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dakobster81
10-09-2009, 12:59 PM
So...

In my English class I have to write an argument in which I use an alternative source to support it. Alternative meaning not a book, article, or statistic. But instead an interview, music, movies, blogs, etc. Other people are writing about immigration, abortion, and other topics. I've decided to do guns, hehe go figure.

So I wanted to use this forum and your responses as a source of support for my arguments. Here are some things you can write about:


- A personal experience in which owning a gun helped you or someone you know. Or instances where not owning one hurt you or someone you know.

- Any opinions or thoughts about passing of anti-gun legislation, like AB 962 or others. How you feel they are ineffective, or how they infringe on your rights.

- Talk about why you believe in the right to bear arms, and why you think the 2nd amendment belongs on the Bill of Rights.

- How it allows you to have fun hunting trips with your kids/grandkids, or about how it is a fun hobby for you.

Basically this is an open forum to talk about you feelings and experiences regarding gun ownership, and your arguments in favor of gun rights and the 2A. Thanks in advance for any responses to this you guys can give me.

Rivers
10-09-2009, 1:29 PM
What about quotes from (in)famous world leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. regarding how banning their citizens from owning guns enabled their own power base?

Untamed1972
10-09-2009, 1:34 PM
A good movie to support that is "Defiance" and how guns became an integral part of that group of Jews being able to survive the Nazi regime.

kf6tac
10-09-2009, 1:38 PM
Do court opinions count as "alternative sources," or are they lumped in with books and articles? Because you'll certainly get plenty to write about from the majority opinion in Heller, and heck probably some good tidbits from the Heller dissents as well.

B Strong
10-09-2009, 1:44 PM
This might be good grist for the mill:

http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2005/11/14/dial-911-and-die-what-happens-when-the-police-dont-come/

bsim
10-09-2009, 1:46 PM
The whole "they came for the jews, and I didn't care since I'm not jewish" thing. People are apathetic to gun rights if they're not gun owners. But...

If ANY of the rights established in the BOR get attacked, they all are fair game.

We don't have to get fingerprinted for each book we read. Yet.

blerg
10-09-2009, 1:54 PM
why did the founding fathers think that this right is so important that it got an own amendment? What did they experience in totalitarian regimes? How did they wanted the US to be in contrast to kingdoms, dictatorships, etc?

Use a few citations like:
The totalitarian states can do great things, but there is one thing they cannot do: they cannot give the factory-worker a rifle and tell him to take it home and keep it in his bedroom. THAT RIFLE HANGING ON THE WALL OF THE WORKING-CLASS FLAT OR LABOURER'S COTTAGE, IS THE SYMBOL OF DEMOCRACY. IT IS OUR JOB TO SEE THAT IT STAYS THERE."
George Orwell


You could also ask if the right of free speech is important ;-)

wildog8812
10-09-2009, 1:56 PM
For me it is that I have the God given right, I doesn't matter what a piece of paper says (in no way am I advocating breaking the law), to own a gun. Do I need a gun such as a M4 carbine, probably not, but if the day comes when I do I want to know I can. If by some chance, and God I hope it never happens, I need to defend my self from a criminal I want that gun on my side, because at the end of the day if it comes down to me or someone who is attacking me I will do all in my power to come home to my family. Criminals will always find ways to get guns, it makes no sense to cripple the rights of the law abiding citizens.

pnkssbtz
10-09-2009, 2:09 PM
"Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte."

~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn The Gulag Archipelago

Paladin01
10-09-2009, 2:13 PM
Good luck with your assignment.

I would suggest doing a search for Genocide on the JPFO.org website. That will make for a good start.

Keep up the good fight!

mmartin
10-09-2009, 2:23 PM
"Why are gun rights so important anyways??? "

because when all else fails, what will you use to defend your other rights?
"If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
megan

HotRails
10-09-2009, 2:33 PM
The second Amendment is really the sole means of tangible empowerment granted by the constitution. All other rights can be and have been ignored or blatently infringed upon at one time or another.

Southwest Chuck
10-09-2009, 3:09 PM
If you want a perspective on the new law on Guns in National Parks read this thread.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=228548

In post 6, follow the 2 links for my take on it vs. other people who are concerned about it. It will give you another bibliography source also :D

Flopper
10-09-2009, 3:11 PM
"Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte."

~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn The Gulag Archipelago

And for those who don't understand German:

"When the Nazis took the Communists,
I was silent;
I was not a Communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I was silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not protest;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no longer the ability to protest."

pullnshoot25
10-09-2009, 3:25 PM
a-human-right.org

A few good reasons...

1) Armed people are citizens, not subjects.
2) Cops and other gov't agents have murdered the most people in the last century.
3) A nation can only be free as long as it is able to say "NO!" to others taking over.
4) The list goes on...

Nose Nuggets
10-09-2009, 3:44 PM
i reference this piece when ever possible

http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-gun-is-civilization.html

dakobster81
10-09-2009, 4:28 PM
good stuff guys, keep it coming, I need personal opinion and experience, why do you guys want to own guns???

Scratch705
10-09-2009, 4:32 PM
my reason for starting to own guys may not be as patriotic as some of the others.... i didn't even consider of how a gun truly represents our freedoms that we enjoy in america.

i bought my guns cause i like to make this go boom... :p

but now after owning guns, i am starting to move to the patriotic/freedom thinking. IMO guns represents all the freedoms/rights that the founding fathers fought for, believed for, and is inherit in every man/woman/child. it is an equalizer, a protector, and creator. when guns were first fielded in battle, it allowed lowly peasants to face off against the rich armored knights, it protected many in defending homes, lives, property and it allowed the founding fathers and all those that supported them to create this nation.

hoffmang
10-09-2009, 9:13 PM
Start here:


CONSIDER CERTAIN EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES. THEN FORCE MAY BE LEGITIMATE.

Commentators who recognize that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms often argue that self-formed militia groups are not the militia contemplated by the Second Amendment. They argue that the militia language in the Second Amendment neither expands nor contracts the right to arms. They also note that in forming these groups, members have not followed the state-created structure for the militia's training and use because the governor, who is the militia's commander-in-chief, has not called for their formation, and because the militias are not the product of a great majority acting by consensus as a course of last resort.[133] Under such a rubric, a state militia would not be formed as long as the majority of the people decides that "the existing structure of the government provides for peaceful and orderly change."[134]

A generation ago, during the Watergate crisis, Americans approached this level of doubt in the political system. Citizens feared that the President might overstep his legitimate powers and direct the army to prevent Congress from meeting to impeach him, or to block the courts from enjoining his illegal acts, or even to thwart a new federal election in 1976. Respected New York Times columnist Tom Wicker considered these issues and recognized that legitimate force could prevent these disastrous outcomes: "Even had he or some other President taken over Washington with tanks and machine guns, opposition might swiftly have been rallied around powerful state governors."[135] The National Guard could not restrain a President acting beyond his authority because the National Guard is "a federally funded and controlled force with a (very) thin facade of state control."[136] An armed populace, serving as another check and balance, provides meaningful deterrence. In considering the possible illegitimate excesses of our government, it is important that "[t]he Second Amendment recognizes the same reality as Mao Zedung's statement 'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' The underlying objective of the Framers, however, was precisely the opposite of Mao's; the Framers wanted ultimate power to belong to the people and not the government."[137]

Robert Dowlut, The Right to Keep and Bear Arms: A Right to Self-Defense Against Criminals and Despots, 8 Stanford L. & Pol'y Rev. 25-40 (1997).

-Gene

vrand
10-09-2009, 9:33 PM
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-- Thomas Jefferson

SkiDevil
10-09-2009, 9:58 PM
When our Nation was founded one of the most critical aspects of a "Free" people was the right to organize, speak their mind, and to have the capacity to defend themselves. As I once told a highschool teacher of mine; "If the Right to Keep and Bear Arms was not important, then why is it the Second Amendment and not the 10th?" She really didn't have an answer at the time.

So, I will answer it myself or better yet you can read the Federalist Papers and find specific examples for yourself.

Simply Put, the right to Bear Arms is so essential to the basic right of existence that the founders mandated it under a Bill of Rights; consisting of the first 10 Amendments of our Constitution.

The capacity to speak up and defend that expression cannot be done without a means of defense.

What are my personal thoughts on why I should own a gun or why others should do so. Because the only person in the world who can truly ensure your safety is YOURSELF. YOU are responsible for the protection of your own life.

Unless you live next to a Police station, calling 911 in an emergency is usually a 3-5 minute response if you live in a suburban or urban area. If you happen to live in a rural or unincorporated area then the response time could be 20-30 minutes. Even 3 minutes can be a really long time if someone is in the process of exacting great bodily harm to your person or worse your family.

In conclusion, like the cliche says 'An armed society is a Polite society'. I couldn't agree more.

Regards,
SkiDevil

P.S. When I was in college I wrote several papers on Gun Control and Firearms Legislation. Lexis-Nexus can provide a lot of good research material on the subject from Law Reviews and other Academic sources which are considered primary sources. Although the method required for your assignment suggested an alternative source for your assignment, I would strongly recommend completing some research on your own. One of the best parts of college is learning and I am not sold on the 'errornet' as one of the more reliable sources to obtain information from. Just a thought, good luck with the assignment.

Annonymous
10-09-2009, 10:07 PM
This is a great thread.

The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.
Know guns, know peace, know saftey. No guns, no peace, no saftey.
64,999,987 gun owners killed no one yesterday.
Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.
You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

Annonymous
10-09-2009, 10:09 PM
check out this link

http://www.californiavarmintcallers.com/second.htm

vrand
10-09-2009, 10:19 PM
Author: The Founders' View of the Right to Bear Arms, published Dec. 21, 2007

http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/05/david-e-young-interview.html

hoffmang
10-10-2009, 11:14 AM
I think you may also be able to quote the 9th Circuit from the denial of en banc hearing of Silveira: http://openjurist.org/328/f3d/567/silveira-v-lockyer

-Gene

Hunt
10-10-2009, 11:51 AM
here ya go the alternative source is an *event* Mumbai