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View Full Version : M1 Carbine jamming problems and spent shells hitting my forehead!


Shizam
10-05-2009, 2:00 PM
I conceptually love my M1 Carbine but I can't make it through a whole 10 rnd clip without it jamming twice (in one of two different ways) and every other spent shell hits me in the forehead such that I have like 30 red dents in my head, IT HURTS! I'd really appreciate any help people can give on the problems.

So it jams in one of two ways which I'll illustrate below which I have theories on but no good solutions.

Jam #1: Bolt catches enough to pull bullet out of clip but then slips off and runs up the shell of the bullet:

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/671312117_jw54U-L.jpg (larger image here (http://www.smugmug.com/photos/671312117_jw54U-X3.jpg)

Jam #2: Bolt catches and holds but bullet catches on sliding into the barrel:

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/671312120_J7aZM-L.jpg (larger image here (http://www.smugmug.com/photos/671312120_J7aZM-X3.jpg)

I think part of the problem with #1 is that the clip has some jiggle when I put it in, maybe 1-2mm such that if I hold it up/in place I can see that the bolt would catch the top of the bullet case but if I let go and it drops 1-2mm the bolt just barely catches the bullet case. I've tried original USGS clips and some brand new black ammo clips and they both have the problem.

Problem #2 I've heard some people mention sanding down or polishing the path into the chamber, anybody document or try this? I bet that fixing this problem might even help fix problem #1 in that if its easier for the bullet to get into the chamber then the bolt won't slide off the bullet case.

As for cases hitting me in the face problem, I have no idea. I replaced one of the springs (Spring 1 in photo) in the bolt but I didn't replace the spring on what I now know is the 'ejector', maybe that'd help?

EDIT: Actually I did replace the ejector pin

http://img.skitch.com/20091005-fg2jwpqwgwpjf9ids4x3jmxks3.jpg

Any help would be REALLY appreciated.

Thanks,
Sam

Barney Gumble
10-05-2009, 2:16 PM
As for cases hitting me in the face problem, I have no idea. I replaced one of the springs (Spring 1 in photo) in the bolt but I didn't replace the spring on what I now know is the 'ejector', maybe that'd help?


Wear a hat.

Shizam
10-05-2009, 2:36 PM
Hah,
I tried that but my cap didn't go low enough, I'd need a stocking cap :) Plus ever time I pull the trigger part of my flinches anticipating a shell to the face which tends to throw off accuracy :p

Sam

Barney Gumble
10-05-2009, 3:05 PM
Wow, I guess you weren't kidding when you said "in the face"...I assumed you meant your head! Doh!

Iknownot
10-05-2009, 3:09 PM
Things to check on a carbine:

First and formost: Magazines. Try to use some USGI magazines with your Carbine, that you know to feed properly and see if your problem goes away.

Aftermarket Carbine mags just seem to be really hit or miss on if they work or not. Only fulton armory 10 rounders seem to work with any regularity.

If it's not your magazines, then I would just get a new recoil spring, new ejector spring, and new extractor spring. Replace those parts, clean the carbine well, oil everything up and then try it.

I bet your problem goes away.

Shizam
10-05-2009, 3:11 PM
Yea, I have about 20 red scabbed dents in my forehead above my right eye which I endured over an hour while trying to figure out the cause of the problem :p If I hunker down such that my cheek is against the butt of the rifle and the stock is barely braced against my shoulder then they fly over my head but its uncomfortable and really really low.

Shizam
10-05-2009, 3:13 PM
Things to check on a carbine:

First and formost: Magazines. Try to use some USGI magazines with your Carbine, that you know to feed properly and see if your problem goes away.

Aftermarket Carbine mags just seem to be really hit or miss on if they work or not. Only fulton armory 10 rounders seem to work with any regularity.

If it's not your magazines, then I would just get a new recoil spring, new ejector spring, and new extractor spring. Replace those parts, clean the carbine well, oil everything up and then try it.

I bet your problem goes away.

I do have some USGI magazines but the edges that keep the mag in place seem a bit warn on them so I'm going to try to find some 'new' mags. I have replaced the ejector spring and extractor spring, haven't replaced the recoil spring, I'll give that a go. I always clean and oil after use but use is few and far between so maybe I should try giving a light once over with cleaning oil before use once.

Sam

Iknownot
10-05-2009, 3:19 PM
Well, if you haven't replaced the recoil spring, that's definitely the next possible culprit on your list, besides magazines. Good luck.

five.five-six
10-05-2009, 3:20 PM
Yea, I have about 20 red scabbed dents in my forehead above my right eye which I endured over an hour while trying to figure out the cause of the problem :p If I hunker down such that my cheek is against the butt of the rifle and the stock is barely braced against my shoulder then they fly over my head but its uncomfortable and really really low.

pics or it didn't happen :D

Iknownot
10-05-2009, 3:28 PM
BTW, the one other thing it could be is perhaps your gas port/piston isn't functioning properly. Perhaps it is loose or malfunctioning somehow. If you run out of things to look at, that would be one of the last.

Josh3239
10-05-2009, 3:57 PM
http://i43.tinypic.com/v4tg5y.jpg

B Strong
10-05-2009, 4:03 PM
Well, if you haven't replaced the recoil spring, that's definitely the next possible culprit on your list, besides magazines. Good luck.

+1 - M1 Carbine recoil springs are the root of most evil in the carbine.

Put in a new RS and try GI mags, I bet your problem will be solved.

Shizam
10-05-2009, 4:09 PM
http://i43.tinypic.com/v4tg5y.jpg

Hah,
I stand corrected. I think I made this misstep in my last post too.

Sailormilan2
10-06-2009, 6:24 AM
The later versions of the Slide, Types 5 and 6, have the area that is next to the front of the receiver angled to eject the brass at a different angle. Helps in preventing brass from bouncing off your head and face.
http://www.geocities.com/sailormilan2/M1CarbineSlide.JPG

Shizam
10-06-2009, 10:23 AM
The later versions of the Slide, Types 5 and 6, have the area that is next to the front of the receiver angled to eject the brass at a different angle. Helps in preventing brass from bouncing off your head and face.
http://www.geocities.com/sailormilan2/M1CarbineSlide.JPG

Heeeeey now, that looks very promising! How do I determine which type 5 slide is the right one, I see several options:

http://home.att.net/~ra-carbines/parts4.html

I've heard several people say 'I've replaced everything with Winchester', so is Winchester the way to go as I replace parts?
Thanks,
Sam

RAMCHARGER
10-06-2009, 11:50 AM
OK what "magazines" are you using now???
30 rounders will cause issues.

rjf
10-06-2009, 12:11 PM
The feeding issue may be caused by a weak mag spring. Or the spring may be installed backwards. The front of the follower needs to be on the top of the high bend of the spring. The OAL of the rounds may also cause the feeding problems. You may want to try a different brand of ammo.

The brass ejection direction can be inproved by replacing your flat (no) deflector (your pic) oprod with an angled deflector (later post pic) oprod. Also the shape of the ejector can cause this problem. There are three? shapes.

rjf
10-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Riverbank armory has a poor rep. Try the CMP carbine forum for additional info. Someone there may want to trade a late oprod for your early oprod for the cost of shipping.

dfletcher
10-06-2009, 12:32 PM
There's a great article on the CMP site regarding magazines. One of the things I learned is that the distance between the top of the magazine (the opening where the bolt will pick up the casing) to the two notches on the rear of the magazine should be exactly 1.5". If less that 1.5" the mag sits too low and you get the jam described in picture 1.

Also, Brownells sells a $5.00 tool for rebending magazine feed lips, might be worth it to try and save some of your other mags.

Shizam
10-06-2009, 1:25 PM
Thanks guys, lots-a good info. I'll measure my 10 rnd mags and pick up that lip bender. Still wondering if there is a certain type (Winchester etc) of slide that I need/should buy.

God Bless The Mauser
10-06-2009, 1:31 PM
I have a similar problem in mine and never really solved it. I replaced the ejector spring, extractor and recoil spring, cleaned the chamber, used GI mags and cleaned the gas piston and still have the issue but not as much.

Sailormilan2
10-06-2009, 3:38 PM
The Type 5 & 6 slides will have the shape like in the picture. The difference between the two, is that the Type 6 has the full auto cam on the front where the long "rail" connects to the "box".
Top slide is a Type 5, bottom slide is a Type 6. Even though the Type 6 was desiged for the full auto M2, it is legal to use on a Carbine. Only two companies made the Type 5 & three made the Type 6 slides. Type 5, Inland marked PI or PI 7160091 or Winchester Type 5 marked W or W 7160091. Type 6, Inland marked PI 7161843, Winchester W 7161843, or Saginaw Gear marked SG 7161843.. Post war slides may be marked with only 7161843 or SA or HSA.
There were also changes in the caming surfaces on the bolts introduced with the Type 5. This allowed to slide to move farther before unlocking the bolt to reduce breech flash and improve extraction.
This Type 6 slide is unmarked. Possibly a repro. The Type 5 is a Winchester.
http://www.geocities.com/sailormilan2/M1CarbineSlide2.JPG

Shizam
10-06-2009, 3:52 PM
Thanks for the extra data. So can I use any Type 5 or Type 6 slide on my gun or do I have to get a specific manufacturer and how do I tell which one I need.

Sailormilan2
10-06-2009, 3:58 PM
All carbine parts are interchangable between the manufacturors. Any Type 5 or 6 slide should work.

Shizam
10-06-2009, 4:02 PM
Great! How much do you want for your Winchester? :D

Shizam
10-10-2009, 3:28 PM
Woot!
Changing the slide to a Type V fixed the shells-in-the-face problem 100%, now they fly off back and to the right. As for jamming I took a pliers to a couple of the USGI mags I have and opened up the lips a little so the bullets come out easier. This really improved the situation (jamming % went way down), now it'll still jam sometimes but on the last or 2nd to last bullet because they come out too easily, gotta tweak it.

Thanks guys!

Sam