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View Full Version : AR/AK Memo: Detachable Magazines


SteveW
10-11-2009, 1:45 PM
In the "AR/AK Memo" available from the home page of Calguns.net, the following is stated:

"To be legally safe in California, an off-list AR15-type lower receiver should never have a pistol grip or telestock, etc. attached unless and until a nondetachable (fixed) 10-rd magazine is already affixed. When repairing or dismantling such a rifle, features such as pistol grips, telestocks, etc. must first be removed before removing the fixed 10-rd magazine."

According to an article by Oaklander in the current issue (October 2009) of CRPA publication The Firing Line, if a "bullet button" magazine release is installed in an off-list AR-type lower assembly, it is legal in California. This is repeated in multiple places in the forums. However, according to the passage of the memo quoted above, for all practical purposes you cannot remove the magazine and stay legal. What is the real story?

freonr22
10-11-2009, 1:48 PM
Welcome Aboard!

A Bullet Button makes the magazine effectively Non- detachable because you need a tool ie a bullet

lorax3
10-11-2009, 1:53 PM
What is the real story?

To make a long story short, the memo is now outdated and was based on early info in the OLL movement at the time it was written.

Although I have not had a chance to read Oaklander's article myself, based on his involvement here I would probably vouch that the info he provided in the article is currently the most correct.

Link to the article online? When I get a chance I would like to take a look at it.

bohoki
10-11-2009, 2:01 PM
removeable is not equal to detachable

"detachable" is a legally defined term (meaning removable without the use of a tool)

alot like large capacity magazine is a legally defined ammunition quantity contained

hoffmang
10-11-2009, 2:43 PM
Bill W was working on an update to that memo and I don't know where the final version is. Oaklander is correct.

-Gene

ke6guj
10-11-2009, 2:47 PM
To make a long story short, the memo is now outdated and was based on early info in the OLL movement at the time it was written. correct, the memo is out of date, and needs to be updated.


Link to the article online? When I get a chance I would like to take a look at it.The CRPA Firing Line articles are only available in the print copy of the monthy CRPA newsletters. Maybe one of these days they'll join the 21st Century.

SteveW
10-12-2009, 7:06 PM
I appreciate the answers everyone provided, but to make sure that I completely understand the rules, my bottom-line question is: If I go to a range, and use my "tool" to remove an empty 10-round magazine from my AR with a bullet-button, and pop-in a full magazine, am I completely legal?

Also, since the Firing Line article does not appear to be available online, a scanned copy is attached.

Vinz
10-12-2009, 8:51 PM
I appreciate the answers everyone provided, but to make sure that I completely understand the rules, my bottom-line question is: If I go to a range, and use my "tool" to remove an empty 10-round magazine from my AR with a bullet-button, and pop-in a full magazine, am I completely legal?

Also, since the Firing Line article does not appear to be available online, a scanned copy is attached.

Yes, once a magazine is removed it is an empty well. When you insert a magazine it then cannot be removed without the use of a tool. An empty well with mag lock device does not make it a detachable magazine.


It is still good practice to travel with a empty 10 round mag in the well and open bolt just in case you run into an uninformed LEO.


vinz

lorax3
10-12-2009, 9:23 PM
Thanks for scanning in the article Steve!

SteveW
10-12-2009, 10:38 PM
Thank you, everyone!