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Phil3
10-10-2009, 12:54 PM
This may be a Chevy vs. Ford argument, but what are people's opinions of how Remington and Savage actions compare? I am looking to buy either a factory rifle, or construct a custom, based on one of the two actions. I might even use to compete in F-Class, F/TR, or some local matches.

- Phil

Beelzy
10-10-2009, 2:05 PM
For those two makers there is no comparison.....Remington is a whole class ahead of Savage. In my expert opinion. :p

Argonaut
10-10-2009, 2:07 PM
Remington has a far superior lock time to the Savage......is generally better built and has great barrels.

Phil3
10-10-2009, 2:19 PM
Remington has a far superior lock time to the Savage......is generally better built and has great barrels.

This is for actions only. I would be using Krieger barrels, or some other aftermarket barrel.

Also, I have found debate on the lock time for these actions. Some say Remington is faster, others say Savage. And that can change if the action is timed and trued.

- Phil

Fjold
10-10-2009, 3:39 PM
Remington has a far superior lock time to the Savage......is generally better built and has great barrels.

Try again.

The stock Remington short action has a locktime of 2.5 milliseconds (ms), even a Remington with a Speed-Lock kit (usually around 1.8ms) has a slower lock time than a stock Savage (1.6ms). The only Remington that compares to a stock Savage is the old Remington 788 which had sub 2 ms lock times.

StevieC
10-10-2009, 3:47 PM
are we talking four ten thousandths of a second difference?
maybe there should be a different criteria for comparing the two?

ar15barrels
10-10-2009, 4:02 PM
Remingtons have a better bolt lift and many more options in aftermarket stocks, triggers and accessories.
Remingtons have better extraction.

When you choose to build a custom rifle on a savage action, you pigeon-hole yourself into working with just a few manufacturers that support custom savages.

Bug Splat
10-10-2009, 4:18 PM
Buy a savage if you want to do your own work. Rem make nice rifles but action to action there is not much difference other than Savages are easier to work with and parts cost less. Want to know why there are no Savage gun smiths? Because there is no need for one. Any Joe Smoe can build up a rifle that will run with the most expensive Rems out there. I've spent years competing with my Savages and pissing off Remington owners who dumped way too much money into a rifle only to lose to mine which was 1/3 the price.

Phil3
10-10-2009, 4:20 PM
Remingtons have a better bolt lift and many more options in aftermarket stocks, triggers and accessories.
Remingtons have better extraction.

When you choose to build a custom rifle on a savage action, you pigeon-hole yourself into working with just a few manufacturers that support custom savages.

Randall, I understand what you are saying, but if one trues and times the Savage ($125 Sharp Shooter Supply), that is supposed to cut bolt lift effort by 40 - 60%. The Remington could operate more smoothly as well, I would expect, but truing and timing on these, from what I can gather, is much more expensive.

What it is about extraction that makes Remingtons better?

- Phil

Beelzy
10-10-2009, 4:23 PM
What it is about extraction that makes Remingtons better?

- Phil

They will pop the rounds nicely into your palm when ejecting with the left
hand. A nice little benefit for the reloader who doesn't want his cases hitting
the deck. ;)

phish
10-10-2009, 4:29 PM
a lot of f-class and palma shooters don't even use the ejector, so extraction is the main thing

things get interesting depending on how deep you want to get into the game. Once you get a factory action and have it worked over, a custom action isn't that much more money, like a Lawton. Some of the higher end boutique Remington pattern actions are into Barnard and Nesika territory.

f/tr is a good "try before you buy", just get the cheapeast factory action you can find by cruising the various forums, there's a nice 7 saum for 2.5k on the usrifleteams longrange forum atm

Fjold
10-10-2009, 4:52 PM
I like the larger hook of the Savage extractor over the smaller clip of the Remington myself. Remington is a smoother action out of the box but like the above poster said the cocking ramp can be recut on the Savage to ease that part of it. Cycling either action smooths them up quickly.

If you are going to build a precision rifle start with either gun and when you get to the point where you can outshoot the capability of either gun then you can tear it down and buy a better trigger, bolt handle, barrel, bottom metal and stock. The difference then is that with the Savage you will not have to pay a gunsmith the $300-$500 to chamber, thread and crown the new barrel, install the trigger, install a tactical bolt handle and blueprint the receiver (and wait the 6 months for him to do it.)

I'm not sold on Remington barrels being any better than the Stock Savage barrels as I see too many articles and examples of stock out of the box Savages out shooting their competition.

The big advantages of the Savage for out of the box accuracy is the trigger and the floating bolt head. I also like being able to change barrels, bolt handles and bolt heads at home, in fact you can do 90% of the work on the Savages without hiring a gunsmith.

swerv512
10-10-2009, 6:54 PM
i'd love to chime in on the subject but i've never owned a savage- but i do have remington 700 rifles and in my experience support and aftermarket goodies are much easier to come by.

slappomatt
10-10-2009, 10:54 PM
I have done almost everything you can do to a 700 and if I could do it over again I would have bought a savage. they shoot better out of the box and are alot easier to do work on yourself. then again if your serious about doing it custom action is the only way to go. surgeon personally.

xibunkrlilkidsx
10-11-2009, 10:40 AM
i prefer the feel of my Remington action over the savage 10fp that i shot.

rksimple
10-11-2009, 11:22 AM
If you're thinking custom, don't even think rem or savage. Think custom actions. After all the work is done to the factory action, you're well into the price range of a stiller for example. And you still have a stock action.

And as a 5 time savage owner-dont get a savage.

Phil3
10-11-2009, 12:03 PM
And as a 5 time savage owner-dont get a savage.

Confining the discussion to Remington vs Savage, why not get a Savage, from your point of view?

- Phil

rksimple
10-13-2009, 6:34 AM
Confining the discussion to Remington vs Savage, why not get a Savage, from your point of view?

- Phil

I've posted this in a couple other threads:

As a 5x Savage owner, get the remington...unless it will only be used for bench and varmint hunting in close-to-stock form. The minute you want to start customizing, upgrading, etc., you'll find that there is NOT the huge aftermarket support like that of the 700. The savage can be made into a pretty nice rifle. Easy to switch barrels and do work yourself, but it isn't without problems.

Extraction is weak and I had many FTF's/FTE's in competition, costing me time and points. I think I went through 3 extractors with my 10fp. They all sucked. Had to modify the ejector on all of them to allow for more protrusion. The 223's were the worst offenders in this category.

My 10fp also had a crazy habit of shooting 1.5 MOA right once I had about 10 rounds through the barrel in moderate succession. The heat really shifted things around (and it was a full floated barrel).

The timing and bolt lift absolutely suck. Being able to lift the bolt with a finger, never having to move my head nor having the rifle move off target is a clear advantage to my remmy. I took my 12fv out the other day and it shot very well, taking into account all the items previously mentioned. If you like to tinker and have lots of patience, and don't mind mediocrity (in the "other" dept.), get the savage. Its a straight shooter but fit, finish, attn to details, etc is lacking.

Add to that the relative unavailability of a reliable DBM (except the vbull that only works with the older staggered feed mag, IIRC) and you have a rifle that is a turd...but can shoot.

eaglemike
10-13-2009, 6:43 AM
I've posted this in a couple other threads:

As a 5x Savage owner, get the remington...unless it will only be used for bench and varmint hunting in close-to-stock form. The minute you want to start customizing, upgrading, etc., you'll find that there is NOT the huge aftermarket support like that of the 700. The savage can be made into a pretty nice rifle. Easy to switch barrels and do work yourself, but it isn't without problems.

Extraction is weak and I had many FTF's/FTE's in competition, costing me time and points. I think I went through 3 extractors with my 10fp. They all sucked. Had to modify the ejector on all of them to allow for more protrusion. The 223's were the worst offenders in this category.

My 10fp also had a crazy habit of shooting 1.5 MOA right once I had about 10 rounds through the barrel in moderate succession. The heat really shifted things around (and it was a full floated barrel).

The timing and bolt lift absolutely suck. Being able to lift the bolt with a finger, never having to move my head nor having the rifle move off target is a clear advantage to my remmy. I took my 12fv out the other day and it shot very well, taking into account all the items previously mentioned. If you like to tinker and have lots of patience, and don't mind mediocrity (in the "other" dept.), get the savage. Its a straight shooter but fit, finish, attn to details, etc is lacking.

Add to that the relative unavailability of a reliable DBM (except the vbull that only works with the older staggered feed mag, IIRC) and you have a rifle that is a turd...but can shoot.
Are you saying the current Savage DBM's available from the factory are not reliable?

rksimple
10-13-2009, 7:01 AM
Are you saying the current Savage DBM's available from the factory are not reliable?

Yes. Very much so. My pops has a 10fcp with with hs stock and the mag absolutely sucks.

Army
10-13-2009, 12:35 PM
As has been said, Savages can be "smithed" by you on the range....Remingtons require a trained 'smith and all his tools and equipment.

If you don't want to do all the "work", send it to Fred at Sharp Shooters Supply, tell him exactly what you want done from triggers to timing to stocks to scope rings....muzzle to butt custom.

I sold and gave away ALL my Remingtons after the Savage bug bit me hard. Out of the box, my LRPV easily outshot my buddy's many-custom-dollars Remmy, and this was before I put on a new stock, trigger, bolt handle, and sight base from SSS.

Not one of my Savages will do more than 3/4", as long as I do my job. They usually will shoot less...as long as I do my job :)

Remmy's are liked more for their ease of smithing, than actually being a better gun. The round receiver is really easy to lock into a lathe chuck to true the action. Savages don't have that problem, as the barrel nut does the same thing while adding dynamic tension, and the floating bolt head automatically sets true to the chamber face.

Go Savage, and never wonder why you thought of Remington :D

ar15barrels
06-15-2010, 1:17 PM
Confining the discussion to Remington vs Savage, why not get a Savage, from your point of view?

cZ0gFbW7ASI

Fjold
06-15-2010, 3:37 PM
Of course Remington's have other problems :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Fjold/rembolts.jpg

rksimple
06-15-2010, 3:51 PM
Of course Remington's have other problems :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Fjold/rembolts.jpg

Beating on the bolt handles with 2x4's to open it after an overpressure round doesn't count. ;)

Weird thing is, I've seen that happen to more custom actions (with brazed handles) than Remingtons. Hence my decision to rely on Surgeons.

Rob454
06-15-2010, 4:05 PM
cZ0gFbW7ASI

Mine did that when i used this crappy ammo i got. When I shoot regular over the counter ammo i have no problem. the only time I had that problem was with that ammo. ive never had that problem before or after that bad batch. Looked to me like the ammo case would swell up and the bolt would get tight.
Not saying savage is the end all be all. IMO I think its a great rifle and has its advantages. I guess when you get into the 12-2000$+ range of guns the basic rifles are left in the dust.:D