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View Full Version : Who thinks JB would have veto AB 962


Gator Monroe
10-12-2009, 9:08 AM
I have my doubts.

freonr22
10-12-2009, 9:09 AM
Jail Bait? ohh Jerry Brown

woodsman
10-12-2009, 9:09 AM
I am thinking he would have signed.

8-Ball
10-12-2009, 9:10 AM
Jeb Bush...?

Pvt. Cowboy
10-12-2009, 9:11 AM
Justin Bimberlake?

berto
10-12-2009, 9:15 AM
I have no idea what Jerry would have done but if he'd signed it we'd be in the same place we are today.

Voting for Arnold because he called himself a republican and because republicans are supposedly the protectors of the Second Amendment didn't work out so well for us.

Time to move 2A out of the republican domain.

Gator Monroe
10-12-2009, 9:19 AM
I have no idea what Jerry would have done but if he'd signed it we'd be in the same place we are today.

Voting for Arnold because he called himself a republican and because republicans are supposedly the protectors of the Second Amendment didn't work out so well for us.

Time to move 2A out of the republican domain.

Uh no It will not become a Democrat domain and advocating that (When 70% of the NRA membership nationally is GOP) IS LAUGHABLE.

Hopi
10-12-2009, 9:22 AM
Uh no It will not become a Democrat domain and advocating that (When 70% of the NRA membership nationally is GOP) IS LAUGHABLE.

I hear that the time to challenge Democrat advocates & posters here at CGN about their party is on the horizon. ;)

hoffmang
10-12-2009, 9:26 AM
I think he would have vetoed it because he's aware it has problems with Federal Law.

-Gene

nat
10-12-2009, 9:28 AM
Given his history, he would have vetoed it.

Gator Monroe
10-12-2009, 9:30 AM
Given his history, he would have vetoed it.

There would have been no Water fight thus no reason the threaten vetos.

rolo
10-12-2009, 9:31 AM
Why tie the two together? They aren't related in any way... Just because Arnold did doesn't mean they are.

uzigalil
10-12-2009, 9:33 AM
At least we know I think we have a better idea on Where Jerry Stands Arnold is a piece of crap and is all over the place.

Gator Monroe
10-12-2009, 9:36 AM
At least we know I think we have a better idea on Where Jerry Stands Arnold is a piece of crap and is all over the place.

Jerry is a Liberal Democrat (Old School) and to sugar coat him because he projects He Man 2A Outdoorsman sentements on occasion is as much of a joke to those of us who have seen JB for 30+years in politics.

FS00008
10-12-2009, 9:38 AM
Jerry Brown would have vetoed it.

Kestryll
10-12-2009, 9:39 AM
Uh no It will not become a Democrat domain and advocating that (When 70% of the NRA membership nationally is GOP) IS LAUGHABLE.

So how has that 'GOP ONLY aspect of gun rights been working for you?

If you are deluded and foolish enough to think we can change anything in this State with just Republican voters you're dumber than I thought.

We need to work together as GUN OWNERS, not as Republicans or Democrats or whatever.

As for your assertion that it's 'time to call people out', try it and see how fast your sorry butt is thrown to the curb.

nat
10-12-2009, 9:40 AM
Thing is, you voted for Arnie just because he is republican. It was always obvious he was no good to the state. Keep voting republican Gator, elections have consequences as you now see.

Gator Monroe
10-12-2009, 9:45 AM
Thing is, you voted for Arnie just because he is republican. It was always obvious he was no good to the state. Keep voting republican Gator, elections have consequences as you now see.

So voting for JB & Boxer & waxman & DeLeon is better for 2A and the state because Forum Unity is Important insted of advocating change (Sorry Kes I just remember voting for Reagan and wearing my California is Reagan Country button and knowing without a doubt he was gonna win and not fearing the Libreal Democrats in this state in the least.) but hey they are the hegeomoney now and I'm almost a lone voice in an ever increasing Firearms restricted wilderness...

M. D. Van Norman
10-12-2009, 9:48 AM
And Reagan did so much to advance the right to arms! :rolleyes:

cortayack
10-12-2009, 9:49 AM
Thing is, you voted for Arnie just because he is republican. It was always obvious he was no good to the state. Keep voting republican Gator, elections have consequences as you now see.


True...I voted for him BC I thought he would bring some change! Damn that doesn't sound right.......:eek: His first term wasn't bad! 2nd term is where he turned into a girlman........LOL! His true colors came out!!!!!!! GOP has many rhinos in it. Libertarian party is where I've been heading for awhile......;)

Kestryll
10-12-2009, 9:50 AM
I'm almost a lone voice in an ever increasing Firearms restricted wilderness...

No, you're just another person so blinded by Party loyalty that you can not see anything beyond it.

So, how about an answer to the question you dodged?

Arnie is a Republican who I assume you voted for since he had a (R) next to his name, so how did that work for you?

nat
10-12-2009, 9:50 AM
So what fantasy land did you grow up in??

Regan took our right to loaded open carry away. Reagan was for the AWB and actively campaigned against guns.

Reagan was a gun grabber............period.

rolo
10-12-2009, 9:51 AM
I'd likely vote for Jerry Brown if an election were held today, based upon what I know about the records (a very important thing) of the candidates who have expressed an interest in running.

I remember moonbeam's first go around. I've seen what he has done since. I've paid even more attention to his actions as AG. He could have done A LOT of damage, but he has done more for the 2nd as AG with his brief than any other politician in California has ever done.

If you can't see the difference, you aren't just following the party line, you are blind.

Gator Monroe
10-12-2009, 9:52 AM
So how has that 'GOP ONLY aspect of gun rights been working for you?

If you are deluded and foolish enough to think we can change anything in this State with just Republican voters you're dumber than I thought.

We need to work together as GUN OWNERS, not as Republicans or Democrats or whatever.

As for your assertion that it's 'time to call people out', try it and see how fast your sorry butt is thrown to the curb.

Kes you live in your bubble (SF valley) And I live in mine Shasta County (Both my state Reps are GOP as is my US Congressman and state Senator and GOP only works well for us up here when politics are local.

Gator Monroe
10-12-2009, 9:54 AM
So what fantasy land did you grow up in??

Regan took our right to loaded open carry away. Reagan was for the AWB and actively campaigned against guns.

Reagan was a gun grabber............period.

and THE GOP is the Anti Party and Reagan was the Bigger Anti than most of the Democrats in the House & Senate , yadda yadda yadda .

Gator Monroe
10-12-2009, 9:55 AM
No, you're just another person so blinded by Party loyalty that you can not see anything beyond it.

So, how about an answer to the question you dodged?

Arnie is a Republican who I assume you voted for since he had a (R) next to his name, so how did that work for you?

He could have not veto the Cow Pallace bill ?

berto
10-12-2009, 9:56 AM
Uh no It will not become a Democrat domain and advocating that (When 70% of the NRA membership nationally is GOP) IS LAUGHABLE.

You're right. There's no such thing as a pro-gun dem. None exist at all. There's no room in the 2A tent for any dems. Voting for GOP candidates is the only way to safeguard the Second Amendment. GOP politicians never sell us out, they don't take gunny votes for granted, they always do our bidding, and something like AB 962 would never become law with a republican gov in Sac.

Cue Journey bro, Don't Stop Believing!

Kestryll
10-12-2009, 9:58 AM
Kes you live in your bubble (SF valley) And I live in mine Shasta County (Both my state Reps are GOP as is my US Congressman and state Senator and GOP only works well for us up here when politics are local.

In case you haven't noticed, my 'bubble' is all of California so if you want to ensconce in your County and hope it all goes away and doesn't touch you feel free, I'll be busy dealing with issues all across California.

Oh, and as for 'when politics are local'; right now many people who are NOT local to you, many of them Democrats, are fighting in Court and in Sacramento to allow restore rights your local politicos have no say over.
So be happy the Dog Catcher is a GOP man, meanwhile people from both sides of the aisle will be working to restore and protect your rights.

GuyW
10-12-2009, 9:59 AM
...you're dumber than I thought.


rules violation?
.

GuyW
10-12-2009, 10:02 AM
Thing is, you voted for Arnie just because he is republican. It was always obvious he was no good to the state. Keep voting republican Gator, elections have consequences as you now see.

Many held their noses and voted for Arnie (not me), but were under no misapprehension that he was an actual Repub nor any good.

The point was to kick out Davis, as an object lesson to Pols. The breakdown was that Arnie wasn't subsequently thrown out...

EDITED for accuracy
.

nat
10-12-2009, 10:02 AM
and THE GOP is the Anti Party and Reagan was the Bigger Anti than most of the Democrats in the House & Senate , yadda yadda yadda .


Sweet, ignore the facts. It must be nice to live in a bubble.

They do say that ignorance is bliss, enjoy!

GuyW
10-12-2009, 10:03 AM
And Reagan did so much to advance the right to arms! :rolleyes:

He didn't wimp out and call for gun control after he was shot...
.

nat
10-12-2009, 10:05 AM
Many of us held our noses and voted for Arnie, but were under no misapprehension that he was an actual Repub nor any good.

The point was to kick out Davis, as an object lesson to Pols. The breakdown was that Arnie wasn't subsequently thrown out...
.

Thing is, Davis was right about all that was going on, Enron, energy, etc.

I was no fan of Davis, but I sure liked him more than Arnie. I voted for the porn star chick :43:

By the way, that taught politicians, nothing........as evidenced by where the state is today.

chickenfried
10-12-2009, 10:11 AM
Don't look at me I voted for McClintock. You knew what you were getting with Arnold he married a Kennedy for god's sakes.

GuyW
10-12-2009, 10:13 AM
Thing is, Davis was right about all that was going on



Oh yeah - he had that tax-n-spend thang down cold...


By the way, that taught politicians, nothing........as evidenced by where the state is today.

Because they view it as a political lightening strike. Pull off one or 2 more, and they start to think its a movement...

.

Kestryll
10-12-2009, 10:13 AM
Don't look at me I voted for McClintock. You knew what you were getting with Arnold he married a Kennedy for god's sakes.

Same here.

M. D. Van Norman
10-12-2009, 10:14 AM
I voted for McClintock.

So did I.

GuyW
10-12-2009, 10:14 AM
Don't look at me I voted for McClintock. You knew what you were getting with Arnold he married a Kennedy for god's sakes.

Well, actually, I did too.

My ambivalence at the time about Arnie getting in is as previously stated, tho
(edited my previous post)
.

Bud Fox
10-12-2009, 10:16 AM
JarJar Binks?

X-NewYawker
10-12-2009, 10:19 AM
Don't look at me I voted for McClintock. You knew what you were getting with Arnold he married a Kennedy for god's sakes.

Arnold is a f***king gun owner, for Chriss'sakes! He used to shoot Trap and skeet up at Oaktree -- his has a HUGE collection of German Assault rifles -- honestly, every law abiding, tax paying gun owner should just up and move out of the state.

It's not going to be much of a state to live in a year or so anyway.

Fjold
10-12-2009, 10:21 AM
Back on topic:

Did JB come out against AB-692? He should have realized that the proposed law went against previous SCOTUS rulings that interstate commerce is the sole responsibility of the Federal government.

Hopi
10-12-2009, 10:22 AM
He didn't wimp out and call for gun control after he was shot...
.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/03/29/DI2006032901373.html
New York, N.Y.: I was unaware that Reagan supported gun control, in fact I thought he was against it. What exactly did he do in support the Brady Bill and assault weapons ban?

James and Sarah Brady: Ronald Reagan make a public policy speech at George Washington Hospital when they dedicated a new wing to him, publicly calling for passage of the Brady Law - he also made many calls to fellow Republicans in Congress for both the Brady Law and Assault Weapons Ban - additionally he signed a letter with all the living past Presidents, excluding George H.W. Bush, calling for their passage - this letter appeared in numerous papers across the country.


http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1056832.html
FORMER PRESIDENT Reagan's unqualified endorsement yesterday of a seven-day waiting period for handgun purchases was a forceful call to every member of Congress for "just plain common sense" action in name of public safety. "I am going to say it in clear, unmistakable language: I support the Brady bill, and I urge the Congress to enact it without further delay." Shortly after Mr. Reagan's appeal, White House aides let it be known that President Bush may be willing to back off his opposition as part of some legislative compromise with Congress involving proposals he wants included in an anti-crime package this year. While this apparent softening of his position on the Brady bill is good ...

Tenamaxtle
10-12-2009, 10:38 AM
Kes you live in your bubble (SF valley) And I live in mine Shasta County (Both my state Reps are GOP as is my US Congressman and state Senator and GOP only works well for us up here when politics are local.

Really, I tought McClintock (US Congressman 4th district) is from Thousand Oaks, not very local to the fourth district:rolleyes:

elSquid
10-12-2009, 10:41 AM
He didn't wimp out and call for gun control after he was shot...
.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html

Why I'm for the Brady Bill
By Ronald Reagan

"Anniversary" is a word we usually associate with happy events that we like to remember: birthdays, weddings, the first job. March 30, however, marks an anniversary I would just as soon forget, but cannot.

It was on that day 10 years ago that a deranged young man standing among reporters and photographers shot a policeman, a Secret Service agent, my press secretary and me on a Washington sidewalk.

I was lucky. The bullet that hit me bounced off a rib and lodged in my lung, an inch from my heart. It was a very close call. Twice they could not find my pulse. But the bullet's missing my heart, the skill of the doctors and nurses at George Washington University Hospital and the steadfast support of my wife, Nancy, saved my life.

Jim Brady, my press secretary, who was standing next to me, wasn't as lucky. A bullet entered the left side of his forehead, near his eye, and passed through the right side of his brain before it exited. The skills of the George Washington University medical team, plus his amazing determination and the grit and spirit of his wife, Sarah, pulled Jim through. His recovery has been remarkable, but he still lives with physical pain every day and must spend much of his time in a wheelchair.

Thomas Delahanty, a Washington police officer, took a bullet in his neck. It ricocheted off his spinal cord. Nerve damage to his left arm forced his retirement in November 1981.

Tim McCarthy, a Secret Service agent, was shot in the chest and suffered a lacerated liver. He recovered and returned to duty.

Still, four lives were changed forever, and all by a Saturday-night special -- a cheaply made .22 caliber pistol -- purchased in a Dallas pawnshop by a young man with a history of mental disturbance.

This nightmare might never have happened if legislation that is before Congress now -- the Brady bill -- had been law back in 1981.

Named for Jim Brady, this legislation would establish a national seven-day waiting period before a handgun purchaser could take delivery. It would allow local law enforcement officials to do background checks for criminal records or known histories of mental disturbances. Those with such records would be prohibited from buying the handguns.

While there has been a Federal law on the books for more than 20 years that prohibits the sale of firearms to felons, fugitives, drug addicts and the mentally ill, it has no enforcement mechanism and basically works on the honor system, with the purchaser filling out a statement that the gun dealer sticks in a drawer.

The Brady bill would require the handgun dealer to provide a copy of the prospective purchaser's sworn statement to local law enforcement authorities so that background checks could be made. Based upon the evidence in states that already have handgun purchase waiting periods, this bill -- on a nationwide scale -- can't help but stop thousands of illegal handgun purchases.

And, since many handguns are acquired in the heat of passion (to settle a quarrel, for example) or at times of depression brought on by potential suicide, the Brady bill would provide a cooling-off period that would certainly have the effect of reducing the number of handgun deaths.

Critics claim that "waiting period" legislation in the states that have it doesn't work, that criminals just go to nearby states that lack such laws to buy their weapons. True enough, and all the more reason to have a Federal law that fills the gaps. While the Brady bill would not apply to states that already have waiting periods of at least seven days or that already require background checks, it would automatically cover the states that don't. The effect would be a uniform standard across the country.

Even with the current gaps among states, those that have waiting periods report some success. California, which has a 15-day waiting period that I supported and signed into law while Governor, stopped nearly 1,800 prohibited handgun sales in 1989. New Jersey has had a permit-to-purchase system for more than two decades. During that time, according to the state police, more than 10,000 convicted felons have been caught trying to buy handguns.

Every year, an average of 9,200 Americans are murdered by handguns, according to Department of Justice statistics. This does not include suicides or the tens of thousands of robberies, rapes and assaults committed with handguns.

This level of violence must be stopped. Sarah and Jim Brady are working hard to do that, and I say more power to them. If the passage of the Brady bill were to result in a reduction of only 10 or 15 percent of those numbers (and it could be a good deal greater), it would be well worth making it the law of the land.

And there would be a lot fewer families facing anniversaries such as the Bradys, Delahantys, McCarthys and Reagans face every March 30.

-- Michael

rp55
10-12-2009, 11:01 AM
You're right. There's no such thing as a pro-gun dem. None exist at all. There's no room in the 2A tent for any dems.

While this may be true on a statewide level, it is demonstrably false on the national level. Most, if not all, of the so called "Blue Dog" Democrats are rated A or A- by the NRA. Most of them come from rural southern districts with many gun owners voting. Some of them position themselves more pro-2A than the Pubs they run against which can provide them the margin they need. Now, and this is what's important to understand, is that the Dem leadership recognizes they need to be pro-2A to keep the seat and they get a pass for not toeing the party line on gun control. This even happens at the Senatorial level, Levin of Michigan comes to mind. The way it works is that if Dems need gun owners votes to stay in power they will court them. The trick, it would seem would be to make the Dems need gun owners votes. I don't know if that is even possible in California with vast swaths of urban areas where no one shoots or owns guns and are indoctrinated when young that guns are bad. Perhaps the best tack is to invite non-shooters to the range for a day of shooting. I have drummed up more pro-2A voters that way than anything else.

berto
10-12-2009, 11:14 AM
While this may be true on a statewide level, it is demonstrably false on the national level. Most, if not all, of the so called "Blue Dog" Democrats are rated A or A- by the NRA. Most of them come from rural southern districts with many gun owners voting. Some of them position themselves more pro-2A than the Pubs they run against which can provide them the margin they need. Now, and this is what's important to understand, is that the Dem leadership recognizes they need to be pro-2A to keep the seat and they get a pass for not toeing the party line on gun control. This even happens at the Senatorial level, Levin of Michigan comes to mind. The way it works is that if Dems need gun owners votes to stay in power they will court them. The trick, it would seem would be to make the Dems need gun owners votes. I don't know if that is even possible in California with vast swaths of urban areas where no one shoots or owns guns and are indoctrinated when young that guns are bad. Perhaps the best tack is to invite non-shooters to the range for a day of shooting. I have drummed up more pro-2A voters that way than anything else.

You misread the sarcasm in my post.

GuyW
10-12-2009, 12:10 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html

Why I'm for the Brady Bill
By Ronald Reagan

...It was on that day 10 years ago that a deranged young man standing among reporters and photographers shot a policeman, a Secret Service agent, my press secretary and me on a Washington sidewalk.

-- Michael

10 years later - when he was NOT President.

At the time of the shooting, as President, he resisted any gun control laws

http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=224

.

nat
10-12-2009, 12:24 PM
10 years later - when he was NOT President.

At the time of the shooting, as President, he resisted any gun control laws

http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=224

.

Ummmmmm, don't forget the Mulford Act of 1967.

Reagan signed this law into effect, thereby taking away our right to carry loaded weapons openly.

Dr. Peter Venkman
10-12-2009, 12:25 PM
10 years later - when he was NOT President.

At the time of the shooting, as President, he resisted any gun control laws

http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=224

.

PAGING FOPA, PAGING FOPA

bwiese
10-12-2009, 12:33 PM
Did JB come out against AB-962? He should have realized that the proposed law went against previous SCOTUS rulings that interstate commerce is the sole responsibility of the Federal government.

I believe he was informed of it after the bill was on Gov's desk.
Whether any msg got to (or better yet, was heard) by Gov in the flurry was unknown.

A lotta folks keep saying "interstate commerce" concepts ban laws like this, which is not true. (For example, that claim can't be used to stop charges against those shipping illegal products into CA.) The flaw is not in the products or commerce themselves, or regulation thereof, but attempting to regulate a Federally-regulated shipper on shipping behaviors that are entirely regulated under Fed law.

The *specific* law violated is FAAAA '94 (FAA Auth Act) and which has been ruled on in similar cigarette case (Rowe) by the US Supremes.

goober
10-12-2009, 12:47 PM
James Brown?

bwiese
10-12-2009, 2:10 PM
How about the 1986 act that made new machineguns illegal? That made FA guns so expensive that their sales slowed to a trickle; if you are in a state where you can still get tax stamps, the 1986 act amounts to an economic ban.

True, though that was slapped on at the last minute at midnite to FOPA '86.

As Heller becomes more concrete, FOPA + PLCAA are really gonna help us.

I don't want NFA drama affecting RKBA for most of us - I think we can clean some of that up later, esp SBR/SBS/AOW and even suppressors.

mattmcg
10-12-2009, 2:25 PM
I realize that we're all pretty frustrated at AB962 passing and frankly, I'm pissed as well. I've been absorbing the impact of this and saving my words for another day because as they say, cooler heads always prevail. Yes it sucks but let's absorb the blow and figure out our next steps.

That said, this thread gave me an idea that I thought worthy to share. I personally have had discussions with Tom Campbell about 2A and have a few more questions into him about "shall issue", incorporation, and a few others. We'll see if and when I receive a reply.

That said, it would be nice for Calguns to put together a standardized questionnaire to be sent to politicians to gain their response. From the responses we receive back, we can make a more empirical analysis of which candidates would gain a Calguns endorsement.

I think this will help us "standardize" our candidates on 2A issues and provide a fair apples-to-apples comparison for this specific set of issues. I don't blindly vote along party lines and would appreciate specific insight into the leanings of prospective politicians. With the numbers on this forum, that can provide a more powerful voting block as a whole.

SteveH
10-12-2009, 2:59 PM
Jerry is a Liberal Democrat (Old School) and to sugar coat him because he projects He Man 2A Outdoorsman sentements on occasion is as much of a joke to those of us who have seen JB for 30+years in politics.

Correct. He's one of the old guard of the liberal democrat wing of the party. a true believer.

Alaric
10-12-2009, 3:22 PM
No, you're just another person so blinded by Party loyalty that you can not see anything beyond it.

So, how about an answer to the question you dodged?

Arnie is a Republican who I assume you voted for since he had a (R) next to his name, so how did that work for you?

My faith in CalGuns is gradually being restored.

artherd
10-12-2009, 5:11 PM
Brown would have vetoed this because as soon as it hit his desk a few well placed calls would let him know what his own in-house consul should have already made him aware - the bill violates federal law.