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View Full Version : IF ab962 passes, what do you do?


bsim
10-09-2009, 11:17 PM
So if AB 962 passes, what do you do?

Give up?

Fight harder?

Just curious...

(sorry, can't find the edir button for changing the poll title.)

whatmeworry
10-09-2009, 11:19 PM
NEVER give up....:chris:

kf6tac
10-09-2009, 11:43 PM
Fight harder, of course. Load up on ammo before the 2011 effective date, and then make periodic out-of-state ventures afterward until we get that POS tossed out through the courts.

VHK
10-09-2009, 11:47 PM
Fight harder, of course. Load up on ammo before the 2011 effective date, and then make periodic out-of-state ventures afterward until we get that POS tossed out through the courts.

+100

gcvt
10-09-2009, 11:48 PM
Donate more to organizations that support 2A.

razorx
10-09-2009, 11:48 PM
C&R, business as usual while figuring out the best way to challenge this in court. Not simple.

leitung
10-09-2009, 11:48 PM
Move.. **** these devils and their laws..

advocatusdiaboli
10-09-2009, 11:50 PM
Make semi-yearly trips to Nevada to stock up on ammo! Complete with a ritual meaningful to my religious sensibilities ;-) Duh!

kf6tac
10-09-2009, 11:52 PM
C&R, business as usual while figuring out the best way to challenge this in court. Not simple.

Good point on that. Although that assumes that out-of-state retailers will look carefully enough to realize that they can still ship to C&R + CoE holders. I guess I'll see how rough it is without one first; I'd rather avoid paying the state the rip-off CoE fee if I can.

Scratch705
10-10-2009, 12:34 AM
Make semi-yearly trips to Nevada to stock up on ammo! Complete with a ritual meaningful to my religious sensibilities ;-) Duh!

ditto. all it will do is just make me buy ammo once a year from vegas and saving my money for that yearly trip.

Synergy
10-10-2009, 12:37 AM
Majority will do what the entrepreneurial criminal will do, drive out of state and buy cases upon cases. Except we keep and shoot our ammo, the criminal will open a new black market and criminal enterprise!

Ducman
10-10-2009, 12:42 AM
make sure that de leon does not hold any public office position :mad:

technique
10-10-2009, 12:58 AM
fight harder, for you guys.

dchang0
10-10-2009, 2:49 AM
ditto. all it will do is just make me buy ammo once a year from vegas and saving my money for that yearly trip.

Actually, I propose that we do something entirely different.

Earlier today, I was reading an article about how California's state government is totally screwed fiscally. The legislators are being forced to shut down all sorts of social services programs and are even being forced to roll back parole/prison programs.

And considering that AB962's big selling point to other legislators is that it will collect sales taxes on ammo sales that would have been tax-free over the Internet, we should hit them where it hurts: IN THE POCKETBOOK.

This is what I propose: We need to make the ammo registration system cost the state as much as possible until they have to shut down the program because they can't afford to keep it running.

How do we do that? By buying small amounts of ammo as frequently as possible to crank up the amount of paperwork* that needs to be filed. Yes, this will suck big time for the poor gun shops and ammo dealers, but they would be better off without the ammo registration law too, and many would likely support this idea.

So, instead of buying 1000rnds in bulk at once, we should buy 2 boxes of 50rnds individually, on 10 different days. This would cause 10 forms with fingerprints to be sent to the DOJ rather than just one form. It doesn't cost us shooters much more (if buying in Calif., we still pay the same sales tax, though buying in bulk might yield a slightly better price).

But we could easily have the legislators repeal the law because they can't afford to enforce it. And it's easy to do, especially for those of us who hang out at the gun shops on a regular basis--just buy a box or two of ammo each time you go to the shop.

Multiply this by hundreds or thousands of shooters and the DOJ won't know what hit them!

-----

* Even if the forms are electronically filed, servers and disk storage costs beaucoup bucks. In fact, it might cost more to have electronic storage systems than paper storage because of the relatively high salaries IT people command.

Scratch705
10-10-2009, 2:55 AM
you assume that the DOJ collects the would be forms. the bill only says the the retailer has to collect the info and store it for 5 years, nothing says they have to send them in to the DOJ. so that plan doesn't work.

i'm just going to stick to buying as many stuff as i can out of state to lessen the amount of state taxes i have to pay. (only legally, as in i will be out of state and purchasing, thus not needed to fill in the Use Tax in my tax forms that you fill out for internet buying)

dchang0
10-10-2009, 3:07 AM
you assume that the DOJ collects the would be forms. the bill only says the the retailer has to collect the info and store it for 5 years, nothing says they have to send them in to the DOJ. so that plan doesn't work.

i'm just going to stick to buying as many stuff as i can out of state to lessen the amount of state taxes i have to pay. (only legally, as in i will be out of state and purchasing, thus not needed to fill in the Use Tax in my tax forms that you fill out for internet buying)

Ah, touche--I just re-read the latest version of the bill, and you are correct. This means, of course, that the law is completely useless in preventing criminals from purchasing ammo since there is no "check-in" with the DOJ at the time of sale, so it is toothless at its purported purpose.

No big surprise there--the real purpose was to ban ammo and generate sales tax revenue.

I withdraw my suggested plan, then. We should all buy as much ammo out of state as possible. In fact, I would love to see entrepreneurs in Arizona/Nevada start setting up "ammo stands" right on the border, just like they set up fireworks stands in cities that allow fireworks down here in SoCal. We could all make routine runs for ammo and support those two free states with our sales taxes.

SanSacto
10-10-2009, 3:11 AM
Reload

Bigbear
10-10-2009, 3:14 AM
Shed a tear for the people's republic of California, and start looking at out of state real estate.

ttboy
10-10-2009, 4:37 AM
Make a ammo run to Arizona.

hill billy
10-10-2009, 6:44 AM
Get my ffl and charge $5 for up to 5k rounds to transfer stuff in. Or $1 or whatever ridiculously low fee I can just to give them the finger.

freakshow10mm
10-10-2009, 6:51 AM
Move forward with plans to start a Nevada location for a small ammunition factory. Five year plan becomes a one year plan.

tenpercentfirearms
10-10-2009, 7:46 AM
"Ask for my time back for looking at this thread" was sadly not a third option.

bodger
10-10-2009, 7:52 AM
Ah, touche--I just re-read the latest version of the bill, and you are correct. This means, of course, that the law is completely useless in preventing criminals from purchasing ammo since there is no "check-in" with the DOJ at the time of sale, so it is toothless at its purported purpose.

No big surprise there--the real purpose was to ban ammo and generate sales tax revenue.

I withdraw my suggested plan, then. We should all buy as much ammo out of state as possible. In fact, I would love to see entrepreneurs in Arizona/Nevada start setting up "ammo stands" right on the border, just like they set up fireworks stands in cities that allow fireworks down here in SoCal. We could all make routine runs for ammo and support those two free states with our sales taxes.


I intend to buy out of state. Like, Arkansas. My guess is the AZ and NV gun shops near the border with CA are going to raise prices.

Fight harder. Not to gain ground, not to stay even, but to slow down the rate at which we are losing ground. This is the beginning of the full ammo grab, guns are next.

sorensen440
10-10-2009, 8:01 AM
dont wait till a bill passes to fight harder

Deamer
10-10-2009, 8:22 AM
Dchang0, what you suggested is what I heard brought down the federal plan a long time ago because it required the paperwork to be sent in. When discussing 962 at the gun store one of the workers said the dealers came up with a plan like yours. He said they sold their ammo as individual rounds on paperwork including 22lr. He said some of the customers sat the for over an hour signing for each cartridge.

loather
10-10-2009, 8:32 AM
Dchang0, what you suggested is what I heard brought down the federal plan a long time ago because it required the paperwork to be sent in. When discussing 962 at the gun store one of the workers said the dealers came up with a plan like yours. He said they sold their ammo as individual rounds on paperwork including 22lr. He said some of the customers sat the for over an hour signing for each cartridge.

I'd have been one of the customers who would have done something like this. :)

Seriously though, consider the impact of buying all your ammo out-of-state. You'd have to think that a lot of your favorite gun shop's recurring revenue is from ammunition sales. If that is indeed the case, then actually buying all your ammunition out-of-state will directly affect your favorite gun shop's bottom line. As sad as this bill is, I don't want to see local business of *any* type go out of business, especially gun shops.

I will continue to fight, even harder than before, but I will continue to patronize the local shops because I don't want to see them go out of business.

I will also submit that if I were to be contacted by police in connection with a firearms-related crime (that of course with which I'd have nothing to do), I will pull out all the stops and volunteer my time/energy/money to bring the suit CGF needs to knock this horrific piece of legislation out of the water.

JagerTroop
10-10-2009, 8:47 AM
dont wait till a bill passes to fight harder

+10000000000

And should it pass...
I think it's time to institute "Nor Cal Nevada AmmoRun #1" and "So Cal Nevada AmmoRun #1" . Just like our shoot/get togethers, make quarterly caravans to Nv. to make large ammo purchases. We can buddy up and carpool to the free zone. Splitting the fuel cost between 3 or 4 people will make the trip worth it ;) (you all know how carpools work)

Of course we'll need to make a pit stop and "test" the ammo we buy. Gotta make sure it's good :D

Gator Monroe
10-10-2009, 8:48 AM
dont wait till a bill passes to fight harder

Vote out Democrats (in midterms especially):chris:

Gator Monroe
10-10-2009, 8:49 AM
+10000000000

And should it pass...
I think it's time to institute "Nor Cal Nevada AmmoRun #1" and "So Cal Nevada AmmoRun #1" . Just like our shoot/get togethers, make quarterly caravans to Nv. to make large ammo purchases. We can buddy up and carpool to the free zone. Splitting the fuel cost between 3 or 4 people will make the trip worth it ;) (you all know how carpools work)

Of course we'll need to make a pit stop and "test" the ammo we buy. Gotta make sure it's good :D

Big Reno Show is THE RUN .

Rob454
10-10-2009, 8:58 AM
Start voting these legislators out of office for one. get your friends and family to vote. I can telly you that I try about 50% of my family members do not vote and it drives me up a wall. Do YOU yourself vote? if you don't you're part of the problem. IMO if you don't vote you have absolutely NO right to complain about how the state is ran.
Also someone said to hit them in the pocket book. Sadly the way to do that is to buy your bulk of ammo out of state. buy as little as possible and avoid paying sales tax at all costs. Complain and send letters to governor, state assembly and any california official. I mean inundate them with emails and phone calls and letters. hell we should have a letter writing day and everyone sends in their mail or phone call day once a week or alternate.
Threaten them with losing your vote. it doesnt matter if you wont vote for them if your hair was on fire and they had the only fire extinguisher for miles, the ONLY thing a sleazebag politician understands is losing his or her position/power. I usually fire off a letter to some goverment official once a week. I callit my bug your politician day. same etter complaining on how crappy a job theire doing.


I can do a vegas trip to get ammo. i have a diesel truck and gets good gas mileage. i just drove from Reno to orange county and only used 3/4 tank of fuel.

8-Ball
10-10-2009, 9:06 AM
For all you folks planning on out of state runs for ammo. What if when you get there, they only have 1 box left or there is a 6 box limit... or none in stock...?

I've been to other states and their stock levels aren't much different than ours.

I would consider AB962 as the final straw. I won't be fingerprinted like a common criminal every time I buy a round of ammo. Time to exit the state.

loather
10-10-2009, 10:06 AM
For all you folks planning on out of state runs for ammo. What if when you get there, they only have 1 box left or there is a 6 box limit... or none in stock...?

I've been to other states and their stock levels aren't much different than ours.

Call a couple of weeks ahead, place your order, pre-pay, and have it waiting for you when you show up to the store.

That said, it's simply impractical. Now you're asking the dealer to store your ammo for you while you find time to drive to his state and pick it up. Either he'll charge you for the back room space or he'll simply not do it.

You're right -- it is pretty much the last straw.

natasha69
10-10-2009, 10:07 AM
this thread becomes relevant next week. right now, put a few calls in this morning. the mom's groups are fighting against us. we have to maintain the pressure.

sv_1
10-10-2009, 10:39 AM
Civil Disobedience.

Scratch705
10-10-2009, 10:50 AM
For all you folks planning on out of state runs for ammo. What if when you get there, they only have 1 box left or there is a 6 box limit... or none in stock...?

I've been to other states and their stock levels aren't much different than ours.

I would consider AB962 as the final straw. I won't be fingerprinted like a common criminal every time I buy a round of ammo. Time to exit the state.

my out of state ammo runs will not to be to the gun stores, but to my sister's house. i will be sending her all my internet ammo orders. and then i shall pick up.

i guess those we have family/friends do the same. cause those gun stores will eventually raise prices on you guys once they see the trend. like how hawaii does it with their shops. if you aren't a resident you pay the usual price. but if you are a resident, you get issued a card and it discounts all prices for every store. these gun stores will do the same. make you show id and if you are from cali, they will most likely charge like 10% extra cause they know you will still pay.

RideIcon
10-10-2009, 10:57 AM
move

bodger
10-10-2009, 11:00 AM
my out of state ammo runs will not to be to the gun stores, but to my sister's house. i will be sending her all my internet ammo orders. and then i shall pick up.

i guess those we have family/friends do the same. cause those gun stores will eventually raise prices on you guys once they see the trend. like how hawaii does it with their shops. if you aren't a resident you pay the usual price. but if you are a resident, you get issued a card and it discounts all prices for every store. these gun stores will do the same. make you show id and if you are from cali, they will most likely charge like 10% extra cause they know you will still pay.

Exactly what I'm doing. Ammo shipped to a relative in Scottsdale.

And you can bet there will be some sort of blow-back with the free state retail stores. Ammo is in short supply nationwide, and CA gunnies aren't exactly loved by some of the people in free states.

technique
10-10-2009, 11:35 AM
You are welcome to ship to me...I have an empty garage and a spare bedroom to store it in. I do require an ammo donation. But lets hope its not gonna come to that. Lets hope we kill this crap....

If not, mass exodus should be the next step, leave the state to the libtards and hope the state falls into the ocean in 2012.

Rem222
10-10-2009, 3:28 PM
You are welcome to ship to me...I have an empty garage and a spare bedroom to store it in. I do require an ammo donation. But lets hope its not gonna come to that. Lets hope we kill this crap....

If not, mass exodus should be the next step, leave the state to the libtards and hope the state falls into the ocean in 2012.

I was just in Spokane WA and Idaho last month. Beautiful country. I wish I could leave CA to the libtards as you say but I choose not abandon my family. I am stuck here and will fight the good fight.

Gator Monroe
10-10-2009, 3:56 PM
Civil Disobedience.

In this Forum/Board that would be informing how this bill was a "Straight party line vote " and that Democrats are the ones who brought it upon us and thus Democrats should be voted out of office in midterms and ANY other elections in future.

CnCFunFactory
10-10-2009, 4:00 PM
I already visit nevada every couple of months, now I'll just be buying ammo while I am there.

wellerjohn
10-10-2009, 4:04 PM
I already visit nevada every couple of months, now I'll just be buying ammo while I am there.

I do to, only now I am looking for a job and home! This cesspool is stinking to much.

CnCFunFactory
10-10-2009, 4:14 PM
I do to, only now I am looking for a job and home! This cesspool is stinking to much.

I have a home there but for now it's a second home. My business is here in LA so I am here for now... unfortunately:mad:

bladerunner747
10-10-2009, 4:40 PM
Dealers in other states will do business just fine, they will figure out a way to sell to Californians!!!

kf6tac
10-10-2009, 5:12 PM
Dealers in other states will do business just fine, they will figure out a way to sell to Californians!!!

Are you sure about that? A lot of them still haven't even bothered to figure out that they can sell OLLs and other already-legal-as-factory-configured guns to us yet.

lioneaglegriffin
10-10-2009, 6:21 PM
"we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Winston Churchill

never surrender

Lone_Gunman
10-10-2009, 6:30 PM
If it passes I say we do exactly what the other side does when a bill they don't like passes. We go to the courts. Is there any way we could challenge this in court? Any of "the right people" want to chime in on this?

mossy
10-10-2009, 7:01 PM
well i will fight till i finish school, then i am off to NV for freedom.

bodger
10-10-2009, 7:49 PM
Are you sure about that? A lot of them still haven't even bothered to figure out that they can sell OLLs and other already-legal-as-factory-configured guns to us yet.

Yeah. Look at the mess on GunBroker. A lot of those guys won't sell anything to CA, not even a lever action rifle or pump shottie.

well i will fight till i finish school, then i am off to NV for freedom.

Stick with the fight anyway, make sure this cancer doesn't spread to states that are free.

artherd
10-10-2009, 8:08 PM
If it passes I say we do exactly what the other side does when a bill they don't like passes. We go to the courts. Is there any way we could challenge this in court? Any of "the right people" want to chime in on this?

Yes, but at great and unnecessary expense. (also it would take a long time.)

Lone_Gunman
10-10-2009, 8:48 PM
Yes, but at great and unnecessary expense. (also it would take a long time.)

Unnecessary because it is not an outright ban or unnecessary for some other reason? I hope to God it's unnecessary because Arnold vetoes it. :cool:

bodger
10-10-2009, 8:57 PM
Yes, but at great and unnecessary expense. (also it would take a long time.)


So if this POS becomes law, we're stuck with another nail in the coffin for a long time.
Another step back.

I'm hoping one of the steps forward that Wildhawker was talking about a while back comes to pass soon.

bombadillo
10-10-2009, 9:02 PM
It will turn everybody into criminals because they know its gonna be imported. They're not stupid.

SKSer
10-11-2009, 9:37 AM
I intend to buy out of state. Like, Arkansas. My guess is the AZ and NV gun shops near the border with CA are going to raise prices.

Fight harder. Not to gain ground, not to stay even, but to slow down the rate at which we are losing ground. This is the beginning of the full ammo grab, guns are next.


No joke. The last time I was in laughlin, I went over to a gun store in Bull Head city to buy an AR mag to bring back as a rebuild kit. and they wanted $50 bucks. :eek: the guy in the gun store was like "well thats the going rate". I just started laughing.

radioburning
10-11-2009, 10:09 AM
I'll go tell my local Wally World they're gonna need a bigger ammo case...

kapache
10-11-2009, 10:20 AM
Move to Arizona or Texas! to much headache dealing with this Democrats ****s that cant reason like humans.

bootcamp
10-11-2009, 11:41 AM
So if AB 962 passes, what do you do?

Give up?

Fight harder?

Just curious...

(sorry, can't find the edir button for changing the poll title.)

Reload

Cos
10-11-2009, 11:44 AM
This is what I propose: We need to make the ammo registration system cost the state as much as possible until they have to shut down the program because they can't afford to keep it running.

+1 on the proposal! Very smart

packnrat
10-11-2009, 12:37 PM
If it passes, it just means less taxes go to ca.

.

Sam .223
10-11-2009, 5:08 PM
i have no problem driving out of state to buy in bulk if need be but mail order is alot easier.

bsim
10-11-2009, 5:52 PM
Huh - the latest #'s show 10% will give in to the futility.

I think that's the anti's plan...

thomashoward
10-11-2009, 6:28 PM
I don't know if anyone remembers, but this was a law back in the 70's or 80's that we had to FTF ammo and sign .It did not work then and was removed from law.
I sent an email to the Gov maybe they will research it.
Arnold has until midnight tonight to veto. Until we are free, I will reload more

CalNRA
10-11-2009, 10:28 PM
I don't know if anyone remembers, but this was a law back in the 70's or 80's that we had to FTF ammo and sign .It did not work then and was removed from law.
I sent an email to the Gov maybe they will research it.
Arnold has until midnight tonight to veto. Until we are free, I will reload more

the failure of 1968 GCA's ammo purchasing clause is likely a long forgotten lesson to the "legislators".

dfletcher
10-11-2009, 10:34 PM
Since I have the C & R/COE needed to (in theory) continue buying on line and I reload, I'll probably make it a point to never buy any ammo in CA again. If the Governor allows this to become law to raise tax $$$ he won't get any from me.

And whatever it is he may run for hopefully he doesn't need my vote.

vintagearms
10-11-2009, 11:30 PM
NEVER give up....:chris:

Thats right. Never give up the ship. ARRRRR !

five.five-six
10-11-2009, 11:32 PM
what? no "Sarah Palin" option... this poll sux


anyway, I will roll my own, just picked up another 3500 rounds of .45acp boolits

Trapper John
10-12-2009, 12:00 AM
I'll never give in!


John

tuolumnejim
10-12-2009, 8:09 AM
Tar and feather Democrats (in midterms especially):chris:

Fixed it for ya. :D

Hornet_RN
10-12-2009, 8:20 AM
my mom and dad will live in reno by the time the law comes into effect, and dad loves to shoot, he'll then feel bad for me living in California, and dad will hook me up with some fresh ammo supply!!!

mossy
10-12-2009, 8:45 AM
looks like it's time to move.