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velocedue
10-04-2009, 8:54 PM
I have had a California CCW issued in San Diego County for 38 years. I originally was approved because I am a dentist but the reason given on the CCW was "Self protection". I have also been a member of the San Diego Honorary Deputy Sheriff's Association for 15 years. Last March, after taking the safety course and firing for Proficiency and doing extremely well, (I used to shoot competitively), the clerk in the relicensing division would not renew my CCW. The reason she stated was that because I had retired during the year I could no longer show a sufficient reason to have a CCW. She recommended that I not try to go any higher than her since it would do no good and then I would have a "Denied" on my record instead of just a "Not renewed". So I am now without the right and means to protect myself and my family.
Does anyone have any suggestions about how to get this decision reversed? We have a new, temporarily appointed sheriff but I have heard he is anti CCW. Any info on that?:mad:

badhabit90
10-04-2009, 9:17 PM
so i would have asked her what is the definition of the "not renewed" as versus the "denied" in her eyes.??? so whos decision was it to NOT renew you??? hers??? isnt there a process of appeal?? sounds like a clerk just trying to make something of herself and say "to try to go any higher than me" is terrible....good luck.

MP301
10-04-2009, 10:39 PM
im thinking that you might be the perfect plaintiff for some legal action. Contact the 2a attornies here on Calguns

Spade421
10-04-2009, 11:29 PM
wow I'd be pissed just because your retired doesn't mean you shouldn't have the right to protect yourself with a firearm especially after doing so for that many years !

Blademan21
10-05-2009, 7:16 AM
I have had a California CCW issued in San Diego County for 38 years. I originally was approved because I am a dentist but the reason given on the CCW was "Self protection". I have also been a member of the San Diego Honorary Deputy Sheriff's Association for 15 years. Last March, after taking the safety course and firing for Proficiency and doing extremely well, (I used to shoot competitively), the clerk in the relicensing division would not renew my CCW. The reason she stated was that because I had retired during the year I could no longer show a sufficient reason to have a CCW. She recommended that I not try to go any higher than her since it would do no good and then I would have a "Denied" on my record instead of just a "Not renewed". So I am now without the right and means to protect myself and my family.
Does anyone have any suggestions about how to get this decision reversed? We have a new, temporarily appointed sheriff but I have heard he is anti CCW. Any info on that?:mad:


Are you still a Honorary Deputy? If so,you should contact your coordinater and see if that office can help fix this mess. Hope you got her name cause if sure sounds fishy. Good luck and keep us posted.

JaMail
10-05-2009, 9:30 AM
even though you shouldnt have to, go to a doctor placement company and tellt hem your your available for 1 day a year, as long as your medical license is in good standing your a practicing doctor and get your CCW back.

CSACANNONEER
10-05-2009, 9:35 AM
It sound like the clerk is able to make decissions? Why? And, why did she not want you to go any higher? Something just does not sound right.


To play devil's advocate. IF you never used a gun in the 38 years you carried one, why would you still feel the need to be allowed to carry? If you need a gun, just call the police. :rolleyes:

OK, contact an attorney and fight for your right to protect yourself and your family.

cmonk518
10-05-2009, 10:20 AM
I have also been a member of the San Diego Honorary Deputy Sheriff's Association for 15 years.
Does anyone have any suggestions about how to get this decision reversed? We have a new, temporarily appointed sheriff but I have heard he is anti CCW. Any info on that?:mad:

Since you are in an honorary sheriff's association, you should know some higher-ups or actual top brass that may help you fix the situation or at least direct you to the CCW Coordinator for your county.

I have some suspicions, in this climate, that you being in an honorary sheriff's association may actually hurt more than help. Slowly in our area, LASD, OCSD, Riverside, and SBSD have quietly been revoking lots of guns, badges, ccw, etc. from people belonging to these associations since a majority of them are all huge campaign donors and they no longer want that conflict of interest. It's been a huge issue recently with Sheriffs in S. CA forming committees, advisory councils, and honorary associations just so they can give their friends and/or campaign donors guns and badges.

It may have reached your county given the bad implications and all...

MrClamperSir
10-05-2009, 11:26 AM
That's not right. I wish you luck and let us know how this ends.

Wonderwhippet
10-05-2009, 11:33 AM
Who told her you were retired?

Blademan21
10-05-2009, 1:04 PM
Since you are in an honorary sheriff's association, you should know some higher-ups or actual top brass that may help you fix the situation or at least direct you to the CCW Coordinator for your county.

I have some suspicions, in this climate, that you being in an honorary sheriff's association may actually hurt more than help. Slowly in our area, LASD, OCSD, Riverside, and SBSD have quietly been revoking lots of guns, badges, ccw, etc. from people belonging to these associations since a majority of them are all huge campaign donors and they no longer want that conflict of interest. It's been a huge issue recently with Sheriffs in S. CA forming committees, advisory councils, and honorary associations just so they can give their friends and/or campaign donors guns and badges.

It may have reached your county given the bad implications and all...


And you know this is happening for a fact? I know lots of people that belong to these types of groups in San Bernardino County and this is news to me. They have never been given "guns" as you state. I say unless you can prove your statement it is FUD.

strangerdude
10-05-2009, 1:08 PM
File a Lawsuit, those 38 years of ccw will help you.

nicki
10-05-2009, 1:41 PM
It is unfortunate your CCW permit was not renewed, this is what happens with May Issue systems when your "Good Cause" is no longer considered "Good Enough".

Your problem is similar to what is going on up in Orange county where I believe the sheriff revoked about one thousand permits similar to what you are going through.

Perhaps you can schedule an appointment with the current Sheriff and make an appeal directly to him, that would be your most cost effective and quickest course of action.

Others have posted you should file a lawsuit.

I feel that if you are considering doing that, you would get a better bang for your buck by making a large directed donation to the Calguns foundation.

The directed donations of course would be for the MacDonald case(Incorporation) and the Sykes case(Cal CCW).

All the sheriff candidates except Gore indicate they support shall issue

San Diego as well as most of the state should be "equal issue" by Jan 2011 either by court order, election of sheriffs who will issue or both.

We will probably have hold out counties such as Alameda, Contra Costa, San Francisco, Santa Clara, LA, San Mateo and Marin that will require court action to force compliance.

I know it sucks that you will be stripped of armed protection for at least another 18 months and I wish I could give you a better prognosis, but that
is the way it is.

Nicki

cmonk518
10-05-2009, 2:34 PM
And you know this is happening for a fact? I know lots of people that belong to these types of groups in San Bernardino County and this is news to me. They have never been given "guns" as you state. I say unless you can prove your statement it is FUD.

If you are from the LA area, I'm more than sure if you read the newspapers in the last five years, look at how MANY campaign donors have had their guns, badges, and CCW permits revoked.

In LA County, they were handing out so many guns and badges to donors and friends that CA POST revoked their Reserve program since more than 70 didn't go thru background or psyche tests.

Just google up the son and heir to Zachary farms and you'll find out his stupidity in the Executive Reserve Program and many other idiots in there. Google up homeland security advisory councils for LASD and look at how many people got into trouble.

Everybody in LA already knows the joke: Just donate $5000 to a county Sheriff and you might just get a CCW.

I don't have to get in OCSD, thats already all over the news about giving out guns and badges on LaTimes.com. Don't you remember the reserve martial arts instructor for SBSD who was part of the sheriff's advisory council that took out his gun and badge out on a golf course and threatened to shoot golfers for slowing up his game.

Alot of people who don't deserve guns, badges, and CCW permits all got them thru shady means of Sheriffs setting up councils and comittees. So many real reserves and deputies were so mad that alot of these campaign donors were getting guns and badges within 10-15 weeks of being in some non-sanction POST academy, not going to legitimate academy courses, no psyche, physicals, or drug testing. Real reserves take up to almost two years to complete their entire training and these guys were getting guns and badges within months of donating campaign money.

AndrewMendez
10-05-2009, 3:35 PM
Why not go back to work 2 hrs a week?

B.D.Dubloon
10-05-2009, 4:22 PM
That sucks, sorry to hear that.

What would be the grounds for the lawsuit that people are advocating? Isn't it up the SO's discretion to grant ccw's?

Boxer
10-05-2009, 7:33 PM
You may want to post a thread here : http://www.calccw.com/Forums/ and ask for some help. Keep the reasons for "Good Cause" for a CCW off the thread as it is not acceptable on that forum.

Talk in broad terms about that and see who can help you reword your CCW application. They are pretty sharp on that forum when it comes to CCW matters.

It would be better to get your CCW than get into a lawsuit.

velocedue
10-05-2009, 7:43 PM
I am trying to contact the president of the Honorary Deputy sheriffs Assn just to see if he can give me any advice here. I've not heard anything about culling the CCWs of the members of the association. I'll ask. I don't want to consider legal action, thanks.
I told the clerk that I was retired because I was supposed to. I was obeying the rules. I tend to do that kind of thing. That's probably what makes me a good candidate for a CCW, but you wouldn't know it by the response I got. We will have elections for a new sheriff in 2010. I think I will also work to elect a candidate with a better approach to concealed carry.
As far as the devils advocate, I noticed on one of the other posts in the forum that most of the respondants had never even had to present their weapon. That's fine with me. I have never had to use my life insurance either. But I have it.:(

sfpcservice
10-06-2009, 8:33 AM
make them do the paperwork, push the application passed her. She told you not too in hopes you would heed her "warning". What she really said was "don't make a big deal out of this and just go away."

A CCW Denial for lack of good cause means nothing as far as your "record" goes. Don't buy into the intimidation. Push Push Push!

paul0660
10-06-2009, 10:07 AM
I believe the CCW application has a box to check if you have ever been "denied" a permit. In this case I doubt that would matter much.

cmonk518
10-06-2009, 10:21 AM
I am trying to contact the president of the Honorary Deputy sheriffs Assn just to see if he can give me any advice here. I've not heard anything about culling the CCWs of the members of the association.

You know who you should contact? Team Billy Jack and his team will definitely know all the ins and outs of why you probably got denied. He probably has more up-to-date accurate information on most likely why you got denied and who you could talk to.

If anything, he's definitely familiar with all the commitees, associations, and advisory councils that were set up statewide in CA that were basically wink wink buddy systems to hand out badges, guns, and/or ccw permits to friends and campaign donors.

You should check out his website and blog. You'll definitely get a taste of how the rich and elite in CA can so easily get ccw permits with hardly any paperwork, background checks, etc. You'll be appalled at how unfair the system is.

Harley Quinn
10-06-2009, 10:44 AM
I have a feeling it is bigger than just you.

Sheriff is the problem, check around and see what others have experienced that you know, who ccw.

You are another who is not in the same position as originally issued and someone mentioned retired...
That means you have changed and so has your reason for ccw, it looks like???

Many have moved to AZ, for less reason.

Good luck,
Regards

fleegman
10-08-2009, 8:28 PM
So I am now without the right and means to protect myself and my family.

Ever heard of the 2nd amendment? Just sayin'...

CCWUSA
10-18-2009, 9:26 PM
You have to understand the process for CCW in San Diego County. The HDSA does not help you get a CCW Permit. The HDSA is made up primarily of Successful Business Owners, that contribute to the Sheriff's Department, Sheriff's Museum, and help support local Law Enforcement by maintaining Duffy's Town, and providing necessary equipment and upgrades that would not be available under the current budget cuts. They do not go into the pocket of the Sheriff! They help support the entire Department. (Yes, I am a Member)

The real issue is that your "Good Cause" even back when John Duffy was Sheriff, was that you were a dentist, and had access to narcotics, and could be at greater risk while making bank deposits, accepting cash, even making house calls. Once you retired, this Specific "Good Cause" was no longer applicable to you. I have had several students refused renewal because they sold their business or retired. You must prove your case for Good Cause each time you nenew your permit, and infact, you are told to notify the Sheriff's Department within 10 days if anything changes on your permit (e.g. Job, Address, etc).

I don't agree with the current process...but it is what it is, until we can change the law or the local process. (As suggested in previous posts) I would agree that not retiring, or going back to work may be an option if you want to keep your permit. There is an appeals process, but the fact that you had the permit for a long time, and never misused the "privilege" does not make your case. You must show "Good Cause" that places you at greater risk of criminal attack that the average Joe, and that "Good Cause" must be supported by any necessary licensing, business licenses, Medical Licenses, etc.

Good Luck!!!

Harley Quinn
10-19-2009, 7:32 AM
CCWUSA,
Nice post, good accurate info IMHO...Reasonable to be honest, in this climate.

Thanks.

dustoff31
10-19-2009, 8:43 AM
You have to understand the process for CCW in San Diego County. The HDSA does not help you get a CCW Permit. The HDSA is made up primarily of Successful Business Owners, that contribute to the Sheriff's Department, Sheriff's Museum, and help support local Law Enforcement by maintaining Duffy's Town, and providing necessary equipment and upgrades that would not be available under the current budget cuts. They do not go into the pocket of the Sheriff! They help support the entire Department. (Yes, I am a Member)

The real issue is that your "Good Cause" even back when John Duffy was Sheriff, was that you were a dentist, and had access to narcotics, and could be at greater risk while making bank deposits, accepting cash, even making house calls. Once you retired, this Specific "Good Cause" was no longer applicable to you. I have had several students refused renewal because they sold their business or retired. You must prove your case for Good Cause each time you nenew your permit, and infact, you are told to notify the Sheriff's Department within 10 days if anything changes on your permit (e.g. Job, Address, etc).

I don't agree with the current process...but it is what it is, until we can change the law or the local process. (As suggested in previous posts) I would agree that not retiring, or going back to work may be an option if you want to keep your permit. There is an appeals process, but the fact that you had the permit for a long time, and never misused the "privilege" does not make your case. You must show "Good Cause" that places you at greater risk of criminal attack that the average Joe, and that "Good Cause" must be supported by any necessary licensing, business licenses, Medical Licenses, etc.

Good Luck!!!

This is all fine, but where does the law provide for a clerk to make such decisions. As I recall, the CLEO is the person who exercises the descretion.

As I read the OP, the clerk would not even accept his renewal application. If she did, she certainly had no authority to disapprove it. I'm pretty sure there are grounds for some type legal action there.

calixt0
10-19-2009, 9:19 AM
You have to understand the process for CCW in San Diego County. The HDSA does not help you get a CCW Permit. The HDSA is made up primarily of Successful Business Owners, that contribute to the Sheriff's Department, Sheriff's Museum, and help support local Law Enforcement by maintaining Duffy's Town, and providing necessary equipment and upgrades that would not be available under the current budget cuts. They do not go into the pocket of the Sheriff! They help support the entire Department. (Yes, I am a Member)

The real issue is that your "Good Cause" even back when John Duffy was Sheriff, was that you were a dentist, and had access to narcotics, and could be at greater risk while making bank deposits, accepting cash, even making house calls. Once you retired, this Specific "Good Cause" was no longer applicable to you. I have had several students refused renewal because they sold their business or retired. You must prove your case for Good Cause each time you nenew your permit, and infact, you are told to notify the Sheriff's Department within 10 days if anything changes on your permit (e.g. Job, Address, etc).

I don't agree with the current process...but it is what it is, until we can change the law or the local process. (As suggested in previous posts) I would agree that not retiring, or going back to work may be an option if you want to keep your permit. There is an appeals process, but the fact that you had the permit for a long time, and never misused the "privilege" does not make your case. You must show "Good Cause" that places you at greater risk of criminal attack that the average Joe, and that "Good Cause" must be supported by any necessary licensing, business licenses, Medical Licenses, etc.

Good Luck!!!

I don't intend to hijack this thread but have a quick question. I have been disabled due the the symptoms of my ms (mostly chronic fatigue) and the medication i'm given is a class three stimulant (amphetimine salts). My doctor can't even give me more than a 30 day supply or give me refills. Would access to these medications on a good cause?

If so maybe the op dentist may still have some of these narcotics in his household (legally of course, wife is on them for chronic pain, etc) and would accordingly still give him good cause.

CCWUSA
10-20-2009, 8:18 AM
Unlikely.

Having access via personal prescription is much different than being a Dr./Dentist and having large amounts of medications available for patients. Also, who knows that you have those meds? Dr's and Dentists have been targeted because the bad guys know they have these meds, normally in larger quantities.

CCWUSA
10-20-2009, 8:23 AM
The clerk doesn't really "make the decision" They have been given a set of known parameters, or a checklist of sorts. If people have all of the items on the list, then they go forward with the process. If they are missing a key component, such as the "Legitimate Business Need" then the clerk would advise the applicant that they do not qualify for a license. You can always ask to speak with a supervisor, but if you no longer have that "Good Cause" for the permit that you had for 38 years...you will probably get the same answer. :(

I wish I had a better answer...and I wish "Protection of Human Life" was Good Cause, like it is in so many other States.

Ron-Solo
10-20-2009, 9:59 AM
This is all fine, but where does the law provide for a clerk to make such decisions. As I recall, the CLEO is the person who exercises the descretion.

As I read the OP, the clerk would not even accept his renewal application. If she did, she certainly had no authority to disapprove it. I'm pretty sure there are grounds for some type legal action there.

In most cases the CLEO delegates the responsibility to subordinates who process applications based on policy established by the CLEO.

Do you really think the Sheriff of LA County (or any other county for that matter) really reviews all CCW applications? If so, you are living in a fantasy world.

CCWUSA had an excellent post on this subject.

ddindetroit
12-31-2009, 9:01 PM
You have to understand the process for CCW in San Diego County. The HDSA does not help you get a CCW Permit. The HDSA is made up primarily of Successful Business Owners, that contribute to the Sheriff's Department, Sheriff's Museum, and help support local Law Enforcement by maintaining Duffy's Town, and providing necessary equipment and upgrades that would not be available under the current budget cuts. They do not go into the pocket of the Sheriff! They help support the entire Department. (Yes, I am a Member)

The real issue is that your "Good Cause" even back when John Duffy was Sheriff, was that you were a dentist, and had access to narcotics, and could be at greater risk while making bank deposits, accepting cash, even making house calls. Once you retired, this Specific "Good Cause" was no longer applicable to you. I have had several students refused renewal because they sold their business or retired. You must prove your case for Good Cause each time you nenew your permit, and infact, you are told to notify the Sheriff's Department within 10 days if anything changes on your permit (e.g. Job, Address, etc).

I don't agree with the current process...but it is what it is, until we can change the law or the local process. (As suggested in previous posts) I would agree that not retiring, or going back to work may be an option if you want to keep your permit. There is an appeals process, but the fact that you had the permit for a long time, and never misused the "privilege" does not make your case. You must show "Good Cause" that places you at greater risk of criminal attack that the average Joe, and that "Good Cause" must be supported by any necessary licensing, business licenses, Medical Licenses, etc.

Good Luck!!!


This is well said and my understanding of CCW laws in many other states as well.

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/ddindetroit/KernCountySheriff.jpg

ddindetroit

juicemansam
01-07-2010, 8:49 AM
My questions are:

would have the CCW been renewed should the OP not retired, with the temporary Sheriff being anti-CCW?
could the clerk have, under instructions to not renew CCWs, purposefully spared the OP the "denied" status during the temporary Sheriff's reign, until a permanent Sheriff arrived (as stated in the OP; could have been a warning or a threat; a warning could equate to "come back under favorable circumstances")?
what was the clerks attitude?

The way the above questions play out in my head is that, if you're denied, you pretty much can't get it, period. So a "not renewed" looks like the applicant decided to not renew it, and therefore can reapply when circumstances are favorable for the application.

nitrofc
01-07-2010, 9:42 AM
If you like the Beach and retired.....check out Brookings Oregon.
Nice place to live....awesome Ocean views and great Fishing.

My Father in Law just obtained his CWW in Oregon..He's 72.
Moved there 5 years ago after spending his entire life in Los Angeles.
Say's he's never going back.

GuyW
01-07-2010, 7:17 PM
We have a new, temporarily appointed sheriff but I have heard he is anti CCW. Any info on that?:mad:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=222042&highlight=ruby

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=167834&highlight=ruby

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=175914&highlight=ruby

Support Jay La Suer for Sheriff...

.

1st5
01-23-2010, 9:12 AM
I like nitroFC's idea...hey, you're retired. You can move to a free state if you chose to. That's my plan...maybe even before I retire! Or...move to Fresno, Kern, or Mendocino Counties! They are as close to shall issue as you can get in this state.