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View Full Version : Please legal gurus interpret new bill


MojaveWayne
10-12-2009, 7:04 AM
Sorry for new thread of many, but

Maybe some can help interpret this now law. It seems to me
looking at the amended version link posted last night

here http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090904_amended_sen_v96.html

It looks to me they moved up the date from July 2010 to Feb 2011

Also looks like they struck out the 50 round limit.

So all in all, If ammo production ever catches up to pre Obama levels
we wont have to seek ammo on the Internet

Keeping all ammo (Shotgun, and .22) will be cumbersome to keep behind counter
at some of the gun dealers I shop.

The thumb print thing i can live with. I recently spoke to a reputable dealer
and said nobody absolutely cannot currently keep track of all the DROS paperwork
at this time,

So it will be 50 times worse for ammo sales, the guy told me they would
have to rent more shop space just to store the paperwork, so some goes in the
the dumpster.

Lastly, The bill keeps stipulating "Handgun ammunition" Does this also restrict
rifle ammo sales? I just dont see this any where reading this. 22 lr, Can be considered
handgun but 22 lr is 22 Long Rifle.

Wayne

bohoki
10-12-2009, 10:42 AM
yea what is "handgun ammo"

there are handguns that fire "rifle ammo" and rifles that fire "handgun ammo" but ammo is what it is fired in

walmart used to ask me if 22lr was for rifle or handgun

could they just not ask the same thing for 9mm,45acp,38spl,357,44magnum

could the ruger pc9/40 and lever action marlins save california

BroncoBob
10-12-2009, 10:47 AM
Sorry for new thread of many, but

Maybe some can help interpret this now law. It seems to me
looking at the amended version link posted last night

here http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090904_amended_sen_v96.html

It looks to me they moved up the date from July 2010 to Feb 2011

Also looks like they struck out the 50 round limit.

So all in all, If ammo production ever catches up to pre Obama levels
we wont have to seek ammo on the Internet

Keeping all ammo (Shotgun, and .22) will be cumbersome to keep behind
counter
at some of the gun dealers I shop.

The thumb print thing i can live with. I recently spoke to a reputable dealer
and said nobody absolutely cannot currently keep track of all the DROS paperwork
at this time,

So it will be 50 times worse for ammo sales, the guy told me they would
have to rent more shop space just to store the paperwork, so some goes in the
the dumpster.

Lastly, The bill keeps stipulating "Handgun ammunition" Does this also restrict
rifle ammo sales? I just dont see this any where reading this. 22 lr, Can be considered
handgun but 22 lr is 22 Long Rifle.

Wayne

They pushed back the date I'm sure due to the fact they expect court hearings on it.

Saym14
10-12-2009, 11:54 AM
I am building a 9mm rifle!!!!!

ke6guj
10-12-2009, 12:07 PM
this is the enrolled version of the bill that you need to be looking at, http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090921_enrolled.html

MP301
10-12-2009, 9:16 PM
If I read this right ( I just did a quick browse), a C&R holder with a COE is exempt? hmmmmm

Librarian
10-12-2009, 9:56 PM
yea what is "handgun ammo"


The bill uses the definition from PC 12323: As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall apply:

(a)"Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles.

Feel better informed? Want to guess about .22LR?

hoffmang
10-12-2009, 10:06 PM
Some important thoughts.

A handgun ammunition vendor is basically "any person, firm, corporation, dealer, or any other business enterprise that is engaged in the retail sale of any handgun ammunition, or that holds itself out as engaged in the business of selling any handgun
ammunition."

All you have to do is keep the records and have a location you don't mind allowing a LEO to review the records on request. Want to become a "handgun ammunition vendor" for your friends? Note that being a "handgun ammunition vendor" means you're exempt from the ban on internet ammo ordering - an exemption you can also get by being a C&R w/ a COE...

-Gene

GrizzlyGuy
10-13-2009, 6:26 AM
Some important thoughts.

A handgun ammunition vendor is basically "any person, firm, corporation, dealer, or any other business enterprise that is engaged in the retail sale of any handgun ammunition, or that holds itself out as engaged in the business of selling any handgun
ammunition."

All you have to do is keep the records and have a location you don't mind allowing a LEO to review the records on request. Want to become a "handgun ammunition vendor" for your friends? Note that being a "handgun ammunition vendor" means you're exempt from the ban on internet ammo ordering - an exemption you can also get by being a C&R w/ a COE...

Yes, and this could be a real opportunity for pro-gun mom & pop type stores. Many of the big retailers will likely be dropping ammo sales due to the new hassles involved. The mom & pops already have retail locations and business licenses so they would just be adding another lucrative product to their line, kind of like how these types of stores added lottery ticket sales when the CA lottery was put in place. In a tough economy that could help them substantially.

The flip side of the coin is the last phrase in that definition: "or that holds itself out as engaged in the business of selling any handgun ammunition". That could potentially affect private party sales. For example, a person hauls a truckload of ammo in from NV, then places an ad here or on Craigslist offering to sell some or all of it. Via that definition, the state could consider them a "handgun ammunition vendor" and bust them if they are not keeping those records.

copenhagen269
10-13-2009, 7:25 AM
I have a question,

My family owns a hardware store which also sells ammo, will we still be able to sell ammo?

reidnez
10-13-2009, 7:40 AM
I have a question,

My family owns a hardware store which also sells ammo, will we still be able to sell ammo?

Yes, but once it goes into effect you will have to comply with all the provisions of the law.