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=Mike=
10-04-2009, 4:29 PM
Hi, new to AR's, guns some what, but have learned alot here.

But now I have a question that I cant find an answer to.

My build

CMMG lower
Cardinal upper with a wilson barrel, regular cast front sight, SS, heavy, 16" carbine, 1/8 twist, 5.56 chamber, A2 flash hider. [bought off an online auction, said to be LMT built new]
4 rail free float
CAA removable carry handle
VLTOR clubfoot mil spec tube and but stock [which WAS very loose/sloppy]

The upper I bought had been test fired, but I know it was not fired with the upper, bolt, and carrier that came with the barrel. no wear or soot in the upper, only barrel.
There were also clamp marks on the barrel in front of the sights, which I just figured was from a custom build that backed out, which would explain the line above.
I also see wear on the back of the barrel were the bolt hits, which make me think it new.

Broke it in, 1 shot, clean, 3 shots clean, 5 clean, 10 clean, also used barnes copper remover. first 120 rounds.

BUT, next 220 rounds, at 25 yards, iron sights, resting on a large rock, 2 shots within .25 inches, a 3rd 1.6 inches away from the first two. This happened almost the same, 4 times.
Pull out the SKS, wolf and brown bear ammo, and get better groups.
At 100 to 150 yards the sks hits more often what im aiming at.
Seems im getting 1 out of 3 stray rounds, or more. But no key holes.

I fired 3 different brands, american eagle, winchester, pmc, and some no name 5.56, and 2 different grains of ammo, 55 and 62, no difference.

After the $ I spent on it, I have to know wtf is going on, hopefully without going through another 200+ rounds [$100+], or buying a new barrel.

So if anyone can give me some direction, advice, even if its bad,like, wilson barrels suck, you bought a wore out barrel, or you're a crappy shot,
what ever, I dont care, just have to know. THANKS.

tomd1584
10-04-2009, 5:01 PM
your barrel is mad at your for cleaning it so much.

=Mike=
10-04-2009, 6:24 PM
Lol, g, thanks. Then I guess I made things worse by cleaning again after posting.

SkatinJJ
10-04-2009, 6:46 PM
You can either try again, possibly with the same results.

Or, you can take it to a gunsmith to have it checked out. It may be worth the $$ and frustration.

Good luck,

JJ

sevensix2x51
10-04-2009, 7:24 PM
is your carry handle tight? could it be walking around on the rail?

nrakid88
10-04-2009, 7:30 PM
is your carry handle tight? could it be walking around on the rail?

+1 on this

Bud Fox
10-04-2009, 7:40 PM
+1 on this

Had the same darn thing happen with a loose sight, it was definitely a Homer Simpsons moment. DOH.

=Mike=
10-05-2009, 8:59 AM
Took it in and had the barrel checked, looks good.

Checked the handle again, good and tight, done that one myself too on the sks, [bolt cover scope] talk about feeling stupid, im not about to say how many rounds I went through till I figured it out.

Something I thought of this morning, I was using synthetic 20/50 on the upper, while I was there I asked if that could be getting in the barrel and causing it, he said maybe.

So, different oil, less cleaning, and back to the range next weekend.

THANKS for the help.

Bud Fox
10-05-2009, 9:29 AM
Took it in and had the barrel checked, looks good.

Checked the handle again, good and tight, done that one myself too on the sks, [bolt cover scope] talk about feeling stupid, im not about to say how many rounds I went through till I figured it out.

Something I thought of this morning, I was using synthetic 20/50 on the upper, while I was there I asked if that could be getting in the barrel and causing it, he said maybe.

So, different oil, less cleaning, and back to the range next weekend.

THANKS for the help.

I hear that Hoppe's Teflon spray is the ticket, but I haven't tried it myself. However I think I'll order some today.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_34268_400004011_400000000_400004000__?hvar Target=browse&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=4&CMID=&hvarDept=400&pageView=image&hvarTextId=34268&hvarSubCode=11&jumpToPage=1&currentPage=0

50deuce
10-05-2009, 10:59 AM
Sounds like too much oil in the barrel! Before shooting, run a clean cloth through the barrel or send a round down range before shooting at a target. That way, it can remove the oil inside the barrel... Basically, you don't want any oil in the barrel - it's good to oil the barrel when its in storage...

Also, check your fundamental by asking yourself i.e. are you pulling it instead of squeezing it? is your breathing consistence? did you relive your original eye sight (losing your eye relief sight can effect the location of impact)...

Jicko
10-05-2009, 11:22 AM
Cardinal upper with a wilson barrel, regular cast front sight, SS, heavy, 16" carbine, 1/8 twist, 5.56 chamber, A2 flash hider. [bought off an online auction, said to be LMT built new]


LMT using Wilson barrel? hmmmm

Any LMT marking on the upper?

Maybe you can contact LMT for warranty service.

ALSO, what ammo are you using?

=Mike=
10-05-2009, 11:55 AM
Sounds like too much oil in the barrel! Before shooting, run a clean cloth through the barrel or send a round down range before shooting at a target. That way, it can remove the oil inside the barrel... Basically, you don't want any oil in the barrel - it's good to oil the barrel when its in storage...

Also, check your fundamental by asking yourself i.e. are you pulling it instead of squeezing it? is your breathing consistence? did you relive your original eye sight (losing your eye relief sight can effect the location of impact)...


I dont think there was any excess oil in the barrel, but I'll make sure next time there isnt.

Squeezing yes, breathing yes, eye relief no. just watched a vid on that and forgot about it, thx. Im probably just pulling noob crap and pointing my finger at the gun.

=Mike=
10-05-2009, 12:07 PM
LMT using Wilson barrel? hmmmm

Any LMT marking on the upper?

Maybe you can contact LMT for warranty service.

ALSO, what ammo are you using?


No LMT markings, just the cardinal symbol that I read somewhere LMT uses.

Ammo was winchester 5.56 55gr
american eagle 5.56 55gr
some no name 5.56 55gr
cant find the box, but some 5.56 62gr
And some .223 55gr

All seemed to do the same.

technique
10-05-2009, 12:12 PM
Never once seen a Cardinal forge mark on an LMT....EVER.

LMT forges their own ****...there is no reason they would ever use someone else's forgings.

=Mike=
10-05-2009, 12:42 PM
Never once seen a Cardinal forge mark on an LMT....EVER.

LMT forges their own ****...there is no reason they would ever use someone else's forgings.


You got me scared, so I went looking.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=701752

Scroll down for photos. Mine doesnt have the LMT etch, just cardinal.

technique
10-05-2009, 12:51 PM
You got me scared, so I went looking.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=701752

Scroll down for photos. Mine doesnt have the LMT etch, just cardinal.

Interesting....wonder why? Even so...most Cardinal forge marks are not solid like the one pictured, they are hollow.

Every LMT I have ever seen or owned was marked with an "L"

=Mike=
10-05-2009, 6:18 PM
I hear that Hoppe's Teflon spray is the ticket, but I haven't tried it myself. However I think I'll order some today.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_34268_400004011_400000000_400004000__?hvar Target=browse&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=4&CMID=&hvarDept=400&pageView=image&hvarTextId=34268&hvarSubCode=11&jumpToPage=1&currentPage=0


I checked around local, no go, but going to order and try, thx for the link.

ar15barrels
10-06-2009, 9:53 AM
I fired 3 different brands, american eagle, winchester, pmc, and some no name 5.56, and 2 different grains of ammo, 55 and 62, no difference.

Try some good ammo.
All those above are blasting ammo.

If it won't group with Federal 69gr gold medal, it's the barrel.

If you look down the barrel, look at the throat and see if its worn.
You should see the sharp edges of the lands less than 1/16" forward of the end of the case neck.

ar15barrels
10-06-2009, 9:55 AM
No LMT markings, just the cardinal symbol that I read somewhere LMT uses.

That's NOT an LMT upper then.
REAL LMT uppers will all be laser engraved on the left front side of the receiver, just under the rail.

=Mike=
10-06-2009, 1:47 PM
Try some good ammo.
All those above are blasting ammo.

If it won't group with Federal 69gr gold medal, it's the barrel.

If you look down the barrel, look at the throat and see if its worn.
You should see the sharp edges of the lands less than 1/16" forward of the end of the case neck.

Checked the lands, they look good, from what I can tell, they're raised and produce a shadow with an led light at the front of the barrel.
Will look around for, or order some Federal 69gr bend me over expensive gold medal.

The LMT thing sucks, but if I can get this thing to shoot straight, I don't really care. If not, Ive got your web site logged.

Thanks for the info.