put everything out to show what I use, but I usually don't need everything out all at once, so it takes up even less space when I'm actually doing it:

http://i44.tinypic.com/snc9k2.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/15ycajl.jpg

People actually watch TV while reloading??? :hide:

While some of the reloading steps require close attention -- such as measuring powder, I weigh each individual powder charge -- other reloading steps, like depriming\resizing, bullet seating, and crimping, are somewhat mindless\repetitive after your dies are properly adjusted, like feeding a slot machine (the physical moves are very similar). With my setup I can do some steps while watching TV.

I love my Lee Turret press because I reload multiple types of rounds. It is very easy to switch between types of rounds by switching turrets. The dies stay in their turret so they keep their settings.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2j63438.jpg

Lee reloading equipment is also very reasonably priced.

The big problem since Nov. 2008 has been the supply of primers and powder. They have just been almost impossible to find and expensive when found. It has eased slightly the past couple of months.


All these reloading estimates leave out one very high-cost component: the opportunity cost of the time spent reloading.

Value your time, guys. If you count your hourly wages, I'll bet most of you reloaders would find that it's not so economical after all.

My dad taught me that you really can't put a dollar value on your free time, it's qualitatively different from the time you spend earning money. He said if he put a dollar value on his free time, he couldn't afford to sleep! :laugh:

lairdb
10-13-2009, 12:38 PM
Ultimately, I think there are only three real reasons to reload:

1) Because you enjoy the actual process of reloading.
2) Because one can make much higher quality ammo than factory.
3) Some calibers are easily more economical to reload than to purchase, like .50 BMG

But the purely economical argument in favor of reloading always has that huge hole in it: opportunity cost of time spent reloading.

(Vehemently agree with dchang0's general argument; economics is life. If that bugs you, begin by realizing that "economics" isn't about money. Economics is the science of scarcity. Anything that's not available in unlimited quantities (water, time, square footage, etc.) can be considered through an economic lens. Having said that, I'm going to un-tangent....)

I can't even make the economics equation work if I ignore the time. Perhaps it works for more exotic calibers, but I shoot garden-variety 9mm.

Brass: 1000 Starline brass: $129. Assume I get 5 uses out of them, that's $0.0258/round.
Bullets: 1000 Hornady 115gr TMJ: $133.99, that's $0.1339/round.
Powder: 8lb WW231 loads about 13000 rounds: $126.99 = $0.0098/round.
Primers: 1000 CCI SP: $29.95 = $0.0299/round.

Pure cost of materials, ignoring shipping fees (and HAZMAT) I'm already at $0.1995/round. Keep an eye (or a change tracker) on AmmoEngine (http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/9mm) and I can buy factory new for that price a few days a month; for a penny or two more, nearly every day.

Like I said, I can't get just the basic cost equation to work; what am I missing?

Add in hard costs:

Reloading equipment: figure about $600 for a decent Dillon-based setup,
about 10 square feet of workbench space, which I must "purchase" (economics!) from somewhere in my house by making room,
brass picking time and effort,
reloading time and effort


...and it seems nearly insurmountable; even if I figured each round was $0.02 cheaper by reloading, I have to reload 30,000 rounds just to pay off the Dillon.

cudakidd
10-13-2009, 2:13 PM
[
I can't even make the economics equation work if I ignore the time. Perhaps it works for more exotic calibers, but I shoot garden-variety 9mm.

Brass: 1000 Starline brass: $129. Assume I get 5 uses out of them, that's $0.0258/round.
Bullets: 1000 Hornady 115gr TMJ: $133.99, that's $0.1339/round.
Powder: 8lb WW231 loads about 13000 rounds: $126.99 = $0.0098/round.
Primers: 1000 CCI SP: $29.95 = $0.0299/round.

Pure cost of materials, ignoring shipping fees (and HAZMAT) I'm already at $0.1995/round. Keep an eye (or a change tracker) on AmmoEngine (http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/9mm) and I can buy factory new for that price a few days a month; for a penny or two more, nearly every day.

Like I said, I can't get just the basic cost equation to work; what am I missing?

Add in hard costs:

Reloading equipment: figure about $600 for a decent Dillon-based setup,
about 10 square feet of workbench space, which I must "purchase" (economics!) from somewhere in my house by making room,
brass picking time and effort,
reloading time and effort


...and it seems nearly insurmountable; even if I figured each round was $0.02 cheaper by reloading, I have to reload 30,000 rounds just to pay off the Dillon.[/QUOTE]


Well actually it depends on how much you plan to reload and for how long. Another big factor is the type of load you are looking for.

For example, I have been reloading for Cowboy action shooting for about 15 years. I shoot Black powder Cartridge or the equivalent (Cleanshot) for rifle, pistol and shotgun. Retail on this is not only limited in availability but very expensive ($25/box+)

So figure out shooting say, one match per month, 100 rounds+ per match, times 15 years. And again, I cast my own bullets for additional savings, and also get about 10-15 reloads per case, MINIMUM!

I also shoot Skeet, the 12, and 20 gauge loads I use are the equivalent of Winchester Featherlites at $7.50+ per box. I shoot every week, an average of 2 rounds per time, for the last say, 5 years. I plan to shoot till I can't see anymore (25 years plus?) I figure out about 5000 rounds per year...

I used to shoot Sporting clays on top of that, even more savings...

Reloading for me is about tailoring a load for a specific purpose, specific performance, hard to find loads and almost as an incedential for me, cost savings!

You guys that are arguing so much, simple, don't reload, pay retail. Then spend your time tying to chase down ammo at the high current rates! How much time is THAT costing you?:)

I know it works for me, I spend less and enjoy reloading as an additional benefit.

SKSer
10-13-2009, 2:35 PM
if you cast your own lead bullets, you save over half of that cost. .13 cents a round

.454
10-13-2009, 2:48 PM
Brass: 1000 Starline brass: $129. Assume I get 5 uses out of them, that's $0.0258/round.
Bullets: 1000 Hornady 115gr TMJ: $133.99, that's $0.1339/round.
Powder: 8lb WW231 loads about 13000 rounds: $126.99 = $0.0098/round.
Primers: 1000 CCI SP: $29.95 = $0.0299/round.

Pure cost of materials, ignoring shipping fees (and HAZMAT) I'm already at $0.1995/round. Keep an eye (or a change tracker) on AmmoEngine (http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/9mm) and I can buy factory new for that price a few days a month; for a penny or two more, nearly every day.

Like I said, I can't get just the basic cost equation to work; what am I missing?

Add in hard costs:

Reloading equipment: figure about $600 for a decent Dillon-based setup,
about 10 square feet of workbench space, which I must "purchase" (economics!) from somewhere in my house by making room,
brass picking time and effort,
reloading time and effort


...and it seems nearly insurmountable; even if I figured each round was $0.02 cheaper by reloading, I have to reload 30,000 rounds just to pay off the Dillon.

I cast my own boolits. Considering I pay for a bucket full of wheel weights only $50 (that's about 120 lb of lead), the cost on my reloads is something like $5-$6 per 50 rounds of .45
Considering the cheapest Wolf .45 ammo is running around $18 + shipping per box, I'd say my savings are pretty substantial and my reloading gear paid for itself many times over in only 3 years.
And let's be serious...nobody is forcing a beginner to pay $600 for a Dillon press. I can crank up the same ammo and just as fast as you do with a $75 Lee Turret press.

CalNRA
10-13-2009, 3:38 PM
I bet Wes from 10% just bought up the entire supply of primers for 6 months in advance after reading this thread for some serious gouging....:D









(the rumors of Wes gouging are strictly are jokes, please don't egg my house out of you fondness for 10%)

five.five-six
10-13-2009, 7:18 PM
what makes you think reloading will be economic, heck even possible, when everyone starts to reload and buy up your precious source of brass, bullet, and primers?

I distinctly remember reloaders talking about a primer shortage no too long ago. AM I mistaken?

I am down to my last 5,000 primers.... it's scary


will work for primers :lol:

five.five-six
10-13-2009, 7:31 PM
I use plated .45.. bout $0.11 pound of bulseye will get you well over 1500 rounds for $22 so that's bout $0.02 with lube and media. primers are $0.03
math tells me that works to $16/100 for premium hand loads including tax and shipping... and you are not shooting what ever crap you can find cheepest

and i always find a bit more brass than I shoot.

CAL.BAR
10-13-2009, 9:24 PM
if you cast your own lead bullets, you save over half of that cost. .13 cents a round

Yeah, great, and I'd save a fortune if I grew my own food and sewed my own clothes.

At a certain point it gets ridiculous!

Sinestr
10-13-2009, 9:28 PM
I think it's time to teach the kids how to reload, make it a family production line;)

pMcW
10-13-2009, 9:50 PM
If you have to reload, you need to work on your aim! ;)

Which requires ammo...

Mstrty
10-13-2009, 10:15 PM
reloading doesn't save you money you just shoot more.

Like my signature says.

Reloading is the most expensive way I know of to save money on ammo.

five.five-six
10-13-2009, 10:28 PM
reloading doesn't save you money you just
Reloading is the most expensive way I know of to save money on ammo.

^obviously not maried

bubbapug1
10-14-2009, 8:12 AM
I paid $200.00 for one of my dillons and $325.00 for the other.

I also wouldn't load on the kitchen table, especially if kids eat on it, lead residuals are bad news for everyone.

Berry sells 1000 45 acp bullets for $130.00

Primers are 3.3 cents

Powder is 2 cents a round

Thats a total of 18.3 cents a round or $18.30 for a box of 100..time takes 20 minutes usually.

So yes, its expenisive, but it beats driving all over town to find a box of ammo.

Glock22Fan
10-14-2009, 8:38 AM
All these reloading estimates leave out one very high-cost component: the opportunity cost of the time spent reloading.

I did the calculations, and at my wages, reloading is nowhere near cost-effective for the time it takes. It is far cheaper for me to spend the time working at my business so that I can buy factory ammo in bulk.

Of course, if I have to, I'll go back into reloading happily, but only if it makes financial sense.

Value your time, guys. If you count your hourly wages, I'll bet most of you reloaders would find that it's not so economical after all.

If you are reloading in time where you have turned down paying business (at a good rate), that's one thing. If you are reloading when otherwise you would be reading, watching TV etc. that's another.

For me, it isn't just the economy, it is getting the combo of bullet shape and weight, with the right powder charge.

I can reload inexpensive low recoil shots for fun, or try the most exotic bullets tuned to the best performance for my rifle. The choice is mine.

I also find it therapeutic.

rolo
10-14-2009, 8:41 AM
Yeah, great, and I'd save a fortune if I grew my own food and sewed my own clothes.

At a certain point it gets ridiculous!

Clothes are one thing that you can't do cheaper than Walmart, I've tried and it wasn't pretty.

CraigC
10-14-2009, 10:55 AM
just one problem.. NOBODY has primers in stock 'round here...

bomb_on_bus
10-14-2009, 11:21 AM
just one problem.. NOBODY has primers in stock 'round here...


I bet your going to see em up for sale on the interwebz towards christmas. Market analysis has showed that primers are going to be the next hot item for christmas. So long tickle me elmo, hello primers!

kapache
10-14-2009, 11:50 AM
Reloading is a awesome thing to do, but my concern is that what if did something wrong and my Gun Blows up on my face when shooting my own reloads.

Not only its dangerous, but at the same time I risk destroying my babies.

Kenpo Joe
10-14-2009, 12:01 PM
I just finished reading the bill this morning and I noticed this section:

(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does
not include blanks used in prop weapons.

The way I read it, buying bullets for reloading will require finger print, ID, etc. to purchase. Does anyone read this differently?

Back on mute. :cool:

Glock22Fan
10-14-2009, 12:16 PM
Reloading is a awesome thing to do, but my concern is that what if did something wrong and my Gun Blows up on my face when shooting my own reloads.

Not only its dangerous, but at the same time I risk destroying my babies.

Crossing the road is dangerous. Snow-boarding is dangerous. Riding a motorcycle is dangerous.

Reloading, like many activities, requires care, common sense, a modicum of intelligence, and due diligence.

You should also leave your ego somewhere else; you are not attempting to load the world's most powerful example of the genre, nor are you trying to prove that the authors of the various reloading manuals are a load of pu$$ies.

If you can't, or won't, provide these prerequisites, then you may indeed risk your babies.

If you can, then it is probably no more dangerous than many other activities.

Have you ever bought a bag of reloads at the range? How do you know that those guys were so much wiser than you?

The risk also depends on caliber. Cartridges like .38spl have far more space inside the brass than they need. It would be easy, if you were careless or under the influence, to overload (double charge) these. More modern cartridges (that don't have a black powder ancestry) are usually somewhat safer as a double charge should spill over.

jakemccoy
10-14-2009, 12:48 PM
Dude, you further discouraged me when you compared reloading to snowboarding. I fell about a thousand times before I could make it down the hill without falling. I also sprained my wrists, bruised my tailbone and stretched a shoulder ligament, and I never did anything too crazy. Those injuries are par for the course. What happens when you have an oopsie with reloading?

Here's the moral of the story: DON'T RELOAD BECAUSE, OTHERWISE, YOU'LL PROBABLY KILL YOURSELF.

M1A Rifleman
10-14-2009, 1:06 PM
what makes you think reloading will be economic, heck even possible, when everyone starts to reload and buy up your precious source of brass, bullet, and primers?

I distinctly remember reloaders talking about a primer shortage no too long ago. AM I mistaken?


No mistake, this has been the norm since last November 2008. Primers, powder, brass, and bullets are very difficult if not impossible to get. Sierra bullets in most 30 cal offerings are unavailable, unprimed bulk Federal Brass is a no such item, Nosler Brass is not available, on and on.

The other point not to gloss over is that relaoding components will be targeted next, and bills to do this were floated in the past.

M1A Rifleman
10-14-2009, 1:13 PM
Reloading is a awesome thing to do, but my concern is that what if did something wrong and my Gun Blows up on my face when shooting my own reloads.

Not only its dangerous, but at the same time I risk destroying my babies.

Interesting, you don't trust yourself to read and comprehend written directions from a reloading manual. If that is the case, you should have a bigger concern in handeling a gun, as you may not have understood the operation and safety manual. :rolleyes:

Glock22Fan
10-14-2009, 1:19 PM
Dude, you further discouraged me when you compared reloading to snowboarding. I fell about a thousand times before I could make it down the hill without falling. I also sprained my wrists, bruised my tailbone and stretched a shoulder ligament, and I never did anything too crazy. Those injuries are par for the course. What happens when you have an oopsie with reloading?

Here's the moral of the story: DON'T RELOAD BECAUSE, OTHERWISE, YOU'LL PROBABLY KILL YOURSELF.

I wasn't saying that reloading was as dangerous as snowboarding. Just pointing out that there were other ways to risk your babies.

Yes, if you are careless or stupid, you should not reload. If you are a typical person, you could probably name dozens of more dangerous pastimes.

There are a lot of reloaders. As far as I know, most of us have never suffered anything worse than a blister on the palm of the hand that drives the press.

Your statement "DON'T RELOAD BECAUSE, OTHERWISE, YOU'LL PROBABLY KILL YOURSELF." is, frankly, FUD (I could be more blunt, but Kestryl wouldn't like it)/

cudakidd
10-14-2009, 1:32 PM
Interesting thread pattern. People now chiming in (who don't reload) arguing with those that use reloaders about safety, costs etc...

Simple answer guys, DON'T RELOAD!!

For those of us that choose to reload we already know the advantages and costs savings. That's we we do it. So since you're not going to convince us not to, what is your point?

I have had no problems finding components at good prices. They are out there and the situation is improving at all levels. Is it PB (Pre-Obama)? No, but we had a perfect storm of circumstances, War industry needs, shrinking value of the dollar, Economic uncertainty, Recent legislation fears (real or imagined), etc. All of this effects market conditions...

Be patient, learn to reload on a small scale using basic presses and components. See if you like it and if so, then you can progress up to what ever level of reloading fits your needs.

kapache
10-14-2009, 3:53 PM
I don't mind reloading, actually I am willing to pay anyone that is willing to teach me the proper way.

M1A Rifleman
10-14-2009, 3:59 PM
I don't mind reloading, actually I am willing to pay anyone that is willing to teach me the proper way.

Can you read a cook book? Get a reloading manual, I suggest Sierra, and follow it. Do nothing that seems in appropriat or seems unsafe. Nothing difficult about it.

stphnman20
10-14-2009, 4:11 PM
I don't mind reloading, actually I am willing to pay anyone that is willing to teach me the proper way.
Its super easy.. I thought myself by reading books, asking questions and watching tutorials on youtube..

kapache
10-14-2009, 5:11 PM
Reading and watching videos is totally different from having someone with enough experience showing you the proper way.

This is just me, ill read more on how to do my own reloading.

five.five-six
10-14-2009, 9:13 PM
[QUOTE=Kenpo Joe;3211226]projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does
not include blanks used in prop weaponsQUOTE]

yea, caus no one has ever been killed by a blank


gawd, our legislator is stupid... would it be too much to ask that each of them prove this with a blank to the temple J/K

Meplat
10-15-2009, 12:19 AM
I got primers, I got brass, I got bullet moulds. Make my dAY.:43:

what makes you think reloading will be economic, heck even possible, when everyone starts to reload and buy up your precious source of brass, bullet, and primers?

I distinctly remember reloaders talking about a primer shortage no too long ago. AM I mistaken?

chunger
10-15-2009, 12:32 AM
How much space does a reloading setup require? I'd be open to the option of reloading, but my current living quarters are rather... limited.


My reloading setup has a footprint of about 2ft.x2ft. in my bedroom. I reload .45 ACP, 9mm, and .223 on a Dillon 550. A lot of people have multiple presses and hoards of bench space, but you can load in a relatively small space and have a setup that can "go away" when it's not being used. But, my wife is very tolerant of my hobbies. . . :)

If the price of a more educated and involved shooting population in California is an increase in demand and subsequent price of reloading components, I'm ok with that. A direct effect of people reloading more is the ability to shoot more (increased access to volume ammo), and people who shoot more typically become more skilled. That too is a major plus. In the end, we will consume roughly the same amount of basic components (whether they be in the form of fully assembled cartridges or un-assembled parts).

mmartin
10-15-2009, 12:55 AM
A direct effect of people reloading more is the ability to shoot more (increased access to volume ammo), and people who shoot more typically become more skilled. That too is a major plus. In the end, we will consume roughly the same amount of basic components (whether they be in the form of fully assembled cartridges or un-assembled parts).
if my hubby is any indicator, once you start reloading and realize how much more you can shoot for the same money, you will be consuming Much Larger Quantities of components... ;)
megan

chunger
10-15-2009, 1:14 AM
if my hubby is any indicator, once you start reloading and realize how much more you can shoot for the same money, you will be consuming Much Larger Quantities of components... ;)
megan

I guess you're right. My gut feeling though is that we will get a moderate and steady increase in reloaders, but not a massive influx. While reloading is not extremely complex and can be done by simply following the appropriate "recipes", it does require a bit of ramp-up and dedication that I feel most casual shooters will not undertake.

But yeah, I shoot probably more then 4x more ammo after reloading than before. . . and then there's the wife who shoots up even more once she figured out she has an increased supply :) A lot of fellow shooters are shocked when I tell them that we went to take a training class together, but it required 3000 rounds of .223 ammo. . . or she went to a clinic and needed 1000 rounds of 9mm. But, as a reloader, you can take those kinds of quantities in stride.

mmartin
10-15-2009, 1:27 AM
I guess you're right. My gut feeling though is that we will get a moderate and steady increase in reloaders, but not a massive influx.

the hubby talked to the folks at Dillon today, they've had a significant uptick in the number of presses sold to california. didn't ask him to quantifiy that, but we're clearly not the only ones thinking this way.

But yeah, I shoot probably more then 4x more ammo after reloading than before. . . and then there's the wife who shoots up even more once she figured out she has an increased supply :) A lot of fellow shooters are shocked when I tell them that we went to take a training class together, but it required 3000 rounds of .223 ammo. . . or she went to a clinic and needed 1000 rounds of 9mm. But, as a reloader, you can take those kinds of quantities in stride.

sounds like competition quantities...
megan

Meplat
10-15-2009, 3:08 PM
I can and have handloaded ammunition in a motel room. Everything needed including components was housed in a kit smaller than a brief case.

However if you get hooked your operation will expand to fit all available space.:D

rklute
10-15-2009, 4:17 PM
I just finished reading the bill this morning and I noticed this section:

(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does
not include blanks used in prop weapons.

The way I read it, buying bullets for reloading will require finger print, ID, etc. to purchase. Does anyone read this differently?

Back on mute. :cool:

Go have a look at the thread
AB962 changes to law. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231494)


You will see that the clause you are referring to has limited scope and only applies that section dealing with people who already can not legally own firearms - felons, the mentally disturbed ... .

M1A Rifleman
10-15-2009, 4:25 PM
Originally Posted by Kenpo Joe
I just finished reading the bill this morning and I noticed this section:

(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does
not include blanks used in prop weapons.

The way I read it, buying bullets for reloading will require finger print, ID, etc. to purchase. Does anyone read this differently?


I thought so also. However, text at the beginning of the bill refers you to another existing section of the code for the definition of handgun ammo, which does not include the commponents - such as bullets by themselves.

Kenpo Joe
10-16-2009, 9:46 AM
Go have a look at the thread
AB962 changes to law. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231494)


You will see that the clause you are referring to has limited scope and only applies that section dealing with people who already can not legally own firearms - felons, the mentally disturbed ... .

Thanks. I'm not good at reading legalese and I missed it. It's good to know since I reload everything I shoot except 22LR. I guess I can't order 22LR anymore after the law takes effect. It's a good thing that I can still go to the Cow Palace to buy a brick or two.

till44
10-16-2009, 9:53 AM
I'd reload but am in an apartment while attending school and have no room. Otherwise I would have started reloading years ago.

Sunwolf
10-16-2009, 1:29 PM
Reloading is a awesome thing to do, but my concern is that what if did something wrong and my Gun Blows up on my face when shooting my own reloads.

Not only its dangerous, but at the same time I risk destroying my babies.

In other words simple machinery are beyond your capabilities,if you can`t handle a pair of pliers or a socket wrench,yeah,you shouldn`t reload.

SKSer
10-16-2009, 2:05 PM
Yeah, great, and I'd save a fortune if I grew my own food and sewed my own clothes.

At a certain point it gets ridiculous!


There is nothing ridiculous about this, many, many people cast there own bullets. The equipment out there to do it is very reasonable. Most caliber molds are about 25.00 from Lee, you can get a lead smelting pot for about 30.00 from midway. then you can either buy all different type of lead alloys allready in ingots from Rotometals. Or you can hit up your local tire store for old wheel weights. I bring my tire store guys 3 pizzas once a month in exchange for a 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights. a 5 gallon bucket is 80 to 100 pounds of lead. Lets do the math here.

100 pounds of lead is 700,000 grains
700,000 grains is 5691 123 grain bullets

over 5500+ bullets for 20.00 bucks in pizza, thats .003 cents a round, now thats not ridiculous, that is a killer deal!!

4200 if you were loading .45

Milsurp Collector
10-16-2009, 5:58 PM
I'd reload but am in an apartment while attending school and have no room. Otherwise I would have started reloading years ago.

You don't need much room to reload. :)

http://i44.tinypic.com/snc9k2.jpg

dchang0
10-17-2009, 1:04 AM
You don't need much room to reload. :)

http://i44.tinypic.com/snc9k2.jpg

No kidding! I have reloaded with a single stage press bolted to a PULL-OUT CUTTING BOARD in my kitchen. We're talking about less than 2 square feet of surface... It wasn't as fast as a multistage, but it worked!

Brasspolisher
10-17-2009, 1:09 AM
I bring my tire store guys 3 pizzas once a month in exchange for a 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights.
.
.
.
over 5500+ bullets for 20.00 bucks in pizza,

SKSer -- where in the world do you get three pizzas for $20?!?!?! :43:

(Your post is actually really good news. I'm shopping for casting gear now, but haven't sourced the lead yet -- was wondering if there would be a wall of "We can't do that" down at the local Firestone store or Pep Boys...)

On the more general topic, I reload because:

1) I work in bits and bytes -- it's fun for me to (re)create a whole bunch of tangible, shiny "somethings" in a bucket.
2) I enjoy learning more about ballistics, metallurgy, etc. (yep, GEEK and proud of it).
3) It's way more fun to make a range trip to see how the 124-gr. bullets with 4.6 grains of AA#2 perform vs. the 4.4 loads than it is to just empty a WWB and go home.
4) I can post on the 'Ammo & Reloading' forum and know what I'm talking about. ;)
5) I can create things that don't exist in the factory world, such as civilized 7.62x54 rounds ("The Load" using Red Dot).
6) The self reliance factor of "I have all the equipment and supplies to make my own ammunition if need be" is a nice security blanket.
7) It may -- or may not be -- cheaper than factory ammo. Probably isn't 'worth it' in the calibers I shoot most. Don't care.

These are my cartridges.
There are many like them, but these are mine.


Be safe, shoot straight, and please remember we are ALL on the same side...

Fantasma
10-17-2009, 1:15 AM
I think it is time for me learn how to reload, good suggestion.

This will be my new endeavour....

bellson
10-26-2009, 7:31 PM
what makes you think reloading will be economic, heck even possible, when everyone starts to reload and buy up your precious source of brass, bullet, and primers?

I distinctly remember reloaders talking about a primer shortage no too long ago. AM I mistaken?

A while ago???? Try STILL GOING ON!!!! Just try to find Small Pistol Primers (or anything but shotgun and .50 BMG)....It is BAD!!!!! And thanks to the stupid tree-huggers, Lead Wheel Weights are now BANNED IN THIS STUPID STATE! So much for my "cheap" pistol shooting.

rklute
10-27-2009, 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by Kenpo Joe
I just finished reading the bill this morning and I noticed this section:

(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does
not include blanks used in prop weapons.

The way I read it, buying bullets for reloading will require finger print, ID, etc. to purchase. Does anyone read this differently?


I thought so also. However, text at the beginning of the bill refers you to another existing section of the code for the definition of handgun ammo, which does not include the commponents - such as bullets by themselves.


Please read the other threads on AB962. Have a look at
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231494

You will see that (1) that paragraph was already existing law, only the sentence about blanks was added, and (2) the clause (and a similar one farther on) ONLY applies to the specific subdivisions dealing with possession by or knowing transfer of ownership to persons forbidden to own or possess a firearm. The fact that these clauses specifically change the meaning 'ammunition' for the associated subdivisions implies that in the other subdivisions the term 'ammunition' does not include the unassembled component parts.

CGT80
11-03-2009, 11:45 PM
I know a number of people who think that reloading is not worth the time and money. They say that they could work and make x amount of dollars to pay for their ammo instead of loading it themselves. What if I already work full time and do not want to spend more hours doing a job that I don't really enjoy doing? What if I already have plans for the money from my job? When I reload, I use free time that would be spent on the computer, watching tv, going out, etc. For me, I would rather take that time to reload, for all of the benefits listed in other posts, than to do more of the same work that I do all week long. Some people only want to work so many hours before they are tired of it, and others have a limit of how many they are allowed to work. By reloading, the money that I spend goes further.

I value my time, so I spend it how I see fit. I do realize that some people value their time differently. For some people it make more sense to buy factory. I don't blame them. Sometimes I even have reasons to buy factory ammo.

I have managed to buy components and 22lr ammo at reasonable prices. It does however take a bit of effort and patience.

My dad's favorite line is "where there's a will, there's a way." I tend to agree most of the time.

mikehaas
11-04-2009, 4:34 AM
Regardless of whatever flavor of gun control the anal, anti-freedom types can dream up, EVERYONE should reload.

http://ammoguide.com/gfx/aibanner.gif (http://AmmoGuide.com)

http://ammoguide.com/gfx/web/joinme/over20000trans.gif (http://AmmoGuide.com)

...but then, I may be slightly biased... :rolleyes:

Fire in the Hole
11-04-2009, 7:27 AM
I got into reloading a year and a half ago. I invested about a grand into all the RCBS presses, dies, and accessories. The problem is that with the powder and primer shortage, I'm shut down. After exhausting local stores, I drove to Reno. Checked Silver State, Cabela's, Bass Pro Shop, Scheels, Sportsman Warehouse, and about 3 other stores. Also the Big Gun Show. I couldn't find any primers, and could not find the powder I needed. I tried 6 recommended on line sources, only to get the "OUT OF STOCK" message after I clicked the purchase button. I Finally got the powder I needed from Cabela's after a 6 month back order. I'm now on my 9th month of back order for large rifle primers, and still waiting at my bench sighing.

cudakidd
11-04-2009, 8:06 AM
Graf and son, Wideners, Midsouth, Coonies all been tried?

Wildkow
11-04-2009, 10:29 AM
Better get your stuff and learn how to reload now before Obama allows Iran to have the bomb and they lob a couple EMP nukes our way!

Just saying . . .

BTW it's when not if . . .

Wildow

Milsurp Collector
11-04-2009, 10:37 AM
I got into reloading a year and a half ago. I invested about a grand into all the RCBS presses, dies, and accessories. The problem is that with the powder and primer shortage, I'm shut down. After exhausting local stores, I drove to Reno. Checked Silver State, Cabela's, Bass Pro Shop, Scheels, Sportsman Warehouse, and about 3 other stores. Also the Big Gun Show. I couldn't find any primers, and could not find the powder I needed. I tried 6 recommended on line sources, only to get the "OUT OF STOCK" message after I clicked the purchase button. I Finally got the powder I needed from Cabela's after a 6 month back order. I'm now on my 9th month of back order for large rifle primers, and still waiting at my bench sighing.

I've been able to buy powder online, but I have had a lot more luck getting primers at local gun stores. Check all the small guns stores in your area. Guns shows will have them too, but at inflated prices.

a1c
11-04-2009, 11:43 AM
I might be getting into it for .303 Brit or 7.5 French. For .223 or 54 Russian, I don't think it'd be worth it, except for custom loads.

But at this point the equipment has gotten so expensive and hard to find, I don't think I'll be getting into it unless I can find the right tools and the right workshop easily.

Mayhem
11-04-2009, 11:43 AM
Yes, we got sold out, and the gov is a wuss...its not about public safety, its about holding your wetted finger into the political winds to see which way the voting public will cast their ballots....

But really guys...we may one day get another shot at this, but in the mean time learn how to reload. Its fun, its very safe, its easy, and its 1/2 the price or less of store bought ammo.

Pistol rounds are super easy to learn, and you will find you will learn more about your gun, your ammo, and your options...plus, no politician will lock you out of buying ammo.

Umm thats good and all, But I would like to point out a few issues with this idea of yours that every one should reload.

1) If every law abiding gun owner in California reloaded we would see far far worse massive shortages of reloading supplies the likes no one has ever seen.

2) It is not legally advisable to use reloaded ammunition for self defense. Reloaded ammunition could be turned against you in a self defense case as malicious intent to maim or kill by manufacturing a deadly round (Ya I know it sounds stupid but we are taking about tree hugging, bunny loving, criminal codling liberals) and it it will most likely be used against you in any civil litigation. Some self defense loads are very hard if not impossible to get without mail/internet orders. Like Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, and Cor-Bon brand ammunition. Then there are cartridge calibers that are also hard to find ammunition for like 10mm. If some one lives in a very low populated area they may find them selfs having to travel up to and beyond a hundred miles to get ammunition and even further to get hard to find ammunition. For some like disabled persons this may be out of the question. There is one person on these forums already having issues because the only San Fran gun shop is moving out of the City.

3) When ab962 will fail to reduce crime or handgun violence because it cannot stop a known prohibited person from walking into a store and purchasing handgun ammunition. ab962 can only prosecute the criminal after the fact IF some one actually checks the sales records (Unlikely) which can take up place up to five years later (that along time for a criminal to commit a crime with their ill gotten ammo) After 5 years the records can be destroyed with no one ever checking the records. Thats if a Criminal doesn't use fake ID which would require them to go by the thumb print which in itself is expensive and unlikely to be checked. Not to mention a prohibited person will have simple work arounds like getting a non prohibited person to purchase ammo for them.

As ab962 fails the Liberal tree hugging bunny loving criminal codling liberals will call for harsher restrictions as there is no way they will admit that gun control does not work. Harsher restrictions will be imposed such as ammunition sale limits, Mandatory back ground checks and waiting periods for back ground checks to clear. PtP transfers of ammunition like we have with long guns just to give some one a box of 50 rounds of ammunition. Special permits required to purchase or posses more them 50 rounds of hand gun ammunition. Some of this was in the original language of ab962. They would rather resort to serialized registered microstampled ammunition at the cost of law abiding gun owners then admit their misguided misinformed showboat attempts to curb crime failed.

For most of us The whine about ab962 isn't about it's current effects as most of us couldn't give a crap about showing ID and having to leave a thumb print to get ammo. However the existing gripe is the restrictions on the accessibility of ammunition such as being able to buy cheap bulk ammunition or being able to get hard to find ammunition. The nightmare that ab962 reighns in is future restrictions we have already seen this time and time again with existign laws like AW restrictions and the so called "Safe Gun list" both expanded upon as back door gun banning.

We all know AW restrictions aren't about military style civilian firearms being more dangerous then standard sporting non-AW style rifles in the same chambering. Its about getting one step closer to banning Semi-auto's and then all firearms.

The safe gun list is a Way to back door ban Hand Guns specifically auto loaders. First We have the drop test ... no problem sounds reasonable. But then we get Magazine disconnect safety and chamber load indicator requirements added. Now if a firearm manufacturer wants to sell a new gun design or even an existing firearm design with slight changes it has to incorporate these two requirements. This almost guarantees very few new firearms designs will get sold to civilians in California. Now we have Micro stamping a technology even some anti's agree is enviable. There is also the problem that for a tested handgun to stay on the list a manufacturer will have to periodically pay to keep that firearm on the list and only the manufacturer can pay. If a design is discontinued or modified the manufacturer will probably stop paying to keep the original design on the list even if there is still a ready supply of new handguns under the original design on the market for sale. Simply put the safe handgun list is used to ban handguns in California.

So why ab962 is a pain in our butts the real damage is the future expansion of ab962 leading to further restrictions any intelligent gun enthusiast can see heading our way.

Milsurp Collector
11-04-2009, 3:32 PM
I might be getting into it for .303 Brit or 7.5 French. For .223 or 54 Russian, I don't think it'd be worth it, except for custom loads.

But at this point the equipment has gotten so expensive and hard to find, I don't think I'll be getting into it unless I can find the right tools and the right workshop easily.

$110 for a kit http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=622290

$30 for some dies http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=674475

Add primer, powder, and bullets and you're ready to start. ;)

xrMike
11-04-2009, 3:58 PM
Nobody who reloads counts his time in the cost-benefit analysis. If we did, it wouldn't make much sense at all.

"But my time is worth too much to reload!" is just an excuse that some people use to justify to themselves why they'll always be a diddler, a dilettante, and a dabbler of the shooting arts, rather than a true enthusiast.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. As long as you don't try to kid yourself that you're just too "wealthy", or "hard-working", or some such thing. Gimme a break! :D

a1c
11-04-2009, 4:46 PM
$110 for a kit http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=622290

$30 for some dies http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=674475

Add primer, powder, and bullets and you're ready to start. ;)

Thanks, I'll look into it... again... although I've been told by a couple of people to avoid Lee... Or is it just brand bashing?

pdq_wizzard
11-04-2009, 5:23 PM
Thanks, I'll look into it... again... although I've been told by a couple of people to avoid Lee... Or is it just brand bashing?

get a Lee and try reloading (you can get back the $$ if you sell it for just about what you paid for it) if you like it you will more than likely still want a single stage press. then you can get something better / faster for the bulk stuff. just my $0.02

Milsurp Collector
11-04-2009, 6:34 PM
Or is it just brand bashing?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but get a broader sample of opinions before drawing a conclusion. I find the user reviews of products on http://www.midwayusa.com/ to be very enlightening. Read all of the reviews of that kit I recommended (rated 4.5 out of 5 stars), and read all of the reviews of competing products.

Someone posted that most of the reviews of most products seemed very positive, and therefore they were suspicious. Actually, it means that there are a lot of good products out there, at all price levels, so they should be reassured. However, when a product is sub-par users are not shy about saying so. Read the reviews on these products
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=781073
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=419297

I have equipment made by several manufacturers, and I'm happy with all of it. I use a Lee Turret Press I got in the 1980s because I liked the innovative design, and I am still using it.

mikehaas
11-04-2009, 8:11 PM
One can save a lot of money with reloading PLUS end up with ammunition that is sized "just right" for your chamber and tailored just for your firearm. When reloading for accuracy, one has a wide selection of precision bullets and weights that just don't come in loaded ammo. One can increment their charge by .1 or .2 grains at a time and look for "sweet spots" (being ever watchful for signs of over-pressure). And it's a ton o' fun.

AmmoGuide has an online Reloading Cost Calculator that is free for all visitors. (If you don't have a free AmmoGuide account and don't want to create one, you can press "Enter as Demo" on the login screen for this tool.)
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/costcalc.cgi

Here's an example:
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/web/joinme/costcalc.gif (http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/costcalc.cgi)

If you're not a reloader, you can find the prices of components in ads, online, at the gun store, etc.

Table Rock Arms
11-04-2009, 8:22 PM
i reload .45acp for about $4.00 /box of 50 lead boolits, $7.00 for plated booleats

Where are you getting supplies that cheap?

cudakidd
11-04-2009, 8:31 PM
Well for lead bullets, I cast...I suspect many do...

Cases are reuseable, powder is bought in bulk (8 pound keg of Winchester 231 for me) Primers at 5000 per sleeve...

jakemccoy
11-07-2009, 6:59 PM
For all those claiming they save so much from reloading, I will gladly buy your reloaded ammo at the rate of comparable practice ammo. However, you must live by me so that I can pick it up and not waste money on shipping. The terms are negotiable.

=====

It doesn't matter how wealthy I am. The point is that I have a limited amount of time on earth. So, I have a real value on my free time. Everybody else has a value on their free time too, but I have gone through the trouble to figure out a dollar amount for the value. Reloading falls into the category of things I don't want to do. Reloading is not worth me spending my free time on it for the amount of savings achieved. Here's the equation:

(Value of free time)/(Time to reload) is much greater than (Savings from reload)/(Time to reload).

The ONLY reason for me to reload would be to save money because, again, I don't have any desire to reload. I'd rather practice my piano, read a book, play with my girlfriend or pick my toes. Those are things I want to do in my free time. You can reload, and I'll buy your reloaded ammo if it's any good.

formerTexan
11-09-2009, 8:06 PM
I would avoid the Lee kit. I got one, and here's why I DON'T recommend it for others getting into reloading:
1. The powder measure is sub-par for finer powders, it leaks powder no matter what you do
2. The scale is not useful if you don't like waiting minutes for it to settle
3. The press mounted primer feed is not useful to ME, *I* found a hand primer much easier to use and gauge if something is right or not. Very important unless you like primers going off in your press (or near your hand).

Since I've bought the kit and some Lee dies, I've bought a electronic scale, a RCBS hand priming tool, and a RCBS Uniflow powder measure. The Lee press is really the only good thing in the kit, and you can get that by itself for $25 online.

Here is the scale I bought, accurate to 0.02 grains (most electronic scales sold as powder scales are only 0.1 grain, and that can sometimes be a bit too much leeway for pistol loads):
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/jennings-jscale-mack-20.aspx

Here's cost run, before shipping, prices found through google shopping:
Press $25
Uniflow $75
Lee Dies $26 and up
RCBS Hand Priming tool 90200 $33
Scale w/power adapter $75
------
$234 before shipping

You can get away with not having a tumbler/media separator by washing your brass in hot water (don't laugh, I've watched some reloading vids and it works). But a tumbler is about $50, and you can get by without using a separator by using a coarse colander, or the lid of the tumbler also acts as a sieve, like on a Lyman tumbler:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/includes/img/lyman/tumblers/turbo_twin.jpg

otteray
11-09-2009, 9:48 PM
For all those claiming they save so much from reloading, I will gladly buy your reloaded ammo at the rate of comparable practice ammo. However, you must live by me so that I can pick it up and not waste money on shipping. The terms are negotiable.

=====

It doesn't matter how wealthy I am. The point is that I have a limited amount of time on earth. So, I have a real value on my free time. Everybody else has a value on their free time too, but I have gone through the trouble to figure out a dollar amount for the value. Reloading falls into the category of things I don't want to do. Reloading is not worth me spending my free time on it for the amount of savings achieved. Here's the equation:

(Value of free time)/(Time to reload) is much greater than (Savings from reload)/(Time to reload).

The ONLY reason for me to reload would be to save money because, again, I don't have any desire to reload. I'd rather practice my piano, read a book, play with my girlfriend or pick my toes. Those are things I want to do in my free time. You can reload, and I'll buy your reloaded ammo if it's any good.

Jeez.
A reloader hater with a wound-up personality.
Go figure why.
I find that the time spent reloading is sometimes challenging (load development) and is relaxing and rewarding, not wasted.
My stuff is not for sale anyway.

chickenfried
11-09-2009, 10:17 PM
I didn't hear about this aspect of reloading before I started. I find it very relaxing.

I find that the time spent reloading is .....and is relaxing

freonr22
11-09-2009, 10:42 PM
Jeez.
A reloader hater with a wound-up personality.
Go figure why.
I find that the time spent reloading is sometimes challenging (load development) and is relaxing and rewarding, not wasted.
My stuff is not for sale anyway.


Well Otteray, everyone has their own piano, and own toes to pick, I and having fun myself reloading, but it may not be for everybody.

cudakidd
11-10-2009, 6:10 AM
For all those claiming they save so much from reloading, I will gladly buy your reloaded ammo at the rate of comparable practice ammo. However, you must live by me so that I can pick it up and not waste money on shipping. The terms are negotiable.

=====

It doesn't matter how wealthy I am. The point is that I have a limited amount of time on earth. So, I have a real value on my free time. Everybody else has a value on their free time too, but I have gone through the trouble to figure out a dollar amount for the value. Reloading falls into the category of things I don't want to do. Reloading is not worth me spending my free time on it for the amount of savings achieved. Here's the equation:

(Value of free time)/(Time to reload) is much greater than (Savings from reload)/(Time to reload).

The ONLY reason for me to reload would be to save money because, again, I don't have any desire to reload. I'd rather practice my piano, read a book, play with my girlfriend or pick my toes. Those are things I want to do in my free time. You can reload, and I'll buy your reloaded ammo if it's any good.

I know the value of my time. As many have posted they enjoy reloading. Rather then post snotty comments about NOT reloading, go ahead and continue paying full retail if you can find ammo and just leave us alone?

jakemccoy
11-10-2009, 5:35 PM
I can respect someone telling me they enjoy reloading, but I haven't been addressing you guys. More imortantly, this thread is not even about you. Read the original post.

My issue is with people who say reloading is about saving money. If it's about saving money, then once again I will buy quality reloaded ammo at the regular commercial rate. Nobody has yet sent me a message to take me up on my offer. I've just been getting emotional, irrelevant responses from people, as if reloading is their newborn child. It must not be much of a savings, if at all. It would be nice if people would just be honest instead of trying to sound cool like they're on to something. I can't respect that.

chickenfried
11-10-2009, 5:37 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=100769
then once again I will buy your ammo at the regular commercial rate.

freonr22
11-10-2009, 6:02 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23312&d=1242419968

It may take 2000-4000-6000 rounds depending on what you reload to pay your equipment off. for .223 I save 20c/round so my payback is 5k rounds, my nephew for hs 300 win mag saves about $1/round so his payback is 500 rounds because he has less in his equipment.
and then My equipment is paid for

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2484140

otteray
11-10-2009, 8:49 PM
I've never done the math because it is obvious that for myself it is far cheaper.
A box of 500 .45 cast 230 gr lead bullets cost a lot; I make 500 in an hour and a half or so with a Lee gang mould. No sizing necessary, then, an hour maybe more reloading them on a progressive press.
Now, I do this in my spare time, as a hobby, so I don't bother breaking it down into a time lost/ money lost formula.
My obsolete cartridge loads require much more time and attention.
I do factor in the amount of beer, cigars and fine aged scotch that were not consumed during the alcohol & smoke free reloading session and I seem to be well ahead in cash not spent when all is said and done.
I guess that, all in all, if your spare hobby time is worth more than the reloading time required and it is all about saving money, not about supreme quality and perfection, why bother?
As to selling/buying reloads; not a good idea at all.
No flaming intent here, just friendly conversation.
Simply put and in agreement with what freonr22 said above; what works for some may not suit others when it comes to ammo needs or requirements.

cudakidd
11-10-2009, 10:08 PM
I can respect someone telling me they enjoy reloading, but I haven't been addressing you guys. More imortantly, this thread is not even about you. Read the original post.

My issue is with people who say reloading is about saving money. If it's about saving money, then once again I will buy quality reloaded ammo at the regular commercial rate. Nobody has yet sent me a message to take me up on my offer. I've just been getting emotional, irrelevant responses from people, as if reloading is their newborn child. It must not be much of a savings, if at all. It would be nice if people would just be honest instead of trying to sound cool like they're on to something. I can't respect that.

Try finding a box of Cowboy action shooting caliber in say, 44-40 black powder...go ahead, we can wait! Now post the web site and price IF you can find ANY. Now I can reload for that (if I chose to) for about 25% of the cost.

I shoot Cowboy action Shooting, Black powder class, 12 gauge and 38 special. My wife shoots 32 H&R magnum, 32 S&W short. Do a retail search and try to find ANY for sale. So cost analysis is more then dollars and cents or time spent, it's also availability.

Or I can reload for 410 gauge for about 1/3 of the standard $10/box of 25 price. If I shoot skeet every week (which I do) the cost savings really adds up fast.

And you keep missing the point and offering to buy at commercial rates. If you can't find it or the cost is prohibitive at retail, why should we help you?

And again, you don't have to reload, don't believe those of us with years of experience (I've been cowboy shooting since 94) we KNOW we save money and have access to loads and ammo types otherwise unavailable.

Continue to argue, we will continue to reload, save money and have ready ammo in calibers and loads of OUR choosing at all times...

Meplat
11-11-2009, 3:39 PM
I might sell you cast bullets, but probably not, because more work goes into them than they are worth if you also lube and size them. I will not sell you my handloads because it is not legale. But I will give them to you if it ever gets to the point that we are having to cover one another's six.

I enjoy casting bullets, but I hate running the lubersizer. So, I understand where you are coming from. But I also choose to sit on enough #2 alloy to cast enough bullets to fight a small war; Why? because I think it prudent to have the skill knowledge and wherewithal, just in case.

I think it would behove anyone who shoots and values their freedom to learn to handload and store back a few components, just in case.;)





I can respect someone telling me they enjoy reloading, but I haven't been addressing you guys. More imortantly, this thread is not even about you. Read the original post.

My issue is with people who say reloading is about saving money. If it's about saving money, then once again I will buy quality reloaded ammo at the regular commercial rate. Nobody has yet sent me a message to take me up on my offer. I've just been getting emotional, irrelevant responses from people, as if reloading is their newborn child. It must not be much of a savings, if at all. It would be nice if people would just be honest instead of trying to sound cool like they're on to something. I can't respect that.

chickenfried
11-11-2009, 3:54 PM
That spreadsheet put me in such a good mood. here's how much my first 5000 rounds of .45 will cost me. But that's only because a friend gave me the primers and I've saved the brass from all the factory rounds I shot.
Batch Cost = $498.00

Batch Cost per Round = $0.100
Batch Cost per 50 Rounds = $4.98

freonr22
11-11-2009, 5:23 PM
if anyone wants that spread sheet im happy to email them its excel, so I cant post here. maybe some one could put it up on google. I dont know how, but I believe there is a way

Wildkow
11-12-2009, 2:14 AM
I can respect someone telling me they enjoy reloading, but I haven't been addressing you guys. More imortantly, this thread is not even about you. Read the original post.

My issue is with people who say reloading is about saving money. If it's about saving money, then once again I will buy quality reloaded ammo at the regular commercial rate. Nobody has yet sent me a message to take me up on my offer. I've just been getting emotional, irrelevant responses from people, as if reloading is their newborn child. It must not be much of a savings, if at all. It would be nice if people would just be honest instead of trying to sound cool like they're on to something. I can't respect that.

Hey Jake where are you located? I'm in the Fresno, CA area and I'd be happy to load some rounds for you in different configurations if you're interested in shooting something different than store bought stuff. :D Don't know about commercial sales to you or the legality of selling batches of ammo but if you would like to try some "special" stuff tailored for your guns I'll see what I can do. :D



Wildkow

p.s. it's a fact, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. :p

otteray
11-13-2009, 6:30 PM
Here is a cost calculator

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

hill billy
11-13-2009, 8:17 PM
I think it would behove anyone who shoots and values their freedom to learn to handload and store back a few components, just in case.;)

This is what it really boils down to, in the end. I save a LOT of money, but that isn't necessarily the point.

Meplat
11-14-2009, 8:11 PM
BTW, you can make powder, and you can make primers from strike anywhere matches. You can make bullets from things other than lead, and cases are everywhere.:43:

Sheep know how to buy. Free men know how to build:

This is what it really boils down to, in the end. I save a LOT of money, but that isn't necessarily the point.