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View Full Version : Gun Store says NO on Bullet Button...


spotter1
10-06-2009, 1:36 PM
I just got back from a gun store and I was told if you use the bullet button in the field you will be arrested if caught. The moment it becomes separated "it is now a detachable magazine" They went on to say it has to be loaded from the top w/stripper clip. This was at Jones Fort in Redding.

Eroland7
10-06-2009, 1:39 PM
:fud:

5150Marcelo
10-06-2009, 1:39 PM
Tell them
F

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D!!!

reidnez
10-06-2009, 1:41 PM
Let me guess, they had something else to sell you?

About the last place I go for reliable information is a typical gun store. Some clerks are knowledgeable (even some clerks whose stores don't deal in EBR's), but by and large they are not at all up on the law and pull stuff out of their butts.

Every time you ask them to cite the relevant P.C., name the people who've been arrested or find you a link to a news article describing the event, they will mumble excuses.

PolishMike
10-06-2009, 1:42 PM
FUD

reidnez
10-06-2009, 1:42 PM
Name the store or don't post at all.

He said it was Jones Fort in Redding...

DanHuuN
10-06-2009, 1:43 PM
What the FUD?????

bomb_on_bus
10-06-2009, 1:44 PM
did you inform them of the error or anything of that nature.

makes me wonder how many people were informed of this ahead of the OP catching it.

Barney Gumble
10-06-2009, 1:45 PM
They are wrong. It's not detachable without a tool, and that's the legal requirement.

They're also kind of mechanically clueless, because the "detachability" has nothing to do with whether the magazine is in or out of the rifle. It's entirely a matter of how the mag catch is set up. If you have a mag lock of some kind, whether it's a bullet button or a Raddlock or whatever, the mag is not detachable without a tool, period. Take the mag out, and it's still not detachable without a tool.

Let this be your lesson that gun stores are pretty much the worst place to get accurate information about gun laws.

reidnez
10-06-2009, 1:46 PM
did you inform them of the error or anything of that nature.

makes me wonder how many people were informed of this ahead of the OP catching it.

Probably too many. I haven't been back to Redding in about a year (it's my hometown), but last time I was there, there were no shops dealing in EBR's--I'm sure OP can correct me if this has changed. So unfortunately, a lot of people who do get their info from gun shops have probably been lead badly astray.

spotter1
10-06-2009, 1:53 PM
did you inform them of the error or anything of that nature.

makes me wonder how many people were informed of this ahead of the OP catching it.

Yes..I did but fell on deaf ears, I went there to see what the charge would be to have my new lower and upper sent since the are one FFL. You would have thought I crapped on their counter.
I am new to a build out and was just trying to get started.
The guy was really kind of a knowitall*****.

reidnez
10-06-2009, 1:56 PM
Yes..I did but fell on deaf ears, I went there to see what the charge would be to have my new lower and upper sent since the are one FFL. You would have thought I crapped on their counter.
I am new to a build out and was just trying to get started.
The guy was really kind of a knowitall*****.

Have you tried Olde West or Nice Shot? As I said I have not lived in Redding for some time and never bought any EBR stuff there so I have no idea of their policies, but they may be worth a shot. I'm leaning toward Nice Shot.

You might also be able to find a "kitchen-table" FFL to do the receiving transfer for you.

By the way, uppers do not have to be sent to FFL's--only lowers and complete rifles.

Hopi
10-06-2009, 2:01 PM
Jones Fort has a long history of FUD farming... (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=90575)

Flying Bones
10-06-2009, 2:05 PM
new store in your area....ten ring...they're on here...and good for an OLL transfer.

Here's the sig line info...

Thanks, Jason
Ten Ring Enterprises
1705 Airport Blvd Suite E
Red Bluff, CA 96080
(530)528-1225

spotter1
10-06-2009, 2:05 PM
Have you tried Olde West or Nice Shot? As I said I have not lived in Redding for some time and never bought any EBR stuff there so I have no idea of their policies, but they may be worth a shot. I'm leaning toward Nice Shot.

You might also be able to find a "kitchen-table" FFL to do the receiving transfer for you.

By the way, uppers do not have to be sent to FFL's--only lowers and complete rifles.

Actually it seems up here you say AR and people look at you like your crazy.
I just want to get my parts to start the build. I'll check with Nice Shot and Old West. Thanks for the help. Yes I knew the upper didn't need an FFL but since they are coming from the same place at the same time? Hopefully I can find an FFL to get my goods.

spotter1
10-06-2009, 2:07 PM
[QUOTE=Flying Bones;3167584]new store in your area....ten ring...they're on here...and good for an OLL tra

Thanks!!! I'll get with them..

darkest2000
10-06-2009, 2:07 PM
shop elsewhere.

spotter1
10-06-2009, 2:14 PM
new store in your area....ten ring...they're on here...and good for an OLL transfer.

Here's the sig line info...

Thanks, Jason
Ten Ring Enterprises
1705 Airport Blvd Suite E
Red Bluff, CA 96080
(530)528-1225

Thanks again! I just called Jason. spot on advise thanks!

BigBamBoo
10-06-2009, 2:16 PM
..........

WeekendWarrior
10-06-2009, 2:18 PM
WWRTW

nstuyt
10-06-2009, 2:19 PM
Ive been told that also by a dealer who sold me a lower... From then on i've never trusted any advice from a dealer.

reidnez
10-06-2009, 2:21 PM
Ive been told that also by a dealer who sold me a lower... From then on i've never trusted any advice from a dealer.

So he told you it was illegal, then sold it to you??:confused:

andrewj
10-06-2009, 2:25 PM
I simply dont understand how so many people can get this wrong.

B Strong
10-06-2009, 2:32 PM
IIRC, Jones Fort wouldn't sell striped off list FAL receivers to California customers - they had them on GB - No California Sales.

BigBamBoo
10-06-2009, 2:33 PM
..........

dfletcher
10-06-2009, 2:35 PM
I simply dont understand how so many people can get this wrong.

I think it's because they attribute the term "detachable" as a quality of the magazine and not of the gun - the phrase "detachable magazine" tends to make people focus on the mag instead of the rifle, just a guess.

Or they don't start from point one which is "what is the legal definition of detachable?" and instead substitute their own common sense definition.

NineteenElev3n
10-06-2009, 2:35 PM
Sounds like FUD to me. This is what some old guy at Guns Fishing & Other Stuff in Vacaville tried to tell me when I was new to the AR scene. I told him to checkout and read the California laws before declaring something illegal.

halifax
10-06-2009, 2:39 PM
new store in your area....ten ring...they're on here...and good for an OLL transfer.

Here's the sig line info...

Thanks, Jason
Ten Ring Enterprises
1705 Airport Blvd Suite E
Red Bluff, CA 96080
(530)528-1225

Thanks again! I just called Jason. spot on advise thanks!

By all means support Jason. He's one of us.

Olde West and Great Outdoors are OLL friendly. Jones Fort is on more levels then one REALLY messed up....not just when it comes to dealing with AR's.

My friend just bought a couple of pounds of powder and 1K of primers....these were items ON THE SHELF...not ordered,etc.

They charged him a $22.00 Hazmat fee!?!?! So I then talked to my other buddy who had just bought primers there as well....he dug out his receipt...and guess what? He was also charged a hazmat fee!

I refuse to do business with them. On top of the way they talk/treat people....openly ripping people off. And their "knowledge" about OLL (they will tell you there is NO legal way to have a AR in CA. and that all the people who have BB are breaking the law and all the shops selling OLL are going to be shut down by the ATF)....it is just not my kind of gun store.

Take care,Stan

Hazmat Fee for off the shelf goods. That's just silly. :p

=Mike=
10-06-2009, 2:42 PM
I live in redding too, Jones Fort does not carry AR's, didnt ask why, Old West does, and they carry bullet buttons and 10 round mags.

I carry this print in my AR case, [thanks to calguns] just in case a leo is oblivious.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

BigDogatPlay
10-06-2009, 2:43 PM
They charged him a $22.00 Hazmat fee!?!?! So I then talked to my other buddy who had just bought primers there as well....he dug out his receipt...and guess what? He was also charged a hazmat fee!

Crap on top of FUD. Charging a full $22 Hazmat Fee on top of the price, when they probably paid the fee once on a bulk order of powder from their distributor, is just plain wrong. If, OTOH, they are getting nicked for a full fee for each pound of powder shipped, then they are stoopid on top of being gougers, IMO.

Definitely shop elsewhere... for all your firearms, ammo and accessory needs.

VaderSpade
10-06-2009, 2:46 PM
Did they give you a HELP STOP AB962/SB585 flyer??? I dropped some off last week. I would like to know if they are handing them out???

VaderSpade
10-06-2009, 2:48 PM
I buy a lot of powder there. They have never charged (me) a Hazmat Fee????

Khram
10-06-2009, 2:48 PM
FUD sucks, both this type of FUD and the FUD ham and hot dogs sold at Mexican markets! To be honest if I had a gunshop probably not deal in OLL but I certainly would not spread fud like that.

bootcamp
10-06-2009, 2:49 PM
Most of these shopped have been threatened by CA DOJ that they will get their FFL pulled if they sell EBRs. I know the San Leandro FFL won't deal with AKs because of that specific reason.

Barney Gumble
10-06-2009, 2:50 PM
IIRC, Jones Fort wouldn't sell striped off list FAL receivers to California customers - they had them on GB - No California Sales.

LOL - how did they get the receivers then, if they think it's an illegal item in CA? AW permit or just talking out of both sides of their mouths?

nstuyt
10-06-2009, 2:52 PM
So he told you it was illegal, then sold it to you??:confused:

Pretty much, which made absolutely no sense to me :confused: He told me that in order to make it Cali-Legal, I would have to send it in to a blacksmith and have them weld the 10rnd mag in. Needless to say im glad I didnt follow their advice.

tacticalcity
10-06-2009, 2:53 PM
Nobody knows less about guns than a gun store employee! Can't tell you how much B.S. I have heard these guys spout. Police officers run a close second. It defies logic but it is true. You would not believe the nonsense I've heard my law enforcement buddies say about gun laws and gun safety. It is really alarming. The people you would expect to be experts never seem to know what the heck they are talking about., even when it is their job to know. They are also the most insistent that they know what they are talking about you can't possibly know more than they do. Drives me nuts! Won many a bets for money, gear, and so on with people about it. I usually try and turn it into something fun rather than confrontational. Bet 'em $20, or a box of ammo, and so on but keep it friendly. Then gather all the info. and email it or print it out. Good way to get free ammo.

All that said, the law enforcement guys seem to be getting better information these days, in no small part due to Calguns.net influence.

Khram
10-06-2009, 2:57 PM
Pretty much, which made absolutely no sense to me :confused: He told me that in order to make it Cali-Legal, I would have to send it in to a blacksmith and have them weld the 10rnd mag in. Needless to say im glad I didnt follow their advice.

A BLACKSMITH? :confused:

They gonna do up your FAL while you shoe your horse as well?

Khram
10-06-2009, 2:57 PM
Nobody knows less about guns than a gun store employee!

A stereotype but unfortunately many stereotypes are based on some truth.

G17GUY
10-06-2009, 3:07 PM
A BLACKSMITH? :confused:

They gonna do up your FAL while you shoe your horse as well?
:D

Thats funny.


Just make sure you drop this off at reddings
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf

spotter1
10-06-2009, 3:12 PM
Did they give you a HELP STOP AB962/SB585 flyer??? I dropped some off last week. I would like to know if they are handing them out???

No they did not give me the AB962 handout...
I do know this needs to be VETOED!!!

B Strong
10-06-2009, 3:39 PM
LOL - how did they get the receivers then, if they think it's an illegal item in CA? AW permit or just talking out of both sides of their mouths?

Don't go bringin' in no logic when ya talk to them gunshop x-spurts now, ya hear?

devildog999
10-06-2009, 3:40 PM
They are full of it and don't know what they are talking about

swerv512
10-06-2009, 3:41 PM
I'm gonna call them FORT FUD from now on....

BigBamBoo
10-06-2009, 3:43 PM
............

welchy
10-06-2009, 4:19 PM
A stereotype but unfortunately many stereotypes are based on some truth.

All Steroetypes are based on truth. They just don't apply to everyone. That is what makes them a stereotype. ;)

sonico
10-06-2009, 4:25 PM
I got that exact same info from Atascadero Arms. Claimed that removing the magazine instantly transforms it into an assault weapon. Something to do with it now being "capable of accepting detachable magazines".

tenring
10-20-2009, 8:39 PM
Thanks to those supporting our store and for the kind words here. Make the trip to Red Bluff and we'll make it worth your while.;)

tiko
10-21-2009, 8:27 PM
Many stores sell OLL, Rancho Cordova Shooting Center even sell MP15 with BB ($1100). No more business with Jones Fort.

BrowningTBolt
10-21-2009, 8:41 PM
This store needs to stop spreading BS and trying to scary people. Just because they aren't comfortable with a particular item doesn't make it illegal. Leave the lawyering to the lawyers and others in the know. I wish they would join CG and try and articulate EXACTLY WHY a bullet button is not legal when used properly?

stomper4x4
10-21-2009, 8:43 PM
I just got back from a gun store and I was told if you use the bullet button in the field you will be arrested if caught. The moment it becomes separated "it is now a detachable magazine" They went on to say it has to be loaded from the top w/stripper clip. This was at Jones Fort in Redding.

Fort Jones is a bunch of you know whats. I went to that place once and was treated poorly. I gave them one more chance on a return visit, and they were still pieholes. So try Ole West or head to 10 ring in Red Bluff.

Jorge
10-21-2009, 11:29 PM
Pretty much, which made absolutely no sense to me :confused: He told me that in order to make it Cali-Legal, I would have to send it in to a blacksmith and have them weld the 10rnd mag in. Needless to say im glad I didnt follow their advice.

LOL@ sending a firearm to a Blacksmith. I could just picture your FAL on top of an anvil while the blacksmith is hammering away. Maybe the gunshop employees were just having fun with you. :)

freonr22
10-21-2009, 11:33 PM
so EDUCATE then instead of boycotting them

-hanko
10-22-2009, 4:30 AM
I just got back from a gun store and I was told if you use the bullet button in the field you will be arrested if caught. The moment it becomes separated "it is now a detachable magazine" They went on to say it has to be loaded from the top w/stripper clip. This was at Jones Fort in Redding.
Welcome to last year.

-hanko

sierratangofoxtrotunion
10-22-2009, 10:03 AM
send it in to a blacksmith and have them weld

Wow, suggesting that to get something welded you need to go to a... blacksmith...

Unclear on SEVERAL concepts.

Flying Bones
10-22-2009, 10:27 AM
so EDUCATE then instead of boycotting them

You can lead a horse to water...

chuckdc
10-22-2009, 11:03 AM
I was in a local store here in Fresno (Herb Bauers) and one of their salesguys was spreading the FUD,too.
As he as demonstrating one of those top-feeder ARs, he was telling the customer "Now, don't let someone try to sell you on those Bullet Button ARs, they're not really legal..blah blah baaaah" Luckily, I had to go to work and didn't jump in (didnt have time to do the topic justice).

jdberger
10-22-2009, 11:11 AM
Most of these shopped have been threatened by CA DOJ that they will get their FFL pulled if they sell EBRs. I know the San Leandro FFL won't deal with AKs because of that specific reason.

What San Leandro FFL?

jdberger
10-22-2009, 11:21 AM
Next time you go in, make sure you're wearing the Iggy T-Shirt (http://www.zazzle.com/5469_a_tshirt-235475476270462814).

Everything you need to know is right there.

bhaworth
10-22-2009, 11:26 AM
What they should have said was that your gun would be illegal if the magazine was removed before all evil features. I believe this to be true. Unless you want to remove the pistol grip, flash hider, etc before removing the magazine you had better load from the top and not use the bullet button in California.

ShelbyGT500
10-22-2009, 11:29 AM
What they should have said was that your gun would be illegal if the magazine was removed before all evil features. I believe this to be true. Unless you want to remove the pistol grip, flash hider, etc before removing the magazine you had better load from the top and not use the bullet button in California.

even with an open magwell, the firearm cannot remove magazines without a tool. Removing a mag doesnt change the BB from having to use a tool to not.

bhaworth
10-22-2009, 11:38 AM
OK, you are probably correct. Now that I think about it it is just the original order of building up your lower that matters. Bullet button first then evil features. I stand corrected.

ShelbyGT500
10-22-2009, 11:51 AM
I believe that theory you had was with a prince50, because you have to manually change the lock of the button, so when you remove the mag, it has evil features and the Prince50 is in the tool-ess release setting, so in the time you replace the mag and reengage the Prine50, it is in AW status

BigBamBoo
10-22-2009, 11:55 AM
...........

eaglemike
10-22-2009, 12:01 PM
OK, you are probably correct. Now that I think about it it is just the original order of building up your lower that matters. Bullet button first then evil features. I stand corrected.
Ummm, still not yet correct. An assembled lower, even with standard magazine release is not an AW unless it's listed. It is not a centerfre semi-automatic rifle, is it? Of course not. It could be made into a rimfire semi-automatic, right? Or a straight-pull bolt action centerfire, or even a single shot. California doesn't have constructive possession laws for this.

The flow chart is your friend.

all the best,
Mike

Greg-Dawg
10-22-2009, 12:04 PM
So did anyone contact Jones Fort in Redding?

WeekendWarrior
10-22-2009, 12:09 PM
WWRTW

Highlander258
10-27-2009, 6:01 AM
If your truly interested in trying that with Jones Fort...let me know and I will give you their #. I would love to hear what you think after talking to them.

Take care,Stan

I also recommend dealing with Jason at 10 Ring out by the airport in Red Bluff. He won't steer you wrong and is great to deal with! Everytime I have gone into Jones Fort they made me feel they were doing me a great service by allowing me to spend my hard earned money there.

camsoup
10-27-2009, 3:33 PM
Fort Jones is a bunch of you know whats. I went to that place once and was treated poorly. I gave them one more chance on a return visit, and they were still pieholes. So try Ole West or head to 10 ring in Red Bluff.


I agree....I went once when shopping for a handgun, was told I need to buy now you wont have them in CA because microstamping goes into effect in 2010... this was Feb of 08

The next chance they got was in nov 08, my wife and I went to look for a HD shotgun. You would have thought we were insane they way the guy behind the counter says you aren't gonna find one of those in this town....everyone shoots birds up here. He then tried to argue and say every mossberg 590 has a metal trigger group when I inquired about the price difference between a 590 and 590a1

+1 for Ten Ring!!

bigcalidave
10-27-2009, 6:00 PM
There really isn't a point to discussing ARs with jones fort. I know them very well, and I don't even bother. They have a long established gun business, and tons of customers. If they don't want to mess with ARs simply because it may be gray area stuff still, and they don't want ANYTHING to risk their business, that is their choice. I will go to 10 ring for now on, although I'll still stop by jones fort to ask pat the latest from our city council :P

xibunkrlilkidsx
10-27-2009, 6:52 PM
FUD. but not the 1st time ive heard of such a thing.

LexLuther
10-27-2009, 10:13 PM
plus one for tenring, Jason is great! I go to Olde West for everything I can in Redding. The wait can be long, but they allways shoot streight and do their best for the customer.

Forget trying to educate Jones unless you think you can teach a rock to fetch a ball and bring it back to you. I have been in there many times and got the funny attitude on EBR. One of the guys is just cranky all the time anyway. It would be more honest if they just said they dont like to deal with them rather than trying to spread all this B.S.

I once went in looking for swivel studs for my 870, and was told that I better come back and have their gunsmith do it because I being a novice idiot would splinter out the stock and damage it. I came back another day to have the stud installed, and guess what it came back splintered...I should have just done it myself.

I have purchased powder and not been charged a HazMat. If this is happening, someone should bring it to their attention as it may be fraud by a single employee...

As for Patrick, He does a great Job on the City Council, I think he takes the job seriously and wants to do what is best for Redding.