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View Full Version : B.S. Editorial on AB962


reidnez
10-07-2009, 9:23 AM
Here's what "the other side" is reading. (fixed link)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2009/10/04/EDUP1A0DE9.DTL

And here's my favorite part:


"It would not stop the sale," [Deleon] emphasized, but it would provide a record that law enforcement could later check.
Wait a second. Did I just read the author of the bill readily admitting that it will not stop a single round of ammunition getting into the hands of criminals? In a sympathetic editorial, no less? Yep, I did.

Maybe the next step, once it is realized how worthless this law is, will be to run NICS background checks every time you want to buy ammo.

Breadfan
10-07-2009, 9:25 AM
your link appears to be broken

Uriah02
10-07-2009, 9:30 AM
Considering it is coming from the SF Gate, it isn't that bad... I find a common theme that the editorials skip is mentioning the prohibition of online and mail-order ammo.

Uriah02
10-07-2009, 9:30 AM
your link appears to be broken

search AB962 and it will pop up

reidnez
10-07-2009, 9:34 AM
your link appears to be broken

Fixed it, thanks!

sb_pete
10-07-2009, 10:13 AM
Here you go:
Editorial: Fingerprints on ammo sales

Monday, October 5, 2009

In most parts of California, a convicted felon or anyone else who cannot legally possess a firearm - spouse abusers under court order, the criminally insane - can walk into a gun shop or Walmart and buy a bushel of ammunition without anyone asking questions.

The purchase would be illegal, but (unlike a gun sale) there would be no way to stop it - and no record of it. In fact, there is no law against knowingly selling ammunition to criminals who are not allowed to possess it.

The California Legislature has just passed legislation (AB962) that would close this gaping loophole in efforts to keep our streets safe from gun violence.

Assemblyman Kevin de Leon, the Los Angeles Democrat who authored the bill, noted that a gun without ammunition "is like a syringe without the drug."

His bill would require dealers to check a purchaser's identification and take a thumbprint when selling handgun ammunition.

"It would not stop the sale," he emphasized, but it would provide a record that law enforcement could later check. Similar rules are on the books in Los Angeles and Sacramento, but such patchwork laws are meaningless when a criminal can readily go to a neighboring town where no questions are asked and no records are kept. In the Los Angeles area, for example, no such laws prevail in Compton's abundance of gun shops.

AB962 also would require vendors to keep their handgun ammunition out of immediate reach of customers, similar to the requirements on the stocking of spray paints, cigarettes or cold medicine. And it would require that purchases via mail order or the Internet would have to be picked up at a dealer who would check ID and take the thumbprint.

This bill represents a sensible attempt to control the flow of ammunition to the criminals without constraining the rights of law-abiding citizens. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger should sign it into law.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/05/EDUP1A0DE9.DTL

This article appeared on page A - 10 of the San Francisco Chronicle

bigcalidave
10-07-2009, 10:20 AM
Gaping loophole ! Oh Noes a gaping hole ! Idiots. The criminals will still buy the ammo and there will be a fingerprint and I'd number in a book. Like the state doesn't already have their pictures and prints.

spotter1
10-07-2009, 10:32 AM
They can't even control the felons they have behind bars, the Mexican Mafia runs and guns like no tomorrow.

bomb_on_bus
10-07-2009, 10:59 AM
man this is so reminiscent of the 60's when they passed a similar law that didn't have any effect and had the same loophole effects.

funny thing is its makes it legal for a criminal to possess blank ammunition b/c AB692 no longer recognizes blanks as actual ammo. My thought is how long is it going to take for some criminals to do a robbery or rape with a blank firing gun that could easily be obtained.

reidnez
10-07-2009, 11:07 AM
man this is so reminiscent of the 60's when they passed a similar law that didn't have any effect and had the same loophole effects.

funny thing is its makes it legal for a criminal to possess blank ammunition b/c AB692 no longer recognizes blanks as actual ammo. My thought is how long is it going to take for some criminals to do a robbery or rape with a blank firing gun that could easily be obtained.

Yep. There was a similar, federal law on the books which was overturned by Congress in 1983, because it was found to have no benefit whatsoever to law enforcement. Funny how legislators' political memory is so short, huh?

Scratch705
10-07-2009, 12:14 PM
i'm guessing in their thinking... do they really think criminals only purchase guns/ammo from within the state? any decent drug/gun runner will expand to other states and as such can easily bring in ammo from other states/country to feed the criminal underground.

but of course they can't admit to that or else everyone can see how useless this is and only creates more bureaucracy and legal paperwork and hinders only those buying them legally.

if AB962 passes, it would be easier for me to buy from those gun runners than a real store and maybe cheaper too.... :rolleyes:

reidnez
10-07-2009, 3:48 PM
i'm guessing in their thinking... do they really think criminals only purchase guns/ammo from within the state? any decent drug/gun runner will expand to other states and as such can easily bring in ammo from other states/country to feed the criminal underground.

but of course they can't admit to that or else everyone can see how useless this is and only creates more bureaucracy and legal paperwork and hinders only those buying them legally.

if AB962 passes, it would be easier for me to buy from those gun runners than a real store and maybe cheaper too.... :rolleyes:

Not to mention, how much ammo do career criminals really use? I'm thinking they aren't going to the range twice a month, seeing as a felon caught with a gun is a felon back in jail...

With that, I doubt they're cleaning out the local WalMarts with any regularity. Seems to me that if I were of a mind to do only nefarious things with a firearm, a couple of boxes would probably last me years...

neal0124
10-07-2009, 6:47 PM
These "criminals" that they are trying to keep from buying ammo don't buy ammo. They steal it. I've had co-workers tell me that their "buddys" can get me anything I want. One guy said that one of these buddys offered to sell him a S&W .44mag, brand new in the box for $400. They rob the trucks before they get to the stores, or they have inside guys telling them where to steal if from. Just like scratch said, I may have to buy ammo from these jerks, I won't be able to afford it otherwise.

ship12
10-07-2009, 9:52 PM
man this is so reminiscent of the 60's when they passed a similar law that didn't have any effect and had the same loophole effects.

funny thing is its makes it legal for a criminal to possess blank ammunition b/c AB692 no longer recognizes blanks as actual ammo. My thought is how long is it going to take for some criminals to do a robbery or rape with a blank firing gun that could easily be obtained.

Would you honestly fire a gun with blanks to commit a rape??? It's already like 25 years in prison, whats a misdemenor for buying ammo illegally (or stealing it). If it's robbery inside, all it takes is 1 person to notice theres no bullet hole and the whole plan to use blanks falls apart. In either case, what if it attracts a person who thinks the guns loaded with bullets and shoots you? Generally, a criminal wants to be discrete. The longer it takes LE to find out, the longer he has to commit the crime and get away. Once a shot is fired, someone outside knows to call cops. Or he could be armed and want to be a hero... you never know. I was working at a store a few years ago, it had a bank inside. I walked inside, like.. 5 minutes after a robbery, people were still kind of freaked out, no one fired a shot. Theres no reason to fire a shot.

As for the law itself. It'll catch stupid criminals who buy their ammo and leave prints at the crime scene. It's not useless. It's also not that useful since theres other means to ID a person. For example,criminal databases, military ID, driver's licenses, etc, are a way to ID a person based off of finger prints. This bill could ad leverage for LE, since they can ID a person who bought the aumminition. If they bought it to aid a person in comitting a crime, they either guilty of accessory or conspiracy laws, depending on levels of involvement or knowledge of how the ammo would be used.