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serrogate
10-07-2009, 10:32 AM
Hello Im new to the forums and ive read this site for a while but never joined but i have to ask a question now. A few nights ago My wife and I were walking around the neighborhood and there was a suspicious person that came within 10 feet of us while walking that had no reason to and then walked the other way, well this scaired my wife some and now she wants some more protection than just my 300 pound body lol. Since i cant carry my gun through the neighorhood and i dont wanna walk around with a machete because it might scare the neighbors i was thinking about a medieval mace not pepperspary because i want something a little more visually threatening than a baseball bat. The question is, is this legal? i cant find any laws on it and I am asking for your help. Oh and i have called the police department and they dont know as funny as it sounds, because i dont take "i think so" and "maybe" as answers. Thank you

detcord
10-07-2009, 10:42 AM
uhh so a machete will scare your neighbors but a mace wont? maces can be quite intimidating... a flail would be kinda funny to carry tho.

ke6guj
10-07-2009, 10:44 AM
12020 is probably the section that would cover a mace.



12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

wash
10-07-2009, 10:45 AM
Get a nice hardwood cane.

serrogate
10-07-2009, 10:52 AM
those weapons listed are concealable bludgeoning weapons i dont think they apply to a larger club weapon

serrogate
10-07-2009, 10:54 AM
uhh so a machete will scare your neighbors but a mace wont? maces can be quite intimidating... a flail would be kinda funny to carry tho.

well im just saying carrying a machete looks like your looking to cause intentional trouble (especially from a LEO's prespective). A mace would look like its made for self defense more if your walking with someone.

ke6guj
10-07-2009, 10:55 AM
those weapons listed are concealable bludgeoning weapons i dont think they apply to a larger club weaponI don't see 12020 only applying to concealable items. The courts have ruled a common baseball bat to be a "billy" when possessed as a weapon instead of a sporting implement.

well im just saying carrying a machete looks like your looking to cause intentional trouble (especially from a LEO's prespective). A mace would look like its made for self defense more if your walking with someone.

Actually, carrying a machette that is not concealed is perfectly legal. But carrying an item that falls under 12020, even for self-defense, is a crime. As an example, there is case law regarding security guards that carried large "Mag-Lite" flashlights as a self-defense striking tool. They were convicted of possessing a billy.

serrogate
10-07-2009, 11:00 AM
a billy club is usually considered a baton
Noun 1. billy club - a short stout club used primarily by policemen
and i meant that the weapons posted can be concealed and hence the laws against them

ke6guj
10-07-2009, 11:06 AM
that definition you posted for a billy may be fine for everyday usage, but as it applies to 12020, case law has widened it to include non-concealable items such as baseball bats and long mag-lite flashlights.

Decoligny
10-07-2009, 11:07 AM
those weapons listed are concealable bludgeoning weapons i dont think they apply to a larger club weapon

A full sized baseball bat, if carried solely for the purpose of defending yourself, it considered a "Billy" and people have been prosecuted for carrying a baseball bat beside the drivers seat in their car.

I highly suggest a sturdy walking stick, or a self-defense cane. While out on your walks it is simply a tool to help you to keep your balance, and the help you keep from turning your ankle.

If needed this tool can be used effectively to defend yourself from an attacking dog, or an attacking person.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090323/cane-fu/images/4e0fc2a8-7b56-4ed7-a806-465126e04e46.jpg

BigDogatPlay
10-07-2009, 11:08 AM
Batons are caled out by name in other sections. A billy is, a short pocket length club similar to an English truncheon.

That said, almost any striking weapon could potentially be articulated into a 12020 charge. A hardwood walking stick, because it's intended purpose is for walking, would be perfectly legal and would potentially be a good improvised weapon in a pinch... assuming that some zealous LEO or ADA doesn't try to pursue a charge for 245 if you have to use it.

serrogate
10-07-2009, 11:13 AM
thanks ke6guj ok well i guess i wont walk around with a mace then, i guess a machete will get the point across lol. I'll just carry the knife carry laws on me if a LEO decides to be ignorant (ignorant 1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned) for those thinking im being mean to LEOs

serrogate
10-07-2009, 11:23 AM
I figured it out! i'll just put a bullet button on my "evil" bat and its all good. Thanks for that good ol search button

ke6guj
10-07-2009, 11:40 AM
thanks ke6guj ok well i guess i wont walk around with a mace then, i guess a machete will get the point across lol. I'll just carry the knife carry laws on me if a LEO decides to be ignorant (ignorant 1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned) for those thinking im being mean to LEOs

People v. Grubb and People v. Fannin are the pertinant case law on "billy"s that you should read to see how your mace would fall under it.

Regarding the machete, I'd suggest reading Jim March's knife law summary, http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html . Statewise, that machette would be legal if carried unconcealed. However, some cities do have more restrictive laws regarding blad length, so you do need to read up on that.

SteveH
10-07-2009, 11:46 AM
those weapons listed are concealable bludgeoning weapons i dont think they apply to a larger club weapon

The manner in which it is used defines the tool. A cane, flashlight, baseball bat, fish billy, tire knocker, crow bar, rebar, stick, board, ect carried for protection is a billyclub. The manner in which it is used defines the tool.

The Director
10-07-2009, 11:58 AM
Here you go. Fixed you right up and I guarantee you won't cause a bit of attention walking down the street with this bad boy. Nope, no one will even notice.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.silvermane.com/images/KE-2608.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.silvermane.com/weapons_mace-black-medieval.html&h=267&w=420&sz=6&tbnid=8n6RH5IzA6Pz8M:&tbnh=79&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmedieval%2Bmaces&hl=en&usg=__iQKL9XY3W-ymiPgYLxORO4W36bo=&ei=pPLMSuOIDoGGNIeeyDo&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image

adamsreeftank
10-07-2009, 12:00 PM
thanks ke6guj ok well i guess i wont walk around with a mace then, i guess a machete will get the point across lol. I'll just carry the knife carry laws on me if a LEO decides to be ignorant (ignorant 1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned) for those thinking im being mean to LEOs

If you are going to carry a machete or any fixed blade knife, make sure there is no way it can be considered condealed. If you have it strapped to your hip and you wear a jacket over it, you could likely get prosecuted for a felony.

Personally, I think carrying a large exposed knife is going to get you a lot of unwelcome attention. I know lots of people who use canes or walking sticks that might potentially be used for defense if the need ever came up.

oaklander
10-07-2009, 12:46 PM
I am familiar with this scenario, as it has happened to me before. The problem with carrying an obvious weapon is that (1) it might be illegal, and (2) you are going to attract MORE attention that you desire.

As mentioned by others, a real walking cane is a decent idea. But even with that, I could foresee a scenario in which you might have to prove to the court that you really require a cane, and weren't just using it as a club.

I might suggest the following:

1) a folding pocket knife.
2) pepper spray
3) a bright small flashlight

The other thing is to ramp up your situational awareness. You should look everyone you pass on the street right in the eyes, and greet them in a friendly manner. You should not cross the street to avoid people, since that telegraphs fear. You may wish to avoid walking around at night, depending on your area.

EDIT: the other problem with a cane is that a sophisticated criminal is going to try and take it from you, as the very first thing they do. Hence my suggestion that you use concealed weapons (knife, pepper spray, flashlight).

Hello Im new to the forums and ive read this site for a while but never joined but i have to ask a question now. A few nights ago My wife and I were walking around the neighborhood and there was a suspicious person that came within 10 feet of us while walking that had no reason to and then walked the other way, well this scaired my wife some and now she wants some more protection than just my 300 pound body lol. Since i cant carry my gun through the neighorhood and i dont wanna walk around with a machete because it might scare the neighbors i was thinking about a medieval mace not pepperspary because i want something a little more visually threatening than a baseball bat. The question is, is this legal? i cant find any laws on it and I am asking for your help. Oh and i have called the police department and they dont know as funny as it sounds, because i dont take "i think so" and "maybe" as answers. Thank you

Mikeb
10-07-2009, 12:50 PM
I think I have said this before, but one more time can't hurt. Our (my) cities are dangerous. There are dangerous vermin at every turn. Kids, junkies, OG's, and yet we are allowed no means of defense when we have to leave our homes for food , work, social activities. I started a thread about carrying a spear, because I saw nothing in the PC about spears. Seems like the last word was you can't carry anything for self defense with out being in violation of 12020.
Is it time for some pro self defense action? Till then I guess we should all carry a cane and limp a bit if you see LEO,
take care
Mike

oaklander
10-07-2009, 12:51 PM
East Oakland in tha house!

I think I have said this before, but one more time can't hurt. Our (my) cities are dangerous. There are dangerous vermin at every turn. Kids, junkies, OG's, and yet we are allowed no means of defense when we have to leave our homes for food , work, social activities. I started a thread about carrying a spear, because I saw nothing in the PC about spears. Seems like the last word was you can't carry anything for self defense with out being in violation of 12020.
Is it time for some pro self defense action? Till then I guess we should all carry a cane and limp a bit if you see LEO,
take care
Mike

BigDogatPlay
10-07-2009, 12:54 PM
As to carrying a walking stick, I'd simply show the court the scars on my knees and x-rays showing the screws and plate inside.

:D

Decoligny
10-07-2009, 1:22 PM
I am familiar with this scenario, as it has happened to me before. The problem with carrying an obvious weapon is that (1) it might be illegal, and (2) you are going to attract MORE attention that you desire.

As mentioned by others, a real walking cane is a decent idea. But even with that, I could foresee a scenario in which you might have to prove to the court that you really require a cane, and weren't just using it as a club.

I might suggest the following:

1) a folding pocket knife.
2) pepper spray
3) a bright small flashlight

The other thing is to ramp up your situational awareness. You should look everyone you pass on the street right in the eyes, and greet them in a friendly manner. You should not cross the street to avoid people, since that telegraphs fear. You may wish to avoid walking around at night, depending on your area.

EDIT: the other problem with a cane is that a sophisticated criminal is going to try and take it from you, as the very first thing they do. Hence my suggestion that you use concealed weapons (knife, pepper spray, flashlight).

Another name for a cane is a walking stick. You do not need to prove an injury in order to carry something that helps you maintain balance on uneven terrain. A good walking stick can also be something as simple as a fashion accessory with a decorative bird carving.

http://www.canemasters.com/images/phh-gm-thmb.jpg

Using the same thinking, if I carry a quart sized metal water flask (see below) full of water, and I use that as an improvised weapon, I would then have to prove to the court that I was thirsty.

http://media.rei.com/media/bb/ed462641-0322-4aa0-a917-8e538f3325e4.jpg

kf6tac
10-07-2009, 1:40 PM
Strictly speaking you don't have to prove anything, as you are innocent until proven guilty. However, if you end up using a walking stick as a weapon, you can bet that the DA who winds up prosecuting you will insinuate that any absence of chronic medical condition necessitating the use of a walking stick is proof that your primary purpose in carrying the walking stick was to use it as a weapon, so it never hurts to have some proof of injury up your sleeve. It also probably wouldn't hurt to make sure you aren't leaving a trail of comments on the internet in which you state or even suggest that your primary purpose for carrying a walking stick is anything other than to facilitate your walking.

Mikeb
10-07-2009, 1:57 PM
Strictly speaking you don't have to prove anything, as you are innocent until proven guilty. However, if you end up using a walking stick as a weapon, you can bet that the DA who winds up prosecuting you will insinuate that any absence of chronic medical condition necessitating the use of a walking stick is proof that your primary purpose in carrying the walking stick was to use it as a weapon, so it never hurts to have some proof of injury up your sleeve. It also probably wouldn't hurt to make sure you aren't leaving a trail of comments on the internet in which you state or even suggest that your primary purpose for carrying a walking stick is anything other than to facilitate your walking.

OK I want a law that says as a free person you can carry anything you want for comfort on your travels. But criminal penalties may be brought if you use it for criminal activities. IE you can carry a cave man club for protection. If you start whacking your neighbor or mugging lil' ol' ladies, you are in trouble. If you find it necessary to use for self defense, no problem.
I can't see that a disarmed populace is a benefit to anyone but predators .
I still want a spear, err long pointy walking stick.
take care
Mike

serrogate
10-07-2009, 2:21 PM
so a spear is ok? hehehe http://www.swordsswords.com/productimages/s/AvP_Predator_Retractable_Spear.jpg

oaklander
10-07-2009, 2:53 PM
What I am saying is that a smart prosecutor will try to say that your "walking stick for uneven terrain" was used as a billy club. This is especially true if you are just walking around your flat neighborhood. It's just like carrying a baseball bat in your car. Even though it's a legal item, you had better ACTUALLY play baseball if you ever have to use it on someone's head. The same with a walking stick. If you have an actual legitimate purpose for it, it is easier to defend in court.

Another name for a cane is a walking stick. You do not need to prove an injury in order to carry something that helps you maintain balance on uneven terrain. A good walking stick can also be something as simple as a fashion accessory with a decorative bird carving.

A quart flask does not bear a striking resemblance to a prohibited item. That's the point that I am getting at.

Using the same thinking, if I carry a quart sized metal water flask (see below) full of water, and I use that as an improvised weapon, I would then have to prove to the court that I was thirsty.

Here's one for you. If you are an electrician, or are doing electrical work on your house, this is fine to have. If you just decided to just carry it around, and you end up using it on someone - the fact that it's an pigtail extension cord isn't going to prevent the DA from trying to charge you with possession of a sap.

http://www.smartplug.com/images/products/LegacyPigtailA30033_Large.jpg

bodger
10-07-2009, 3:12 PM
I carry this unconcealed when I walk my dogs early in the morning and late at night.

I'm a general contractor and master carpenter. I need this with me at all times right next to my Leatherman tool.
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt10/dingoff/axe.jpg

swhatb
10-07-2009, 3:34 PM
Where do you get one and take a class like that :confused:

A full sized baseball bat, if carried solely for the purpose of defending yourself, it considered a "Billy" and people have been prosecuted for carrying a baseball bat beside the drivers seat in their car.

I highly suggest a sturdy walking stick, or a self-defense cane. While out on your walks it is simply a tool to help you to keep your balance, and the help you keep from turning your ankle.

If needed this tool can be used effectively to defend yourself from an attacking dog, or an attacking person.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090323/cane-fu/images/4e0fc2a8-7b56-4ed7-a806-465126e04e46.jpg

serrogate
10-07-2009, 4:31 PM
wow pretty much everything you carry with you could be considered a weapon in one way or another. So the only best thing to do is carry a unconcealed combat knife on my hip? remember im trying to detour people from being aggressive with me, which means a pocket knife is not going to do it since its not visable. Any other suggestions?

5hundo
10-07-2009, 4:41 PM
wow pretty much everything you carry with you could be considered a weapon in one way or another. So the only best thing to do is carry a unconcealed combat knife on my hip? remember im trying to detour people from being aggressive with me, which means a pocket knife is not going to do it since its not visable. Any other suggestions?

Where are you located? Even that might be prohibited...

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ca.txt (knife laws)


Los Angeles Municipal Code

SEC. 55.10. CARRY KNIVES OR DAGGERS IN PLAIN VIEW PROHIBITED.
(Added by Ord. No. 162,995, Eff. 1/7/88.)

Turo
10-07-2009, 4:42 PM
wow pretty much everything you carry with you could be considered a weapon in one way or another. So the only best thing to do is carry a unconcealed combat knife on my hip? remember im trying to detour people from being aggressive with me, which means a pocket knife is not going to do it since its not visable. Any other suggestions?

Carry a nice long bowie knife in a sheath on your hip. nothing illegal about it, you will probably get some looks from crazy left-wingers, and it's perfect to use in defense of your life or others. Triple whammy.

I carry a fixed blade on my belt every time I go out. Lol people at costco usually look at me funny, but it's fine with me :43:

Mikeb
10-07-2009, 5:04 PM
Until our rulers decide they can somehow benefit from allowing the peasants to go about defending themselves nothing will change. We're not that far removed from Britain are we.
Mike

oaklander
10-07-2009, 6:06 PM
I don't think that open carrying a weapon will deter people from being violent with you. It will get you more attention, and that is what you do not want.

It will definitely get the attention of law enforcement.

The key to urban safety is situational awareness, and not looking like a victim, and avoiding "dangerous" areas and dangerous times. As I mentioned, there are perfectly legal concealed weapons that are somewhat effective.

wow pretty much everything you carry with you could be considered a weapon in one way or another. So the only best thing to do is carry a unconcealed combat knife on my hip? remember im trying to detour people from being aggressive with me, which means a pocket knife is not going to do it since its not visable. Any other suggestions?

gunsandrockets
10-07-2009, 7:20 PM
12020 is probably the section that would cover a mace.



12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

What the heck is a "blackjack"?...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_club

... hmm. Seems pretty different from a medieval mace or war hammer...

http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-537-16th-century-german-mace.aspx

http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-550-english-war-hammer.aspx

Are the courts really so crazy as to define any blunt striking weapon as an illegal "billy"?

cal_gunner
10-07-2009, 7:40 PM
You could always get a Taser

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0710/taser_1031.jpg

El Gato
10-07-2009, 7:48 PM
wow pretty much everything you carry with you could be considered a weapon in one way or another. So the only best thing to do is carry a unconcealed combat knife on my hip? remember im trying to detour people from being aggressive with me, which means a pocket knife is not going to do it since its not visable. Any other suggestions?

Almost anything IS a weapon... mindset people...

If I see someone walking down the street with an obvious weapon...they're gettin' stopped...period... I don't necessarily like the idea but that's kinda the way it is...
is a walking stick or a sheathed knife (I work in kern and there are no local ord. for blade length) is no problem... a club is...and if it is a per se weapon under 12020 we deal with it... if it is an INTENT weapon... as in "gee sir that's a pretty screwdriver you have in your pocket...what's it for? Why to gig my enemies officer"... then it's a 12020 if it's hidden... but a walking stick? Gee sir why are you carrying a walking stick... "cause it helps with my balance sir"... no problemo...
carrying a "club" of any sort is a per se weapon... I've got "tire knockers" in my teaching kit we obtained from folks who were carrying them for weapons...

I have a bat in my property room... it's wrapped with a chain and the words "beat a N****2000" written on it.... that's a club for sure you betcha...

another with a ... no joke... scythe bolted to the end...asked arrestee after miranda what it was for... "to f**K up my enemies sir"... at least he was respectful...:D

we see lots of bats... what don't get confiscated.. no intent felony...

Zachs300zx
10-07-2009, 8:19 PM
Wow, It really is sad that you basically need a law degree in California to protect yourself. My next house will be in Nevada!

mmartin
10-07-2009, 10:33 PM
There are dangerous vermin at every turn. Kids, junkies, OG's, and yet we are allowed no means of defense when we have to leave our homes for food , work, social activities. I started a thread about carrying a spear, because I saw nothing in the PC about spears. Seems like the last word was you can't carry anything for self defense with out being in violation of 12020.

how did we get this screwed?:mad:
... not permited to protect ourselves in public. the mind boggles.
I am so SO moving.
Megan

Sunshine
10-08-2009, 1:38 AM
Just strap this to you leg (http://www.coldsteel.com/sanmaigurkha.html) and you're ready for a night out on the town.

Dr. Peter Venkman
10-08-2009, 2:10 AM
No, Yes, No.

TRICKSTER
10-08-2009, 4:19 AM
Get a large dog. I legally carry a gun, but my crime deterrent is my Great Dane.

SKSer
10-08-2009, 4:39 AM
A full sized baseball bat, if carried solely for the purpose of defending yourself, it considered a "Billy" and people have been prosecuted for carrying a baseball bat beside the drivers seat in their car.

I highly suggest a sturdy walking stick, or a self-defense cane. While out on your walks it is simply a tool to help you to keep your balance, and the help you keep from turning your ankle.

If needed this tool can be used effectively to defend yourself from an attacking dog, or an attacking person.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090323/cane-fu/images/4e0fc2a8-7b56-4ed7-a806-465126e04e46.jpg


HA HA, this picture is soooo funny, look at all the guys in the backround.

Decoligny
10-08-2009, 7:04 AM
Carry a nice long bowie knife in a sheath on your hip. nothing illegal about it, you will probably get some looks from crazy left-wingers, and it's perfect to use in defense of your life or others. Triple whammy.

I carry a fixed blade on my belt every time I go out. Lol people at costco usually look at me funny, but it's fine with me :43:

That all depends upon where in California you are located. Unlike gun laws where the State has preemption, knife laws are pretty much unlimited in how strict the localities can make them.

In Los Angeles County, you cannot openly carry any knife with a blade of 3 inches or longer.

Each and every city can make its own knife laws.

Make sure you know the laws in the area you will be carrying a knife.

Decoligny
10-08-2009, 7:14 AM
What the heck is a "blackjack"?...



A BlackJack is a leather weapon that has a bunch of lead shot sewn into one end. It is usually seen in old movies. A quick swing to the back of the head and the unsuspecting victim is off to sleepyville to dream sweet dreams and if he wakes up, it will be with a very very bad headache.

http://www.thecollectorsedge.com/images/TH_CE-BJL.jpg

http://http://southsummit.com/images/products/bjl.jpg

serrogate
10-08-2009, 7:23 AM
Where are you located? Even that might be prohibited...

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ca.txt (knife laws)

Riverside County which i think its perfectly legal

serrogate
10-08-2009, 7:28 AM
Get a large dog. I legally carry a gun, but my crime deterrent is my Great Dane.

My wife and i arent ready for one yet

serrogate
10-08-2009, 7:40 AM
I don't think that open carrying a weapon will deter people from being violent with you. It will get you more attention, and that is what you do not want.

It will definitely get the attention of law enforcement.

The key to urban safety is situational awareness, and not looking like a victim, and avoiding "dangerous" areas and dangerous times. As I mentioned, there are perfectly legal concealed weapons that are somewhat effective.

Im not racist what so ever but im mexican and my wife is black and the guy following us was a black guy in the shadows with a hoodie I do want a visable weapon to deter these kind of people. Also its only going to be worn when i walk so ive decided on my machete

this is what it looks like
http://www.swordsswords.com/images/view.aspx?productId=2484

oaklander
10-08-2009, 7:49 AM
A visible weapon is just going to attract unwanted attention, and might be illegal, depending on where you live.

If you are going to carry something visible, carry a cane, as others have suggested. Although I have my reservations, it is probably the most defensible item, should you have to use it.

Im not racist what so ever but im mexican and my wife is black and the guy following us was a black guy in the shadows with a hoodie I do want a visable weapon to deter these kind of people. Also its only going to be worn when i walk so ive decided on my machete

this is what it looks like
http://www.swordsswords.com/images/view.aspx?productId=2484

wash
10-08-2009, 8:16 AM
http://www.screenhead.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/machete.jpg

bombadillo
10-08-2009, 8:17 AM
I just carry a good sized but legal pocket knife at all times and a machete in my truck for doing yard work. I go camping quite a bit and clearing brush is honestly important for me doing a lot with it. I use it constantly for making fires, clearing brush, trimming trees, or what have you. Its always sharp and ready to rock and roll too. I also keep clippings and pieces of wood in the back of my truck for just such an occasion as well just in case anyone doubts the validity of it.

bodger
10-08-2009, 8:22 AM
Almost anything IS a weapon... mindset people...

If I see someone walking down the street with an obvious weapon...they're gettin' stopped...period... I don't necessarily like the idea but that's kinda the way it is...


Does that include the big Mag Lite flashlights?

I occasionally carry one at night whilst walking my dogs. It's not just for human predators either. We've had some fairly serious dog attacks in the area from idiots who think their off-leash pit bulls are not a threat to anyone and they find out they are.

Blademan21
10-08-2009, 8:24 AM
Like other have said--Carry a cane and learn how to use it. Carrying a mace is asking for legal troubles should you ever use it. You can not afford the legal fees in this sue happy state. Yea you can get sued for anything, but chances are your monetary lose will be greatly reduced if a cane was used for SD instead of a mace. The mace was designed for what, to split a head wide open. A cane is made to help one walk balanced. Think smart,not macho.

bodger
10-08-2009, 8:31 AM
The smartest thing would be to have a CCW and carry something a lot more reliable for self defense than a cane.

But of course, that would mean we would have to have legislators who have some good sense. And a majority voter population devoid of knee-jerk anti gun sentiments.

Kestryll
10-08-2009, 8:59 AM
Go with the cane, a good one designed for self defense like the ones from Cane Masters (http://www.canemasters.com/).

I have one of these types of canes and I've never been looked at twice for it, I've even taken it airplanes without a single question from the Airport Police, DHS or anyone.

Yes, I have needed it at times when I've blown out an ankle but that was years ago. No one has ever asked me to prove a need.

Canemasters even sells videos showing how to use the cane for self defense and others with exercise routines based on using the cane.

Decoligny
10-08-2009, 9:13 AM
HA HA, this picture is soooo funny, look at all the guys in the backround.

You got a problem with older people? Like to laugh at what you will someday become?

I happen to carry a cane because I am a 50 year old Disabled American Veteran, retired from the Air Force. I train with it in order to be able to defend myself with it if necessary. I look not to different than some of the guys in the background. These people are being proactive and learning to defend THEMSELVES. They are not waiting to become victims. They might not look like a bunch of MMA Cage Fighters training to fight in the octagon, but they are still training to fight for their lives.

bombadillo
10-08-2009, 9:16 AM
I don't know that it was really supposed to be a knock on "older" people because 50 is not that old to me. I think he was looking at the guy with the ol high rider socks and shorts and the guy on the right looking confused with his cane the wrong way. Just not the best of pics.

Mac Attack
10-08-2009, 9:25 AM
If you are willing to carry a mace how about one of those 5 D-cell maglites?

wash
10-08-2009, 9:28 AM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/952584349_dfe9c3a0fd_o.jpg

pullnshoot25
10-08-2009, 9:46 AM
Carry a sjambok. Cheap and effective. .

mmartin
10-08-2009, 10:17 AM
my ex used to carry the bottom half of a 2-piece pool cue when he ran... small problem with large dogs on his route.
I'm guessing you could carry a 2-piece pool cue in CA... provided there's a billiard hall in the direction you're walking. they make some nice carry bags that could go over your shoulder...
megan

rolo
10-08-2009, 10:24 AM
Walk with a Russian kapela or a Polish Ciupaga. It's what the tactical hiking sticks want to be but 1000 years old!

GuyW
10-08-2009, 10:28 AM
my ex used to carry the bottom half of a 2-piece pool cue when he ran... small problem with large dogs on his route.
I'm guessing you could carry a 2-piece pool cue in CA...

Actually, I was told by a CoP that INTENT to use a billy against ANIMALS was legal, just not legal to intend use against humans.
.

Brianguy
10-08-2009, 10:48 AM
I am familiar with this scenario, as it has happened to me before. The problem with carrying an obvious weapon is that (1) it might be illegal, and (2) you are going to attract MORE attention that you desire.

As mentioned by others, a real walking cane is a decent idea. But even with that, I could foresee a scenario in which you might have to prove to the court that you really require a cane, and weren't just using it as a club.

I might suggest the following:

1) a folding pocket knife.
2) pepper spray
3) a bright small flashlight

The other thing is to ramp up your situational awareness. You should look everyone you pass on the street right in the eyes, and greet them in a friendly manner. You should not cross the street to avoid people, since that telegraphs fear. You may wish to avoid walking around at night, depending on your area.

EDIT: the other problem with a cane is that a sophisticated criminal is going to try and take it from you, as the very first thing they do. Hence my suggestion that you use concealed weapons (knife, pepper spray, flashlight).

Good list. A taser in a belt holster is a good idea and easily concealable. There's no CA regulation on tasers so check your local laws (city & county). The laser on the taser would probably put the fear of jesus into anyone thinking about messing with you. Not sure if Taser Inc. still has this policy but if you use your taser to incapacitate an attacker and leave it at the scene while making a run for it; they replace your taser for free if you submit a police report.
http://www.taser.com/products/consumers/Pages/C2.aspx

Eargasm
10-08-2009, 11:36 AM
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses... any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade,

^ When did these become illegal? They used to sell them in Army Surplus stores when I was younger.

ke6guj
10-08-2009, 11:45 AM
^ When did these become illegal? They used to sell them in Army Surplus stores when I was younger.

Not sure, but there is an exemption for some of them.

12020(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:

(15) Any plastic toy handgrenade, or any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade that is a relic, curio, memorabilia, or display item, that is filled with a permanent inert substance or that is otherwise permanently altered in a manner that prevents ready modification for use as a grenade.

Ross
10-08-2009, 2:20 PM
http://www.rmjtactical.com/

with holster


:D

joelberg
10-08-2009, 4:22 PM
How about a sword cane? What's the legality on that?

joelberg
10-08-2009, 4:25 PM
Walk with a Russian kapela or a Polish Ciupaga. It's what the tactical hiking sticks want to be but 1000 years old!

That's a great idea:

http://4imgs.com/306/x/700130_FULL.jpg :D

Super Spy
10-08-2009, 4:32 PM
Carry a baseball bat, and have a glove, ball, and hat in a small backpack. You like to go to the park and hit a few balls at night.....what's wrong with that?

GrizzlyGuy
10-08-2009, 4:39 PM
^ When did these become illegal? They used to sell them in Army Surplus stores when I was younger.

Don't sweat it too much if you happen to have one tucked away, per 12020 the first offense is only an infraction:

"However, a first offense involving any metal military practice
handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade shall be punishable only as
an infraction unless the offender is an active participant in a
criminal street gang as defined in the Street Terrorism and
Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11 (commencing with Section
186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1)."

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12020.html

ke6guj
10-08-2009, 4:50 PM
How about a sword cane? What's the legality on that?



12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

Brianguy
10-08-2009, 4:50 PM
carry a brass "paper weight" that has convenient finger holes(for rapid paper floating away response).

ke6guj
10-08-2009, 4:57 PM
carry a brass "paper weight" that has convenient finger holes(for rapid paper floating away response).and then you get popped for "metal knuckles"

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

(c)(7) As used in this section, "metal knuckles" means any device or instrument made wholly or partially of metal which is worn for purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and which either protects the wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of projections or studs which would contact the individual receiving a blow.

Sheepdog1968
10-08-2009, 6:07 PM
Too many posts to read on my smart phone. I'd lean towards large flashlight Mag light. Also pepper spray is good. You've always wanted a Rottie haven't you?

Brianguy
10-08-2009, 6:28 PM
and then you get popped for "metal knuckles"
how about a plastic paper weight:D

serrogate
10-08-2009, 7:30 PM
how about a plastic paper weight:D

i like that

Southwest Chuck
10-08-2009, 7:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianguy View Post
carry a brass "paper weight" that has convenient finger holes(for rapid paper floating away response).
and then you get popped for "metal knuckles"

Quote:
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, ,any metal knuckles any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

(c)(7) As used in this section, "metal knuckles" means any device or instrument made wholly or partially of metal which is worn for purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and which either protects the wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of projections or studs which would contact the individual receiving a blow.

Question:

Say "hypothetically", Someone had a set of real brass knuckles that they got from their great uncle who was a U.S. Marshall in Little Rock Arkansas in the 50's and 60's. Say he "used" these things and they even had filed notches in the knuckle surfaces so they could do a little more damage. For more of a hypothetical twist, say they are considered an heirloom and have some historical significance in that this hypothetical "Great Uncle" can be seen in archival footage enforcing the integration of Little Rock High School.

So, are there any exceptions that would allow one to own them? Would these be considered a curio since they are over 50 years old? Hypothetically, of course. If so, how would one document them to legitimize their ownership?

Blademan21
10-08-2009, 8:30 PM
Carry a sjambok. Cheap and effective. .



Not legal in California. Considered a whip.

GoodEyeSniper
10-08-2009, 8:31 PM
My first choice would be a large mag light. Especially if your walks are anywhere near sunup/sundown, or night obviously. You can find holsters for them, and such, too.

The hardwood cane is a good choice, but I just couldn't do it, unless I was hiking or something and had a good walking stick, otherwise it would just seem tacky FOR ME, a young, slim, healthy guy...

A big bowie/machete might just cause more trouble than anything. I doubt it would actually get any "bad guys" on your case, but it would probably get a lot of neutral guys to act like D-bags. I have contemplated a decent sized knife to wear around like that, but I just like smaller knives. Usually with a blade slightly shorter than the handle. And those just don't look too menacing on your belt.

In regards to folders, Cold Steel makes a VERY menacing looking blade called the Vaquero that you can get with a 6+ inch blade, or smaller if you prefer. Sure, it's not a visual threat if it's clipped inside your pocket, but if you flashed that thing out at a thug he'd definitely think twice.

http://www.teraasekeskus.com/images/extra/ColdSteelVaquero2.jpg

And remember, Ca STATE law says you can conceal any folder, no matter how big, so this is legal under state law. however your local laws may vary.

bombadillo
10-08-2009, 8:42 PM
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/csstoreonline_2070_10475852

What about the 6" ti-lite from cold steel. Much quicker on the draw as they hook on a pocket and open as you take them out. They're really inexpensive and look pretty mean if you ask me!

serrogate
10-08-2009, 9:19 PM
mostly the thing is to carry a machete or big knife for display to not use it than to carry a small knife and end up having to use it and explain that to LEOs. This is the way im thinking, plus i really dont wanna hack off arms. i think i would beat down with the back side of it more than anything for defense.
http://www.weaponcollect.com/images/rambo%204%20look.jpg

serrogate
10-08-2009, 9:29 PM
im pretty sure but this is legal right?
http://www.knifeworks.com/images/products/detail/2260.1.jpg

serrogate
10-08-2009, 9:33 PM
i was wondering if this was legal too if it was exposed? reason being is they call it a butterfly knife but its a butterfly sword and they ship to CA which is interesting but the dimensions are Overall Length (Open): 37 3/4"
Blade: 17 1/2"
http://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/item/803/847/41/f1SAaWeBCOArY2r.jpg

oaklander
10-08-2009, 9:36 PM
Get the cane.

ke6guj
10-08-2009, 9:37 PM
i was wondering if this was legal too if it was exposed? reason being is they call it a butterfly knife but its a butterfly sword and they ship to CA which is interesting but the dimensions are Overall Length (Open): 37 3/4"
Blade: 17 1/2"


Pretty sure that is considered a switchblade knife.

653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife, and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.

when is something not a knife anymore and considered a sword? I dunno, but are you willing to defend that charge?

oaklander
10-08-2009, 9:38 PM
No. Brass knuckles.

im pretty sure but this is legal right?
http://www.knifeworks.com/images/products/detail/2260.1.jpg

derwiking
10-08-2009, 11:39 PM
A folding knife is your best bet for legal(again as others has precautioned, check the knife ordances/laws for your locality) and effective self defense short of a CCW. Don't go the blunt weapon route. As crazy as it is, there is more case law and written law AGAINST the use of blunt weapons rather than edged weapons and they usually involve felonies. Folding knives while not concealed are relatively hard to notice if you aren't on high ready/fully aware of your surroundings. Keep in mind, force meets force with greater force. You are generally more safe when any potential aggressors do not visualize you as a threat. A few advantageous seconds gained from trouncing an unsuspecting un-savory character and potentially defusing any situation or conflict could be the difference between you and your loved one's safety.

TRICKSTER
10-08-2009, 11:48 PM
Golf club - putter. Just keep a golf ball in your pocket.

Brianguy
10-08-2009, 11:53 PM
take some Krav Maga classes :D

leitung
10-09-2009, 12:00 AM
Tasers are a good option, as a security guard, I can tell you that when I openly carry my bright yellow taser, it scares people.. I carry a .45, baton, and pepper spray too.. and I can tell you.. people are more afraid of the taser.

Another option, see if you can get a CCW, it may not be as hard as you think.

pullnshoot25
10-09-2009, 7:00 AM
Whips aren't banned...

Uriah02
10-09-2009, 7:03 AM
Tasers are a good option, as a security guard, I can tell you that when I openly carry my bright yellow taser, it scares people.. I carry a .45, baton, and pepper spray too.. and I can tell you.. people are more afraid of the taser.

Another option, see if you can get a CCW, it may not be as hard as you think.

Don't Taze me man!

serrogate
10-09-2009, 7:07 AM
straight razors as a folding knife are fine right?
http://www.trueswords.com/images/prod/TS-SR31.jpg

serrogate
10-09-2009, 7:09 AM
Whips aren't banned...

even if they arent i prolly wouldnt use one cause i think the assulter would be laughing his *** off by me whipping the crap outta myself trying to defend myself.

wash
10-09-2009, 7:16 AM
The problem with a knife is that to use it, you pretty much have to be within arms length of your attacker.

I've got a few 10"+ blades that I could wear on my hip but in an urban area people aren't used to that.

If you get asked about your cane, you just twisted your ankle the other day...

For me, when I'm alone but not expecting trouble, 90% of the time I've got my pocket knife. When I'm not alone, I usually still carry only the knife but I try to be a bit more vigilant. When I'm expecting trouble I'll first try to avoid the situation. If I knew I couldn't avoid it and I would be in similar situations frequently, I would get a cane.

Decoligny
10-09-2009, 7:34 AM
The problem with a knife is that to use it, you pretty much have to be within arms length of your attacker.

I've got a few 10"+ blades that I could wear on my hip but in an urban area people aren't used to that.

If you get asked about your cane, you just twisted your ankle the other day...

For me, when I'm alone but not expecting trouble, 90% of the time I've got my pocket knife. When I'm not alone, I usually still carry only the knife but I try to be a bit more vigilant. When I'm expecting trouble I'll first try to avoid the situation. If I knew I couldn't avoid it and I would be in similar situations frequently, I would get a cane.

You should always be expecting trouble. Not the "paranoid" kind of expectation, but the "it could happen" kind of expectation. One time I had a nutjob run across 3 lanes of traffic to try to fight me while I was at a light on my motorcycle, my knife made him think twice. Another time I turned a corner in my neighborhood and a neighbors dog was growling at me, hackles up, teeth bared, not backing down to my yelling at him. I had my gun and a wrench. I threw the wrench while drawing my gun. Dog didn't like the wrench hitting it's ribs and ran off. Trouble happens in the most improbable places at the most unexpected times. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

I have a folder in a belt sheath at all times when I am dressed. It has been pulled out in self defense situations. When out walking in my own neighborhood, I carry LOC. Happens to be legal in rural Kern County. I also carry my cane, and my knife.

If I am in an area where I can't carry my gun, I have my knife and my cane. If I am in an area where I can't carry my knife (Federal Court Building this Monday and Tuesday) I carry my cane. It has the hook end carved into a nice bird beak design, that is very pretty. It would also be very effective in applying a lot of pressure to a very small point on a human body. Very painful when applied to the proper points.

Blademan21
10-09-2009, 7:36 AM
Whips aren't banned...



Prosecutors will most likely treat them as a slungshot. And prosecute for PC 245. Are you willing to test the water? What about your beloved OC?

wash
10-09-2009, 7:56 AM
That's why I carry a knife when I'm not expecting trouble.

It comes in handy as a tool and if I have to use it for self defense, it's there.

Some times when I'm not carrying my pocket knife I feel a little bit naked.

In a situation where I thought it was likely that I would have to use my knife, not having a gun would make me feel naked.

pullnshoot25
10-09-2009, 8:20 AM
Prosecutors will most likely treat them as a slungshot. And prosecute for PC 245. Are you willing to test the water? What about your beloved OC?

Slungshots are differentially weighted. Sjamboks are not. That is the difference.

Whips are not named in the penal code.

I'm fairly willing to test the waters. I almost got a bullwhip to do whipcracking at UCSD but the cost was kinda "meh" and I kinda want to weave/roll my own. No rules against it.

You know, I keep forgetting to mention it... carry a friggin tomahawk. Cold Steel makes a good one for 25-30 bucks and it is pretty much legally exempted in the penal code. Great deterrent as well.

So you have...

-Folding sword
-Normal knife
-Sjambok
-Tomahawk
-Staff
-Cane
-Snake whip
-UOC

Keep 'em coming.

Mikeb
10-09-2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah OK I have a pocket knife, but that is for sharpening pencils. A knife must be razor sharp to do a good job sharpening pencils.
The point I tried to make is that the laws in CA prohibit people from preparing for self defense. 100 years ago it was still the wild west. And I bet the streets of east Oakland, today, would have even Wild Bill shaking in his boots. Especially if he didn't have his shotgun under his coat. We talk endlessly about when zombies kick in the front door whether 000 buck or slugs is the best response. But when you step out on to the street all you can have is a white flag, and only if it's not connected to a stick. When you do walk to the corner for a can of beans, if a punk grabs your groceries and you poke him with a ball point pen, you're up for assault with a dirk. I want a law that says I can wear a suit of armor and carry a broadsword and a battle ax , or if it's hot maybe just a loincloth and a spear. Why can't people possess the means for self defense.
burns my cookies
Mike

bplvr
10-09-2009, 11:46 AM
Slungshots are differentially weighted. Sjamboks are not. That is the difference.

Whips are not named in the penal code.

I'm fairly willing to test the waters. I almost got a bullwhip to do whipcracking at UCSD but the cost was kinda "meh" and I kinda want to weave/roll my own. No rules against it.

You know, I keep forgetting to mention it... carry a friggin tomahawk. Cold Steel makes a good one for 25-30 bucks and it is pretty much legally exempted in the penal code. Great deterrent as well.

So you have...

-Folding sword
-Normal knife
-Sjambok
-Tomahawk
-Staff
-Cane
-Snake whip
-UOC

Keep 'em coming.
==

Another good sig line on here about the bullwhip at UCSD.........
.
.

GuyW
10-09-2009, 11:51 AM
I want a law that says I can wear a suit of armor and carry a broadsword and a battle ax , or if it's hot maybe just a loincloth and a spear. Why can't people possess the means for self defense.


Dunno Oakland laws, but nothing in CA law prohibits swords....

...is it time for OC swords??
.

mmartin
10-09-2009, 12:37 PM
Why can't people possess the means for self defense.
burns my cookies

^^^ this right here.
megan

mmartin
10-09-2009, 12:41 PM
Dunno Oakland laws, but nothing in CA law prohibits swords....

really? a friend of mine was charged with carrying a lethal weapon... a sword. she's a bellydancer, uses it to balance on her head when she dances.

ok she wasn't charged for dancing with it, but it was in her car, in her belly dance kit, and she got charged. in CA, but not in oakland.
megan

Mikeb
10-09-2009, 12:50 PM
Dunno Oakland laws, but nothing in CA law prohibits swords....

...is it time for OC swords??
.

I looked and found nothing about spears,but I've been assured by the folk here that it would be considered a dirk. The fact is any sort of poking thing can be a dirk, ie screwdriver, ballpoint pen, probably a sharp stick. I have a friend right now up on sword charges, but that' another story, I chose not to tell here. What I have heard here is that anything that is carried for self defense is a violation of PC 12020. If asked why you had a cane and you answer for self defense, now it's a billy club.
The laws have to change and the 1st natural law (self defense) has to be restored to the people.
Everyone is upset today that Obama got a 1.4 million dollar peace prize. That's nothing a scumb bag in Oakland got a 1.2 million dollar prize for robbing a church.
take care
Mike

wash
10-09-2009, 12:57 PM
"Carrying a lethal weapon"?

What's the code number for that?

I've got a sword in my truck right now...

It's for chopping wood.

GuyW
10-09-2009, 1:02 PM
Dirks aren't illegal to own, just to conceal.

I looked and found nothing about spears,but I've been assured by the folk here that it would be considered a dirk. The fact is any sort of poking thing can be a dirk, ie screwdriver, ballpoint pen, probably a sharp stick. I have a friend right now up on sword charges, but that' another story, I chose not to tell here. What I have heard here is that anything that is carried for self defense is a violation of PC 12020. If asked why you had a cane and you answer for self defense, now it's a billy club.
The laws have to change and the 1st natural law (self defense) has to be restored to the people.
Everyone is upset today that Obama got a 1.4 million dollar peace prize. That's nothing a scumb bag in Oakland got a 1.2 million dollar prize for robbing a church.
take care
Mike

mmartin
10-09-2009, 1:08 PM
"Carrying a lethal weapon"?

What's the code number for that?

I've got a sword in my truck right now...

It's for chopping wood.

sorry for my imprecision there...
don't know what PC she was charged with, never saw the legal details of her case, however what was included had do with:
1) consealed sword in her car (it was in a cloth case in her kit, found and confiscated by LE after she foolishly consented to a car search)
2) making terroristic threats (for yelling at the woman her husband was having an affair with as said woman was exiting the front door of my friend's house one afternoon when she arrived home.)
LE confiscated the sword, arrested her, charged her with several felonies including weapons violations.
megan

Turo
10-09-2009, 1:16 PM
What about the 6" ti-lite from cold steel. Much quicker on the draw as they hook on a pocket and open as you take them out. They're really inexpensive and look pretty mean if you ask me!

I carry one every day :)

Scares the crap outta any anti that happens to see me cleaning my fingernails :43:

Mikeb
10-09-2009, 1:29 PM
Dirks aren't illegal to own, just to conceal.

Are you sure?

"12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.



seems like possession is covered.

(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses ...

and besides who cares. A three inch knife a four inch knife a sharp pointy knife. The point is you can't carry it to defend yourself or even to dance as Megan pointed out.
Correcting the firearms laws is great, but why can't we go back and correct the "caveman club laws"?
take care
Mike

ke6guj
10-09-2009, 1:35 PM
Are you sure?

"12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.



seems like possession is covered.

(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses ...
Dirks arent' covererd under 12020(a)(1), they are under 12020(a)(4)
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.

(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.If it isn't carried concealed upon his person, it isn't a violation. You can own as many dirk/daggers as you want, as long as you don't conceal them on you person. You can openly carry them in a scabbard on your belt. You can keep them at home as well.


Correcting the firearms laws is great, but why can't we go back and correct the "caveman club laws"?My guess is that is coming up soon. As soon as SCOTUS rules for incorporation, the NY nunchuck laws will probably get overturned, and that may help us with much of the 12020 stuff here.

Mikeb
10-09-2009, 1:45 PM
Dirks arent' covererd under 12020(a)(1), they are under 12020(a)(4)
If it isn't carried concealed upon his person, it isn't a violation. You can own as many dirk/daggers as you want, as long as you don't conceal them on you person. You can openly carry them in a scabbard on your belt. You can keep them at home as well.

Thank you for the correction... I'll have to go dig up my old Randal survival knife. Or maybe I'll start carrying my kriss when I go to the store. And the "dirk on a stick" aka spear would be a lawful walking companion?
take care
Mike

serrogate
10-09-2009, 1:57 PM
screw all the laws and just get one of these
http://collectorebooks.com/gregg01/pinfire/DSC05246.jpg

ke6guj
10-09-2009, 1:58 PM
I would suggest reading Jim March's CA knife law summary, http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html that gets in more detail about what is legal in CA regarding the knife front.

But once you starte getting into the more exotic stuff like spears and swords, is where it gets grey.

serrogate
10-09-2009, 1:59 PM
folded
http://theworldsbestever.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/the-apache.jpg

serrogate
10-09-2009, 2:08 PM
can this be ok to be concealed?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4195ZXYBHWL._SL500_AA280_.jpg
its a 17" folding knife

pullnshoot25
10-09-2009, 2:28 PM
can this be ok to be concealed?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4195ZXYBHWL._SL500_AA280_.jpg
its a 17" folding knife

There is no length limit in California EXCEPT when on K-12 campuses and a few other locales. On a state level though, there are no length restrictions.

I could legally carry a folding broadsword onto my college campus if I wanted to.

mmartin
10-09-2009, 2:36 PM
I could legally carry a folding broadsword onto my college campus if I wanted to.

you have one of those?:D
megan

Mikeb
10-09-2009, 2:54 PM
Thanks Jack, I looked at that and it is a useful bit of information. I think the point I'm trying to make here and in my earlier rants on the subject is that free people should be allowed to carry weapons for self defense. The issue with armed individuals ought to be intent. If a lil' ol' lady wants to carry her change to the store in a sock, she shouldn't be violating the law on carrying a SAP. The guy with no bank account hanging out at the ATM machine? That's different. These differences already exist. I can put my .45 and a loaded magazine in a briefcase and go for a drive, if I'm not out to commit a fellony. For a gangbanger, they would be guilty of carrying a loaded gun. If I want to walk down the street practicing with my numchucks I should be able to as long as I'm not threatening my neighbors or harming anyone.
I'm sure figuring out these laws is difficult but that's why they get paid the big bucks. Just banning everything imaginable isn't right.
take care
Mike

serrogate
10-09-2009, 3:40 PM
I could legally carry a folding broadsword onto my college campus if I wanted to.
seriously
+1
if you can get one lol

pullnshoot25
10-09-2009, 5:42 PM
you have one of those?:D
megan

I wish!

postal
10-09-2009, 10:10 PM
My local city college has a 2 1/2" blade length limit even for folding knives.

In my last neighborhood, my dogs were attacked 2 times by 2 different loose pitbulls. I was fuming mad. I asked a Sherriff deputy what I could do (told him about the pits) and he informed me that I "absolutely had the right to protect myself and my dogs." But would not in any way shape or form give me a list of options.

I'm a young skinny fit guy too- a cane would be real outta place, but if I lived in that neighborhood still, I'd do it.