View Full Version : Sacbee and ammo ordinace...again

10-07-2009, 11:17 AM
Sacramento's ammo oridinace should be a model (http://www.sacbee.com/breton/story/2236081.html)[sacbee.com]

Doesn't state AB962 in the atricle specifically, but with it about to go into law possibly...timing is suspect.

10-07-2009, 11:20 AM
Sacramento's ammo ordnance has actually caused police harassment of legit ammo buyers.

Of course some gang banger killed another with a .40 -- so that means the regular ol' dude down the street who bought some .40 at Big 5 for home protection must be guilty and hauled to PD for questioning.

10-07-2009, 11:28 AM
The Sacramento ordinance is, at it's core, a waste of police resources... something I've made clear in repeated letters to the Governor on AB962.

Sac PD has to devote headcount to following up every ammo purchase. Presumably, someone(s) in the records bureau has to run every ammo purchaser recorded/reported out for criminal history. Those that flag as potentially prohibited go to the detective bureau for followup. All of those need to be actively investigated a detective. Don't know what the ratio of true positives to false positives is, but IIRC the number of actual arrests is not particularly large.

Fold into that all the legit ammo purchasers in Bill's scenario, who are being followed up on in unknown suspect shooting cases and it rapidly devolves down into a trip down the rabbit warren.

Amplify that state wide and you create a massive drain on LEA resources. This is why very few CLEOs are actually out in favor, and none of the CLEO / LEO organizations have come up in support.

10-07-2009, 11:30 AM
Has anyone seen a published editorial that shares our perspective on AB962?

10-07-2009, 12:22 PM
This comment was particularly interesting

Billy wrote on 10/07/2009 12:04:43 PM:

"The ordinance targets criminals, not law-abiding citizens. It doesn't take guns out of the hands of honest people."

What about Anthony Martinez? Go look up the 8/17/08 City Council Meeting, item 17, where he told city council about how he bought ammo for target shooting, then a couple days later had cops at his door demanding he turn over his gun for ballistic tests. All because he bought the same caliber of ammo used in a recent shooting.

Tell me again about how this doesn't effect law abiding gun owners.


10-09-2009, 8:35 AM
Has anyone seen a published editorial that shares our perspective on AB962?

Here are a few:

California targets ammunition sales (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/118544)
Kimberly A Dvorak
September 10, 2009
Another attack on the Second Amendment in California could result is less ammunition for gun owners and more paperwork for gun retailers. California´s AB 962 legislation has been introduced by Democrat Assembly member Kevin de Leon of Los Angeles.

Gun owners find California´s AB 962 a serious threat to the right´s of law-abiding gun owners in the state. Assemblyman de Leon couldn´t disagree more. "These simple rules governing handgun ammunition will protect police officers, families and children from deadly gun violence," he said.

Since March the bill has undergone some changes. One such provision within the bill that has been removed would have forced retailers to be licensed in order to sell ammunition. Although this provision was stripped, many gun owners in the state feel they must always remain alert or their guns will be taken away altogether.

California has quickly become known as a state that runs business, well, out of business. Regulations, taxes and unfriendly legislators in Sacramento have run the once Golden State into the Pacific Ocean.

That being said, AB 962 still contains rules that gun owners don´t appreciate. First, retail store owners will have to make the ammunition inaccessible from purchasers. The legislation requires individuals buying ammunition to be fingerprinted at the time of the sale.

AB 962 would also mandate that ammunition dealers keep these records and have them available for inspection by the Department of Justice. Gun owners believe this may cause some dealers to stop selling ammunition altogether.

Finally, mail order ammunition sales will be banned in California under AB 962.

Gun-rights activists encourage all responsible gun owners to contact their state representatives to voice their concern regarding this new anti-gun bill.

For more information on AB 962; democrats.assembly.ca.gov/members/a45/press/20090707AD45PR01.htm

For more stories;www.examiner.com/x-10317-San-Diego-County-Political-Buzz-Examiner

Veto AB 962 (http://www.dailybulletin.com/letters/ci_13440574)
Created: 09/28/2009 07:25:37 PM PDT

I read the Sept. 16 letter on AB 962 ("`Backdoor' gun control"), and I am really not surprised.

Ammo restrictions are just the next step by the Democrats to disarm the public and make the streets safe for criminal gangs and socialist thugs!

Making legal restrictions on ammo will do nothing to stop crime. After the 1968 Gun Control Law was passed, 32billion rounds of handgun ammunition were registered over 18 years and not a single crime was solved nor, to my knowledge, was any of this data even used.

What it did was make it a burden to sellers because they had to store all of this useless data at their own expense. The real purpose was to find out what kind of handguns John Q. Citizen had in his home. They might not have a serial number, but if he bought 200 rounds of 45ACP every month you could pretty well guess what kind of gun he owned. The only reason the government would want that kind of info is for future confiscation! We must be disarmed before they can move forward with the "Socialist State."

This law is just another useless effort by the liberals to look tough on crime. It instead makes it tough on the law-abiding gun enthusiast. Do you think that just because the Legislature passed a so-called Assault Weapons Law the gangs don't have AK-47s?

The 10-round magazine restriction? Do you really think gangbangers won't have 15-round magazines? Let there be more riots or an earthquake and that extra five rounds might just make a lot difference when you are defending your home!

The ammo restriction law had a 50 round per month limit in the original bill. This will only affect sports shooters because criminals don't shoot 1,000 rounds per week to perfect their skill. They only need one bullet and the threat of "deadly force" to murder, rob, rape or get whatever they want.

As for Norma Torres, someday there has to be some kind of requirement to be a state legislator other than being willing to do anything (i.e., sell out the Constitution and her constituents) to make her Democrat handlers happy. I didn't vote for her!

Call, write or e-mail the governor and tell him to veto this law!


10-09-2009, 8:37 AM
one more

Arguments against ammo misfired (http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_13468449)
Jim Matthews, Outdoor Writer
Created: 10/01/2009 11:23:21 PM PDT

You can count on most newspaper editorial writers to come down on the side of gun control and restrictions on ammunition sales because they don't own guns, don't understand guns and have a wonderful penchant for confusing apples and oranges.

Sometimes, it also seems like they were raised on a planet where no one takes any personal responsibility for their actions.

An editorial in a fading major daily this week encouraged Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to sign the ill-conceived and poorly written AB 962, the bill that would require gun shops to have ammunition buyers fill out a form and leave a thumbprint. The stated intent is to keep ammunition out of the wrong hands and help law enforcement agencies put crooks behind bars when they do something wrong.

Common sense and nearly 20 years of a similar federal law have proven the bill can't and won't do either thing, but the anti-gunners press on, ignoring the facts.

The editorial used the sterling example of a driver's license, which it said combats identity theft, helps track criminals and keeps unsafe driver's off the road. Are you laughing yet?

All we get from a driver's license is an ID card that says we've paid our dues at the Department of Motor Vehicles and supported a bureaucracy that the public uses only when forced.

It spoke about meth labs and how we now have to present our ID when we buy cold medicines. But it didn't point out that meth production is not down and
that the requirement has had little or no positive impact in catching meth makers.

It's just a pain for the rest of us. My wife, who's had a nasty cold, had to take an extra five minutes to buy her cold medicine this week. A big deal? No, but she'd much rather have had those five minutes to have her feet propped up at home.

The editorial pointed out that we're all carded when we buy booze to keep it out of the hands of minors. The writer apparently didn't know we have to do that now with ammunition already, just like with booze. Of course, this doesn't make much sense because kids can legally hunt, target shoot, or use a gun to defend themselves in their home, but you already have to be 21 to buy handgun ammunition.

So what was their point? The editorial said the registration only affects handgun ammunition, but the reality is that all metallic ammunition is affected because there are handguns that can shoot any and all sporting and military rounds.

So the "no mail-order" clause effectively puts out of business custom loaders who reload ammunition for the hunting marketplace. Or sure, they can ship the ammo to a licensed dealer who will do the paperwork for a customer - and add a surcharge for providing the service, just like they do now with firearms. It will effectively end the activity, in spite of what bill supporters say.

The editorial said the law would help law enforcement investigate gang shootings by allowing them to see who bought the ammunition used in the criminal activity. It can't and won't do that. There is no way to trace ammunition back to its purchase box.

A 9mm is a 9mm is a 9mm. You might identify the manufacturer by the casing or slug, but there's no way to draw a line from a round, to a box of ammo, to a store, to a purchaser, back to a shooter. Everything about this bill is based on false premises and warped thinking.

My point is that the editorial writers get everything wrong, half-wrong, or use analogies that don't apply. But what can we expect? They constantly use the word "bullets" when they actually mean "ammunition." You only hear that usage from six-year-olds and newspaper writers.

As you know, a bullet is a component of a loaded round of ammunition. It's the part that exits the end of the barrel when a gun is fired. "Bullets" and "ammunition" are not interchangeable words.

We don't say "engine" when we mean "automobile." If they can't even get the word usage correct, can we really expect them to do any real research to back up their commentary?

The bill and those who support it are interested in discriminating against legal gun owners. These are people who are afraid of guns and people who own and use them, and they are terrified of the Second Amendment of the Constitution. They also don't particularly like the First Amendment when someone like you or I point out the fallacy of their arguments in support of legislation like AB 962.

Amazingly, that bill passed through both houses of our state government and awaits the signature or veto of the Governor. If it will waste time and effort writing and passing laws like this, is it any wonder our state government is mired in dysfunctionality?

Two-day firearms event in Murrieta

There is a rare opportunity for shooters and hunters to meet with the industry staff from ATK, the company that owns Federal, CCI, Speer, Weaver, Fusion, Champion and several other gun and ammunition companies.

The ATK tractor-trailer will be at The Shootist in old town Murrieta from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. today and Saturday. The staff can answer questions about new products, the availability of ammunition and why prices have increased, or a host of other questions related to the industry.

For information or directions, call The Shootist at (951) 698-7543.

Cliff McDonald's guzzler crew

Cliff McDonald's Water for Wildlife work project this past weekend brought out 26 volunteers to refurbish five guzzlers near Halloran Springs in the East Mojave. That brings McDonald's total to 76 guzzlers repaired and improved for wildlife.

Volunteers who'd like to participate in the next event this fall should send Cliff an e-mail at bigmc@citlink.net.

Winter trout wars' first salvo

Until the latest round of Santa Ana winds and warm weather, it looked like the urban trout season might kick off as early as this weekend at Santa Ana River Lakes and Corona Lake. But it wasn't to be.

The water is still just too warm, according to Craig Elliott at The Lakes. He says it will likely happen by Oct. 14, and that the waters will be planted with three-types of rainbow trout this year, including the Nebraska Tailwalkers from Chalk Mound Trout Ranch in Nebraska, Mt. Lassen Sierra 'Bows from Red Bluff, and the Ruby Red Steelhead from Jess Ranch in Hesperia. All of these fish are reputed to be the most wild-looking fish ever raised in hatcheries.

"We're getting trout from three different sources this year instead of just one, and the focus is on quality trout," said Elliott. "We'll have a constant supply of trout with full fins and gorgeous colors."