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View Full Version : Will stores stop selling ammo?


Waldog
10-12-2009, 8:10 AM
The profit margin on ammo is very small. AB962 did not provide any state funding for this program. Costs associated with the FU'd law fall directly on the seller. Seller's have to display ammo so that the customer has no access. Seller's have to fund all the paperwork. Seller's have to pay for the manpower to follow the law.

Don't you see a future where they will just stop selling ammo? I'm guessing retail sources for ammo will drop by 60%-70%.

woodsman
10-12-2009, 8:11 AM
This may kill Walmart sales in Komifornia. Not that I have seen much aside from shotgun shells as of late.

8-Ball
10-12-2009, 8:13 AM
Wal-Mart stopped selling guns because they couldn't handle the paperwork...

How will ammo be different...?

CSACANNONEER
10-12-2009, 8:14 AM
This may kill Walmart sales in Komifornia. Not that I have seen much aside from shotgun shells as of late.

Yep. They will probably stop all handgun ammo sales soon.

rtlltj
10-12-2009, 8:15 AM
My guess is that they stop ammunition sales all together.

Dr Rockso
10-12-2009, 8:16 AM
I suspect that, if this law goes into effect, there will be very few non-FFLs that sell handgun ammo in CA. Ranges will still sell ammo regardless of if they sell guns, but WM will almost certainly be getting out of the handgun ammo business (and perhaps the ammo business altogether). No way they're going to trust some 18 year old high school dropout employee to avoid violating state law by leaving a case of handgun ammo unattended or neglecting to take a fingerprint.

1859sharps
10-12-2009, 8:18 AM
with places like walmart, possibly. But this is a "monopoly" now. they no longer would have out of state mail order competition. odds are the profits would more then cover the paperwork and a simple reorganization of their displays.

U2BassAce
10-12-2009, 8:22 AM
Yep. They will probably stop all handgun ammo sales soon.

No doubt (there is no way they will put up with the paperwork requirements for ammo) and I would not be surprised if they stop selling ammo all together in California.

spitkiss
10-12-2009, 8:45 AM
I think when forced to make a decision between training someone to take a fingerprint and just not selling ammo because of the training overhead, big box stores will choose the latter. I hope I'm wrong but lately, even simple things like getting a fishing/hunting license at a place like "big 5" confuses the hell out of the cashier and usually requires manager intervention. At some point, they're it's just not going to bother...

sd_shooter
10-12-2009, 8:55 AM
Why would anyone in CA get out of selling ammo now? It's now twice the gold mine it was before, and ammo was already marked up 100% at places like Turners:

Magtech 9mm $18/box of 50
Blazer Brass .40 $22/box of 50

Now that they have you by the balls you'll be paying even more!

woodsman
10-12-2009, 8:57 AM
Why would anyone in CA get out of selling ammo now? It's now twice the gold mine it was before, and ammo was already marked up 100% at places like Turners:

Magtech 9mm $18/box of 50
Blazer Brass .40 $22/box of 50

Now that they have you by the balls you'll be paying even more!

I won't. I will buy all my ammo or reloading components when I am out of state.

foxtrotuniformlima
10-12-2009, 9:18 AM
Relax everyone. Go read the topic stared by BWiese
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=230676

wash
10-12-2009, 9:22 AM
They will keep selling up to the deadline.

If we can beat AB962 in the courts before it goes in to effect, it will be as if it never happened. If it's real close we might have a short ammo shortage when the retailers have stopped re-ordering stock before we get the law struck down.

X-NewYawker
10-12-2009, 9:22 AM
Wal-Mart stopped selling guns because they couldn't handle the paperwork...

How will ammo be different...?

Just ran to my Walmart and bought 200 rounds of Shotgun shells ($20 per 100 for Federal bulk packs) but that's basically one session of Sporting Clays at BBB -- If I had the jack I would have bought 100 cases. My prediction is within a few days whatever ammo was still on the shelves in local gunstores will evaporate.

Vin496
10-12-2009, 9:27 AM
Just ran to my Walmart and bought 200 rounds of Shotgun shells ($20 per 100 for Federal bulk packs) but that's basically one session of Sporting Clays at BBB -- If I had the jack I would have bought 100 cases. My prediction is within a few days whatever ammo was still on the shelves in local gunstores will evaporate.

Yep, everyone is going to run out and start hoarding again. Stores will then start jacking up prices and even watch the online places start having a "California" price, for whatever extra hoops they will claim they have to deal with.

blackrifle242
10-12-2009, 10:02 AM
I have 25 rounds of .45 ACP for $250.00. Any takers???

joaoalegre
10-12-2009, 8:20 PM
well, we have no choice but to start doing our "pilgramage" outside the People's Republik of Kalifornia:
1. travel to walmarts just outside the Nazi Kalifornia,
2. load the trunk with ammo,
3. and best of all LEAVE the sales tax money on the host "nation".

for reloaders, buy NOTHING in kalifornia, as the gov't will only use that tax money against us.

devildog999
10-12-2009, 8:46 PM
I get the feeling places like wal*mart will stop. One, all ammo would have to be locked up. Two, they would have to start keeping records and fingerprints; it's not worth it for them to do this stuff. DeLeon knew this when he wrote this bill

imtheomegaman
10-12-2009, 8:47 PM
Relax everyone. Go read the topic stared by BWiese
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=230676

We are strong, and should and will continue to fight. However the anti's in conjunction with the 'apathetics' are stronger. Passage of this abomination is proof of that.

Trakker
10-12-2009, 9:03 PM
buying gas will require valid cdl

five.five-six
10-12-2009, 9:06 PM
Why would anyone in CA get out of selling ammo now? It's now twice the gold mine it was before, and ammo was already marked up 100% at places like Turners:

Magtech 9mm $18/box of 50
Blazer Brass .40 $22/box of 50

Now that they have you by the balls you'll be paying even more!

I came here to say that

what does the store care if you get ink on your thumb?

Sharpasacrayon
10-12-2009, 9:06 PM
The Walmarts in Alameda County stopped selling ALL ammo over two years ago...

fullrearview
10-12-2009, 9:37 PM
Yep. They will probably stop all handgun ammo sales soon.

Other than .25, ours already has!

tenpercentfirearms
10-12-2009, 9:38 PM
As an ammunition vendor, it makes more sense for me to sell ammo in a limited market. If you don't like my price, then you can always order it online. Oh wait, no you can't. You don't like my price? Then order your bullets online and reload them yourself. Oh wait you can't.

This bill did nothing to help the consumer save money that is for darn sure. In the short term if a new ammo panic starts, it usually hurts the mom and pop FFL because consumers spend all of their money on ammo, not guns. When consumers feel like buying a pistol, they pass because it is a paper weight when you can't find ammo for it.

Roadrunner
10-12-2009, 9:45 PM
According to someone who who IM'd Cam Edwards on NRA News, Wal-Mart will not sell any ammo in california starting next year or after all of their inventory is gone, which ever comes first.

Sheepdog1968
10-12-2009, 9:47 PM
I suspect more people to apply for FFLs so they can buy ammo for themselves. In the 80's and early 90's FFLs were easy to obtain.

SickofSoCal
10-12-2009, 9:49 PM
Will stores stop selling ammo?

That would be a big YES

joaoalegre
10-12-2009, 10:06 PM
I suspect more people to apply for FFLs so they can buy ammo for themselves. In the 80's and early 90's FFLs were easy to obtain.

not so fast ...
they now require a "legitimate biz" storefront ... so they called ... in the 80s & 90s there was a brainwashing that "kitchen counter" FFLs kills people.

it's simply called killing its own industries ... and therefore, its own tax basis.
what happened to ANY California-based handgun manufacturer? they are ALL called saturday-night specials manufacturer.

so they simply take their business out of the state, where NO Cal-OSHA bugs them ... and walla ... no more CA State Income tax ...

dchang0
10-12-2009, 10:23 PM
Why would anyone in CA get out of selling ammo now? It's now twice the gold mine it was before, and ammo was already marked up 100% at places like Turners:

Magtech 9mm $18/box of 50
Blazer Brass .40 $22/box of 50

Now that they have you by the balls you'll be paying even more!

Yes, but that assumes that quantities sold will remain constant as prices increase. If California retailers crank up the ammo prices even more, they'll see quantities sold roll off dramatically as fewer and fewer buyers are willing and able to pay. At some point, they would be selling so few units as to make it highly unprofitable for them to sell at all, and then they would get out.

They cover this stuff in the chapter in college/high school economics on price ceilings and price floors. Essentially, the government has created a price floor through regulation and taxation. Raise the price floor high enough and it chokes the market to death. The biggest problem with this particular price-floor-by-taxation/regulation is that the additional profits don't go to the gun shops/retailers. It goes to the state, so the gun shops have little incentive to increase supply as the price rises.

So, I predict initial surpluses of ammo as the price rises (caused by fewer buyers biting at those prices), followed by a sharp drop in ammo supplies as retailers get entirely out of the business, followed by a period of stabilization whereby buyers get accustomed to having far fewer suppliers (willing to tough it out) AND accustomed to paying a much higher average price.

LUCKILY, the free-market's automatic solution to price floors (and ceilings) is a BLACK MARKET. Wikipedia's definition sums it up nicely:

"Black markets can form part of border trade near the borders of neighboring jurisdictions with little or no border control if there are substantially different tax rates, or where goods are legal on one side of the border but not on the other. "

Can someone say, "trips to Nevada and Arizona?" Tee hee!

SickofSoCal
10-12-2009, 10:31 PM
Yes, but that assumes that quantities sold will remain constant as prices increase. If California retailers crank up the ammo prices even more, they'll see quantities sold roll off dramatically as fewer and fewer buyers are willing and able to pay. At some point, they would be selling so few units as to make it highly unprofitable for them to sell at all, and then they would get out.

They cover this stuff in the chapter in college/high school economics on price ceilings and price floors. Essentially, the government has created a price floor through regulation and taxation. Raise the price floor high enough and it chokes the market to death. The biggest problem with this particular price-floor-by-taxation/regulation is that the additional profits don't go to the gun shops/retailers. It goes to the state, so the gun shops have little incentive to increase supply as the price rises.

So, I predict initial surpluses of ammo as the price rises (caused by fewer buyers biting at those prices), followed by a sharp drop in ammo supplies as retailers get entirely out of the business, followed by a period of stabilization whereby buyers get accustomed to having far fewer suppliers (willing to tough it out) AND accustomed to paying a much higher average price.

LUCKILY, the free-market's automatic solution to price floors (and ceilings) is a BLACK MARKET. Wikipedia's definition sums it up nicely:

"Black markets can form part of border trade near the borders of neighboring jurisdictions with little or no border control if there are substantially different tax rates, or where goods are legal on one side of the border but not on the other. "

Can someone say, "trips to Nevada and Arizona?" Tee hee!

Ah ha, you forgot one new aspect: new gun owners.

Anyone want to guess how many new (or "reborn" or "re-active") gun owners there are in California since late 2008?

And all of them want ammo.

Dr Rockso
10-12-2009, 10:36 PM
not so fast ...
they now require a "legitimate biz" storefront ... so they called ... in the 80s & 90s there was a brainwashing that "kitchen counter" FFLs kills people.
Not for 03 FFLs, which are also exempt from AB 962 so long as they have a COE.

team1320
10-12-2009, 10:48 PM
the more threads like this i read the more i dislike nazi cali... even tough i can never truly hate it cause it's my home, it really bums me out and makes me mad...

5ohguy
10-12-2009, 11:23 PM
In another thread I talked about a conversation I had with 2 Walmart employees months before ab962 passed. They said the remaining Walmarts that sell ammo had been talking about getting out of ammo sales all together because of low volume. They said ab962 would pretty much seal the deal. With the added paperwork, store space, training, ect... it just wouldn't be worth it to carry ammo.

Wait until you see prices when the low cost competitors (Walmart and online sales) are out of the picture.

ap3572001
10-12-2009, 11:27 PM
What about buying ammo somewhere else......?

dchang0
10-12-2009, 11:38 PM
Ah ha, you forgot one new aspect: new gun owners.

Anyone want to guess how many new (or "reborn" or "re-active") gun owners there are in California since late 2008?

And all of them want ammo.

Dude, it doesn't matter how many new gun owners there are if the prices are too high for them to pay.

Sort of like how the housing bubble brought tons of new home buyers into the market (renters who had never ever even dreamed of buying a home were hearing from their friends about rapidly-climbing equity values and suddenly got into the housing market, hoping to make a mint). Eventually, the prices got so high that no one could afford to actually buy/keep houses, and so we had the crash, followed by a long drawn-out surplus of overpriced houses, failing mortgage banks, and failing home builders.

Same thing will happen with ammo. The new gun owners will buy at first, helping the initial run-up started by the hoarders, and sellers will keep pace, but the prices will get too high, and then the new gun owners (not likely to be frequent shooters) will decide that their little stash of 200rnds is enough and won't buy any more (along with the high-volume shooters who will have found ways around the law), and CRASH, the sellers will find themselves with a surplus of overpriced ammo. Then, we'll have what the economists call a consolidation period where poorly-run or razor-thin-margin suppliers shut down or are bought out by stronger higher-margin suppliers, etc., etc., eventually resulting in a fewer number of ammo suppliers selling ammo at a higher average price than now.

It's the clever shooters who have found ways around the law that will make the difference. Going back to the housing analogy--many real estate people predicted that as people lost their homes, rents would increase as they moved into apartments. But they didn't account for a third possibility: people moving back home with their parents or moving multiple families into one single house. These people simple got out of the housing/rental market entirely by moving into their parents' homes which are mostly completely bought and paid for. It's like these families simply fell off the map. Likewise, the clever shooters will have gotten out of California's regulated/overpriced ammo market too-probably forever, at least until the CGF overturns the law.

So my prediction stands as is. I say that Walmart is getting out of the biz but that tougher, DEDICATED suppliers like Ammo Bros. in Cerritos will remain, though their ammo will be more expensive than it already is. It won't be impossibly unaffordable, but it'll be higher for sure. And most of us will have found some combination of reloading, buying out of state, and shooting less often to not have to pay those prices.

*BTW, I don't think the ammo price rise and crash will be nearly as dramatic as the housing market. It'll be there, but it won't be as spectacular. Hoarding will begin now and increase steadily as more and more people learn about the passage of AB962.

The really wicked thing about AB962 is that even if the rest of the country's supplies return to normal and the ammo manufacturers are able to provide a ton of supply, there will be a limited number of ways of getting it into the state (i.e., registered ammo dealers). Cutting off the internet/mail order sellers cuts off a ton of volume. Ammo vendors inside of California simply aren't as big as Walmart, Cabelas, MidwayUSA, Palmetto St. Armory, Wideners, etc., so they can't order as much ammo in as large shipments as the big boys outside. We're getting capped by economies of scale, unfortunately.

squatting_caveboy
10-12-2009, 11:41 PM
Just a few things to think about....

Ammo-only businesses/storefronts may flourish. Separating gun and ammo retail may be an interesting business strategy for those retailers still willing to comply with the new law.

Range ammo may be interpreted as "rental" vs. "purchased" since you don't keep your brass. Perhaps range-use ammo may be exempt under the new law?

Gio
10-12-2009, 11:49 PM
I say no, also how is the .gov going to figure out what 9mm and .45 is for rifles and what is not? I own a 9mm AR, so how is someone going to tell me I can only buy 50 rounds of 9mm? The same can be said as well to .223/5.56 and 7.62 since there are AR/Pistols out there as well. I do not see this law going into effect and if it does it will have limited clauses in it. There are already loopholes to it, like a C&R License that will Exempt you from the purchase limit :D So I am sure that once this gets settled there will be no AB962 or it will be very weak.

Anyone remember being asked at WW if the ammo you were getting was for a Pistol or Rifle? I always lol'd and said Rifle even though it was for my pistols.

-Gio

SickofSoCal
10-13-2009, 12:32 AM
Dude, it doesn't matter how many new gun owners there are if the prices are too high for them to pay.

Sort of like how the housing bubble brought tons of new home buyers into the market (renters who had never ever even dreamed of buying a home were hearing from their friends about rapidly-climbing equity values and suddenly got into the housing market, hoping to make a mint). Eventually, the prices got so high that no one could afford to actually buy/keep houses, and so we had the crash, followed by a long drawn-out surplus of overpriced houses, failing mortgage banks, and failing home builders.

Same thing will happen with ammo. The new gun owners will buy at first, helping the initial run-up started by the hoarders, and sellers will keep pace, but the prices will get too high, and then the new gun owners (not likely to be frequent shooters) will decide that their little stash of 200rnds is enough and won't buy any more (along with the high-volume shooters who will have found ways around the law), and CRASH, the sellers will find themselves with a surplus of overpriced ammo. Then, we'll have what the economists call a consolidation period where poorly-run or razor-thin-margin suppliers shut down or are bought out by stronger higher-margin suppliers, etc., etc., eventually resulting in a fewer number of ammo suppliers selling ammo at a higher average price than now.

It's the clever shooters who have found ways around the law that will make the difference. Going back to the housing analogy--many real estate people predicted that as people lost their homes, rents would increase as they moved into apartments. But they didn't account for a third possibility: people moving back home with their parents or moving multiple families into one single house. These people simple got out of the housing/rental market entirely by moving into their parents' homes which are mostly completely bought and paid for. It's like these families simply fell off the map. Likewise, the clever shooters will have gotten out of California's regulated/overpriced ammo market too-probably forever, at least until the CGF overturns the law.

So my prediction stands as is. I say that Walmart is getting out of the biz but that tougher, DEDICATED suppliers like Ammo Bros. in Cerritos will remain, though their ammo will be more expensive than it already is. It won't be impossibly unaffordable, but it'll be higher for sure. And most of us will have found some combination of reloading, buying out of state, and shooting less often to not have to pay those prices.

*BTW, I don't think the ammo price rise and crash will be nearly as dramatic as the housing market. It'll be there, but it won't be as spectacular. Hoarding will begin now and increase steadily as more and more people learn about the passage of AB962.

The really wicked thing about AB962 is that even if the rest of the country's supplies return to normal and the ammo manufacturers are able to provide a ton of supply, there will be a limited number of ways of getting it into the state (i.e., registered ammo dealers). Cutting off the internet/mail order sellers cuts off a ton of volume. Ammo vendors inside of California simply aren't as big as Walmart, Cabelas, MidwayUSA, Palmetto St. Armory, Wideners, etc., so they can't order as much ammo in as large shipments as the big boys outside. We're getting capped by economies of scale, unfortunately.

No, no, no. What I meant was, all the new gun owners (along with all the rest of us), in conjunction with ammo shortage = even worse high prices then normal.


Guess I should have clarified, and I agree with everything else you said.

joelberg
10-13-2009, 2:27 AM
I think they'll just double the price of ammo and keep selling.

MP301
10-13-2009, 2:51 AM
Wal-Mart stopped selling guns because they couldn't handle the paperwork...

How will ammo be different...?

Walmart stopped selling guns as an agreement to avoid prosecution for not properly training thier employees to do the paperwork required . Its not rocket science!

Walmart already has thier ammo displayed properly as to not be readily accessable to customers...behind the counter or in a locked case...at least ALL of the walmarts I have ever been in have it this way.

As things are written in the end result of AB962 that passed, all you need to do is have a piece of paper that has the required info on it, look at someones ID, have them put a thumbprint on it and then take that worthless piece of paper and stuff it in a box for 5 years before burning it. It doesnt say that it has to be filed or stored in any special way, so when someone comes to look at it, they will have to go through every worthless piece of paper, every time.

CALPsidewinder
10-13-2009, 3:25 AM
Well the anti-gunners have got what they always wanted, and that is a way to destroy the retail market on guns, without actually destroying the 2nd Amend. Look at the debate that is going on in here. Some people are willing to give up and leave the state over AB962, hence that gets rid of their guns. Some people are willing to go out of state to purchase ammo, thus taking away business for California gun shops. Some have said that there is very little profit from ammo sales, whicn may be true but a person is going to think twice about buying a firearm when they can't get ammo or ammo is too pricey, therefore more and more gun retaliers may close their doors because of a lack of customers. Sure there will be a flood in the market, a buying frenzy and some retailers may make huge [but limited time] profit but in the end it will just not be affordable to purchase firearms in California. So in affect the anti-gunners have pulled their trump card and will just wait it out till the last gun store closes. It may take a decade or so but it can happen unless we can defeat this bill.

Arnold has betrayed all his conservative constituency. I hope he does not think he has a career in politics after this...oh wait yeah he does...he can go run for the Democratic Party now.

MP301
10-13-2009, 3:31 AM
Supply and demand. There will be ammo and if retailers gouge too much, then right next door, a little shop will open up to sell discount ammo. As far as I remember, you DO NOT need an FFL to sell ammo in the first place..please correct me if im wrong.

Im all for capitalism, but just watch and see what will happen if these local veders get greedy and gouge using AB962 as thier excuse. Couldnt do much about over priced ammo when it was in short supply, but when its not in short supply and someone uses the excuse that they have all this extra crazy over the top paperwork waaaaaaaaaaaa...no one with an IQ above room temperature will buy it.

I might start a freakin ammo delivery service! Face to face is all it says...not a problem. Make my rounds every week to designated locations, just put in your order the weeek before and show up to get your ammo.

What everyone needs to remember is that, even if this makes it through the court battles ahead, it really is weak and will not affect things that much. Inconvienent for those that buy ammo mail order, but get a freakin C&R and a COE and call it a day.

For that matter, if your too lazy to do that, then make nice to a legal vender (and i predict there will be plenty of them), and have your ammo shipped to them. Gee, can I pay you $10 for letting me ship my ammo to your place?

Or, sign up with the Board of equalization (resale lic), which I think is the only requirement for a vender designation as far as i know, and become a vender...I think it would be easier to get a C&R and COE, but these a all valid work aouunds to this over inflated non problem.

Some of you guys sound like they just passed a law to take your guns and get your cat pregnant. Lighten up... we will get through this...its not that big of a deal yet....

Start worrying IF it gets implemented and they start trying to add on to it a few years down the road.

Finger prints? Who cares. I know of not one single gun owner in this state that has not had thier fingerprints taken. In for a penny, in for a pound. If your not a finger print virgin, doing it again aint gonna kill ya. Sure, it sucks, but its not the end of the world either..(cept those of you on witness protection and then the mob is gonna find you!)

The horror of it! The government can track how much ammo you use and what calibers and all other sorts of scary tin foil things. Well, since there is no database, then I wish them luck digging through all those files at each and every place (and there is/will be a stupid ammount of them)that these pieces of paper are located...just to see what ive been shooting.... yeah, thats gonna happen. Heck, ask me and ill tell ya and save the trouble of searching for it.

Did any of you actually read the law that passed? Im guessing not...Why dont people read what it is they are so offended by so that they know what they should actually be offended by?

Some people ive talked to are getting so spun about this that its comical...The sky is falling! The sky is falling! STFU! Grow a pair and dont lose sight of things because of a very minor set back.... This to shall pass...followed by an injunction!

tenpercentfirearms
10-13-2009, 5:45 AM
Some points to consider.

Most gun shops don't just sell ammo, so they won't be getting out of the ammo business if sales are not brisk. I have never been able to compete with the mail order and Internet business so I don't even try. If I sell the ammo on my shelves, good, if it sits there, it is my own personal reserve. Eventually since I put it on the shelf and don't raise the price, a few years from now some guy comes in and says, "You got .300 win mag for that price! I will take it!"

Next, I can see this being a reason for Walmart to get out of the ammo business. Having to maintain records and properly training employees is a mess and can lead to further costs down the line. I doubt Walmart makes that much on ammo to begin with and the probably mainly use it as a loss leader. If Walmart gets out of the ammo business, it will be great for the local mom and pop FFL who faces Walmart as their main ammo competitor.

However, you will still always have gun shows, but heck even lately we have seen that even gun shows are not necessarily the best deals on ammo, just the places with the most in stock.

I think it is accurate to say that prices shouldn't spike that much once the supply catches up. There will always be guys who don't mind making 10% on what they sell. They either do it on the side or their overhead is low.

What I am going to be interested to see is if we have a whole new ammo panic once the majority of CA gun owners realize this thing passes. Basically I am waiting for the article in the Bakersfield Californian and after all the reactionary red necks see this, will they be storming places to try and get ammo?

Honestly, I am not panicking for my own personal supplies as we have a long time until this gets implemented and there are way too many court challenges to take. However, never underestimate the ban mentality of the populace, even if there really isn't a ban.

We are all old enough to remember the great panic of 08-09. Actually the ammo panic is still going.

It will be interesting to say the least.

freakshow10mm
10-13-2009, 6:32 AM
not so fast ...
they now require a "legitimate biz" storefront ... so they called ... in the 80s & 90s there was a brainwashing that "kitchen counter" FFLs kills people.

False. A storefront is not required for an FFL.


Range ammo may be interpreted as "rental" vs. "purchased" since you don't keep your brass. Perhaps range-use ammo may be exempt under the new law?
I think range use ammo would be treated like a gun rental at the range. It's not a transfer, you are using it on the premises. Surely there will be clarification requested on this and other issues.


If Walmart gets out of the ammo business, it will be great for the local mom and pop FFL who faces Walmart as their main ammo competitor.
This will be great for the small businesses. Trouble is regulating the industry enough to push big business out will hurt the populace. That's the only bad thing.

However, you will still always have gun shows, but heck even lately we have seen that even gun shows are not necessarily the best deals on ammo, just the places with the most in stock.
But will gun shows be exempt or will there just be the transfer paperwork too. I suppose for vendors but not for private parties, but they will either be selling from their stock or buying on paper to get it.

What I am going to be interested to see is if we have a whole new ammo panic once the majority of CA gun owners realize this thing passes.
Be interesting to see. Once they deplete CA they will head to NV and AZ and work them over.

joaoalegre
10-13-2009, 6:59 AM
Not for 03 FFLs, which are also exempt from AB 962 so long as they have a COE.

While it is true that FFL-3 plus COE will allow you to do so, I'm sure enough people are unhappy enough to not give the gov't any additional documentation.

All you really need is monthly trip to AZ/NV, AND leave you sales-tax dollars at the hosting state.