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locosway
10-12-2009, 9:36 PM
So, I was watching "DEA" tonight on A&E and they did a bust on a house and the person there called their supplier.

So, supplier shows up in their car and the cops take him down with his friend who's also in the car. They did a 40 minute search on the car, and found nothing at all. They did a detailed (not strip) search of all persons involved and found nothing. The agents told everyone if they didn't confess to where the drugs were they would be taken down and cavity searched.

So, my question is (I'm not siding with criminals), when did the DEA cross the line here if at all? I see it as anyone could have been caught up in this guilty or not. I understand the DEA wants drugs off the street, and that's there job. But, a 40 minute search of this persons car and then their persons seems to be a bit much, especially since this person was not named in the original search warrant.

Dr Rockso
10-12-2009, 9:54 PM
My understanding is that police have almost unhindered ability to lie during an encounter, so it's entirely possible that the threat of a cavity search was completely empty. As far as searching the vehicle I'm guessing it falls under probable cause based on the call from the original suspects.

locosway
10-12-2009, 9:55 PM
My understanding is that police have almost unhindered ability to lie during an encounter, so it's entirely possible that the threat of a cavity search was completely empty. As far as searching the vehicle I'm guessing it falls under probable cause based on the call from the original suspects.

They hauled the guys off to the station to get a warrant.

technique
10-12-2009, 9:58 PM
They hauled the guys off to the station to get a warrant.

Well if the guys were smart they would have crapped their pants right there...would have proved they had nothing, and ended up in a long smelly ride to the station....:D

Josh3239
10-12-2009, 10:03 PM
They had probable cause to search the car and the suspects so a warrant is not necessary. Also, them making an arrest alone means they don't need a warrant. Because of probable cause and the suspects being under arrest they can absolutely take someone to the station to perform a cavity search, after all they aren't going to do it on the street.

locosway
10-12-2009, 10:05 PM
They had probable cause to search the car and the suspects so a warrant is not necessary. Also, them making an arrest alone means they don't need a warrant. Because of probable cause and the suspects being under arrest they can absolutely take someone to the station to perform a cavity search, after all they aren't going to do it on the street.

What did they have to arrest them on? There was nothing found, hence no crime commited. I understand tossing their car and their persons as they did have PC. However, their PC ran out when nothing was found. So, shouldn't they have been released?

Josh3239
10-12-2009, 10:14 PM
"the person called their supplier"

Probable cause could be argued because of the information provided by the first suspect. The information only has to be believed as reliable. The fact that the first suspect called his supplier and two men showed up at the first suspects house is plenty probable cause. There arrest was probably because they suspected them of hiding drugs in their bodies or deep in their car, that type of search is not done on the street.

IIRC the police actually have 72 hours to charge you with something. For 72 hours, weekends not included, you can sit in jail while the system decides whether they have a case.

locosway
10-12-2009, 10:17 PM
"the person called their supplier"

Probable cause could be argued because of the information provided by the first suspect. The information only has to be believed as reliable. The fact that the first suspect called his supplier and two men showed up at the first suspects house is plenty probable cause.

I can't imagine a known drug dealer who's threatened with arrest and jail time to be reliable. If anything, they're a liar. Also, during the call, they never mentioned drugs, they only use lingo and slang.

Again, I'm not on anyones side here. I'm just confused as how they could haul someone off for a search like that with no evidence other than a drug dealers word.

Some of these people have nice houses and cars. If one of my upstanding friends called me and said they needed me to bring some ice for them, I'd show up with ice.

locosway
10-12-2009, 10:19 PM
Well, before the patriot act we have to remember Kevin Mitnick.

"Mitnick served five years in prison, four and a half years pre-trial"

So, I'm not sure there's any real limit, especially now. I just find it odd that they could run someone down to jail and try and pin charges on them. This could be anyone for anything as it's clearly up to the agents discretion.

Josh3239
10-12-2009, 10:41 PM
Hmm, I am busting out my old Criminal Justice textbook trying to see what I can find.

So far I'll I can find is if that the person who is a suspected drug dealer tells the officer that he can get him his supplier, then that is treated the same as the word of a victim, witness, or an informant/snitch. The officers are of course educated in the slang, so if they are talking about ice the question is it reasonable to assume that the dealer is talking about frozen water or drugs. The fact that the other two guys showed up at a location where crime was going on and they were named as suppliers gives the officers PC to conduct a felony stop. Even though the warrant doesn't state that the officers can search other peoples or even anything outside of the house they raided, the law does give them a certain flexibility in the event of unforseeable circumstances. The cavity search could be legal if the officers reasonable believe that the suspects are hiding weapons or contraband in their bodies.

Whether the officers had proper PC is the job of the Grand Jury.

locosway
10-12-2009, 10:50 PM
Wow, seems like a little too much power there. Not because they are pursuing drug dealers, but because I can see myself or someone else who's innocent getting caught up in something like that very easily.