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Mr331
04-16-2005, 4:55 PM
I finally got my rifle together. It's got the Vulcan lower, Bushmaster upper with a 16" barrel. Rounds 9 and 10 would never feed. Rounds 1-8, no problem. I looked through the ejection port and could see that the bullets were sitting with a slight nose up slant causing the bolt to miss the bullet. I would pull the charging handle and lock the bolt open then reach in and press the nose of the next round down and the final 2 would fire fine. I don't know if it just needs some more wear (It's brand new) or if I should start looking at different solutions. I have wiped down the inside of the mag with a light coat of CLP to see if that would help.

Mr331
04-16-2005, 4:55 PM
I finally got my rifle together. It's got the Vulcan lower, Bushmaster upper with a 16" barrel. Rounds 9 and 10 would never feed. Rounds 1-8, no problem. I looked through the ejection port and could see that the bullets were sitting with a slight nose up slant causing the bolt to miss the bullet. I would pull the charging handle and lock the bolt open then reach in and press the nose of the next round down and the final 2 would fire fine. I don't know if it just needs some more wear (It's brand new) or if I should start looking at different solutions. I have wiped down the inside of the mag with a light coat of CLP to see if that would help.

bwiese
04-16-2005, 5:10 PM
Thanks for posting good details. And at least you've started with a good quality upper with milspec chamber and chrome-lined barrel. Great start, we can likely rule these items out in debugging.

AR problems often revolve around (1) poor lubrication and (2) magazine quality. Since this is a Calif AR you can't substitute a quality USGI 30rd magazine unfortunately.

Conceivably your fixed mag is just new and needs breaking in. Get a stick, dowel, etc. and with just your bare lower, sit down and watch TV and exercise the follower up & down several hundred times. It sounds like binding is toward rear of magazine so inspect for rough spots, dents, welds above internal surface, etc.

If problems persist you might be able to replace your magazine follower with a quality 'green follower' (if it will fit in Vulcan mag): these were designed to stop 'tipping' and might help. You might also want to replace the internal magazine spring with a mag spring from a 10rd Bushmaster mag (again, if this will fit).

I suspect if your mag spring were a bit stronger, the rear of the follower might not bind.

Let us/me know how it goes!

Bill Wiese
San Jose

C.G.
04-16-2005, 6:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Conceivably your fixed mag is just new and needs breaking in. Get a stick, dowel, etc. and with just your bare lower, sit down and watch TV and exercise the follower up & down several hundred times. It sounds like binding is toward rear of magazine so inspect for rough spots, dents, welds above internal surface, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I had the same problem with my FAB-10. I did exactly what Bill Wiese suggested then and exercised the mag, not even a hundred times and have not had any problems since.

Mr331
04-16-2005, 9:48 PM
Thanks for the replies. I kind of felt that working the follower a bit might help. The Vulcan follower is the green one. I can already see that the spring and follower will be the downfall of this unit. With no way to replace $4.00 worth of parts, your $250 lower will be junk! One other thing I forgot to mention. The bolt catch would not hold the bolt open after the last round. I think the follower is still the culprit. It was binding a bit in the rear, as Bill mentioned, and i think it would not rise up enough to engage the catch. Again, I'm gonna work the follower tomorrow.

Ted: my mag catch is not operational. You can see the white “glue” substance used on the mag at the edge of the button. I picked mine out of a group of 8 and none of them worked. This was also one of the first batches of 10 rounders too, so who knows.

I also want to mention the Fab 10 rear takedown pin. I'm talking about the one with the "key ring" attached. Well worth the money! I highly recommend it.

I want to know why no one uses an actual USGI 10 rd mag and then attach it to the lower. I might e-mail Vulcan and see if they could make that for me on the next one I buy. I think if Vulcan would just do that, they would steal this market. The actual lower it self is fine. Looks like any other lower, but the mag is a bit rough.

Anyway, the rifle was a blast to shoot. My wife enjoyed it a lot more than the Garand and SKS, LOL. Once I get this FTF situation fixed, I’ll zero it in.

bwiese
04-16-2005, 10:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr331:
The Vulcan follower is the green one. I can already see that the spring and follower will be the downfall of this unit. With no way to replace $4.00 worth of parts, your $250 lower will be junk! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean there is NO way to even repair your lower's internal magazine??

The green follower is not at fault. The mag body/lips may be and may be restricting follower movement with more force than pressure exerted by mag spring. Maybe a Wolff spring for a 10rd mag might help (if they exist, otherwise try Bushmaster's).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The bolt catch would not hold the bolt open after the last round. I think the follower is still the culprit. It was binding a bit in the rear, as Bill mentioned, and i think it would not rise up enough to engage the catch.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bolt catches can cause problems. If your bolt catch is out of spec or the wrong spring is used in it or the spring you have is crappy, some dragging might be happening. Also, bolt catch plunger may have been forgotten or disconnector spring? or buffer detent pin spring? was accidentally substituted. It should take some moderate force to depress the bolt catch, a tad more if it's gonna release the bolt it's holding open. If it can't hold the bolt open spring may be too loose and perhaps it's 'chattering' during operation and blocking something? Look into this and get it fixed, as it needs to be fixed anyways.

Replacement bolt catches, plungers and springs are cheap. You will need a roll pin punch and another roll pin to replace these.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Again, I'm gonna work the follower tomorrow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good. You might "wear in" follower to any roughness in the metal surrounding it.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I want to know why no one uses an actual USGI 10 rd mag and then attach it to the lower.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's no such thing as a 'USGI 10 round mag'. All USGI mags are 30 rounds. Bushmaster is the only co I know with reasonably reliable 10rd AR15 magazines.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The actual lower it self is fine. Looks like any other lower, but the mag is a bit rough. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Magazine quality, along with proper lubrication, are two key issues in proper AR15 operation. Most aftermarket non-USGI mags (esp USA mags, Precision Mags, PMI, etc.) are junque. No matter how good the rest of the system is, bad mags can slow down an AR.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Mr331
04-17-2005, 8:17 AM
I should have said, “start with a USGI 30rd if they are going to cut then down to 10rd”. As Ted mentioned before, this mag was cut down to 10 then a floor plate welded on.

I wonder if the mag releases button is glued up to keep us from that pin? My button can’t be pressed. It’s glued in the outward position, not able to move. The whole batch of 8 I picked from was the same way. Some followers were black, some green. Looks like Walmart_Special's follower is green as well. However this green follower can tilt more that other green followers I’ve seen.

If that pin can come out (probably flirting with the law) then replace the mag with a Bushmaster 10rd and put the pin back in…Hmmmmm. The key would be putting the pin back in, I want to emphasize that.

Since the floor plate is welded on, there appears to be no way to get the current follower and spring out. That is without bending lips and such. Is that correct?

Mr331
04-17-2005, 8:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Not an indicator of a good quality magazine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. I would like to see about getting that mag out and replacing it with a Bushmaster 10rd. Like I said before, I would only try that if I could re-pin it in place as to make it non-removable

C.G.
04-17-2005, 7:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Exactly. I would like to see about getting that mag out and replacing it with a Bushmaster 10rd. Like I said before, I would only try that if I could re-pin it in place as to make it non-removable </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Keep us posted whether you suceeded or not.

Mr331
04-17-2005, 7:52 PM
I have no idea how to get the pin out. I think it's called a "blind hole". You can punch a pin in, but not through. The pin has to be backed out some how.......

I'm pretty sure the stuff is too hard to drill out. The roll pin looks to be the size of the trigger guard roll pin.

bwiese
04-17-2005, 7:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Mr331 wrote:
Exactly. I would like to see about getting that mag out and replacing it with a Bushmaster 10rd. Like I said before, I would only try that if I could re-pin it in place as to make it non-removable </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">cg wrote:
Keep us posted whether you suceeded or not! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps I am paranoid but...

I would not remove the mag from a Vulcan while in California. If this work is to be done it should be done out of state (and have some travel receipt(s) for it).

Removing the 'permanently' pinned magazine from a Vulcan removes the whole rationale for why it was allowed by Calif DOJ as being 'different enough' from a regular (banned) AR lower. When the Vulcan fixed mag is removed, you just have a regular AR receiver. While there may be some handwaving on legalities between Kasler and Harrot decisions, it's a risk a prudent person shouldn't take.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Mr331
04-17-2005, 8:12 PM
I totally agree with you Bill. I have family in Nevada. The next time I go I am going to take it to a shop that my Uncle uses for custom stuff. That way I could get a receipt and they are lawfully able to do the work. I personally don't know of any shops locally willing/able/licensed to do the work.

bwiese
04-17-2005, 8:32 PM
Mr331...

I wouldn't worry too much about having shop do work if you know how to do it.

Just do it out of state - if you had the bad luck for a relative to have a medical or police problem while the lower was disassembled, that's the main risk.

And if for some reason questions ever raised about when & where the mod happened, there's strong 'reasonable doubt' that no DA would charge you - esp if you had some receipts for a trip to Reno, etc.

Bill

schizrade
04-17-2005, 9:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:

Perhaps I am paranoid but...

I would not remove the mag from a Vulcan while in California. If this work is to be done it should be done out of state (and have some travel receipt(s) for it).

Removing the 'permanently' pinned magazine from a Vulcan removes the whole rationale for why it was allowed by Calif DOJ as being 'different enough' from a regular (banned) AR lower. When the Vulcan fixed mag is removed, you just have a regular AR receiver. While there may be some handwaving on legalities between Kasler and Harrot decisions, it's a risk a prudent person shouldn't take.

Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bill, you are TOTALLY paranoid.... but good advice anyway. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dr. EBR
04-21-2005, 6:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:

The green follower is not at fault. The mag body/lips may be and may be restricting follower movement with more force than pressure exerted by mag spring. Maybe a Wolff spring for a 10rd mag might help (if they exist, otherwise try Bushmaster's).

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I got a chance to look at one this week at a shop and I brought in a USGI green follower just to see if Vulcan uses a genuine spec follower. Vulcan's is a little shorter in length and you can tell it will not extend back far enough to properly engage the bolt catch.

Mr331
04-25-2005, 6:02 PM
I called the DOJ today to ask them some questions, specifically about the mag and changing it out. I spoke with a lady named Cathy. I told her I had a Vulcan California legal lower with the 10rd mag pinned in. I explained that I would like to have the mag replaced with a better quality 10rd mag and, of course, pin it back in place. My questions were based on being done at a gunsmith, since that is the path I plan on. I explained I was concerned with the legalities. She told me “as long as the new magazine only holds 10rds and is re-pinned there is no problem”. I then asked if there would be a problem due to the fact that the old mag will be out momentarily. I was more concerned if they would want me to find an AW licensed gunsmith to do the work. She said “ no, the rifle going in is a 10rd fixed mag and when it is done it will be a 10rd fixed mag”. I now wish I had asked what would be been the ramifications if I was to do this on my own. It doesn’t matter, I’m going to take it to a smith to drill out. I don’t have a drill press and I don’t wanna “bubba it up”. I’m gonna order a 10rd mag right now from Bushmaster. Bill, what are your thoughts?

schizrade
04-25-2005, 8:21 PM
I am sure the great Bill ( http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )will concur, but get it in writing.

(Just meesing with you bill.)

Like I said in the other thread, as long as you are re-pinning the mag I would not lose sleep over it.

just4fun63
05-01-2005, 3:10 PM
I don't know if I missed it or not but where can you get one of these lowers? I looked at the Vulcan web site and didn't see them?

Thanks

C.G.
05-01-2005, 4:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't know if I missed it or not but where can you get one of these lowers? I looked at the Vulcan web site and didn't see them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am not sure where Prather is; but Sonoma Firearms carries them for $250.

C.G.
05-01-2005, 4:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I then asked if there would be a problem due to the fact that the old mag will be out momentarily. I was more concerned if they would want me to find an AW licensed gunsmith to do the work. She said “ no, the rifle going in is a 10rd fixed mag and when it is done it will be a 10rd fixed mag”. I now wish I had asked what would be been the ramifications if I was to do this on my own. It doesn’t matter, I’m going to take it to a smith to drill out. I don’t have a drill press and I don’t wanna “bubba it up”. I’m gonna order a 10rd mag right now from Bushmaster. Bill, what are your thoughts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is good news; I just may buy a Vulcan in addition to my FAB-10, it would be lot easier replacing the mag on the Vulcan over Fab-10 (I think the FAB-10 mag is a cut down mag as well, but so far no source that I can find). Let us know, if you do get it in writing. Good choice on the mag; I have 5 Bushmaster 10 rounders for my SU-16 and so far they've worked without a hitch; didn't even have to exercise them.

TonyM
05-01-2005, 5:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cg:
I am not sure where Prather is; but Sonoma Firearms carries them for $250. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that actually the store name? I googled it, and checked on Yahoo Yellowpages with no success.

Thanks.

C.G.
05-01-2005, 6:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Is that actually the store name? I googled it, and checked on Yahoo Yellowpages with no success. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sonoma Firearms, Inc.
7770 Truffle Ct.,
Antelope, CA 95843
916-761-0209
Which local are you?

TonyM
05-01-2005, 6:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Is that actually the store name? I googled it, and checked on Yahoo Yellowpages with no success. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sonoma Firearms, Inc.
7770 Truffle Ct.,
Antelope, CA 95843
916-761-0209
Which local are you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks,

I'm actually in Brentwood, but don't mind driving.

C.G.
05-01-2005, 6:58 PM
No worries; so far Sonoma treated me well.

bwiese
05-01-2005, 7:59 PM
Mr331...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Mr331 wrote:
...called DOJ today to ask them some questions, specifically about the mag and changing it out. I spoke with a lady named Cathy. I told her I had a Vulcan California legal lower with the 10rd mag pinned in. I explained that I would like to have the mag replaced with a better quality 10rd mag and, of course, pin it back in place. My questions were based on being done at a gunsmith, since that is the path I plan on. I explained I was concerned with the legalities. She told me “as long as the new magazine only holds 10 rds and is re-pinned there is no problem”. I then asked if there would be a problem due to the fact that the old mag will be out momentarily. I was more concerned if they would want me to find an AW licensed gunsmith to do the work.

She said "No, the rifle going in is a 10rd fixed mag and when it is done it will be a 10rd fixed mag". I now wish I had asked what would be been the ramifications if I was to do this on my own. It doesn’t matter, I’m going to take it to a smith to drill out. I don’t have a drill press and I don’t wanna “bubba it up”. I’m gonna order a 10rd mag right now from Bushmaster.

Bill, what are your thoughts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, Cathy is most likely a front-line clerk/"analyst" etc. She may well not be even a LEO/ DOJ agent with arrest powers. She is not a lawyer, nor can she really speak "officially" for the agency, etc. She probably does not have as deep of a grasp of CA AW laws as do some of the folks here.

In short, she may be very nice. But her perceptions of legality do not offer you any legal 'safe harbor'. You can't just say "but the front desk lady told me it was legal". Even relying on a cop for determination of what's legal or not is not that good or useful.

Remember, 99% of CA prosecutions usu do not happen with DOJ or AG's office. They are conducted by local DAs - some of whom'd be horrified by "assault weapons production" at a "local gunshop".

And I don't think a sane plain ol' FFL gunsmith in CA would take this job - whether or not he has a CA Assault Weapons Permit. There is legal exposure if inspection agent(s) come in when the mag is unpinned from the AR lower. Even with such a permit, he'd end up 'manufacturing' an AW that was not papered as one, which could be interesting.

Remember, an FFL can't keep your registered AW overngiht without this permit - otherwise you have to stand over his shoulder while he works on it.

Speaking paranoically, I would not have the roll pin drifted out of this Vulcan lower while within CA's border (or territorial waters ;-) )

This is a slightly borderline case however. When the rollpin is gone, you have a Vulcan AR-type lower. It is NOT on the "Roster of AR and AK Series Weapons" published by the DOJ. While August 2000 Kasler decision says, in essence, all AR lowers fall back into "AR15 and series" of Roberti-Roos, the later Harrott v. Kings County decision set up certain standards of promulgation. It may be that since it's not on this list, you might just be in the clear.... but I really really would not like to trust Harrott as it's new, untested law and not sure of full ramifications.

Because if just Kasler holds, the moment you've plucked the roll pin, you have a banned and unregsitered AR15 - possible felony charge.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

marklbucla
05-04-2005, 5:17 AM
Instead of pinning the mag back in, what do you think about creating something like this:

http://www.hicapmagparts.com/ca15.htm

C.G.
05-04-2005, 8:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Instead of pinning the mag back in, what do you think about creating something like this:

http://www.hicapmagparts.com/ca15.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would work on a FAL, but not on an AR-15 (AR-15 specifically named an assault weapon, and disallowed). These people do live in California, but do not offer DOJ letter accompanying their claim; it is not their butt that will end up in the can.

marklbucla
05-04-2005, 2:12 PM
I mean, what difference does it make if it's screwed in vs. pinned in? They both would require tools to remove the mag and as long as it's never a detachable mag AR-15 in the state of CA, it's all the same right?

And I'm talking about doing the same mod on a CA Vulcan, not some random AR brought in.

bwiese
05-04-2005, 3:21 PM
Mark...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Instead of pinning the mag back in, what do you think about creating something like this:
http://www.hicapmagparts.com/ca15.htm
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That guy could get someone in trouble. I hope he's willing to pay for their attorney.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> what difference does it make if it's screwed in vs. pinned in? They both would require tools to remove the mag... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because by law ARs and AKs are different than generic assault weapons that are not specifically named by Roberti-Roos law



The Calif DOJ seems to think that pinning is more permanent and, for whatever reason requires significantly more effort to remove and less common tools than a screwdriver. That's their right: they establish technical standards. This line of thinking is somewhat along the lines of BATF's regarding muzzle attachments: soldering one on isn't permanent, but a pinned & welded one is.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...and as long as it's never a detachable mag AR-15 in the state of CA, it's all the same right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No!!

Again, this is because by CA law and court decisions ARs and AKs are different than generic assault weapons that are not specifically named by Roberti-Roos law.

We are in a very grey area here as I mentioned in prior posts above.

Type III AWs like FAL clones - but not specifically named FN FALs themselves - are 'by-feature' generic assault weapons. Remove the evil features (like fixing the magazine) and you're CA legal. By contrast, a true FN-FAL was specifically named, and is an AW even if it is just a bare receiver.

Type II AWs in California - all ARs and AKs as well - were ALL declared, no matter what brand, as AWs by the Aug 2000 [I]Kasler decision and thrown back in to the "Colt AR15 and series" class of the original Roberti-Roos AWCA of 1989. Simply stated, if it looks like a regular AR lower reciever it IS an AR - no matter if there are evil features attached like pistol grips etc.

The DOJ specially exempted FAB10, etc. because they felt that lack of a open magwell made it sufficiently different in a key area and removed its "AR-ness". The DOJ exempted GB Sales' modified Bushmasters because their magwells were welded shut - which is considered permanent even though you could mill it out. They also for some reason approved the Vulcan because the fixed mag pinned+glued in there seemed permanent enough to them.

But once a pinned mag from a Vulcan is removed, there's a plain unregistered AR lower just sitting there. That could be regarded as illegal.... but:

There is some handwaving due to later Harrott v Kings County decision. As I said above,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...When the rollpin is gone, you have a Vulcan AR-type lower. It is NOT on the "Roster of AR and AK Series Weapons" published by the DOJ. While Aug 2000 Kasler decision says, in essence, all AR lowers fall back into "AR15 and series" of Roberti-Roos, the later Harrott v. Kings County decision set up certain standards of promulgation. It may be that since it's not on this list, you might just be in the clear.... but I really really would not like to trust Harrott as it's new, untested law and not sure of full ramifications.

Because if just Kasler holds, the moment you've plucked the roll pin, you have a banned and unregsitered AR15 - possible felony charge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember, DOJ doesn't usually prosecute. Individuals are generally WAY below their radar. 99% of prosecutions are done by county DAs, who often have political concerns. And cops may not know about fine points of Kasler decision vs Harrott decision, etc.

Just be safe, drive to Reno before popping the roll pin, and replace it before driving back to CA


Bill Wiese
San Jose