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View Full Version : It is high time to strike back at our enemies now.


Loner
10-12-2009, 7:01 PM
I know today is a disappointing and very angry day for calgunners due to the recent events that have occurred in the past few months, with regards to AB962. Especially the last 24 hours with the passage by Arnold.
Iím aware of the legal actions that bwiese and hoffmang have posted about before. However, we canít just rely on the courts to win our battles. We must become aggressive in combating our enemies to prevent further actions like AB962 from reappearing every year.

Our enemy is not Arnold, he is a has-been washed up actor, and after next year, a has-been washed up politician. The Brady Campaign isnít our enemy at this moment either; theyíre irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Our enemy is the Legislature of the State of California. Year after year, these career politicians join in creating irrelevant laws, raise your taxes, and appoint un-elected bureaucrats that decide how you should live here.
Legislators like De Leon (author of AB962) get a salary of 100,000+ each year, plus hundreds of dollars in daily allowances, plus a state-paid car with state-paid full auto insurance coverage. And where does this money all come from? Well, from all of us state citizens who work hard every week, so we can watch our money disappear into the black hole called, ďThe General FundĒ. Where these legislature pay themselves and any new programs to fund.

Donít believe me? Take a look at this Sac Bee article (http://www.sacbee.com/capitolandcalifornia/story/2245509.html) that shows what just the legislator employees get. Here are some nice highlights:

Family health care insurance with monthly premiums paid entirely by the state. Five of seven plans require no employee contribution.
Annual reimbursement of up to $1,500 per employee in the Assembly (not the Senate) for medications, co-pays and other out-of-pocket health expenses.
Vacations ranging up to six weeks for longtime employees.
Free dental, vision and long-term disability insurance, including limited orthodontic services, and a free $50,000 life insurance policy.

This is just the staff members who work for them! This isnít even mentioning the pensions they collect when they retire, which is also paid for with tax-payer money, our money. I wonít even get into the money they get from Lobbyists and Unions who own them. If any you have listened to John and Ken on KFI, you would know this already. For those who donít, since the February budget that increased all of our states taxes, they have covered all the corruption at various levels of this state. Those interested should checkout podcasts on their ďTax Revolt 2009Ē shows.

Now, you might ask yourself, how can I fight against such an entrenched corrupt institution? First let us take a look at the past. In November 2008, Prop 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_11_%282008%29) was passed, this would remove the decision of how district lines are drawn from the legislature to an independent body. This is why the Democrats have had a long stranglehold on the state; they decided how the districts should be drawn.

The only thing left to attack them with is status and pay. Since 1966, California has had a full-time legislature. Before then, I have heard California used to have lower taxes, one of them being a 4% sales tax. Since í66, each subsequent decade has seen increase in spending and taxes. More and more laws created by an insane legislature to make a name for himself. All at the cost of us, the tax-payer. We can end this, by returning the state to a part-time legislature as it was once before. To compare, the state of Texas has its legislature meet every two years to decide the budget. They also make less than half of what Californiaís legislature make each year.

Now, there is one group at the moment starting the process to do just that. They are called Citizens for California Reform (CCR) (http://www.reformcal.com/). I have posted about them in a previous thread before. They have petitionsí ready to download to be filled and sent in. Now is the time we become more active in this initiative. With our groups energized and angry, we must focus all of it on this to put the hurt on the legislature.

The recent movement of the Tea Parties, the defeat of the special elections of May, the protests at Town Halls, and the recent efforts by us against AB962 shows an organized effort can beat well established entities. The only reason we lost on AB962 is we were dealing with politicians, and politicians only count on quid pro quo and ignore their constituents.

I ask the heads of the CGF to look into organizing with the CCR, thereís a common goal to be reached. We do this, and we make history. This is just more than just gun rights. This affects every single productive citizen of this state. Every single person that has had their livelihood or their life affected by this legislature.

We must not stagnate on this; we have made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They raise our taxes and we acquiesce, they ban or restrict our civil gun rights and we move out of state. Not again. The line must be drawn here, this far, no further. We must push them back, and make them pay for what they have done.

catnipper
10-12-2009, 7:31 PM
It's seems unlikley to me that CGF would join this, it might piss somebody off...

hoffmang
10-12-2009, 7:56 PM
It's seems unlikley to me that CGF would join this, it might piss somebody off...

CGF fights for firearms related civil rights. We're unlikely to go very far afield of that. As a (c)(3) we are specifically not allowed to be involved in elections of politicians generally.

-Gene

UziDoesIt
10-12-2009, 8:03 PM
What do you mean "don't be mad at Arnold"? He alone had the power to stop this.

I do not expect the Democratic legislature to take our opinions into consideration, we didn't get them into office. But Arnold was our candidate, he wasn't the candidate of De Leon's constituency, there is no excuse for what he did (or what he said doing it).

Greg-Dawg
10-12-2009, 8:09 PM
Protest.

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/Muslims-riot-France.jpg

Loner
10-12-2009, 8:11 PM
What do you mean "don't be mad at Arnold"? He alone had the power to stop this.

I do not expect the Democratic legislature to take our opinions into consideration, we didn't get them into office. But Arnold was our candidate, he wasn't the candidate of De Leon's constituency, there is no excuse for what he did (or what he said doing it).
You can be mad at him, but he's essentially a lame duck. He's termed out and any effort against him should be used against the legislature.

hoffmang: I didn't know about that. Though I still feel the members here should be encouraged to have this initiative be on the ballot.

UziDoesIt
10-12-2009, 8:14 PM
You can be mad at him, but he's essentially a lame duck. He's termed out and any effort against him should be used against the legislature.

hoffmang: I didn't know about that. Though I still feel the members here should be encouraged to have this initiative be on the ballot.

I don't disagree with anything else you wrote, but lets make sure Arnold's political career (elected and unelected) ends after this lame duck session.

yellowfin
10-12-2009, 8:18 PM
Oh they certainly will be encouraged, it just can't have CGF letterhead on it. The folks of CGF acting an official capacity are bound to very specific guidelines thanks to McCain-Feingold. The two authors of it and all who voted for that act should be drawn and quartered for having brought that about--if we the people had any real say in things it would be repealed, but the distance between that and where we are now shows just how much our government is about its own self sustaining interests as an entity separate from the people.

radioman
10-12-2009, 8:38 PM
People in this State live in fear, and they vote in fear. Dukemajun, Willson, they won on fear, fear of crime. That is why we have the laws we have now, but how do you get to those people who live in fear of the dark. I have been voting for 35 years, I don't vote for bonds, or incumbents.

Loner
10-12-2009, 8:40 PM
People in this State live in fear, and they vote in fear. Dukemajun, Willson, they won on fear, fear of crime. That is why we have the laws we have now, but how do you get to those people who live in fear of the dark. I have been voting for 35 years, I don't vote for bonds, or incumbents.
The tax angle. The tax increases from the Feb. budget really angered the people. The Legislature has been in the 20's for approval since then. We can use that anger and help have this on the ballot. Fear is one thing, but anger is wholly different.

orangeusa
10-12-2009, 8:45 PM
RadioMan - Sorry, but I suggest that your post only makes sense if you replace the word FEAR with APATHY.

Most folks don't have a freaking idea of the candidates history or capabilities or their platforms.

(Not a rant on you - just that from what I've seen in 25+ years here, that most folks have no idea who or what they are voting on except for 2-3 offices/referendums)

technique
10-12-2009, 8:50 PM
I say we ban soy!!!! That otta piss off some liberal gun grabbers!!!!

radioman
10-13-2009, 11:48 AM
The tax angle. The tax increases from the Feb. budget really angered the people. The Legislature has been in the 20's for approval since then. We can use that anger and help have this on the ballot. Fear is one thing, but anger is wholly different.

Loner, you make a good point, but can we make this anger work for us. moreover, who do we put our support behind, is there anyone out there that will fight for us, and at the same time, pull in the unhappy voter. To coin the Who, "we don't get fooled again" as so many did with the recall, all that did was to dig the hole deeper.

Doug L
10-13-2009, 3:26 PM
CGF fights for firearms related civil rights. We're unlikely to go very far afield of that. As a (c)(3) we are specifically not allowed to be involved in elections of politicians generally.

-Gene

Gene,

Reformcal.com---Citizens for California Reform---is not about electing politicians. They're gathering signatures for a proposition to return the California legislature to part-time status. That way, they (the legislature) would have a whole lot less time to come up with, and implement, lunatic legislation like AB 962.

CGF and CRPA should BOTH be getting behind this effort 100%.

tazmanian devil dog
10-13-2009, 3:51 PM
Let's take it to the streets!! Let's organize a mass protest in Sacramento at the State Legislature!!! Everyone else protests this and that, why not us?

This is the time. If we don't act now, we will lose.

oldrifle
10-13-2009, 3:55 PM
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/869/kevindeleonfascism2.jpg

Nose Nuggets
10-13-2009, 4:23 PM
What do you mean "don't be mad at Arnold"? He alone had the power to stop this.

I do not expect the Democratic legislature to take our opinions into consideration, we didn't get them into office. But Arnold was our candidate, he wasn't the candidate of De Leon's constituency, there is no excuse for what he did (or what he said doing it).

I dont want to make it sound like im looking directly at you by quoting your response, but its thinking like this that will be terribly detrimental. this them vs. us, democrats vs republicans, left vs right, libtards vs repubtards crap is blinding people.

i cant stress enough how completely fing irrelevant the two parties are. they are two sides of the same coin. the dog and pony show that politicians put on in front of the camera is akin to WWF wrestling. they are all buddy buddy. they are all pressing for similar goals. behind the scenes its not just a different ball park, its a different sport entirely.

Nose Nuggets
10-13-2009, 4:24 PM
[QUOTE=oldrifle;3206911] giant clown pic

sorry to thread jack here but, what is the significance of the clown painted face and socialism/fascism?

Nose Nuggets
10-13-2009, 4:28 PM
Let's take it to the streets!! Let's organize a mass protest in Sacramento at the State Legislature!!! Everyone else protests this and that, why not us?

This is the time. If we don't act now, we will lose.

and what good has their protesting in the streets accomplished? every year we elect career politicians. they run on different platforms, and make different false promises but in the end, people just find the lesser of two evils among the candidates with television commercials and we are right back in the same place the next time around.

Loner
10-13-2009, 4:36 PM
Loner, you make a good point, but can we make this anger work for us. moreover, who do we put our support behind, is there anyone out there that will fight for us, and at the same time, pull in the unhappy voter. To coin the Who, "we don't get fooled again" as so many did with the recall, all that did was to dig the hole deeper.
At the moment there is no one figure to rally around. The current crop of candidates for next years governor race are still too new to see who we can rally behind. However, we should focus instead on convincing our fellow state citizens on getting rid of all the incumbents and dismantling their current system.

I have to make a correction to my earlier post, the newest field poll shows the legislature at now having a 13% approval rating. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/schwarzenegger-poll-numbers-reach-new-low-legislature-does-even-worse.html) Those are numbers worse than both Carter and W. The mood and the time is now perfect to go on the offensive.

As I said before, this is bigger than just our gun rights. All the laws that the legislature have passed up until now has affected every single citizen in some form. Go to your friends, co-workers, and relatives about this. Believe me, even democratic voters don't enjoy paying more money on goods due to taxes. Use angles on CARB laws, taxes, and other fees that go up each year.

If that doesn't work, just wait until January when these scumbags come back and decide to raise more taxes because revenue was lower than expected. Just point out all the expense the legeslatures waste on their pet issues and themselves; it's all their in the news, quietly reported. Show them how corrupt their representatives are, and they'll want to get rid of them.

We need to get more of the CCR ballots and have your friends, co-workers, and relatives fill them out and submit them.

oldrifle
10-13-2009, 4:45 PM
sorry to thread jack here but, what is the significance of the clown painted face and socialism/fascism?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/obama-joker-artist.html

loather
10-13-2009, 4:56 PM
sorry to thread jack here but, what is the significance of the clown painted face and socialism/fascism?

Normally it's Obama's head. This one I think purports to be Kevin DeLeon.




Anyways, to go back on topic, I'm in total agreement with California having a part-time legislature. There's no good reason for them to meet and come up with a bunch of useless, time/money-wasting laws all year-round to somehow justify their salaries. What they should be doing is representing their constituents, as they were elected to do.

Quid pro quo is the status quo in the legislature. Let's tell them that this isn't OK.

Corporate lobbying should be illegal.