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Exposed
10-12-2009, 12:17 PM
I know some states require ammo being bought online to be shipped to an FFL where a private person can go pick up their ammo. It works much like the purchase of an out of state firearm purchase. Basically, when this law takes effect (if not defeated by the NRA and CGF first) can I still buy my cheap wolf and brown bear 9mm from ammunitiontogo.com like I do now (when its in stock of course) and have it sent to a local FFL where I can then go pick it up? :o

EBR Works
10-12-2009, 12:19 PM
Yes, but I would imagine that the FFL will charge a fee for this. You also face the issue of shipment to a different address than that on your credit card. Some credit card issuers may balk at this.

Exposed
10-12-2009, 12:21 PM
Yes, but I would imagine that the FFL will charge a fee for this.

Ya, I know, it might cost the same as purchasing it at a local store after shipping and service fees, however, it MIGHT be worth it........I mean, it would be an option, a sad option, but still an option.

Also, as it stands now, I get all my out of state ammo shipped to my job which is different from my CC billing address. I havent had a problem in 2 years of doing this.

woodsman
10-12-2009, 12:27 PM
If your FFL is a friend and will do it for free, maybe. In general, I doubt it as many are gouging for a PPT. No doubt the same will likely happen with ammo.

usmcchet9296
10-12-2009, 1:42 PM
You know the dealers will charge a fee to hold your ammo and transfer it to you its just the law of supply and demand. Honestly it might be a good idea to open and ammo only business right now since demand will be high for the foreseeable future here in Kaliforniastan.

bohoki
10-12-2009, 9:48 PM
i'm stil trying to figure out the legal definition of handgun ammunition

hoffmang
10-12-2009, 9:49 PM
Handgun Ammunition Vendors do not need FFLs. They need only to maintain the records.

-Gene

Librarian
10-12-2009, 10:12 PM
i'm stil trying to figure out the legal definition of handgun ammunition

PC 12323, as referenced in new PC 12060 and PC 12318 from the bill: As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall apply:

(a)"Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles.

Now, what that definition means is less clear...

glockfu
10-12-2009, 10:24 PM
Honestly it might be a good idea to open and ammo only business right now since demand will be high for the foreseeable future here in Kaliforniastan.

Good luck... handgun ammo is still very backordered at the manufacture and wholesale level.

hoffmang
10-12-2009, 10:26 PM
PC 12323, as referenced in new PC 12060 and PC 12318 from the bill:

Now, what that definition means is less clear...

Enh... What it intends to mean:

9mm
.380ACP
.45ACP
.40S&W
.32
.25
.357
10mm
.50DE
9mm Mak
.45LC
etc.

Now, what an anti-gun California court will take it to mean is risky. However, .22lr, 5.56/2.23, 7.62x39, .308, .30-06 etc. are not "handgun ammunition.

-Gene

AlexDD
10-13-2009, 6:34 AM
How about 5.7mm x 28 since it was designed for a shoulder fired weapon first?

steelrain82
10-14-2009, 5:32 AM
i love how its .22 long "rifle". lets see them try to say thats a pistol round

rklute
10-14-2009, 10:51 AM
Cartridges such as .22LR, .44-40, .38-40, etc. are grey area. The existing law that this bill references uses common usage as the deciding factor, the existence of a handgun or rifle that uses the cartridge not withstanding. While they started out as rifle ammunition back in the 1800's, it can be argued that they are now handgun ammunition.

The legislation also exempts any cartridge manufactured for use in antique handguns. This would put any black powder cowboy action loads in pre-1900 cartridges in the grey area also.

The Federal US Code defines ammunition to include the components. California law does not appear to define ammunition, but just accept common usage. In fact, I would argue that because Section 5 of the bill, which amends section 12316 of the Penal Code, specifically spells out an expanded definition of ammunition to include specific components that the use of the word 'ammunition' in the rest of the code can only mean live cartridges. I could also argue that, since there are sections of the Penal Code that specifically address ammunition and reloaded ammunition as separate entities, that this bill does not restrict the sale of reloaded ammunition.

steelrain82
10-15-2009, 2:21 PM
i have a feeling .22lr will probably go on the list since from what i understand, its a common round found in murder seens and its mostly fired out of a pistol. i think they will go off of how many crimes are commited with the gray area calibers. just speculating.

kf6tac
10-15-2009, 2:27 PM
Ya, I know, it might cost the same as purchasing it at a local store after shipping and service fees, however, it MIGHT be worth it........I mean, it would be an option, a sad option, but still an option.

Also, as it stands now, I get all my out of state ammo shipped to my job which is different from my CC billing address. I havent had a problem in 2 years of doing this.

It also doesn't get you around the fingerprint/registration requirement, which for me is the part of AB962 that is really a slap in the face. I mean, the ban on internet orders is ridiculous and I hope it dies a quick death, but having to give my fingerprint every time I want ammo is just pure insult, and I refuse to do it out of principle.

Quemtimebo
10-15-2009, 2:52 PM
i have a feeling .22lr will probably go on the list since from what i understand, its a common round found in murder seens and its mostly fired out of a pistol.

Really?! (and I'm asking this in all sincerity!!!) Seems like that would be the last cartridge on earth I'd use to pop someone. I don't doubt its stopping power or anything like that, but wouldn't the round probably do most of its damage by bouncing around inside the victim's body? Why use a bullet that could be easily extracted and identified by LE? Is it the relatively low noise of the .22lr that makes it so attractive?

Stuka
10-16-2009, 7:41 PM
Really?! (and I'm asking this in all sincerity!!!) Seems like that would be the last cartridge on earth I'd use to pop someone. I don't doubt its stopping power or anything like that, but wouldn't the round probably do most of its damage by bouncing around inside the victim's body? Why use a bullet that could be easily extracted and identified by LE? Is it the relatively low noise of the .22lr that makes it so attractive?

I figure its because its a small, super cheap form of ammo fired from small, generally very cheap fire arms.

While I hope its not included, I am thinking it ultimately will be.

What annoys me the most about this law is that I buy all my 7.62x25 ammo online because its impossible to find where I live. Well that I think its ludicrous that I should have to give fingerprints to buy anything at all.