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Shiloh13
10-09-2009, 12:07 AM
I have been looking at a couple of lever action rifles that are not over 50 yrs old (1968 or so), but are on the C&R list as I understand it from the dealers. I haven't personally checked the list, but I obviously would before making a purchase.

My question is, how does this work as far as California and its rules governing this type of sale? Both a C&R and COE are in hand or soon will be.

As I understand it, as long as they are officially on the C&R list, and I have these documents in hand, I am good to go. What am I missing? I still see these rifles as modern rifles and I am thoroughly confused. :confused:

These dealers are both local, and on line (out of state).
Thanks for the help.

ke6guj
10-09-2009, 12:18 AM
ok, assuming tht you are correct in that they are on the list, you can do the following.

You can go out-of-state and purchase them as a C&R FFL and bring them back to CA. Your COE does not come into play. You do not need to report the importation to CADOJ. You will need to enter the seller's info into your bound book.

You can purchase from a CA dealer, or have an out-of-state seller ship to your local dealer. With both the C&R+COE, you would be exempt from the 10-day wait and could take them home immediately after you filled out the DROS. You would need to log the CA-dealer's info into your bound book as where you got it.

You cannot have an out-of-state seller ship the firearm directly to your home.

You cannot do a cash-and-carry deal with a private-party while in CA.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-09-2009, 2:19 AM
Pre-1964 Winchester M94's are on the C&R list, but not all of them are over 50 years old. That could be what the OP is talking about. But yeah, what ke6guj posted about the transactions is what you need to follow. While out of State you can acquire any C&R firearms as a C&R FFL and bring them back with you to California. While inside of California, you can only acquire C&R long guns that are at least 50 years old without going through a California licensed dealer.

Shiloh13
10-09-2009, 10:35 AM
As always, thanks for the replies.

This is what I thought. I have seen a couple of nice Winchester 94 commemoratives that would be nice shooters, but clearly less than 50 yrs. old. They are listed in section ii of the ATF C&R list. I just needed to clarify what I believed was the correct procedure.

packnrat
10-09-2009, 11:54 AM
Regulation (27 CFR 178.11)
Curios or relics include firearms which are of special intreast to collectors by reason of some quality.
To b a curio or relic:
1:at least 50 years old... But not replicas.
2:firearms certified by a curator of a museum to be of museum interest.
3:any other firearm that derives value do to being novel, rare, bizarre, or conected to a historical figure, event, (with papers-proof-),
or not available through ordinary commercial channels.

Please read the whole set of laws the batf and the doj set up for you.
Get to know them, and you should be good to go.

Shiloh13
10-09-2009, 9:20 PM
Regulation (27 CFR 178.11)
Curios or relics include firearms which are of special intreast to collectors by reason of some quality.
To b a curio or relic:
1:at least 50 years old... But not replicas.
2:firearms certified by a curator of a museum to be of museum interest.
3:any other firearm that derives value do to being novel, rare, bizarre, or conected to a historical figure, event, (with papers-proof-),
or not available through ordinary commercial channels.

Please read the whole set of laws the batf and the doj set up for you.
Get to know them, and you should be good to go.

I read that, and I am aware of this information.
What is your point? What does this have to do with California's regulations as far as online purchases for firearms less than 50 years old, but still on the BATF's C&R list? As explained by the other posts, they must still go through an FFL01 dealer. I requested information on California's laws, not an accusation that I didn't read or pay attention to the basic information included from the BATF.

M. D. Van Norman
10-12-2009, 8:24 AM
Shiloh13, the trouble is that you will not find any clause covering on-line C&R purchases in California law. However, most in-state transactions require face-to-face interaction between the buyer and a licensed dealer. I don’t think a COE exempts anyone from that fact.

dfletcher
10-12-2009, 8:59 AM
Regulation (27 CFR 178.11)
Curios or relics include firearms which are of special intreast to collectors by reason of some quality.
To b a curio or relic:
1:at least 50 years old... But not replicas.
2:firearms certified by a curator of a museum to be of museum interest.
3:any other firearm that derives value do to being novel, rare, bizarre, or conected to a historical figure, event, (with papers-proof-),
or not available through ordinary commercial channels.

Please read the whole set of laws the batf and the doj set up for you.
Get to know them, and you should be good to go.

While it is true that a federally classified C & R long gun (fewer than 50 year old) is per CA state law a C & R, it is not afforded the same benefit of a dealerless transaction as a C & R long gun that is greater than 50 years old. Still a C & R, but loses some of the "benefits" in CA.

Gator Monroe
10-12-2009, 9:11 AM
My Smithsonian Condition /as new/unissued blond T series (1983) M59/66A1 is C&R !:chris:

Shiloh13
10-12-2009, 12:59 PM
Thanks for the helpful replies.