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View Full Version : 40,000 guns seized in crackdown


Technical Ted
02-11-2005, 1:33 PM
xxxxxxxxxx

Leon DeGamme
02-11-2005, 1:37 PM
how long before we are in the same boat?

walkerboh4269
02-11-2005, 1:50 PM
Funny the wife and I were having a conversation last night about something like this.

She started out by saying that the she is some what afraid that we may be sued for discrimination because we refuse to service people who don't speak English.

I told her it would never happen. I was then given well soon the Government will say we all need to speak Spanish because the majority of Californian's are Spanish speaking.

I once again said that will not happen. Some how see than made the leap to "rounding up all the guns and gunowners". Don't ask me how she got to here from there.

We than had a long conversation about how I don't think the Government or anyone else would seriously try that here. I am also of the belief that if they did the people in charge would have a long fight on there hands. And I don't mean a legal fight.

Richard
02-11-2005, 2:42 PM
what kind of buisness do you have, that you refuse service to non english speakers?

walkerboh4269
02-11-2005, 2:59 PM
The wife and I run an Insurance Brokerage.

We are the only employees. We also only speak English.

One of our main responsibilities is to make sure that our clients know what kind of insurance policy they are get as well as what they will be covered for and what they will not be covered for.

Since their is no way to guarantee that any translator I use would say what I am saying then I will not serve non english speakers.

Not only that but as far as I am concerned if you want to live here learn our language. If I went to another country to live I would be expected to speak that countries language.

I know some will say that English is not our official language all, but in reality our country was founded using the English language.

Richard
02-11-2005, 3:05 PM
thanks....just curious.

Mugwump
02-11-2005, 3:22 PM
Good for you.

The idea of someone coming here, probably illegally, and expecting us to adapt to their language is pathetic with the levels of acceptance it has reached.

jnojr
02-11-2005, 3:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by walkerboh4269:
We than had a long conversation about how I don't think the Government or anyone else would seriously try that here. I am also of the belief that if they did the people in charge would have a long fight on there hands. And I don't mean a legal fight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We know that that's what the gun-grabbers want... door-to-door confiscation of firearms. And we see gun laws slowly getting worse all the time, especially here in California.

I submit that, not only are you wrong, but that registration and confiscation are just about inevitable. Especially as lazy and apathetic as gun owners are... out of 35,000,000 residents, how many are gun owners? A lot... probably in the neighborhood of 10,000,000 or more. How many vote like gun owners? How many get involved, write letters, make phone calls, etc? Practically none.

We can't sit here and say "Oh, it'll never happen" as we watch it slowly happen. We have to fight (politically) now. Because you're just kidding yourself if you really believe masses of people will take up arms and march on Washington or Sacramento. We're the frog in the pot of water, and they're turning up the heat a little at a time. By the time we realize the water is boiling, it'll be far too late.

walkerboh4269
02-11-2005, 3:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jnojr:
We _know_ that that's what the gun-grabbers want... door-to-door confiscation of firearms. And we see gun laws slowly getting worse all the time, especially here in California.

I submit that, not only are you wrong, but that registration and confiscation are just about inevitable. Especially as lazy and apathetic as gun owners are... out of 35,000,000 residents, how many are gun owners? A lot... probably in the neighborhood of 10,000,000 or more. How many vote like gun owners? How many get involved, write letters, make phone calls, etc? Practically _none_.

We can't sit here and say "Oh, it'll never happen" as we watch it slowly happen. We have to fight (politically) now. Because you're just kidding yourself if you really believe masses of people will take up arms and march on Washington or Sacramento. We're the frog in the pot of water, and they're turning up the heat a little at a time. By the time we realize the water is boiling, it'll be far too late. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me clarify my thinking.

I believe it can happen and that there are people working to make it happen right now. However I do what I can to stop that from happening. I vote I write letters I spend money.

I hope the time never comes that they bang on my door to get my guns. However I think we will see it coming far enough in advance to do "something" about it.

I believe it would be much harder than people think to just go door to door and grab all the guns.

After all we are armed. And there is not enough of them to knock on all our doors at the same time.

I also understand the frog analogy. Some people on other boards I visit advise to run from Ca as fast as possible. I feel me must make the stand here so it gets no worse and hopefully better. The only way to change the system is from within.

I hope for the best. Fight to keep it from happening. And prepare for the worst.

1919_4_ME
02-11-2005, 4:31 PM
There not taking our guns!
There just making sure our kids cant buy them.When we die our guns get turned in!Our kids,kids will never know whats its like to own a gun so they will not fight for them in the future.Thats how they are slowly getting rid of guns! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Ted_Bell
02-11-2005, 4:50 PM
Those in charge at the gov't level are not stupid. They realize that confiscation by force would be impractical. Over a long period of time, the perception by the public will change to reflect the idea that guns are only needed by the gov't and that gun owners are unreasonable. After all, the second amendment was created during a time when it was needed because the country was in turmoil. Governments are stable in these modern times, and there is no need for the people to be prepared for a fight.

In order to promote peace and stability, we are asking that you turn-in your weapons and the names of your neighbors who own weapons. After the one year grace period, anyone holding a weapon is subject to a penalty of death.

The PRC is well on its way to demonizing guns in general. Just a few short years ago, the gun stores were full of all types of semi-auto rifles with hi-cap mags. You could freely go out and shoot your evil guns without raising any eyebrows. Overnight they became illegal, and many people went underground. Those same rifles now have the same reputation as machine guns in the eyes of the people of cali.

It would be a very small step for the gov't of cali to outright ban the ownership of guns that were registered and of hi-caps. Do you think anyone would protest if a law was passed this year to ban ownership--either remove from the state or destroy? No because only a small number of people registered and they are the only folks who would be affected since those who did not register have no voice.

My 2 cents for the day.

TB

BSA
02-11-2005, 6:45 PM
This discussion highlights how important it is to defeat the proposed handgun ban, in San Francisco.
If this ban is passed by the voters and survies a court challenge, then you can expect San Francisco will not remain the only California city with a handgun ban. A ban passed by the voters, may make it less likely to invalidated by the courts.

Fear of eventual gun confiscation, maybe one reason there is a demand for legally antique
guns. No paper trail for the government to follow. The way the regulations are now, once a antique, always a antique... even if the gun was completely rebuilt decades later, as long as the original receiver is not changed (or in the case of a handgun, the frame)

ivanimal
02-12-2005, 12:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Mr Moroney said that, as part of the blitz, thousands of weapons were destroyed because police were not satisfied that the firearms were being kept securely, or that "possession of that firearm was necessarily further warranted".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the scariest statement ever, it is like having city boys run the DFG! Oh wait thats already happened.

Ford8N
02-12-2005, 6:11 AM
To know what the opposition would do, recall what our extremely popular Senator Feinstien said about AW's. If she had her way, she would have the GOVERNMENT round them all up.

I thought we were the Government?

1919_4_ME
02-12-2005, 12:00 PM
http://img107.exs.cx/img107/5632/waxman12rx.jpg Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (http://www.imageshack.us)

02-14-2005, 12:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by walkerboh4269:
Since their is no way to guarantee that any translator I use would say what I am saying then I will not serve non english speakers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was fine with that answer (although it's kinda far-fetched), until this got tacked on below it:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Not only that but as far as I am concerned if you want to live here learn our language. If I went to another country to live I would be expected to speak that countries language. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I won't tirade too much on this point since it's off-topic, but you should understand that learning a second language as an adult is more difficult than learning it as a child. That, not some mythical disregard for "assimilation", is the reason why there are many Spanish-only speaking people in California.
Let me ask you this though, WalkerBoh - if a potential customer brought in a friend (or someone they chose) to do the translating, would you still refuse to offer them services?

---

As for gun confiscations - as it was already pointed out, the door-to-door method would be unnecessary. It's preaching to the choir here, but on other non-gun forums I frequently have to deflect dismissive accusations of being "paranoid" when I say that the real process is to just generally hinder purchases of firearms so that no one will bother.
Unfortunately too, that doesn't just apply to our "gun rights" either.

02-14-2005, 12:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ford 8N:

I thought we were the Government? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. That idea got scrapped about two-hundred years ago.
The golden rule is the law of the land - Those who have the gold, rule those who don't.
http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

walkerboh4269
02-14-2005, 9:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Basura Blanca:
I won't tirade too much on this point since it's off-topic, but you should understand that learning a second language as an adult is more difficult than learning it as a child. _That_, not some mythical disregard for "assimilation", is the reason why there are many Spanish-only speaking people in California.
Let me ask you this though, WalkerBoh - if a potential customer brought in a friend (or someone _they_ chose) to do the translating, would you still refuse to offer them services?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am sure we have had this discussion before.

Yes even if they brought someone a friend or whoever I would still not service them. Just for information most of the translators that are brought into my office are the persons 12 years old or younger child.

As for learning a second language as an adult, I do understand how hard it is. In my college days I had a year and a half of French and I can still only under stand a couple of words.

How difficult it may be to learn a new language is irrelevant. I firmly believe that if you want to live here you should learn English.

If I went to live in Mexico or France or Germany I would be expect to learn their language. Period.

Like I said before we will have to agree to disagree on this subject.

02-14-2005, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by walkerboh4269:

I am sure we have had this discussion before. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Likely. It's BB bait for sure as it's one of my peeves.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yes even if they brought someone a friend or whoever I would still not service them. Just for information most of the translators that are brought into my office are the persons 12 years old or younger child. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My wife and I (mostly the wife) have been the mediating translator for English-challenged (how's that for p.c.? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) friends when they've needed it before. We've never had any objections from people providing any services for that reason. In fact, when good friends of ours were looking to buy a mobile home, our "translating services" were quite welcomed by one particular salesperson who was lamenting that the only Spanish-speaking salesman in his office was gobbling up a huge portion of the business because of it. Sounds like you might be missing out on the same, but it's your choice. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand, it sounds like you are engaging in a discriminatory business practice by refusing just on the basis of language. That's your choice - I don't really care, but you might be better served to keep it to yourself. For obvious reasons, I can understand your point on not wanting to deal with children in that respect, but there is no excuse for doing so if it's from an adult.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As for learning a second language as an adult, I do understand how hard it is. In my college days I had a year and a half of French and I can still only under stand a couple of words.

How difficult it may be to learn a new language is irrelevant. I firmly believe that if you want to live here you should learn English.

If I went to live in Mexico or France or Germany I would be expect to learn their language. Period.

Like I said before we will have to agree to disagree on this subject. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As for the "speak English or die" stuff: I'll admit that even I get a little perturbed when folks automatically assume that I'm fluent in Spanish (not even close) and I'll occasionally remind those people that not all dark-haired, olive skinned people like me are "Mexicans". IMO, I don't look Latino in any way shape or form, but it's almost a given that someone I'll meet in my travels during the course of a normal day will rattle off something to me in Spanish.
I stand by what I said though. Learning a second language is difficult in adulthood. Learning English as a native Spanish speaker would be equitable to comparing learning advanced brain surgery with peeling the backing off of a bandaid IMO. It's a difficult language to use effectively.

As for living in a foreign country - it'd be your choice whether or not to learn your host country's official language (if one existed).
That said, simply being dropped into Pakistan won't necessarily help your skills in mastering Urdu either. It's not that simple.

02-14-2005, 10:48 AM
Walkerboh, would you deny services to a deaf person for the same reason that you likely don't "speak" American Sign Language and thus couldn't determine if the translation was accrurate?

Just a hypothetical...

walkerboh4269
02-14-2005, 11:11 AM
Yes I would provided that they can not read and write in English. I have provided my services for the deaf before. It is very easy. It does require a lot of writing on both the client and my part.

What this really comes down to is I must be able to communicate with my clients. It is in their and my upmost interests that we can communicate effectively together. The nature of my business and the type of service we provide requires that I can communicate first hand with my client.

In point of fact the state requirements of my Profession require that I fully and completely explain everything that any of my clients are purchasing and signing for in a language that they understand.

As far as missing out on sales goes well.... I miss some but I don't care. My business is based in service. If i cannot service the person because we don't speak the same language than I feel I am just taking their money and not doing my job. I do recommend a agency that deals completely in Spanish speaking clients whenever I can not help.

My business decisions are not based on my personal beliefs. They are based on my legal requirements to run the business as well as what is best for the people I provide service for.