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View Full Version : Will you take a moment and read this....Please.


Henry Shooter
10-12-2009, 9:16 AM
:79:With the passing of AB 962 this will open the way for many of the anti gun advocates to pursue other areas. Other states that feel this same legislation will work will follow the California model leading to the demise of ammunition. If you want to control a snake you must cut the head off. The head of our right to keep and bear arms is the ammunition. All of us that are frustrated with NRA CRPA and the likes must work with these organizations now more than ever. Sign up more members pay your dues show your support. The masses wonít let us down if they are on our side and they understand that our rights, not just the right to keep and bear arms, are being diminished more every day. Personally I am tired of being told what I must follow, do, or what I can or canít own. What I am most concerned with is the effect this will have on my child and her children. I donít know what to do. I will continue doing my daily job to take care of my family and friends. But the statement - ďTo do the same thing day in and out and expecting a changeĒ - is constantly bearing on my mind. This weakness is what they want us to feel. This is how they will win. My wish is for ideas and help because I know all you feel the same.
Thanks for listening

heyjak
10-12-2009, 9:26 AM
:79:With the passing of AB 962 this will open the way for many of the anti gun advocates to pursue other areas. Other states that feel this same legislation will work will follow the California model leading to the demise of ammunition. If you want to control a snake you must cut the head off. The head of our right to keep and bear arms is the ammunition. All of us that are frustrated with NRA CRPA and the likes must work with these organizations now more than ever. Sign up more members pay your dues show your support. The masses wonít let us down if they are on our side and they understand that our rights, not just the right to keep and bear arms, are being diminished more every day. Personally I am tired of being told what I must follow, do, or what I can or canít own. What I am most concerned with is the effect this will have on my child and her children. I donít know what to do. I will continue doing my daily job to take care of my family and friends. But the statement - ďTo do the same thing day in and out and expecting a changeĒ - is constantly bearing on my mind. This weakness is what they want us to feel. This is how they will win. My wish is for ideas and help because I know all you feel the same.
Thanks for listening

This is no time to quit the fight. It's merely time to "reload" and go at it some more. The battle may be over, but the WAR goes on! :chris:

Vtgunner
10-12-2009, 9:42 AM
Henry Shooter,

I agree with you a hundred percent. The bill was passed because they were able to illustrate (legit or not) that it has been effective in Sacramento. If they had never gotten the camels nose under the tent, AB962 would have never been passed. I was talking to a lobbyist supporting this bill and he said his job was very easy once they mention the arrests from the local Sacramento regulations. Of note he is a gun owner.

Despite how inocuous a law looks and the small amount of people the law affects, the laws need to challenged with everything we can bring. Almost all of our current gun laws and drug laws were enacted with the intent to prevent minorties from undertaking certain actions.

HondaMasterTech
10-12-2009, 9:47 AM
Right. I will support my new state in every way that I can. If you want California as your home, you can have it.

Rick530
10-12-2009, 9:53 AM
All these people deciding to run out on California remind me of a scard dog with its tail between its legs.

HondaMasterTech
10-12-2009, 10:00 AM
You assume too much. The reasons most people want to leave isn't JUST about guns. Look around. The state is corrupt, bankrupt, crime is out of control, taxes are out of control, spending is ridiculously mismanaged, the education system in public schools is a disaster. That's just a few things that are wrong. Sure, the climate is great.

If you want to stay and try to change things, more power to you. I respect that. But don't insult people for making choices that they probably don't want to make. I wish I didn't have to.

stagman
10-12-2009, 10:11 AM
All these people deciding to run out on California remind me of a scard dog with its tail between its legs.

The ship is sinking, you can stay and drown, or leave to help patch a ship with only minor damage.

I hope I'm wrong, because I love this state as much as the next USC honk, but good God... When will the "setbacks" end?

I guess my optimism is hurting, probably because I got my Property Tax Bill this weekend.:eek: UGHHH.

Super Spy
10-12-2009, 10:18 AM
All these people deciding to run out on California remind me of a scard dog with its tail between its legs.

You miss-spelled scared, further proving that California educational system is horrid, and giving one more reason to leave. People move on because they want a better life, and because they can.

Anyone else notice that in addition to better education, cheaper housing and taxes, less stupid laws, that people in other states seem friendlier? Most of the time people wave in Kali it's with one finger....

Surveyor
10-12-2009, 10:23 AM
I guess my optimism is hurting, probably because I got my Property Tax Bill this weekend.:eek: UGHHH.

Me too. My house has lost 50% of it's assessed value (From $300,000 down to $150,000), so I applied for a reassessment. They were kind enough to only tax me on $250,000....... I hate these people......

jdberger
10-12-2009, 11:13 AM
Right - we lost on 962. But we won on 585.

And we've a nice little Federal law with which to hammer 962.

Now we have an opportunity to reward those who stood with us and punish those who opposed us (or took us for granted).

We've the opportunity to show our strength.

Get in the fight. Now's not the time to give up.

bodger
10-12-2009, 11:21 AM
Right - we lost on 962. But we won on 585.

And we've a nice little Federal law with which to hammer 962.

Now we have an opportunity to reward those who stood with us and punish those who opposed us (or took us for granted).

We've the opportunity to show our strength.

Get in the fight. Now's not the time to give up.


I'm not disagreeing with you. But when is the time to give up? When an armed person with authority is at your door demanding you relenquish your firearms?

Crap like 962 is the pathway to that very scenario, and there is no guarantee we will win a court challenge. Meanwhile, more crap comes down the pipe.

"Peace With Honor". Call that what you will, we cut our losses and got the f**k out.

stagman
10-12-2009, 11:43 AM
Senator Dianne Feinstein: "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out-right ban, picking up every one of them... 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,' I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here." CBS-TV's "60 Minutes", February 5, 1995

Does this sound like a quote from a woman who gives two craps about ammo?

No. She is coming to get 'em boys and girls... Just wait. It may take a while, but puds like Deleon are going continue to "represent" the people of this state.

Nodda Duma
10-12-2009, 12:05 PM
Hard for you folks who are California natives to see why people would want to leave. Easy for us folks who moved here for work to see why people would want to leave. We owe no loyalty to the state...only to the corporations (or Navy, in my case) who hired us.

Let me invoke Godwin's law: Lots of people stuck around in Germany in the 30's, but lots of people left, too. There are lots of places in this country where gun rights and overbearing state governments are a non-issue.

-Jason

Phil3
10-12-2009, 12:07 PM
You assume too much. The reasons most people want to leave isn't JUST about guns. Look around. The state is corrupt, bankrupt, crime is out of control, taxes are out of control, spending is ridiculously mismanaged, the education system in public schools is a disaster. That's just a few things that are wrong. Sure, the climate is great.

If you want to stay and try to change things, more power to you. I respect that. But don't insult people for making choices that they probably don't want to make. I wish I didn't have to.

You echo my feelings very well. Even if California had gun laws no worse than any other state, I would be out of here in a nano-second if my wife and I could find a job elsewhere. Other than the weather, and perhaps the scenery, what else is there in California? Education performance, financial, roads, infrastructure, high unemployment, overwhelming liberal population centers that control the rest of the state (geographically, 2/3 of the state is conservative), liberal indoctrination colleges and universities (my daughter can tell you all about this), high real estate prices, punishing and overly progressive income taxes, the highest gasoline costs in the U.S., crushing regulations (like AB962), an idiotic legislature (spending time on the Blueberry Commission) instead of working on real problems.

People that make over $481k a year, the top 1% of all CA taxpayers, pay 48% of all state personal income taxes. And these people, the millionaires, are leaving. Arizona is gaining California millionaires rapidly, leaving California with nothing at all from these people. The top 15% of taxpayers in California make $100,000, and are responsible for 84% of all personal income taxes.

I don't like the weather and scenery enough to put up with all the negatives. I am out of here as soon as practical. Will fight for 2A rights, but California is the Titanic and it has hit the iceberg. May fight on another front, but will do so in CA as long as I have to be here.

- Phil

kapache
10-12-2009, 12:59 PM
Goodbye Kalifornia and Hello *Texas* It is true that we loss the war, but I highly doubt we might ever going to win the war against a semi communist state, like this one.

Blackhawk556
10-12-2009, 1:02 PM
delete

Blackhawk556
10-12-2009, 1:03 PM
I would be more worried about this bill if "The Hoff" was not on our side

anyone else feel the same??

thefurball
10-12-2009, 1:05 PM
Hard for you folks who are California natives to see why people would want to leave...

Not necessarily.

I was born in Sacramento back in the 50s and have lived here the vast majority of my life.

Several years ago I purchased 80 acres in Kansas for the sole purpose of getting the hell out of California.

I have had it with the cost of living, the lack of jobs, the nanny government, the traffic, the crime, the requirement to 'push one for English', and the makes-no-sense-whatsoever gun laws that keep getting piled one upon another.

Don't get me wrong, Kansas has gun laws too:

In 2006 it became a "shall issue" state;

In 2007 a law was passed preventing local governments from imposing additional restrictions on concealed guns;

In 2008 a law was passed legalizing the possession of machine guns, other fully automatic weapons, sawed-off shotguns and silencers; and

The right to keep and bear arms is in the Kansas State constitution.

I will continue to support the good fight in California, it is just that I will be calling the office of the Governor long distance from now on.

BigBamBoo
10-12-2009, 1:19 PM
............

HondaMasterTech
10-12-2009, 1:54 PM
I have lived here for 30 years. My loyalty is to my family and I.

bodger
10-12-2009, 2:06 PM
I have lived here for 30 years. My loyalty is to my family and I.

Same here. Came out here in 1979. I was stationed here in the USAF for a while up at Travis.
I'm finished. I do not believe this state is going to improve in any way.
If nothing else, the sanctuary it gives illegals proves that.

I would be more worried about this bill if "The Hoff" was not on our side

anyone else feel the same??

I have great respect for the people who started CalGuns and are the primary movers in the legal end of RTKB in CA. But they aren't superman.

As fast as we gain an inch, the bastids in Sac take another yard. I can do that math.

Goodbye Kalifornia and Hello *Texas* It is true that we loss the war, but I highly doubt we might ever going to win the war against a semi communist state, like this one.

Move to a free state, wait five years, and see how much ground has been gained for CA gun rights and ask yourself if you regret moving.

Guaranteed to get worse here. Time will either prove me right or wrong.

Legasat
10-12-2009, 2:25 PM
The state is corrupt, bankrupt, crime is out of control, taxes are out of control, spending is ridiculously mismanaged, the education system in public schools is a disaster.

Education performance, financial, roads, infrastructure, high unemployment, overwhelming liberal population centers that control the rest of the state (geographically, 2/3 of the state is conservative), liberal indoctrination colleges and universities (my daughter can tell you all about this), high real estate prices, punishing and overly progressive income taxes, the highest gasoline costs in the U.S., crushing regulations (like AB962), an idiotic legislature (spending time on the Blueberry Commission) instead of working on real problems.

People that make over $481k a year, the top 1% of all CA taxpayers, pay 48% of all state personal income taxes. And these people, the millionaires, are leaving. Arizona is gaining California millionaires rapidly, leaving California with nothing at all from these people. The top 15% of taxpayers in California make $100,000, and are responsible for 84% of all personal income taxes.
.

Staying or leaving is a totally personal issue. I HATE to leave CA, but I am thinking about it and discussing it with the wife. Won't happen immediately, but the issues listed above, along with the stifling gun laws, make this a hard place to stay. Time will tell...

radioburning
10-12-2009, 2:34 PM
All these people deciding to run out on California remind me of a scard dog with its tail between its legs.

+1. Cut and run when things get a little too rough.

Phil3
10-12-2009, 2:47 PM
+1. Cut and run when things get a little too rough.

Would you have stayed with the Titanic?

stagman
10-12-2009, 2:57 PM
+1. Cut and run when things get a little too rough.

Guess what? It's only going to get rougher bud.

NRA, Calguns, etc has worked extensively on trying to keep California from becoming England, but I feel with all of their efforts, they have merely slowed down the train, that is rolling down hill towards ZERO gun rights.

We can talk all day about wanting to fight, but the truth of the matter is "WE" are a minority in this state. And that is evident in "our" elected officials. Minorities needs will always be passed over for the wants of a majority.

Hunters, hobbiests, collectors, defenders alike, are all seeing the writing on the wall and seeking greener pastures where they are no longer the minority.

curtisfong
10-12-2009, 3:06 PM
Minorities needs will always be passed over for the wants of a majority.

Stop thinking like a minority, and particularly like a victim. Make 2A rights a concern for the majority.

RandyD
10-12-2009, 3:06 PM
You assume too much. The reasons most people want to leave isn't JUST about guns. Look around. The state is corrupt, bankrupt, crime is out of control, taxes are out of control, spending is ridiculously mismanaged, the education system in public schools is a disaster. That's just a few things that are wrong. Sure, the climate is great.

If you want to stay and try to change things, more power to you. I respect that. But don't insult people for making choices that they probably don't want to make. I wish I didn't have to.

I strongly agree with your comment. I also don't believe anything will change until a significant catastrophy is experienced. Look at the whole country and our state; everyone is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

jdberger
10-12-2009, 3:08 PM
Guess what? It's only going to get rougher bud.

NRA, Calguns, etc has worked extensively on trying to keep California from becoming England, but I feel with all of their efforts, they have merely slowed down the train, that is rolling down hill towards ZERO gun rights.

We can talk all day about wanting to fight, but the truth of the matter is "WE" are a minority in this state. And that is evident in "our" elected officials. Minorities needs will always be passed over for the wants of a majority.

Hunters, hobbiests, collectors, defenders alike, are all seeing the writing on the wall and seeking greener pastures where they are no longer the minority.

Right...and leaving will help increase our ranks - surely as 100 - 1 = 101.

You're aware of Nordyke (http://reason.com/blog/2009/04/21/nordyke-v-king-the-second-amen), no? That wasn't slowing down the train. That was derailling it. And THAT was what California gun-owners can do if they care enough to involve themselves.

rolo
10-12-2009, 3:15 PM
Did we just get an influx of tax protesters? I have never met a group of people with more negativity about the future then some of the people who are posting in this thread. Have you already forgotten about Nordyke? Heller wasn't something to cross your eyes at. McDonald will be very interesting and the impact will be bigger than just 2nd Amendment issues too.

Educate yourselves about how far we've come in the last five years. We've turned back THIRTY FREAKING YEARS of apathy. We have a lot of entropy to overcome, and your help would be welcome.

bodger
10-12-2009, 3:20 PM
I'll continue to fight and help and donate.

But I won't believe it until I see it that I can throw my bullet button over my shoulder and replace it with my standard mag release, slip a 30 rounder in my Bushmaster and carry my Glock 30 legally concealed in Los Angeles with my CCW.

Or LOC where I damn well please and not have to worry about a phantom school exactly 999 feet away that I can't see and isn't marked worth a damn.

I base my gun freedom standards on those that are available in other parts of the country where I could be instead of CA. Not how far out of the CA muck we've managed to pull ourselves only to still find that we're 30 years away from actual free state status.

redline
10-12-2009, 3:22 PM
At least hold off the moving until after the elections next year...we need your votes!

CessnaDriver
10-12-2009, 3:28 PM
California poison will seep into the rest of the nation.
The battle is here and now.

bodger
10-12-2009, 3:28 PM
+1. Cut and run when things get a little too rough.


Would you say that to a gunny from a free state who was considering a move to CA but declined due to the ridiculous gun laws?

I admire anyone who decides to stay and fight and I don't criticize their decision.

Who are you to criticize anyone who decides to leave and enjoy the freedoms of another part of America that hasn't been tainted by this crap?

I hate to see the Constitution get pissed on like this. A lot of other veterans I know feel the same way.

jdberger
10-12-2009, 3:30 PM
I'll continue to fight and help and donate.

But I won't believe it until I see it that I can throw my bullet button over my shoulder and replace it with my standard mag release, slip a 30 rounder in my Bushmaster and carry my Glock 30 legally concealed in Los Angeles with my CCW.

Or LOC where I damn well please and not have to worry about a phantom school exactly 999 feet away that I can't see and isn't marked worth a damn.

I base my gun freedom standards on those that are available in other parts of the country where I could be instead of CA. Not how far out of the CA muck we've managed to pull ourselves only to still find that we're 30 years away from actual free state status.

Hang onto that Bullet Button. You might be able to sell it to the poor saps in Massachussetts... ;)

Shotgun Man
10-12-2009, 3:31 PM
Would you say that to a gunny from a free state who was considering a move to CA but declined due to the ridiculous gun laws?

I admire anyone who decides to stay and fight and I don't criticize their decision.

Who are you to criticize anyone who decides to leave and enjoy the freedoms of another part of America that hasn't been tainted by this crap?

I hate to see the Constitution get pissed on like this. A lot of other veterans I know feel the same way.

True. You only live once. Live free.

BigBamBoo
10-12-2009, 3:41 PM
..............

Cobrafreak
10-12-2009, 3:57 PM
Unfortunately I have a very nice job in Sacramento and would not be as stable in another State. I have 24 more Frakkin years here till I retire. I will fight and support the cause till then, but I am reluctant to be optimistic that CA will ever be as free as TX or KS. Hopefully to a degree it will. I'm leaving and not looking back if I cant CCW with my 30 round mags and throw the damn BB's away by then.

HondaMasterTech
10-12-2009, 4:01 PM
Did we just get an influx of tax protesters? I have never met a group of people with more negativity about the future then some of the people who are posting in this thread. Have you already forgotten about Nordyke? Heller wasn't something to cross your eyes at. McDonald will be very interesting and the impact will be bigger than just 2nd Amendment issues too.

Educate yourselves about how far we've come in the last five years. We've turned back THIRTY FREAKING YEARS of apathy. We have a lot of entropy to overcome, and your help would be welcome.

I have educated myself. That is why I have made my descision. Again, this isn't just about guns.

bodger
10-12-2009, 4:09 PM
California poison will seep into the rest of the nation.
The battle is here and now.


That sounds familiar. Seems to me I heard that same thing from my Commander In Chief as a reason to stay and keep fighting in SouthEast Asia.

I think it was called The Domino Theory.

Shotgun Man
10-12-2009, 4:10 PM
That sounds familiar. Seems to me I heard that same thing from my Commander In Chief as a reason to stay and keep fighting in SouthEast Asia.

I think it was called The Domino Theory.


Yeah, the antis must be having a drunken orgy about now. Probably hoping for the gov to stop by.

steelrain82
10-12-2009, 4:19 PM
The domino theory was a sham everyone said. But what they feared finally happened. We have Obama

lomalinda
10-12-2009, 4:25 PM
Whether or not I wind up moving out of state, I will continue my involvement with Calguns and it mission. I have several reasons for this. First, my parents and a sister will likely continue living here indefinitely. Secondly, as has been discussed elsewhere, one cannot expect changes seen first in CA to not affect the rest of the country. Just look at the 1994 AWB passed by Clinton. It was based upon the Roberti-Roos nonsense.

KylaGWolf
10-12-2009, 6:03 PM
Not necessarily.

I was born in Sacramento back in the 50s and have lived here the vast majority of my life.

Several years ago I purchased 80 acres in Kansas for the sole purpose of getting the hell out of California.

I have had it with the cost of living, the lack of jobs, the nanny government, the traffic, the crime, the requirement to 'push one for English', and the makes-no-sense-whatsoever gun laws that keep getting piled one upon another.

Don't get me wrong, Kansas has gun laws too:

In 2006 it became a "shall issue" state;

In 2007 a law was passed preventing local governments from imposing additional restrictions on concealed guns;

In 2008 a law was passed legalizing the possession of machine guns, other fully automatic weapons, sawed-off shotguns and silencers; and

The right to keep and bear arms is in the Kansas State constitution.

I will continue to support the good fight in California, it is just that I will be calling the office of the Governor long distance from now on.

No matter where you go you WILL get the press one for English. I am in Ohio at the moment and see a lot of English/Spanish signs ::sighs:: Then again I was raised in a multi-racial household so doesn't bug me as much except when I try to do business with someone that cannot speak English enough to get what I need and doesn't do the job right.

downfall
10-12-2009, 6:22 PM
So, I moved back here from a free state, AZ., a year ago for family reasons. As soon as the kids are out and on their own it is back to AZ. and freedom from the oppressive PDRK laws, policies and taxes. However, while I am here in the workers paradise I will support CalGuns in the fight against ridiculous gun laws which are imposed on us by the State Soviet.

PDRK, Just like North Korea except the weather is better.