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View Full Version : What happens if I let FFL 03 lic expire?


Hunt
10-12-2009, 4:42 PM
Lets say I buy a nice collection of relics on my newly acquired FFL 03 then I don't pay the annual renewal fee. If lic expires what happens to record keeping requirements and ATF inspections?

ke6guj
10-12-2009, 4:47 PM
If you let it expire, then you are no longer licensed. If you aren't licensed, then you don't have a licensed premise that ATF could request an inspection for. You also can dispose of your bound book. 03FFLs do not have to send their bound books to ATF when they let the license expire, as opposed to other FFL types who do have to send in their bound books.

Hunt
10-12-2009, 4:54 PM
If you let it expire, then you are no longer licensed. If you aren't licensed, then you don't have a licensed premise that ATF could request an inspection for. You also can dispose of your bound book. 03FFLs do not have to send their bound books to ATF when they let the license expire, as opposed to other FFL types who do have to send in their bound books.

oh I see an overlay here :D

bplvr
11-01-2009, 9:11 PM
...and since you no longer have a licensed premise to inspect you will need to take all of your collection to another 03 to hold for you. As an 03 holder,I am willing to help you out with your situation. ;)

Rem1492
11-02-2009, 12:20 AM
For me it is easier to let it expire as I have MANY 03 guns. Then apply for a new one and start a whole new bound book. Makes keeping track and auditing MUCH easier.

gunn
11-02-2009, 10:56 AM
Lets say I buy a nice collection of relics on my newly acquired FFL 03 then I don't pay the annual renewal fee. If lic expires what happens to record keeping requirements and ATF inspections?

The fee is payable once every 3 years so you have a while before you need to ponder this question...
-g

paul0660
11-02-2009, 11:17 AM
You have to keep the 03 bound book for twenty years.......I know I know......I used to think you get to chuck it but not true. No I don't know where that is cited but I did see it in black and white once, after being referred to it by a 03 smarter than I. Since you don't have a license anymore they cannot inspect you BUT they can demand to see the book with a search warrant.

ke6guj
11-02-2009, 11:48 AM
You have to keep the 03 bound book for twenty years.......I know I know......I used to think you get to chuck it but not true. No I don't know where that is cited but I did see it in black and white once, after being referred to it by a 03 smarter than I. Since you don't have a license anymore they cannot inspect you BUT they can demand to see the book with a search warrant.I'd like to see that in writing somewhere. Licensed collectors need to keep records for 20-years, but if they aren't a licensed collector, then 27CFR478.129 doesn't apply to them anymore.

AFAIK, the same would apply to other FFLs who send in their records after their license expires. 478.129 doesn't require them to keep a copy of their records after their licensee expired.

5hundo
11-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Will they send you a renewal notice when it's time to renew your license?

...or do you have to send it in on your own?

ke6guj
11-02-2009, 12:52 PM
yes, you should get a renewal notice a couple months before the license expires.

paul0660
11-02-2009, 2:20 PM
I got a renewal notice, and sent it back with the NO box checked. As far as the records things go, I am keeping mine, if I had more time I would look it up but the 20 year thing is there. I should have saved it (maybe I did but can't find it) because I was DUMBFOUNDED when I read it .

It's in that pile they send you when you first get the license, and available on line, I don't know where.

5hundo
11-02-2009, 9:53 PM
Emphasis on... should

Got it! Thanks man... ;)

monkezuncle
12-20-2009, 9:54 PM
In answer to the renewl question. They will send you the form. I know b/c I just got my renewal from in the mail. :)

BTW, It is one of the most complicated pieces of junk I have ever seen. No cover letter. No instructions. It's worse then the original application!

Squashua
08-02-2010, 9:24 PM
so when i get a 03FFL the atf can come to my house anytime for a inspection?

ke6guj
08-02-2010, 10:15 PM
so when i get a 03FFL the atf can come to my house anytime for a inspection?

by law, ATF can inspect your C&R firearms and bound book once a year IIRC. If you do not want them coming to your house to do the inspection, you have the option of having the inspection done at the local ATF office. They don't always like doing it at the office, so you may encounter some resistance to that, but it is your right.

mosinnagantm9130
08-02-2010, 10:30 PM
so when i get a 03FFL the atf can come to my house anytime for a inspection?

And they don't just show up going "Hi, I don't know if we've met, but I'm the ATF. Let me in"

They can't legally do that. If they do want an inspection, the time and place will be worked out ahead of time, they can't just show up randomly.

SanPedroShooter
08-20-2010, 5:15 AM
I got my 03 in May, and have yet to recieve the "info packet". How long did you guys wait before it showed?

RudyN
08-20-2010, 8:30 AM
Normally the information packet shows up before the license.

cedricxerxes
08-20-2010, 8:53 AM
I got my 03 in May, and have yet to recieve the "info packet". How long did you guys wait before it showed?

I received my 03 earlier this month. My packet showed up two days after I got the FFL.

TRICKSTER
08-20-2010, 1:42 PM
You have to keep the 03 bound book for twenty years.......I know I know......I used to think you get to chuck it but not true. No I don't know where that is cited but I did see it in black and white once, after being referred to it by a 03 smarter than I. Since you don't have a license anymore they cannot inspect you BUT they can demand to see the book with a search warrant.

Since someone resurrected this thread, might as well get rid of some FUD. First of all, "Licensees" are required to keep records for 20 years, if you are no longer licensed, you are not a "Licensee." That is why other FFL's are required to send in their records if they go out of business and are no longer licensed, they are no longer "Licensees". Second, you do not need to keep your 03 bound book or send it in after your are no longer licensed, this is required of "businesses" and 03 FFL's are not a business.

Straight from the ATF. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html#surrender-bound-book
Q: Are licensed collectors required to turn in their acquisition/disposition records to ATF if their collector’s license is not renewed or they discontinue their collecting activity?

No. The GCA requires the delivery of required records to the Government within 30 days after a firearm “business” is discontinued. A license as a collector of curios or relics does not authorize any business with respect to firearms. This is in contrast to firearm importers, manufacturers, and dealers who are licensed to engage in a firearms business. Therefore, the records required to be kept by licensed collectors under the law and regulations are not business records and are not required to be turned in to ATF when collectors’ licenses are not renewed or collecting activity under such licenses is discontinued.