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View Full Version : AB962 and private clubs -- a theoretical discussion


gewgaw
10-12-2009, 11:38 AM
Theoretically, say there was a private shooting club, where members joined for a fee and purchased ammo as a group -- since that ammo was purchased by the club, private transfers to the club members would not require thumbprints etc., right? Since it would be a private transfer between private parties, and nothing was being sold...

Utah has had some experience in this, where only members of a private club could drink alcohol.

Anyone want to help start a Private Shooting Club? :)

1923mack
10-12-2009, 11:49 AM
That is one idea. C&R holders are also exempt. Working with them might get similar results.

gewgaw
10-12-2009, 12:04 PM
Just so happens, I have a C&R FFL03 license... ;)

dfletcher
10-12-2009, 12:07 PM
That is one idea. C&R holders are also exempt. Working with them might get similar results.

Do you need just the C & R or C & R plus COE?

Just a personal guess, but I don't hold out alot of hope for Midway, Natchez and others to be inclined to deal with the whole C & R/COE exemption. Maybe Grafs will - just a hunch.

thempopresense
10-12-2009, 12:08 PM
I wonder if some of the "Range" only places will quite selling ammo. Places like Chabot don't make a lot of money on ammo sales, so why bother with the extra paperwork.

mzimmers
10-12-2009, 12:09 PM
That is one idea. C&R holders are also exempt. Working with them might get similar results.
* ears ***** up *

What? Exempt from internet sales?

And...what's a COE (from another post)?

EBR Works
10-12-2009, 12:12 PM
Do you need just the C & R or C & R plus COE?


C&R + COE

Certicate Of Eligibility

Give me a minute and I'll try to find you a link....

Hmm, can't find it. It's basically a background check with fingerprinting. Same process is done when you get a CCW. It costs around $100 and must be renewed yearly for around $22. Fill out this form:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/coeapp.pdf

..and take it to a local Live Scan location:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/fingerprints/publications/contact.htm

thmpr
10-12-2009, 12:18 PM
Revenue for the state....:D

ke6guj
10-12-2009, 12:31 PM
Do you need just the C & R or C & R plus COE?
.IIRC, you need both, the C&R and the COE

* ears ***** up *

What? Exempt from internet sales?

And...what's a COE (from another post)?COE = Certificate of Eligibilty, an extra background check you can have done with electronic fingerprints taken. With the COE and a C&R, you are exempt from the 10-day wait at a dealer for C&R firearms of any age, are exempt from the 1-handgun-a-month limit for ALL handguns, C&R and Modern, and now, are exempt from portions of the AB962 restrictions.

Rick530
10-12-2009, 12:36 PM
With a C&R tho cant DOJ or ATF or whomeever come to your house a anytime to inspect?? Hell if I want to give them free reign to come in.

mzimmers
10-12-2009, 12:36 PM
Which portions of AB 962? Could I still purchase via the Internet?

EBR Works
10-12-2009, 12:41 PM
With a C&R tho cant DOJ or ATF or whomeever come to your house a anytime to inspect?? Hell if I want to give them free reign to come in.

With C&R (FFL03) there are no surprise inspections. I have had mine for 2 years and they have never called for an "appointment".

Rick530
10-12-2009, 12:44 PM
With C&R (FFL03) there are no surprise inspections. I have had mine for 2 years and they have never called for an "appointment".

Interesting. I may have to look into this.

curtisfong
10-12-2009, 12:50 PM
Which portions of AB 962? Could I still purchase via the Internet?

If you can find a vendor that isn't scared off by AB962. Good luck with that.

ke6guj
10-12-2009, 12:54 PM
Which portions of AB 962? Could I still purchase via the Internet?

this is where internet sales were prohibited, but with an exemtpion for C&R+COE holders.

12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer
of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face
transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide
evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A
violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
(c) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to or affect the deliveries,
transfers, or sales of, handgun ammunition to any of the following:
(6) Persons licensed as collectors of firearms pursuant to Chapter
44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States
Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto whose licensed
premises are within this state who has a current certificate of
eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 12071.

Rick530
10-12-2009, 12:58 PM
Least I can still get my rifle ammo online. FOR NOW...

mzimmers
10-12-2009, 1:04 PM
Thanks for the excerpt, ke6guj -- do you happen to have the entire section handy? Looks like this one was edited down.

I'm trying to understand the mention of collectors and licensed premises in the same sentence.

RudyN
10-12-2009, 1:06 PM
I already have a C&R and the application for a COE. As to inspection of your boundbook. Only the BATFE can do that and you can do it at their office.

BigDogatPlay
10-12-2009, 1:08 PM
If you can find a vendor that isn't scared off by AB962. Good luck with that.

This is my fear as well. It's going to be far easier for the mail order / internet houses to simply not ship to California at all. Look at what some of them already do with any part or accessory related to an AR.

This is why the legal challenge being discussed elsewhere is vitally important and must be supported.

Having said that.... the shooting club idea seems on face like a good one. But the devil is always in the details. This should definitely be looked at.

Rick530
10-12-2009, 1:08 PM
I already have a C&R and the application for a COE. As to inspection of your boundbook. Only the BATFE can do that and you can do it at their office.

Thanks. I need to look into this.

ke6guj
10-12-2009, 1:16 PM
Thanks for the excerpt, ke6guj -- do you happen to have the entire section handy? Looks like this one was edited down.http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090921_enrolled.html

I'm trying to understand the mention of collectors and licensed premises in the same sentence.A collector with an C&R FFL has a licensed premise, usually his residence.

DaJoker
10-12-2009, 1:21 PM
I already have a COE but whats involved with getting a C&R?
Great discussion btw, very helpful.

EBR Works
10-12-2009, 1:22 PM
I already have a COE but whats involved with getting a C&R?
Great discussion btw, very helpful.

http://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com/Forum/index.php?topic=11859.0%3Bwap2

thempopresense
10-12-2009, 2:07 PM
how did this turn into COE & C&R Discussion, are we going to have every COE & C&R holder start there own firearms club with their own range?

gewgaw
10-12-2009, 2:26 PM
To bring it back on track, this wasn't intended as a C&R/COE discussion (though that has been really interesting!)....

As far as the law is worded, it SEEMS like a private corporation/club/non-profit entity could purchase ammo once, from a retailer, then distribute (NOT SELL) the ammo to members of that club, privately and adhering to the part of the law that prevents criminals from possessing ammunition.

Basically, the members of the club have to agree to a certain set of rules to stay on the right side of AB962:
1) Affirm that the ammo is for personal use only, and not for resale.
2) Affirm that you are legally not prohibited from possessing ammunition, as defined in the penal code.

Doesn't seem like C&R would be even necessary if the club rules are written well, and enforced well.

How 'bout it, fellas? Any other rules that would help? :)