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wombat303
10-05-2009, 11:42 AM
Hello all you legally minded folks,

A co-worker of mine was gifted a shotgun from a family friend in an off-the-books PPT. He knows nothing about gun laws and wanted to make sure everything was legal. Based on my limited understanding, if he wanted to keep it, the simplest thing to do would be to call ahead and register it at a police station. At that point, it is codified as his property.
If he wanted to sell it, he would not need to register it, but simply go to an FFL and do the standard DROS + Transfer Fee, all of which the buyer would pay. He does not know the history of the firearm beyond that it was given to him.

Question 1: Does gifting a firearm require DROS at an FFL to transfer as the firearm was not Sold, but Transferred. (No?)

Question 2: If the firearm was sold/transferred before, outside of the boundaries of the legal way to do things, will Registering or DROS@FFL suffice to get it back on the right side of the law. (Yes?)

Question 3: If there was a red flag in the firearms history, and we donít know anything about its history before it was gifted, would he be in any sort of trouble if he did the right thing by showing up to register/DROS it. (Worst case, taken away?)

Thanks for your time and wisdom.

wash
10-05-2009, 12:30 PM
My advice is do not register it.

If it was gifted before the PPT rule went in to effect, it's legal, no problem.

If it was gifted after the PPT rule, that transfer was illegal.

If that question ever came up in court, the burden of proof is on the court, so they might never be able to prove any wrongdoing.

If it's a crime gun, and he registers or tries to transfer it, he might get screwed.

If he wants to clean up an illegal transfer, find the original owner and get them together for a PPT.

Since the original transaction wasn't quite legal, act like it never happened and do it again the right way.

bwiese
10-05-2009, 1:12 PM
If the gun was transferred btwn parties (who were both CA residents and within CA at the time) , before Jan 1 1991, then the transfer was legal providing the gun was legal, not stolen, etc. No paperwork was required.

It would be ludicrous (and perjurious) to assert the above if the firearm was in fact manufactured very close to and certainly after that date (1/1/91).

DOJ has in the past somewhat looked aside for folks that didn't know the law yet when they found out about the issue, wanted to 'clear the books' by filing a voluntary registration. If the transfer happened quite a few years ago, all the better (statute of limitations).

bigcalidave
10-05-2009, 1:36 PM
But if it was a shotgun there should be no paper trail anyways, correct?
Or should we not believe that non handgun transactions are tossed out once cleared?

pullnshoot25
10-05-2009, 2:10 PM
There is no paper trail. I say to just say "oops" and just be more careful.

Mitch
10-05-2009, 2:55 PM
How do you register a long gun?

If it was me (and it has been, on one occasion), I'd just go down to an FFL with my friend and process the transaction as a PPT. That cleans things up.

I'd never register a long gun. No point to it.

wombat303
10-05-2009, 11:18 PM
So here's what I've learned so far from these posts:

1: YES. You need to DROS is. It doesn't matter whether it was a Gift/Sale. The firearm is important. The money is irrelevant. This was all within the last decade, out of scope for those dates.

2: YES. Doing the right thing will get it back on track. Technically you are in the wrong, but its like filing your taxes a day late. At least you paid them and a day isn't worth raising a fuss over. They have bigger problems.

3: Unfortunately, no one seems to know what to do with this one. I doubt an over/under is a crime gun, but he has no idea of its history. The gifter is apparently not the original owner so its a big black hole. I've no desire to see him get jacked for doing the right thing, but I would like to see more people doing the right thing. I'm going to ask at a few gun stores to see what the prevailing wisdom is there.

Thanks for your posts guys, any more wisdom to be shared?

unusedusername
10-05-2009, 11:25 PM
I'd just go down to an FFL with my friend and process the transaction as a PPT

:iagree:

Also a point 4:
Loaning of a firearm in CA has a time-limit. I believe it is 30 days. You didn't borrow it for longer then that unless you are admitting to a crime.

Mitch
10-06-2009, 6:46 AM
3: Unfortunately, no one seems to know what to do with this one. I doubt an over/under is a crime gun, but he has no idea of its history. The gifter is apparently not the original owner so its a big black hole. I've no desire to see him get jacked for doing the right thing, but I would like to see more people doing the right thing. I'm going to ask at a few gun stores to see what the prevailing wisdom is there.

Is the friend no longer around?

If he's available, just have the two of them do the PPT. There are no questions asked.