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View Full Version : Death Valley Talk: Can Someone Educate Them?


Southwest Chuck
10-05-2009, 3:03 PM
There is a current discussion about guns in the D.V. National Park. A lot of FUD like this post: http://www.deathvalley.com/dvtalk/messages/442119.shtml

I'm relatively new here and have been well educated by the Calguns members over the last few months, but can't "quote the laws as well as some here. I'm hoping someone who's more knowledgeable than I can open a few eyes over there about the new law about guns in National Parks going into effect in February (as it relates to California Law). I Posted a link to Mudcamper's excellent post on Firearms in Forests and Parks http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457but didn't seem to make much of an impact. But I did post this:http://www.deathvalley.com/dvtalk/messages/442158.shtml

I'm hoping someone would take the time to educate them over there. I certainly would appreciate it and would be a good chance to dispel some FUD and maybe bring some more people into the Calguns foal. If you register at the site, your comments get posted immediately. If not, they are delayed and have to be approved by one of the moderators, first. Here is the link to the main page: http://www.deathvalley.com/dvtalk/dvtalk.shtml Scroll down to the "Gun" posts.

Most are good people over there, but many are just as ignorant as I was before finding Calguns. I'm now an avid supporter of CGN and CGF and Try to spread the word as much as I can. Thanks for helping to educate me and hopefully, them.:)

M1A Rifleman
10-05-2009, 3:23 PM
What is the issue, it seems correct to me.
1. New law does not go into effect until 2011, maybe 2010 I don't recall.
2. Only CCW holders are allowed to carry within NP. No CCW your SOL.
3. OC was not included in the new law.
4. There is no target practice within DV, so UOC and LOC would be NO.

I miss something ?

Southwest Chuck
10-05-2009, 4:08 PM
What is the issue, it seems correct to me.
1. New law does not go into effect until 2011, maybe 2010 I don't recall.
2. Only CCW holders are allowed to carry within NP. No CCW your SOL.
3. OC was not included in the new law.
4. There is no target practice within DV, so UOC and LOC would be NO.

I miss something ?

Quoting the poster: "they(YOU) can not legally have a firearm within the park. Open carry (holstered Etc) is not legal anywhere within California except for hunting or target practice..

So you agree with the poster that with the new law, you can't legally have (posess) a firearm in the Park unless you're a LEO or have a CC permit?

From My understanding, UOC will be legal.
" " " LOC will be legal at my Campsite
" " " State law applies. What is legal in the State,
is legal in the Park.

This from Mudcamper's thread on Firearms in Forests and parks: IMPORTANT NOTE: On May 22, 2009, President Obama signed HR 627 into law. This will override 36 CFR 2.4 (a) and 50 CFR 27.42 effective February 22, 2010, at which time firearms will be permitted in NPs but subject to state laws. In California this means UOC/LOC will be legal like in the National Forests. and is located here (2nd post, halfway down: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457

Did I miss something?

Mitch
10-05-2009, 4:12 PM
No, you didn't miss anything. What is legal in the state will be legal in the National Park. So your job is educating them on state law, a tall order.

Recommend John Machtinger's How to Own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail in California and leave it at that.

M1A Rifleman
10-05-2009, 4:17 PM
Good luck. ;)

Southwest Chuck
10-08-2009, 10:06 AM
Rather than try to post PC codes, this is what I posted a few days ago over there and I tried to make it relevant from their perspective (and mine).

http://www.deathvalley.com/dvtalk/messages/442235.shtml

So far, No negative responses, and 1 positive. I also posted a link to Calguns.net. and in another post, a link to Mudcamper's post on Guns in Forests and Parks.

To the positive responder, I posted this: http://www.deathvalley.com/dvtalk/messages/442338.shtml

So, I took my shot at educating some people, even though I'm a rookie at it. :o

MudCamper
10-08-2009, 10:50 AM
See Firearms in Forest and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457).

You will be able to OC in NPs in CA after February 22, 2010. No permit required. You will be able to carry concealed and loaded with a CCW permit after that time as well.

See the link above for complete details. I'd recommend posting a link to that thread over in your other forum discussion.

tunder
10-08-2009, 11:09 AM
Southwest Chuck-

I'm half a country away from your location but side by side with you in making good, logically reasoned arguments, and information without sermon and wild rhetoric. And well done on pointing out sources for more info.


And, by the way, nice Jeep.

Southwest Chuck
10-08-2009, 11:17 AM
Rather than try to post PC codes, this is what I posted a few days ago over there and I tried to make it relevant from their perspective (and mine).

http://www.deathvalley.com/dvtalk/messages/442235.shtml

So far, No negative responses, and 1 positive. I also posted a link to Calguns.net. and in another post, a link to Mudcamper's post on Guns in Forests and Parks.

To the positive responder, I posted this: http://www.deathvalley.com/dvtalk/messages/442338.shtml

So, I took my shot at educating some people, even though I'm a rookie at it. :o

All ready did. I figured I'd let them research it a little. I know about UOC, but will LOC be allowed at least in the "outback" areas? Can they restrict that, given the language in the bill? :confused:

As an aside, I know how to post links as I did above, but how do you post the title and have it point to the link as you did? Just wondering

MudCamper
10-08-2009, 11:38 AM
I know about UOC, but will LOC be allowed at least in the "outback" areas? Can they restrict that, given the language in the bill? :confused:

After the new law goes into effect, they cannot ban loading per se, but they do have the authority per CFR to ban shooting. If they do, that triggers the 12031 "prohibited area" language in CA PC and thereby prohibits loading. But this effects only California.

Southwest Chuck
10-08-2009, 12:25 PM
Southwest Chuck-

I'm half a country away from your location but side by side with you in making good, logically reasoned arguments, and information without sermon and wild rhetoric. And well done on pointing out sources for more info.


And, by the way, nice Jeep.

Thanks tunder, I tried not to "attack" anyone or there views. That gets people automatically defensive, and they close off their minds to logical arguments. I just gave them "MY" perspective. They are familiar with the real life examples I gave which helps halt any "wild rhetorical" responses. I gently told them that they had a right to there views, but they didn't have a right to force them (by laws or restrictions) on me or anyone else.

Hopefully I provoked some thought, to the point, at least, some will re-examine their opinions and beliefs and actually research the issues instead of reacting solely on emotion alone.

Southwest Chuck
10-08-2009, 12:37 PM
After the new law goes into effect, they cannot ban loading per se, but they do have the authority per CFR to ban shooting. If they do, that triggers the 12031 "prohibited area" language in CA PC and thereby prohibits loading. But this effects only California.

Gotcha. It's the "if/then" effect. :kest: But if they do that, knowing it triggers 12031, again, wouldn't that be a violation of the law as it is written? Just wondering...... :confused: Wouldn't that be manipulating State Law for the purpose of regulating guns in the Park?