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OG Z
10-10-2009, 8:53 PM
ok first post here we go.

i compare ARs to honda civics. no matter what you put on or drop in it is still a honda civic. no matter how many rails grips and lasers an AR has, it is still just an AR. just like a honda is good if you havent driven a 240z, an AR is good if you havent shot an FNC. however just like the honda, ARs are priced to sell so why not.

I like my rifles like my cars, light and pointy. so i think when i start building i will go with a .625 barrel. no rails, i am looking for the super super old school CAR triangle hand guards. they look like a1 hand guards but cut to carbine length. if anyone knows where to get them i would appreciate the help, but i have a feeling i wont ever find them. so i think a magpul moe guard would be fine. i have questions for experienced builders.

i have never done this before, i have auto and motorcycle tools, what else will i need?

i am looking into gas piston systems, but i am afraid they will add too much weight to the front end and i really am not interested in the performance advantages if it makes the rifle feel anything but just right in my hands. also, i am not sure if any gas systems are compatible with .625 barrels. any ideas?

headspacing. how do i adjust it on ARs?

i have shot an A2 for years and i hate it. the pistol grip uncomfortable angle. i either need something closer to 90 (feels like an uzi) or something even steeper than the stock grip to give it an FAL feel. anyone felt a FAL??? yeah comfy right? any ideas for a pistol grip? i have seen a cool grip on LR300s but i havent felt one. anybody?

pneumatic or hydraulic buffers. worth it?

TRIGGER. this is the most important part. what is the best drop in pack i can get? i am looking for a very light pull with no or as close to no creep as i can get. if a trigger is adjustable to those preferences that would be cool too, but if i cant find EXACTLY the trigger i need i am going to have to make it myself. so as back up, i might need some help with that if there are any smiths out there.

ShelbyGT500
10-10-2009, 9:02 PM
lol at 240z being better...

reidnez
10-10-2009, 9:03 PM
Welcome to CalGuns!

Kind of an odd introduction, why would you build an AR if you don't like them? But hey, it's your wallet! :)

Magpul MOE guards are really nice, but you are going to be kinda limited with your build in going with a "pencil barrel." I'm not sure how, or if, they would fit.

Don't bother with the gas piston system, in my opinion. The rifle was designed for direct impingement, it works fine with a modicum of maintenance.

You don't adjust headspace unless it's out of spec, and any adjustment would have to be done by a smith. If you are using quality parts, that would be very unusual--but it's still a very good idea to check.

Basic hand tools are all you need. Hammer, punch set, screwdrivers etc.

Here's a pretty good selection of grips. I can't tell you offhand which might fit your criteria, though.

http://riflegear.com/c-37-pistol-grips.aspx

I have no idea what a pneumatic or hydraulic buffer is, in the context of an AR15. Sorry.

There was another thread recently about drop-in triggers, lots of opinions there. If you use the Google search on the top-right corner of the page, you should find it.

OG Z
10-10-2009, 11:24 PM
[QUOTE]lol at 240z being better.../QUOTE]

i can tell by your screen name you have no idea what a corner looks like. and you really dont realize what brakes are for. and since i really dont know what year your car is, what you have done to it, or whether you actually have a gt500, i dont really know how much money you wasted. but rest assured if you have dropped any money on a mustang you have definately wasted your money. if you had spent the 45000+ on a Z, you would be going 200+ wherever you want. or you would have a brand new 370 with enough cash left to build it into a beast. or you could pull a Paul Newman and race out a 280 turbo. all sorts of different options. sadly you will never know how truly glorious too feel linkages instead of circuits, you will never feel the road like i will, and you will never be able to handle. anyway cars are just a hobby, and if you were serious about racing or speed in general you would have a bike over a car, much less a ford car. ignorance is bliss i guess.

anyway, i am here to talk about guns so if you are done wasting my time i would like to continue.

[QUOTE]Magpul MOE guards are really nice, but you are going to be kinda limited with your build in going with a "pencil barrel." I'm not sure how, or if, they would fit.
/QUOTE]

the only other option to keep the barrel light is unspeakable in legal terms. it has to be light. im not shooting FA and in clanifornia i only have 10 bullets so i am really not worried about the barrel drifting due to heat, so there is really no need for a heavy barrel. i am making a 16 inch carbine, not a 20 inch useless rabbit shooting device. plus, if i can get those old hand guards, the small diameter barrel adds to the old school factor. and since there is no school like the old school, which shelbygt500 clearly doesnt understand, i would rather go with that option. as far as the grips go, you really need to have a feel for a variety of gattros to understand what i mean, i am not saying you dont, i am just saying it is a rarity in this piece of crap state. as you can see what i am looking for in this build is total comfort. i dont need to build a rifle into a beast if it is comfy. comfy rifles shoot better than beastly ones. plus like i said ARs are as beastly as honda civics... i have never done this before and since it is my first build i want to start on something easy. then i will move on to an StG. 58 or an L1. maybe a model 700... but i hear you need a lathe for that. i heard aks are easy too but i want to bend it from a flat so i can say i built the whole thing, i have no idea where to get a jig or flats so oh well

gdun
10-11-2009, 12:37 AM
ouch i felt bad for shelbygt just reading that

Black Majik
10-11-2009, 12:46 AM
lol at 240z being better...

i can tell by your screen name you have no idea what a corner looks like. and you really dont realize what brakes are for. and since i really dont know what year your car is, what you have done to it, or whether you actually have a gt500, i dont really know how much money you wasted. but rest assured if you have dropped any money on a mustang you have definately wasted your money. if you had spent the 45000+ on a Z, you would be going 200+ wherever you want. or you would have a brand new 370 with enough cash left to build it into a beast. or you could pull a Paul Newman and race out a 280 turbo. all sorts of different options. sadly you will never know how truly glorious too feel linkages instead of circuits, you will never feel the road like i will, and you will never be able to handle. anyway cars are just a hobby, and if you were serious about racing or speed in general you would have a bike over a car, much less a ford car. ignorance is bliss i guess.

anyway, i am here to talk about guns so if you are done wasting my time i would like to continue.


Wow! :D

StevieC
10-11-2009, 12:56 AM
LOL :D

I had a couple 240z's...... geez what p.o.s.'s they were
then the 260... whoever thought that was an improvement should be shot with an AR or run over with a Shelby
then the 280... it's your grandma's z with Ttops

anyway, we have all held a FAL, most of us probably have one
A1 was almost similar in handguard feel but it aint no 240z to be sure :p

ivanimal
10-11-2009, 12:59 AM
I had a super fast 260Z in 87-89 it was built by a guy named Jay Wong That thing was a slingsht. I will say the only time I ever scared myself in that car was whyen I beat a Grand National on 280. I got up to 140 or so and the car felt like it was going to rattle apart. Fun yet scary.

Build an old school AR there are plenty of parts out there it just take some looking. Try googling retro AR.

ShelbyGT500
10-11-2009, 4:02 AM
lol anyway I know its offtopic but...

its a little dated, but ever seen an $8,000 foxbody mustang with 180k miles on a stock 5.0L pushing out just 225BHP motor beat ferraris, BMWs and porches in a slalom?

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/content/articles/pdf/Slalom.pdf

trust me kid, I know what it takes to carve corners and then accelerate out of them. I dont need $45,000 to be able to go fast, hell even half of that would be more then enough.

Back ON-topic

Have you looked into the Monsterman Grip? idk if thats the 'angle' you're looking for

m98
10-11-2009, 5:39 AM
So ur saying that AR's are crap.....comparing it to civics isn't a really good comparison. example: civics can't carry 5-10passengers+a full load of stuff and do 100mph on a rough&bumpy road. AR's can be Battle rifles, Hunting rifles, self defense, anything that requires a rifle. AR's are a MULT-caliber platform. civics can't be used to haul a 10k lb fishing boat today and then tommorrow head up the hill to go do some offroading. IMO, civics(cardboard box) are only good for 2 things: 1. Gas saving 2. To go to the grocery store/mall. Riced out cardboard boxes are still Riced out cardboard boxes or another other terms "Road sweeper"

sevensix2x51
10-11-2009, 5:56 AM
ok first post here we go.

i compare ARs to honda civics. no matter what you put on or drop in it is still a honda civic. no matter how many rails grips and lasers an AR has, it is still just an AR. just like a honda is good if you havent driven a 240z, an AR is good if you havent shot an FNC. however just like the honda, ARs are priced to sell so why not.

I like my rifles like my cars, light and pointy. so i think when i start building i will go with a .625 barrel. no rails, i am looking for the super super old school CAR triangle hand guards. they look like a1 hand guards but cut to carbine length. if anyone knows where to get them i would appreciate the help, but i have a feeling i wont ever find them. so i think a magpul moe guard would be fine. i have questions for experienced builders.

i have never done this before, i have auto and motorcycle tools, what else will i need?

i am looking into gas piston systems, but i am afraid they will add too much weight to the front end and i really am not interested in the performance advantages if it makes the rifle feel anything but just right in my hands. also, i am not sure if any gas systems are compatible with .625 barrels. any ideas?

headspacing. how do i adjust it on ARs?

i have shot an A2 for years and i hate it. the pistol grip uncomfortable angle. i either need something closer to 90 (feels like an uzi) or something even steeper than the stock grip to give it an FAL feel. anyone felt a FAL??? yeah comfy right? any ideas for a pistol grip? i have seen a cool grip on LR300s but i havent felt one. anybody?

pneumatic or hydraulic buffers. worth it?

TRIGGER. this is the most important part. what is the best drop in pack i can get? i am looking for a very light pull with no or as close to no creep as i can get. if a trigger is adjustable to those preferences that would be cool too, but if i cant find EXACTLY the trigger i need i am going to have to make it myself. so as back up, i might need some help with that if there are any smiths out there.

bad analogy. so you think ar15's are mediocre piles of slag, yet you want to build one.
i think if you would like assistance from competent builders here, it's best not to use your introductory post to bash those builders' passion, and as is often the case, their livelihood.
please let us know when you take your homemade trigger to the range, ill be sure to go diving that day instead...

m98
10-11-2009, 6:06 AM
bad analogy. so you think ar15's are mediocre piles of slag, yet you want to build one.
i think if you would like assistance from competent builders here, it's best not to use your introductory post to bash those builders' passion, and as is often the case, their livelihood.
please let us know when you take your homemade trigger to the range, ill be sure to go diving that day instead...

My point exactly. I don't know of anyone who would want to waste time building a homemade trigger? It really sounds to me like this guy really doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to EBR's. Instead he comes on acting as if he's been around AR's a long time and knows the rifle inside out and all of it rifle upgrades/mods inside out.

BlackDrop50
10-11-2009, 10:08 AM
Hey, what's all the hub bub about....?

Oh whoops, sorry this thread reminds me of another one.

OG Z
10-11-2009, 11:56 AM
So ur saying that AR's are crap.....comparing it to civics isn't a really good comparison. example: civics can't carry 5-10passengers+a full load of stuff and do 100mph on a rough&bumpy road. AR's can be Battle rifles, Hunting rifles, self defense, anything that requires a rifle. AR's are a MULT-caliber platform. civics can't be used to haul a 10k lb fishing boat today and then tommorrow head up the hill to go do some offroading. IMO, civics(cardboard box) are only good for 2 things: 1. Gas saving 2. To go to the grocery store/mall. Riced out cardboard boxes are still Riced out cardboard boxes or another other terms "Road sweeper"

you are absolutely right. except you need to remember that the people who initially tried to use an AR as a BR was the chair force. logically, the only reason i would want an AR is to have a light rifle i can grab and use instantly. and remember i only need an AR for as long as it takes me to get from where ever i am till i get to my closet.
the .223 was designed to merk off rats and crap. bottom line i dont trust it at battle rifle ranges. most people believe the .223 is designed to tumble, which is erroneous, it happens to tumble. the 5.45 is designed to tumble, thus the air pocket in the bullet. remember that AKs are everything that ARs are, just slightly more dedicated if you know what i mean.

AS FAR AS HEADSPACING IS CONCERNED. i doubt the parts i throw together will have good headspace. i dont understand how everyone is so calm about this issue. i have made some big mistakes with guns in the past and i am very lucky to be alive according to most folks, so i really dont want to take any more chances. are good parts the only way to be sure before i assemble everything? what i am afraid of is putting everything together and having it fail the go no go tests, and then having no idea what to do about it

and as far as people who hate on Zs... the Z is the only car from the 70's i have ever seen smash a ferrari 430. (not the greatest ferrari but whatever), i was in to bikes way before i got into cars, and trust me the datsun Z is the only car i respect for a reason. in the 70's this car was the business. and for something that costed a little over 3500 was damn damn fast. i have noticed on my bike and in my car, that the Z is the on car streetbikes are hesitant to line up to. everywhere a Z goes it is the first car to get looked and revved at. the datsun Z put japan on the map as far as cars go, and i doubt there has been equivalent bang for your buck ever since. the Z is the only car that can be extremely successful in almost ever type of racing. everyone that is in to road racing remembers John Morton. you know how the Z will do on the tarmac. everyone knows the dude in town with the Z with the chevy swap, and knows that thing will charge on the drag strip. Zs have even become successful rally cars. rally racing is the hardest racing on 4 wheels, and the Z can do it no sweat. when was the last time you saw a mustang rally? Oh i remember, it was at the Monza Rally last year, driven by Graziano Rossi, famous GP road rider. Of course the rustang got its *** beat. big heavy cars are useless to me. no matter how many HP you have, you will never feel the road and the forces that affect your car like someone in even a basic miata. and no matter how many mphs you do, the skill it takes to handle a 240Z around a race track at qualifying pace is something most arent ready for.

OG Z
10-11-2009, 12:11 PM
bad analogy. so you think ar15's are mediocre piles of slag, yet you want to build one.
i think if you would like assistance from competent builders here, it's best not to use your introductory post to bash those builders' passion, and as is often the case, their livelihood.
please let us know when you take your homemade trigger to the range, ill be sure to go diving that day instead...

im not bashing anyones passion. i am telling you what i think. this is my opinion and if you dont like the way i speak it you can fill your tanks with my fart gas and go dive for as long as you want.

ARs ARE mediocre piles of slag if you ask me, and if i lived in a free country i would be at the store buying an AKS-74u and a Cetme unfortunately i live in the USA. really if you take someones opinion personally the way you do, you are not mature enough to be shooting guns, much yet buying or building them. or diving for that matter.

But like motorcycles, what type or style of gun you have doesnt really matter. the only thing that matters in reality is the interface between the user and the rifle, which as you can see by reading i am very interested in. ARs in my opinion arent worth buying, but since building is cheaper, and ill be able to flip any gun i build to a sucker for twice what i spent (easy), i am really not even worried about it.

for real, any AR model you can come up with, i can come up with a better alternative. from 24" tack drivers to 7" patriots. no matter what role you put the AR in there is always something better performance wise.

skkeeter
10-11-2009, 12:23 PM
Maybe the OP should go join a car forum instead of mucking up Calguns with his testy attitude.


"QUOTE"
you are absolutely right. except you need to remember that the people who initially tried to use an AR as a BR was the chair force. logically, the only reason i would want an AR is to have a light rifle i can grab and use instantly. and remember i only need an AR for as long as it takes me to get from where ever i am till i get to my closet.

Since they are so mediocre, why don't you take your existing gun out of your closet and put it next to your bed:rolleyes:

Cal-Irish
10-11-2009, 12:34 PM
Wow, what an entrance to the forum you have made. Quite a splash.

OG Z
10-11-2009, 12:39 PM
bad analogy. so you think ar15's are mediocre piles of slag, yet you want to build one.
i think if you would like assistance from competent builders here, it's best not to use your introductory post to bash those builders' passion, and as is often the case, their livelihood.
please let us know when you take your homemade trigger to the range, ill be sure to go diving that day instead...

im not bashing anyones passion. i am telling you what i think. this is my opinion and if you dont like the way i speak it you can fill your tanks with my fart gas and go dive for as long as you want.

ARs ARE mediocre piles of slag if you ask me, and if i lived in a free country i would be at the store buying an AKS-74u and a Cetme unfortunately i live in the USA. really if you take someones opinion personally the way you do, you are not mature enough to be shooting guns, much yet buying or building them. or diving for that matter.

But like motorcycles, what type or style of gun you have doesnt really matter. the only thing that matters in reality is the interface between the user and the rifle, which as you can see by reading i am very interested in. ARs in my opinion arent worth buying, but since building is cheaper, and ill be able to flip any gun i build to a sucker for twice what i spent (easy), i am really not even worried about it.

for real, any AR model you can come up with, i can come up with a better alternative. from 24" tack drivers to 7" patriots. no matter what role you put the AR in there is always something better performance wise.

edit*
and if what you made uniquely for yourself doesnt work out, you slang it to a chump for 1500

Cal-Irish
10-11-2009, 12:41 PM
let me pose you this question: with only 10 miniscule bullets and no way to reload under 15 minutes, how are CA legal ARs any thing BUT useless? you arent going to be shooting at anything over 300yds, and even if you did, i doubt you would kill a deer. correct me if i am wrong but i remember reading somewhere that using .223s for hunting is illegal in some places. i dont know anything about hunting so that might be BS. an AR built for your house would HAVE to be an SBR, so that isnt an option. anyone with a pistol AR will get outshot by anyone with a 1911 (which is almost everyone) so that is useless. the only real reason to have an AR is to take pride in crafting something uniquely for yourself.

You gotta be trolling hard brah. Im out of this thread. Someone kill it with fire.

OG Z
10-11-2009, 12:43 PM
You gotta be trolling hard brah. Im out of this thread. Someone kill it with fire.

what does that mean? im assuming it means i am right, because i am.

reidnez
10-11-2009, 12:51 PM
Maybe the OP should go join a car forum instead of mucking up Calguns with his testy attitude.

:iagree:

Let's not feed the trolls. AR's are junk, which is why he is so interested in building one, and the Z-car is the greatest implement of racing ever devised. Such is the Gospel According to OG Z.

Just nod and smile, guys. Nod and smile...

I'm outta this thread, too. It's thankful that people like this are a small minority on CG.

technique
10-11-2009, 12:52 PM
what does that mean? im assuming it means i am right, because i am.

It means you're the new hub bub....way to put your best foot forward...

Welcome to the forum...I'm sure the old hub bub is glad you are here.:)

OG Z
10-11-2009, 12:55 PM
whatever. i really need some questions answered, and if you d bags are really going to get heated over parallels i draw and opinions i form you can all stare down your barrels. i need advice from actual trigger pullers and not advice from dicks that had the money to throw down on a stag to keep locked up and taken out once a year. i wouldnt have guns if i didnt feel like i need them, and if you dont have the same seriousness about your arms, i really have no time for your thoughts.

technique
10-11-2009, 1:04 PM
No ones heated but you....you won't get any questions answered with your attitude.

A stag is a low end AR and is also on the less expensive side. Its obvious you have no clue. Why would anyone here answer you when you obviously haven't read up before you asked...and its obvious you haven't even read the rules....

OG Z
10-11-2009, 1:04 PM
:iagree:

Let's not feed the trolls. AR's are junk, which is why he is so interested in building one, and the Z-car is the greatest implement of racing ever devised. Such is the Gospel According to OG Z.

Just nod and smile, guys. Nod and smile...

I'm outta this thread, too. It's thankful that people like this are a small minority on CG.

you are really going to make me seem like a ***** for having an opinion? really? i cant say what i want to say?!? let me guess you cried when ronald reagans old dirty *** finally kicked the bucket. you voted yes on 8, and you hate when people are different because it scares you. this is why i dont like the shooting community. usually it is a bunch of *****s who cant let anything go any other way than their own. i used to work at San Diego Shotgun Sports, trust me i know the shooting community in and out, you guys are all the same.

OG Z
10-11-2009, 1:06 PM
No ones heated but you....you won't get any questions answered with your attitude.

A stag is a low end AR and is also on the less expensive side. Its obvious you have no clue. Why would anyone here answer you when you obviously haven't read up before you asked...and its obvious you haven't even read the rules....

that is the point, understand the literary device sarcasm. i dont have time for chumps with stags that shoot once a year.