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View Full Version : Governor's signing statement on AB962


bwiese
10-12-2009, 9:32 AM
Didn't see a link to this yet, mods pull this if a dupe:

http://gov.ca.gov/pdf/press/2009bills/AB962_DeLeon_Signing_Message.pdf


To the Members of the California State Assembly:

I am signing Assembly Bill 962. This measure would require vendors of handgun ammunition to keep a log of information on handgun ammunition sales, store ammunition in a safe and secure manner, and require the face-to-face transfer of ammunition sales.

Although I have previously vetoed legislation similar to this measure, local governments have demonstrated that requiring ammunition vendors to keep records on ammunition sales improves public safety. These records have allowed law enforcement to arrest and prosecute persons who
have no business possessing firearms and ammunition: gang members, violent parolees, second and third strikers, and even people previously serving time in state prison for murder. Utilized properly, this type of information is invaluable for keeping communities safe and preventing
dangerous felons from committing crimes with firearms.

Moreover, this type of recordkeeping is no more intrusive for law abiding citizens than similar laws governing pawnshops or the sale of cold medicine. Unfortunately, even the most successful local program is flawed; without a statewide law, felons can easily skirt the record keeping requirements of one city by visiting another. Assembly Bill 962 will fix this problem by mandating that all ammunition vendors in the state keep records on ammunition sales.

As Governor, I have sought the appropriate balance between public safety and the right to keep and bear arms. I have signed important public safety measures to regulate the sale and transfer of .50 caliber rifles, instituted the California Firearms License Check program, and promoted the use of microstamping technology in handguns. I have also vetoed many pieces of legislation that sought to place unreasonable restrictions and burdens on firearms dealers and ammunition vendors. Assembly Bill 962 reasonably regulates access to ammunition and improves public safety without placing undue burdens on consumers.

For these reasons, I am pleased to sign this bill.

Sincerely, Arnold Schwarzenegger

nrakid88
10-12-2009, 9:34 AM
wow.... sad....

boxbro
10-12-2009, 9:37 AM
I wonder if he really believes all that hogwash.

lockandloadllc
10-12-2009, 9:37 AM
where is his proof: "local governments have demonstrated that requiring ammunition vendors to keep records on ammunition sales improves public safety"? He even says I vetoed this before. That makes loads of sense. I didn't like it before, but I do now.

bartt
10-12-2009, 9:37 AM
I guess that shows the dangers of prolonged steroid use. What a pin-head.
So when does this go into affect?

tiki
10-12-2009, 9:39 AM
usiLq-r4RgQ

Warhawk014
10-12-2009, 9:39 AM
that is incredibly sad

spitkiss
10-12-2009, 9:39 AM
I guess that shows the dangers of prolonged steroid use. What a pin-head.
So when does this go into affect?

Feb 1 2011

cortayack
10-12-2009, 9:40 AM
Yea....Mmmmmm.......Doesn't cause a burden on law-abiding citizens....Schwarzenegger pull your head out your liberal azz..............Wow another misstake voting for you.........No more hollywood rhinos for me...........!

CABilly
10-12-2009, 9:41 AM
Didn't see a link to this yet, mods pull this if a dupe:

http://gov.ca.gov/pdf/press/2009bills/AB962_DeLeon_Signing_Message.pdf


To the Members of the California State Assembly:

I am signing Assembly Bill 962. This measure would require vendors of handgun ammunition to keep a log of information on handgun ammunition sales, store ammunition in a safe and secure manner, and require the face-to-face transfer of ammunition sales.

Although I have previously vetoed legislation similar to this measure, local governments have demonstrated that requiring ammunition vendors to keep records on ammunition sales improves public safety. These records have allowed law enforcement to arrest and prosecute persons who
have no business possessing firearms and ammunition: gang members, violent parolees, second and third strikers, and even people previously serving time in state prison for murder. Utilized properly, this type of information is invaluable for keeping communities safe and preventing
dangerous felons from committing crimes with firearms.

Moreover, this type of recordkeeping is no more intrusive for law abiding citizens than similar laws governing pawnshops or the sale of cold medicine. Unfortunately, even the most successful local program is flawed; without a statewide law, felons can easily skirt the record keeping requirements of one city by visiting another. Assembly Bill 962 will fix this problem by mandating that all ammunition vendors in the state keep records on ammunition sales.

As Governor, I have sought the appropriate balance between public safety and the right to keep and bear arms. I have signed important public safety measures to regulate the sale and transfer of .50 caliber rifles, instituted the California Firearms License Check program, and promoted the use of microstamping technology in handguns. I have also vetoed many pieces of legislation that sought to place unreasonable restrictions and burdens on firearms dealers and ammunition vendors. Assembly Bill 962 reasonably regulates access to ammunition and improves public safety without placing undue burdens on consumers.

For these reasons, I am pleased to sign this bill.

Sincerely, Arnold Schwarzenegger

Juxtapose that with :

To the Members of the California State Senate:

I am returning Senate Bill 585 without my signature.

This bill would prohibit the sale of firearms and ammunition at the Cow Palace. This bill would set a confusing precedent at the state level by statutorily prohibiting one District Agricultural Association (DAA) from selling firearms and ammunition, a legal and regulated activity, while allowing other DAAs to continue to do so. In addition, this bill would result in decreased state and local tax revenues by restricting events at the Cow Palace.

For these reasons, I am unable to sign this bill.

Sincerely,



Arnold Schwarzenegger

And:











To the Members of the California State Senate:

I am returning Senate Bill 41 without my signature.

This measure would require the Department of Justice (Department) to furnish, upon
request, information concerning a personís ownership of any firearms reported to the
Department. In addition, this measure would also require firearms dealers and purchasers
to provide signatures on extra copies of paperwork prior to the delivery of a firearm.
This measure is unnecessary. The Department already provides firearm ownership
information upon request and firearms transactions already require more than enough
paperwork to ensure proper recordation of firearm transaction information. Indeed,
unlike Senate Bills 175 & 449, which I am signing, this measure does not appear to have
any discernible benefit; it does not increase public safety, does not improve the business
climate for Californiaís firearms retailers, nor does it provide any additional protections
for firearm purchasers.

Moreover, it should be noted that Assembly Concurrent Resolution 73 (McCarthy, 2006)
required the California Law Revision Commission to submit recommendations to the
Legislature on how to reduce the length and complexity of Title 2 (commencing with
Section 12000) of Part 4 of the Penal Code, relating to the control of deadly weapons.
Senate Bill 41, unfortunately, does not follow any of the recommendations by the
Commission and instead exacerbates the current problems with the Penal Code.

I urge the Legislature to forgo enacting additional measures such as Senate Bill 41 until
the recommendations of the California Law Revision Commission are enacted.

For these reasons, I am unable to sign this bill.

Sincerely,



Arnold Schwarzenegger


They just don't quite work together, you know?

5hundo
10-12-2009, 9:49 AM
I wonder if he really believes all that hogwash.

Of course he does... :rolleyes:

That's the thing about the gun control laws: to people who are completely ignorant on gun issues, they sound like good ideas. You might even get a false sense of security because some moron in Sacramento signed a piece of paper. Who knew all you had to do to stop gang violence is have the governor sign something...

Good job, De Leon. You have ended gang violence forever... :rolleyes:

...and if you believe that BS, I've got some lovely Oceanfront property in Omaha, Nebraska that I'll sell to you at a great price!!!

beemaze
10-12-2009, 9:53 AM
Arnie is the son of a Nazi whore. Adolf Hitler used democracy to enact the policies of the National Socialist Workers Party (aka Nazi party) which include gun control...

BTW, these are FACTS, and in no way meant to disparage an individual.

bodger
10-12-2009, 10:03 AM
They just don't quite work together, you know?


That's what happens when three different underling staff members write the signing statements for three different bills.

I doubt if Arnie even read the damn bills. I doubt even more if he has any clue how many of us called and faxed.

Paladin
10-12-2009, 10:06 AM
When the gov't no longer punishes criminals after their crimes the way they deserve (e.g., death penalty for simple murder, not need for "special circumstances" (contra Furman decision)), that gives them an excuse to say they need to regulate (control) more and more of our lives to prevent crimes. This requiring the rise of the administrative state -- an important step towards totalitarianism in both political structure and, even more importantly, in a change in our mindset about the appropriate role of the civil government in our country.

The paternal ("only the military and police should have guns") and maternal (e.g., welfare, heath care, day care, "First Five", etc) state fosters (through government schools) and requires an infantile populace.

Harley Quinn
10-12-2009, 10:07 AM
Was a no brainer for some of us:eek:

Regards

jrr
10-12-2009, 10:09 AM
Our Governor fancies himself a great negotiator and statesman. But the truth is he is a laughing stock. The Dems in this state hate him with a passion yet he continues to try and woo them by supporting bills that are against everything the party that elected him believes in. They know by now that when he threatens to veto a bunch of bills until something happens that it is just a bluff. All they have to do is wait him out, he folds EVERY single damn time. The man is a failure, and after the latest round of terrible bills signed into law I will make it my mission to ensure he isn't elected to so much as a PTA board position.

thomasanelson
10-12-2009, 10:10 AM
It is sad to see the end of liberty as it succumbs to the delusion of a little temporary safety.

JoeC
10-12-2009, 10:13 AM
Funny, his letter has all the same stupid talking points we've heard before. I wouldn't be surprised if DeLeon signed it and wrote that letter.

Public safety with no .50cal. lol
Great job 'douche-inator'

M.45
10-12-2009, 10:13 AM
Arnold is now a joke.

GraveTrain
10-12-2009, 10:21 AM
Just making sure I'm not missing something here...

The line that divides criminal behavior and law abiding is pretty clear. A member of a "street gang" or a "violent parolee" has already knowingly crossed that line. If someone has made the decision to use a handgun in the commission of a crime, illegally BUYING ammunition seems pretty inconsequential when owning a gun as a convicted felon is already a crime.

Expect criminals to get more creative and aggressive in their search for ammunition. More legislation that restricts law abiding citizens.

Reading through AB962 can I assume after it goes into effect that all internet sales of ammunition would therefore be banned since dealers would be unable to conduct F2F sales?

Does AB962 affect the sales of ammunition COMPONENTS?

Keep up the fight folks! Let's hope the Fed's efforts will overturn California's overly restrictive gun laws.

Sheepdog1968
10-12-2009, 10:32 AM
I can live w the new face to face stuff. I don't mean I'm happy about it. Where I am concerned is not being able to buy via mail. The obvious reason is getting good deals on prices. The other thing is getting specific ammo. For example, I have a certain type of 22 LR ammo I like. The local dealers don't carry it and I suspect it would be a hastle to order it. No problem, Cabella's carried it so I just mail ordered it. Also recently I wanted to get some of Horandy's 30 30 Leverevolution ammo. Again, local places didn't have it and I wasn't buying much so I just mail ordered it. Come Feb 2011 I won't be able to do that. It will just make things more annoying in situations like that

armygunsmith
10-12-2009, 10:37 AM
What a crock..... Great way to screw over law abiding citizens. I'm so tired of this state's bull that I consider moving to a free state. Unfortunately, that does nothing to fight against this kind of bad legislation.

JoeC
10-12-2009, 10:56 AM
Leaving does fight it indirectly. Ultimately all it does is bring the state to ruin. Productive citizens leave. Less taxes and revenue, more illegals, more welfare, and horrid bureaucrats who don't equate the states failure with their own failure.

Sometimes something has to be completely broken before it can be remade with all the trash removed.

ImpliedConsent
10-12-2009, 12:25 PM
Leaving does fight it indirectly. Ultimately all it does is bring the state to ruin. Productive citizens leave. Less taxes and revenue, more illegals, more welfare, and horrid bureaucrats who don't equate the states failure with their own failure.

Sometimes something has to be completely broken before it can be remade with all the trash removed.
There are many productive citizens who simply don't share our views on liberty, whether due to their limited understanding, nearsightedness, or philosophical convictions to the contrary. None of this limits their ability to be productive.

If we leave CA to them, rather than fighting the injustices they promote, will we all just pack up and leave every time someone challenges our rights?

Patriots stand and fight - because all that is necessary for evil to triumph in the world is for good men to stand by and do nothing.

If you wish to leave, feel free - I have no right to tell you what to do. I can say this though: if you think you're fighting by desertion, you're deluding yourself, and sowing discontent by arguing that others would do well to give up, too.

problemchild
10-12-2009, 12:39 PM
I THE GOVERNOR AM BANNING ALL BULLETS IN THE NAME OF PUBLIC SAFETY. UNRELATED TO THAT ASININE MOVE I WILL OPEN THE PRISONS AND SET THE CRIMINALS FREE IN THE NAME OF PUBLIC FINANCE NOT SAFETY. SO BASICALLY I AM FULL OF CHIT

postal16
10-12-2009, 12:46 PM
I should have voted for Gary Coleman!

5hundo
10-12-2009, 1:18 PM
I should have voted for Gary Coleman!

...or the stripper.

What was her name, again? I forget... :confused:

bodger
10-12-2009, 1:27 PM
There are many productive citizens who simply don't share our views on liberty, whether due to their limited understanding, nearsightedness, or philosophical convictions to the contrary. None of this limits their ability to be productive.

If we leave CA to them, rather than fighting the injustices they promote, will we all just pack up and leave every time someone challenges our rights?

Patriots stand and fight - because all that is necessary for evil to triumph in the world is for good men to stand by and do nothing.

If you wish to leave, feel free - I have no right to tell you what to do. I can say this though: if you think you're fighting by desertion, you're deluding yourself, and sowing discontent by arguing that others would do well to give up, too.

I'm leaving because for me, this state is no longer someplace I want to live.

Gun laws aren't the only reason. I don't buyt the concept that things will be somuch better here in ten years. CG could quadruple its efforts and still not keep up with this legislative garbage.

When they come for your guns, make a break for it. I'll put you up at my place in Arizona until you can regroup.

blackrifle242
10-12-2009, 1:42 PM
Where I am at a total lose, is in our current state of border line bankruptcy. Our elected officials are sitting there putting together FUBARed gun, dog fighting, lottery, etc. bills that only increase the cash crunch. They now need to create a program for the DOJ to keep track of ammo sales. Last time I checked quickbooks doesn't sell something like that at staples. $$$$$$$ The other sad part is that we all as 2A supporters are spending millions to fight something we should never have to fight for.

Legasat
10-12-2009, 1:55 PM
local governments have demonstrated that requiring ammunition vendors to keep records on ammunition sales improves public safety

Yeah right... Wrong AGAIN Arnie!!!

Blackhawk556
10-12-2009, 2:20 PM
what a sack of $ h i t

chris
10-12-2009, 2:22 PM
i knew he was gonna sign. it just shows that politicians across the country and this state are not listening to the people.

Ding126
10-12-2009, 2:28 PM
They will keep ammunition out of the hands of criminals, felons etc. Just like they are winning the war on drugs..If there's a need..theres a market.

All I have to say is Road Trip!

Justintoxicated
10-12-2009, 2:37 PM
Moreover, this type of recordkeeping is no more intrusive for law abiding citizens than similar laws governing pawnshops or the sale of cold medicine. Unfortunately, even the most successful local program is flawed; without a statewide law, felons can easily skirt the record keeping requirements of one city by visiting another. Assembly Bill 962 will fix this problem by mandating that all ammunition vendors in the state keep records on ammunition sales.

[/FONT] [/indent]

If the criminals can buy Unregistered Hand Guns, and illegal assault weapons, what makes you think they can't get ammo from places other than walmart or the local gun shop?

How does this prevent criminals from bringing in ammo from out of state? How does it prevent them from getting a buddy to buy ammo for them? Do most criminals even use the internet to buy their ammo?

Cold Medicine didn't sky rocket in price, and there isn't the supply / demand issues with cold medicine that we face with ammo! Arnold do you realize you pretty much just doubled or tippled the cost of ammo? 45 ammo is already going for 60 cents a shot for ball ammo local, where you can still get it much cheaper on the net, more regulations is only going to drive the price even higher here. I probably sacved $500 already this year ordering ammo from online vs supporting the price gouging local vendors.


Well I know I won't be buying California Handgun ammo once this bill goes into effect...

Blackhawk556
10-12-2009, 2:43 PM
this is how i feel right now, i posted it last night but man I am mad right now
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YersIyzsOpc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YersIyzsOpc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

IrishPirate
10-12-2009, 2:46 PM
and what's to stop criminals from driving to Nevada or Oregon??? better yet, what's to stop them from using shotguns more often. There's about 200 boxes of the stuff sitting on open shelfs at walmart any day of the week!!! it's untraceable back to the gun it came out of, it's cheap, and it's increadibly effective!!!! why are we burdening handgun owners? how about we all form the calguns militia and not have to worry about this crap anymore??

bodger
10-12-2009, 2:50 PM
this is how i feel right now, i posted it last night but man I am mad right now
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YersIyzsOpc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YersIyzsOpc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


LOL. Jeez, I'm pissed, but I don't need a shot of Thorazine yet...:43:

joelberg
10-12-2009, 3:19 PM
Our Governor fancies himself a great negotiator and statesman. But the truth is he is a laughing stock. The Dems in this state hate him with a passion yet he continues to try and woo them by supporting bills that are against everything the party that elected him believes in. They know by now that when he threatens to veto a bunch of bills until something happens that it is just a bluff. All they have to do is wait him out, he folds EVERY single damn time. The man is a failure, and after the latest round of terrible bills signed into law I will make it my mission to ensure he isn't elected to so much as a PTA board position.

That's exactly what Bush did. :(

The Republican Party is dead.

Kharn
10-12-2009, 3:26 PM
where is his proof: "local governments have demonstrated that requiring ammunition vendors to keep records on ammunition sales improves public safety"? He even says I vetoed this before. That makes loads of sense. I didn't like it before, but I do now.Well, it wasn't from Maryland's "voluntary" (as in the state police would come to your shop, say volunteer to do the log or your permit to sell handguns and black rifles would not be renewed) program. IIRC no criminals were caught, but they did ask several gun owners why they, for example, bought 9mm ammo when the handgun registry says they have not bought a pistol or black rifle in that caliber.

Walmart and shops that were already on shakey ground with their handgun permits (gun from their shop ended up in a crime, etc) did the logs, the shops that were in the clear told the troopers to FOAD and refused to keep them.

7.62x54R
10-12-2009, 3:32 PM
It is sad to see the end of liberty as it succumbs to the delusion of a little temporary safety.

agreed :(

50 Shooter
10-12-2009, 3:34 PM
What I really would like to know is...

How do all of you "stealth candidate" voters feel now?:p

You voted for him, remember that!:rolleyes:

stagman
10-12-2009, 3:45 PM
In 2015 when this law has been on the books and enforced for four years, do you think, after crime rates continue to go up, they will strike this law stating no positive effect? I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say NO!!!

Why? Because we still have a 10 round magazine limit, a 10 day waiting period, a DOJ background check, etc... Can anyone prove that any of these things has reduced gun or handgun violence in California? I would say no again. Guess what? When this law doesnt work the way they want it to, they will just make up another cockamamy law and stack it on top of the other non-effective gun laws in this statist state.

Eventually, knock-knock. "Excuse me sir, we are here to take your guns and ammunition by the order of the state of California..."

I hope that I'm wrong, but in my 28 years in this state I've seen nothing to the contrary, yet.

five.five-six
10-12-2009, 3:48 PM
usiLq-r4RgQ

nice

bomb_on_bus
10-12-2009, 3:55 PM
Whats funny is arnold actually identifies the types of people who are currently not allowed to possess ammo or firearms to justify passing this bill! Way to stay on top of laws all ready in effect:rolleyes:

wildog8812
10-12-2009, 4:01 PM
I was really hoping he got half a brain and payed attention to all the efforts that we put in with the calls, faxes, and letter. Wonder if you asked him about the new restrictions he just signed if he could name even half of them.

monaghan
10-12-2009, 4:02 PM
Did putting all that psedoephedrine behind the counter, requiring ID to purchase it curb the production of methamphetamines? No. It did not, just creates a hassle.

Peter W Bush
10-12-2009, 4:02 PM
When can we recall this A-hole?

bomb_on_bus
10-12-2009, 4:11 PM
When can we recall this A-hole?

At any time remember when Gray Davis got the boot we can do it again!

Blackhawk556
10-12-2009, 4:36 PM
At any time remember when Gray Davis got the boot we can do it again!

I don't think we can do it this time. Davis was thrown out because everyone was tired of all the blackouts. Blackouts affected everyone so everyone got together not just pro 2A citizens.

packnrat
10-12-2009, 4:59 PM
Now this law is for handgun ammo only??

All the ammo I will buy is for my rifles.


.

curtisfong
10-12-2009, 5:04 PM
All the ammo I will buy is for my rifles.


You wont find many vendors willing to ship ANY ammo into CA. One whiff of AB962 and game over.

Wild Squid
10-12-2009, 5:35 PM
Arnie is the son of a Nazi whore. Adolf Hitler used democracy to enact the policies of the National Socialist Workers Party (aka Nazi party) which include gun control...

BTW, these are FACTS, and in no way meant to disparage an individual.

So....... Arnie really is the son of a Nazi whore? :rofl:

swerv512
10-12-2009, 5:50 PM
I'm voting against Arnold from here on out...

MikeWilliamson
10-12-2009, 5:54 PM
I have signed important public safety measures to regulate the sale and transfer of .50 caliber rifles,

Is that the new language for "banning"? And didn't .510 DTC replace .50 BMG in CA? (Though I STILL think you should rename it .499 Feinstein or .499 Schwarzenegger, just cuz:43:)

And I'll ship ammo to friends in CA. I live in IN. Not illegal here, and interstate commerce clause means Commiefornia can FOAD.

I wonder how hard it will be to get things like 7.5X54 French or old black powder cartridge loads.

But really, there comes a point where a smart man realizes the war is unwinnable and strategically withdraws to where he can be the most effective. Suicide is glamorous in stories, but generally pointless in the real world. The Free State project could use you. So could several other states.

advocatusdiaboli
10-12-2009, 7:14 PM
local governments have demonstrated that requiring ammunition vendors to keep records on ammunition sales improves public safety"

I posted in another thread but I didn't realize this one start several hours earlier. So I'll repeat myself here...

What is positive for me in all of this (beside the possibility of a counter attack based on interstate commerce and carriers) is that his explanation gives us insights into how our opposition got the job done. Some group of people assembled statistics and built an argument that this restriction promotes public safety. They must have drawn stats from communities that have such similar restrictions and extrapolated the results to California. I, for one, was not aware they doing this in their lobbying efforts--I never saw or heard any stats in the news or here about it. If we'd known, we could have taken the stats and look more objectively at them to see if we could sink their story. But as it was their story, unchallenged by us because we didn't know of it, sailed through the governors ear unchallenged. And he bought it hook, line, and sinker as the old saw goes. Perhaps he'd already made up his mind anyway--we'll never know, but I think we were outfoxed this time.

We mobilized the base and waged a good grass roots campaign but that brute force tactic is ineffective against an effective lobby with access and a study or two supporting their point of view. The governor knew how we felt, but he felt it trumped by the convincing public safety study(s). I'd like to get my hands on them to see how they did it because I wonder if the data are, on their face, all that convincing and if the study periods were all that long. We are going to have to be a lot more clever from now on. Brute force mobilizations aren't guaranteed to win the day any more. We need to fight fire with fire.

I acknowledge their cleverness. They won this round. But it is one battle not the whole war and maybe we've gained valuable intelligence from this one.

Nobama4us
10-12-2009, 7:26 PM
(B) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition designed
and intended for use in a handgun to a person under 21 years of
age. As used in this subparagraph, “ammunition” means handgun
ammunition as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323. Where
ammunition or reloaded ammunition may be used in both a rifle
and a handgun, it may be sold to a person who is at least 18 years
of age, but less than 21 years of age, if the vendor reasonably
believes that the ammunition is being acquired for use in a rifle
and not a handgun.

Following that logic, I have a 9mm and 45ACP rifle and therefore not obliged to participate in this tomfoolery.

rolo
10-12-2009, 7:33 PM
I acknowledge their cleverness. They won this round. But it is one battle not the whole war and maybe we've gained valuable intelligence from this one.

AD, I find your posts interesting and well thought out, but there is no evidence for your position.There was no cleverness involved. They didn't win through superior facts or presentation, this was a dealmaker, plain and simple. The verbiage of the signing statement is such because it sounds better than:

I, The Arnold, signed this bill because I got DeLeon's word he would focus on fiscal issues in the future instead of putting this bill on my desk again for the fifth time.

He "gave" us two vetos. He thought we wouldn't whine too much because two is always better than none, right?

advocatusdiaboli
10-12-2009, 7:40 PM
ollowing that logic, I have a 9mm and 45ACP rifle and therefore not obliged to participate in this tomfoolery.

Nice idea but it wont work long--the burden of the decision is not on you--it is on the vendor: "if the vendor reasonably believes that the ammunition is being acquired for use in a rifle and not a handgun". So they'll take one vendor who is selling dual purpose centerfire ammo a little to liberally for their tastes and persecute and bankrupt them as an example. Then all other vendors faced with toeing their line or bankruptcy will take the safe road.

Just like a lot of vendors will stop selling all ammo on-line to Californians. Few want to mess with Cal DOJ--their sales aren't important enough for the risk--I am assuming since Cal accounts for 10% of the US gun market it is probably 10% of the ammo market at most as well.

SPROCKET
10-12-2009, 7:41 PM
These records have allowed law enforcement to arrest and prosecute persons who
have no business possessing firearms and ammunition: gang members, violent parolees, second and third strikers, and even people previously serving time in state prison for murder.

Err... So let me get this straight; we have to restrict ammunition sales to keep the public safe from known scumbags the government has released onto the streets? Perhaps a review of the parole and probation standards would be more in order.

advocatusdiaboli
10-12-2009, 7:45 PM
I, The Arnold, signed this bill because I got DeLeon's word he would focus on fiscal issues in the future instead of putting this bill on my desk again for the fifth time.


You may well be right though I didn't want to think so. In other words: "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one" and "never attribute to cleverness and intelligence that which can be equally explained by stupidity, laziness, backstabbing, and dumb luck".

Crud, I was so hoping there was an anti-gun Dr. Evil and Mini-Me we could take on and all there might be are mere mortals cutting back room deals. Oh wait, maybe that's better.

MikeWilliamson
10-12-2009, 7:51 PM
Just like a lot of vendors will stop selling all ammo on-line to Californians. Few want to mess with Cal DOJ--their sales aren't important enough for the risk--I am assuming since Cal accounts for 10% of the US gun market it is probably 10% of the ammo market at most as well.


The knife industry had this issue in the early 90s. Sportsman's Guide, Edge Co, Smoky Mountain and a few others caved to a COUNTY prosecutor and paid extortion money on the close order of $500K each rather than be prosecuted in CA.

When they sent a letter to Atlanta Cutlery, Bill Adams called them up, read them the relevant GA statutes on extortion, told them if they had any issue with how he did business they could drive to GA and he'd have the state police waiting to arrest them, and to FOAD. End of issue.

That's why SG STILL won't sell ammo, blades, various other stuff in certain zips. They're cowards.

CA LAW HAS NO STANDING IN ANY OTHER STATE. Compliance with local laws is purchaser's responsibility.

Now, if the CA AG would like to mail me a (updated monthly) list of everyone in CA who is not eligible to buy the products I sell, I will consider complying with it as a courtesy to him. Otherwise, he can FOAD. If it's legal under federal law and IN law, I'm in the clear. The recipient may have a problem, but that's not my problem.

Same reason I love using a certain online payment method for weapons;-) If they don't know, they can't complain, and they can FOAD.:)

advocatusdiaboli
10-12-2009, 7:53 PM
Perhaps a review of the parole and probation standards would be more in order.

Not for the state--parole and prison cost money, while ammo sales make money for the state. Plus these new restrictions have made ammo scarce and will eventually drive up the price 4 maybe 5 times--so that's 5 times the sales tax revenue since it's based on a percentage of the price. Not saying they thought of that a head of time, I doubt they did, but I am sure they'll like it a lot.

Iowegian
10-12-2009, 7:54 PM
:eek:

c) For purposes of this section, "ammunition" shall include, but
not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks.

Bullets, magazines and speed loaders????

rolo
10-12-2009, 7:57 PM
Bullets, magazines and speed loaders????

Stop that. Read this:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3185752#post3185752

guntntteacher
10-12-2009, 8:11 PM
Well all I got to say is I knew it was coming from Arnieeee. He is trying to please the obama administration so he gets a post. Restricting Ammo is Obama's first step. So, why not try it in california and see what happens. Arniee followed suit and agreed.

oldironpants
10-12-2009, 10:50 PM
Even though AB962 passed and we're all upset about it, this guy has GOT to go in the next election. Don't lose sight of his clear, stated agenda within his statement on this (emphasis added in the quote):

As Governor, I have sought the appropriate balance between public safety and the right to keep and bear arms. I have signed important public safety measures to regulate the sale and transfer of .50 caliber rifles, instituted the California Firearms License Check program, and promoted the use of microstamping technology in handguns. I have also vetoed many pieces of legislation that sought to place unreasonable restrictions and burdens on firearms dealers and ammunition vendors.

Assembly Bill 962 reasonably regulates access to ammunition and improves public safety without placing undue burdens on consumers. For these reasons, I am pleased to sign this bill."

It isn't over yet and there are more battles to be fought in the legislature against this knuckle dragger.:mad: He's certainly shown his hand now.

SecondAmendmentgirl
10-13-2009, 8:34 PM
This new law that has just passed is another hit on the hammer that drives the stake into the heart of 2nd amendment supporters. There is an argument about how this will really affect us. It will. On different levels.

The point for me is that we are becoming more like the UK every day. For those who think that there are this will only affect gun owners in a small way are incorrect. What's more significant is how, inch by inch, we lose more rights. One law builds upon another. The supreme court held up the constitutionality of the second amendment, but no one has fought under the reasoning that if ammunition is limited, or in fact, anything that is integral to being able to freely own and shoot a weapon, then our second amendment rights might as well be forfeit.

We're becoming Britain. Shotguns are considered to be able to hold only 2 cartriges + 1 in the chamber. Anything more, you need a firearms license, which is then up to the discretion of the police to approve or deny depending on your reasons. Self Defense is not a valid reason. You must have a sporting club membership, or have a work reason. The men in the UK have been reduced to feminine renditions of their former selves through these laws that chip away at their gun laws. The sun no longer sets on the British empire and there's a reason for it. It's a country being run by di**less whiners and California is following suit.

Midtown Gunner
10-13-2009, 9:16 PM
Everything he's done makes perfect sense when you look at who he married. More than anything else, Arnold wants to be a Kennedy.

bodger
10-13-2009, 9:59 PM
He is a Kennedy. At home for sure. And everywhere else, most likely.

MidnightSon117
10-14-2009, 8:04 PM
Charlton Heston should have boxed Arnold's ears in True Lies

ElToro
10-14-2009, 8:43 PM
speaking of ms. skeletor, she gets caught on tape for the 2nd time breaking another lame *** liberty infringeing law and is she going to get a ticket ? im holding my breath...

i voted for McClintock. my conscious is clear. if i wasnt upside down on my house, id move to free america in a minute. maybe when the economy improves. oh yeah didnt you hear ? the recession is officialy over. unless your one of 12% "officially" unemployed in PRK or worse in other states.

politicians...i wouldnt walk across the street to pis$ on any of them if they were on fire.

Steve O
10-14-2009, 8:48 PM
So is there a number restriction on amount of ammo you can buy?
And is FTF private sales restricted?