PDA

View Full Version : Should I buy a Saiga rifle ( featureless ) or wait a while and buy an AK?


Henry Hill
10-02-2009, 4:35 PM
Was looking at saigas recently and I kindof want one :D Was thinking about picking this one up : http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct782.aspx

Or should I wait a couple months ( or years) and buy a nice AK? Was also thinking about the AK from atlantic arms.. But the saiga is half the price and its just tempting... Money is kind of tight so was wondering if I should just wait a few months and decide ( maybe the prices will go down by then? ...).. But anyone have a Saiga rifle? How do you like it? If i buy one I prob will not convert it ( not very tool-wise - i.e I dont have any tool/building knowledge or a lot of gun knowledge for that matter.. ) What do you guys think?

Henry Hill
10-02-2009, 4:37 PM
Also, any reason to get the 545 x 39 model:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct797.aspx

I am unfamilar with both bullet types/rifle and this would be my first rifle... I dont really see any difference between the two offered rifles except that they take different bullets

djleisure
10-02-2009, 4:44 PM
The unconverted Saiga rifle is a LOT of fun to shoot. Get it in 7.62x39 and don't look back! You can convert it yourself, or have a professional convert it later down the road... Oh and get it soon - the factory that makes them is claiming bankruptcy!! :shock:

510shooter510
10-02-2009, 4:48 PM
I have the same one your looking at. More fun than you realize. If I paid the extra doe for the expensive ak, I think I would shoot myself with it when I found out that I could get two of these saigas. They kick some serious aasss man. Unless features are your sort of thing...(accessories...):confused:

glockwise2000
10-02-2009, 4:49 PM
The unconverted Saiga rifle is a LOT of fun to shoot. Get it in 7.62x39 and don't look back! You can convert it yourself, or have a professional convert it later down the road... Oh and get it soon - the factory that makes them is claiming bankruptcy!! :shock:

+1. 7.62x39 is the way to go and don't look back. You would be happy.

Bankruptcy? did not know that. Saiga is fun to shoot plus you don't have to hassle with maglocks. Magazine drops at your fingertips.

510shooter510
10-02-2009, 4:49 PM
Oh and mr hill: 762x39 is pretty cheap right now, im not sure i would get the 545x39

djleisure
10-02-2009, 4:57 PM
Bankruptcy? did not know that.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,652043,00.html

Yep, not a big deal - I'm guessing they'll find the dough somewhere. The funny thing is that the debt is only US $265,000! I would think one of the many extremely rich Russian Mafia members over there would be able to help out with this for a, uh, vested interest in the company...

Q
10-02-2009, 4:58 PM
Get one, I'd look for one with dimpled mag well.


Seldom seen in Russian service AK-103.
Good enough to protect a former President.:D

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/qbertquartz2/20070527.jpg

Henry Hill
10-02-2009, 5:10 PM
Get one, I'd look for one with dimpled mag well.


What is a dimpled mag?


I was thinking later down the line if i want the pistol grip/everything AK ish i could have someone knowledgeable convert it for me...


Should I wait a couple months to see if the price goes down or is right now the time to buy?

John03
10-02-2009, 5:12 PM
Go for the Saiga in 7.62x39 and just leave the factory stock on it so you can still use detachable mags. Also for a few bucks you can add a bullet guide and use both saiga mags and standard configuration ak mags.

stix213
10-02-2009, 5:14 PM
Also, any reason to get the 545 x 39 model:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct797.aspx

I am unfamilar with both bullet types/rifle and this would be my first rifle... I dont really see any difference between the two offered rifles except that they take different bullets

I want a 5.45x39 model too, but if AB962 passes I don't know where I would find ammo for it. My 7.62x39 Saiga is totally awesome though (in my signature pic) and ammo for it is almost common. Best gun I own by a long shot.

Difference is the 7.62x39 hits harder at close range and does better at destroying cover, but the 5.45x39 is more analogous to the AR's .223/5.56x45 round where it does better at longer range and keeps a flatter path through the air. Like I already mentioned 7.62x39 ammo is more easy to find than 5.45x39, with prices similar, and you can carry more 5.45x39 ammo for the same amount of weight.

If you want to watch stuff explode at 250 yards or less, get the 7.62x39. If you want to have a better chance at hitting beyond 250 yards or so and think you can find an ammo source if AB962 doesn't get veto'd, then I hear 5.45x39 is a great rifle. The .223 and the .308 are also supposed to be great rifles for the money as well. (oh and don't forget the Saiga-12!!! Collect them all!!!) The next Saiga I am planning on getting is a featureless SOCOM styled setup .308 by the way.

With how cheap the Saiga is you really have no excuse not to get one. You can buy some other AK later if you want.

bondmid003
10-02-2009, 5:24 PM
The unconverted Saiga rifle is a LOT of fun to shoot. Get it in 7.62x39 and don't look back! You can convert it yourself, or have a professional convert it later down the road... Oh and get it soon - the factory that makes them is claiming bankruptcy!! :shock:

This is actually a bit of an exaggeration, according to the follow up on this blog: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/ Izmash's debt is in the hundreds of thousands...chump change compared to companies in this country

Q
10-02-2009, 5:26 PM
What is a dimpled mag?


I was thinking later down the line if i want the pistol grip/everything AK ish i could have someone knowledgeable convert it for me...


Should I wait a couple months to see if the price goes down or is right now the time to buy?


You just missed the one I had for sale. It has the dimple above the magazine that keeps the magazine solid. The ones without use a shim inside or you can install one.
It looks better.:)
pics in the link..
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=226647

Henry Hill
10-02-2009, 6:30 PM
You just missed the one I had for sale. It has the dimple above the magazine that keeps the magazine solid. The ones without use a shim inside or you can install one.
It looks better.:)
pics in the link..
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=226647


Where did you buy your saigas? Blane let me know that they offer no discount but free shipping for calgun members. So the total would be 360 + 65 ( transfer and dros) , so I'm looking at a 425 dollar purchase.. Is there anywhere I can get this rifle cheaper online? As I said before money is a little tight at the moment but I really want this rifle!

strangerdude
10-02-2009, 6:33 PM
I have both and prefer the saiga because I can have detachable mags, other than not having a pistol grip It's an AK-47. I have the Saiga IZ 240 (5.45x39), and am able to buy the ammo cheap and use AK-74 mags without doing the mag conversion.

tonelar
10-02-2009, 6:38 PM
It's not a bad time to be buying as the "Obama Is Gonna Take Our Guns" frenzy looks like it's subsiding.

I like my Saigas... However, won't you have to 922R the gun to be able to install a bullet guide?

strangerdude
10-02-2009, 6:41 PM
It's not a bad time to be buying as the "Obama Is Gonna Take Our Guns" frenzy looks like it's subsiding.

I like my Saigas... However, won't you have to 922R the gun to be able to install a bullet guide?

Yes you will, that's why I suggested him the 5.45x39 saiga, no conversion is necessary, just slap on the 74 mags and you're good.

tombinghamthegreat
10-02-2009, 6:43 PM
A saiga is an AK.

[/B]

Yes you will, that's why I suggested him the 5.45x39 saiga, no conversion is necessary, just slap on the 74 mags and you're good.
no conversion is necessary?

strangerdude
10-02-2009, 6:47 PM
I don't know about all of them but for the 5.45x39 model you don't need to convert. My 30 round black bulgarians fit snug and chamber the round.


A saiga is an AK.


no conversion is necessary?

Henry Hill
10-02-2009, 6:53 PM
I didnt know that no conversion would be necessary in the 5.45 but I've read countless posts about 7.62 > *** . I'll prob convert it a few years down the line..

Can anyone recommend an online vender selling it for less than 360?

gn3hz3ku1*
10-02-2009, 7:10 PM
i love my saiga... :) it is an AK :)

SPUTTER
10-02-2009, 10:24 PM
Get one, I'd look for one with dimpled mag well.


Seldom seen in Russian service AK-103.
Good enough to protect a former President.:D

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/qbertquartz2/20070527.jpg

Don't mess with Putin.

Gigan
10-03-2009, 1:42 AM
I guess I'm leaning towards the saiga as well, looking for a place to pick one up.

cal_ar_shooter
10-03-2009, 6:45 AM
the only down side on the 5.45x39 is corrosive.

This means that you have to clean your rifle with a fee extra steps to prevent it from rusting.

Fot
10-03-2009, 2:13 PM
I didnt know that no conversion would be necessary in the 5.45 but I've read countless posts about 7.62 > *** . I'll prob convert it a few years down the line..

Can anyone recommend an online vender selling it for less than 360?

Peach state guns have them at $359 (last month he had them $349 with free shipping) I bought my Saiga 223 from Arms of America $367 with free shipping.

I wouldn't wait to long to buy one, all it takes is a hint at a new CA or Federal law/ban to push prices sky high.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the ammo bill only effect hand gun ammo?

skscj
10-03-2009, 2:19 PM
Try looking at a Saiga 308. You can use it to hunt or just target shoot. I love my AK in 308.

tonelar
10-03-2009, 2:20 PM
Hoffmeyers in Grass Valley had a couple 7.62x39 Saigas last week

Or

There's a .308 Saiga at City Arms in Pacifica. More $$$ but a great rifle AND a great caliber

Atlantic Firearms.com
10-03-2009, 2:39 PM
Henry Hill

email our office about this

BB63Squid
10-03-2009, 4:04 PM
Personally, if it were me and dinero was the issue, I would build my own AK. You can do this for ~400.

This will allow you to get a semi into your safe. Then save your money for a Saiga, AR...whatever.

Look in the Gunsmithing sub-forum and you will see that their are numerous build parties go on in the state. Plenty of people on the board that are willing to help and you could be up and running in no time at all.

Squid

Gregchico
10-03-2009, 4:32 PM
I got my 5.45x39 from Peach State Guns. I ordered, well lets say several spam cans of ammo from Sportsman's Guide for under .15 a round delivered (.1456 something).
I too can verify that Bulgarian 74 magazines work with out any guides or modifications needed.
Yes, clean up takes about 5 more minutes due to the flushing with warm water, but it is not a difficult addition to the cleaning program.

I originally was not going to convert mine, but something inside of me is wanting to do it now (using a monsterman).

Accuracy is not that great, about 4-5 inches at 100yds, but it is fun to shoot.

Henry Hill
10-03-2009, 7:11 PM
After looking at this again I can not decide !!!

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct767.aspx

That thing looks too beautiful

Gun_Fanatic
10-03-2009, 9:38 PM
You should just buy the saiga. I just got one and its fun to shoot and pretty accurate. Only thing is that the stock on the gun is absolutely horendous looking compared to the rest of the gun so you will probably end up spending more money to make it look nice. Also, because it is the same action as the ak it shoots the same. Even the instructions are based of an ak.

SanSacto
10-03-2009, 9:41 PM
A saiga is an AK.

+1 :cool2:

Flat Broke
10-03-2009, 9:46 PM
IMHO, buy the Saiga and some ammo and enjoy drop free mags. If you're used to shooting rifles, the stock/grip isn't an issue, and it's not like a std AK trigger feels that good to begin with. Save some money to buy your 922r compliance parts, then add the bullet guide so you can use 10/30s (or standard 30s when your out of state or facing the end of the world as we know it type situations).

fishkiller
10-03-2009, 11:14 PM
I have the 7.62x39 and love it. I plan on keeping it stock, just because I dont want to go thru the whole legality issues of 922r and then the CA compliancy issues with bullet button/fixed magazines etc. Granted the buttstock that it comes with isn't the prettiest, but I'm not one who really cares about looks on a rifle, I am more concerned with functionality. The saiga is by all means an AK, and like all AK's it will readily eat cheap russian ammo and beg for seconds. Mine seems to be slightly more accurate than the other AK's I have shot, but it still isn't ultra precise by any means. I have the 16 inch barrell model. I have put about 600 rounds through it so far, both Wolf and Brown Bear and have not had any problems.

The quality of the product combined with the reliability of the platform make the Saiga almost a no-brainer if you are looking for something in the $400 price range. There really isn't anything out there that compares to it for the money.

Buy a Saiga 7.62x39 ASAP. You will not regret it.

Hoop
10-03-2009, 11:56 PM
I am really torn too. I want the 5.45 & am thinking of converting it, just want to make sure that it can take ak 74 mags. The Bulgarian 74 is what i really wanted, but it's almost 2x the price for what is essentially the same firearm.

gopher hunter
10-04-2009, 8:38 PM
One thing about the RAA (Russian Amarican Armory) Saigas is they are BRAND NEWand the barrels are CHROMEDand it's an AK

Atlantic Firearms.com
10-05-2009, 3:43 AM
Henry Hill , if you call our office we can discuss the rifle that would best fit your needs , please mention that you are a Cal Guns member.

corpsedub
10-05-2009, 7:54 AM
saiga is a quality rifle.

SJgunguy24
10-05-2009, 8:02 AM
Henry Hill , if you call our office we can discuss the rifle that would best fit your needs , please mention that you are a Cal Guns member.

Wow, when I called, your guy told me to move and then hung up on me.

My my how times change.

Hoop
10-05-2009, 8:37 AM
After looking at this again I can not decide !!!

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct767.aspx

That thing looks too beautiful

Naw, this is the beautiful one:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct785.aspx

Atlantic Firearms.com
10-05-2009, 3:42 PM
We can ship any of the fixed stock AK 47 or AK74 rifles to CA with a bullet button installed and a blocked mag or with the pistol grip removed depending on what your dealer is comfortable with.

HalveNaught
10-14-2009, 1:49 PM
Wow, when I called, your guy told me to move and then hung up on me.


Did anybody else see this??? WTF??

Henry Hill
10-14-2009, 1:50 PM
Just bought the Saiga from Atlantic :D:D

Thanks atlantic! Hope if ships soon!

djleisure
10-14-2009, 1:52 PM
Good choice! You will be very happy with your purchase. ;)

tombinghamthegreat
10-14-2009, 2:03 PM
Just bought the Saiga from Atlantic :D:D

Thanks atlantic! Hope if ships soon!

good call. You will love it. :)

ENTHUSIAST
10-14-2009, 2:13 PM
But anyone have a Saiga rifle? How do you like it?

The most accurate AK I have ever shot PERIOD. I absolutely love my Saiga it makes me smile more than ANY AR I have ever shot I can hit man sized targets at 700 yards no scope or optics just the factory sight.

I have never cleaned it after hundreds of rounds and multiple desert trips to where is it gritty with sand and it is still reliable enough I would trust my life to it in a SHTF scenario...

dakobster81
10-14-2009, 3:00 PM
there was an FFL here in Fremont selling them for $370, he had posted in the Commercial Section, oh well, hope you like it, I think I'm gonna get one soon too

Just bought the Saiga from Atlantic :D:D

Thanks atlantic! Hope if ships soon!

SPUTTER
10-14-2009, 4:57 PM
Just bought the Saiga from Atlantic :D:D

Thanks atlantic! Hope if ships soon!

You'll like it. What caliber did you get?

Henry Hill
10-14-2009, 5:38 PM
there was an FFL here in Fremont selling them for $370, he had posted in the Commercial Section, oh well, hope you like it, I think I'm gonna get one soon too

Wish I woudl have saw that, WOudl have saved me 65 on dros/transfer:(

You'll like it. What caliber did you get?


7.62 x 39

-
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct782.aspx

ENTHUSIAST
10-14-2009, 6:31 PM
7.62 x 39
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct782.aspx

EXCELLENT choice!!! ^^^

welchy
10-14-2009, 8:04 PM
All of the new Saigas have dimpled receivers.

Instead of spending $750 on an AK buy two Saigas.

Henry Hill
10-15-2009, 9:44 AM
how do you know all the new ones have dimpled recievers? cant wait till my 10 days clear ;)

GTXR390
10-15-2009, 9:49 AM
how do you know all the new ones have dimpled recievers? cant wait till my 10 days clear ;)

mine got dimples...heard all the '09 saiga's have dimples.

welchy
10-15-2009, 5:08 PM
how do you know all the new ones have dimpled recievers? cant wait till my 10 days clear ;)

Mine has dimples, and that is what everyone else is saying.

Henry Hill
10-15-2009, 5:33 PM
Can anyone comfirm that the ones atlantic is shipping have dimpled receivers?

GTXR390
10-16-2009, 3:27 AM
Can anyone comfirm that the ones atlantic is shipping have dimpled receivers?

got mine at atlantic bout 2 weeks ago, it's dimpled...my buddy got one to, it's dimpled...these are the 16" 7.62x39mm

Atlantic Firearms.com
10-16-2009, 3:48 AM
There is no way to guarantee that all are dimpled but so far everyone we have pulled out of the 200 rifles we just got in are dimpled .

GTXR390
10-16-2009, 8:08 AM
+1 for Atlantic, everything went smooth!

Henry Hill
10-16-2009, 8:28 AM
There is no way to guarantee that all are dimpled but so far everyone we have pulled out of the 200 rifles we just got in are dimpled .

Awesome, cant wait for mine to get here!

BHPFan
10-16-2009, 9:48 AM
how do you know all the new ones have dimpled recievers? cant wait till my 10 days clear ;)

Welchy just summed it by saying:

All of the new Saigas have dimpled receivers.


I have one of the older one with no dimples. You can tell it by looking above the magazine on your receiver.

welchy
10-16-2009, 5:10 PM
First of all, everyone that posted after me agreed with what I said, as does every other post I have read on the subject. In fact when I posted that my new Saiga had dimples the only responses I got were that is what everybody is saying. In other words that it was old news. Who exactly do you think is going to write a flipping article about Saigas, and what sources do you expect them to cite? The only "sources" on this subject are people in forums like these.

I don't care if you are having a bad day. Do not come on here and take it out on me. If you don't want to hear what people have to say then don't ask questions.

Q
10-16-2009, 7:17 PM
Two weeks, Order something already! :D

I read peachstatearmory has the dimples to. Just buy from whomever is willing to take the time to check and set one aside for you.

I'm not sure if all the '09 223s have dimples but I bought one earlier this year. Spent more than I wanted but it was from the first lot so I wasn't sure if it was a fluke or production standard.

My project for the 223 '09, plum 74n
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/qbertquartz2/PDLPN58.jpg
USA parts
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/qbertquartz2/DSC01009.jpg

Henry Hill
10-16-2009, 7:56 PM
First of all, everyone that posted after me agreed with what I said, as does every other post I have read on the subject. In fact when I posted that my new Saiga had dimples the only responses I got were that is what everybody is saying. In other words that it was old news. Who exactly do you think is going to write a flipping article about Saigas, and what sources do you expect them to cite? The only "sources" on this subject are people in forums like these.

I don't care if you are having a bad day. Do not come on here and take it out on me. If you don't want to hear what people have to say then don't ask questions.


I apologize, I had a rough morning and meant no disrespect to you or the valuable opinions from the rest of the knowledgeable calguns community :D

SPUTTER
10-17-2009, 11:36 AM
I've noticed that you rarely see a Saiga rifle in the "for sale section".

sd_shooter
10-17-2009, 1:28 PM
Everyone should buy at least one Saiga, and here's why:

1) They are Russian. With the factory recently bankrupt, who knows how much longer these living pieces of history will be available?
2) They are AKs, produced in the same factory as AKs. But your wife won't know it's an AK, it's a sporting rifle! :D
3) They are affordable. What other semiauto rifle can you get for $350?
4) They are reliable. Great either as a plinker or as your doomsday weapon.
5) Cheap to feed. Plenty of milsurp ammo available and you don't have to worry much about corrosive ammo because the barrel is chrome lined.
6) You can easily convert it to look like a regular AK when your budget allows.
7) It comes with a scope mount.

"Relax - it's an AK!"

cgseanp1
10-17-2009, 1:36 PM
Well, you guys talked me into it. I tihnk my next gun will be one of these saigas.. I was planning on getting a .22lr semi auto, but I guess that can wait.. plus, the 7.62x39 is pretty reasonable.

sherm2954
10-17-2009, 5:20 PM
buy the Saiga now while you still can! I bought mine in 223 and shoot wolf ammo through it...It's been great! I plan on doing the conversion later, but for now I put a railed dust cover on it and attached my red dot and laser. So far, it's been a great rifle. Have fun!

cgseanp1
10-17-2009, 5:27 PM
buy the Saiga now while you still can! I bought mine in 223 and shoot wolf ammo through it...It's been great! I plan on doing the conversion later, but for now I put a railed dust cover on it and attached my red dot and laser. So far, it's been a great rifle. Have fun!

What is this conversion you are speaking of?

Seesm
10-17-2009, 5:52 PM
Saiga with detachable mags FTW

sd_shooter
10-17-2009, 7:57 PM
What is this conversion you are speaking of?

You ditch the stock, add a pistol grip and move the trigger forward. It's easy, the gun already comes with the necessary holes cut into the receiver. It's as if they planned it that way when it was made! :D

StevieC
10-18-2009, 2:56 PM
the only down side on the 5.45x39 is corrosive.

This means that you have to clean your rifle with a fee extra steps to prevent it from rusting.


Yes, clean up takes about 5 more minutes due to the flushing with warm water, but it is not a difficult addition to the cleaning program.


wait... the wolf 5.54 stuff is corrosive?
does that mean I need to clean it all the time?
I never clean my SKS and shoot wolf 7.62 all day long

is the wolf 7.62 corrosive also?

thanks!

cgseanp1
10-18-2009, 3:52 PM
wait... the wolf 5.54 stuff is corrosive?
does that mean I need to clean it all the time?
I never clean my SKS and shoot wolf 7.62 all day long

is the wolf 7.62 corrosive also?

thanks!

AS far as I know, wolf is not corrosive... 99% sure of that. The corrosive 5.45 is the cheap surplus stuff, comes in a tin can of 1100ish rounds for 150.

robairto
10-18-2009, 3:59 PM
Yes buy one. They are the current day SKS. They are the best rifle per dollar spent in my opinion.

StevieC
10-18-2009, 4:02 PM
AS far as I know, wolf is not corrosive... 99% sure of that. The corrosive 5.45 is the cheap surplus stuff, comes in a tin can of 1100ish rounds for 150.

thanks man
I'm just about to pull the trigger on a saiga 5.45
just didn't want to be a live in maid to the thing :D

dskell
10-18-2009, 4:30 PM
Haven't heard anything bad about these rifles. I think I'm going to pick one up at the next gun show.

Henry Hill
10-18-2009, 5:14 PM
What does it matter that its "chrome lined" barrel ? Wont I still have to clean/lube it after every use?

StevieC
10-18-2009, 5:40 PM
it's russian, it aint no primadonna AR :D

my sks has several thousand rounds through it without cleaning
I'm waiting for it to go full auto :p

cgseanp1
10-18-2009, 7:25 PM
thanks man
I'm just about to pull the trigger on a saiga 5.45
just didn't want to be a live in maid to the thing :D

If I were to get a 5.45 gun, id get it so I could fire the cheap corrosive ammo. $150 for 1080 rounds is pretty dang cheap! I'd at least buy a few of them sealed cans of ammo for a rainy day.

StevieC
10-18-2009, 7:36 PM
If I were to get a 5.45 gun, id get it so I could fire the cheap corrosive ammo. $150 for 1080 rounds is pretty dang cheap! I'd at least buy a few of them sealed cans of ammo for a rainy day.

yup I will, I saw em at aim ... almost like the old days
for fifty bucks more for a box of 1000 they got some heavier grained blackbear boatails

prolly stock up on some of those

Cokebottle
10-19-2009, 3:00 AM
Wow... that is an awesome deal.
Been debating which way to go.
My buddy just picked up a Ruger AR15 with the BB, and he recommended a .308. He already has an SKS, and we generally try to buy weapons in different calibers so we have a variety when we're out plinking.

I might be inheriting an old Sears 30-06 and a 30-30 that I barely remember from my father, but the 30-06 isn't cheap ammo, and the 30-30 isn't that good at long range... though any of the above would probably be just fine for SHTF, but I really would prefer the mag capacity of the AK over the 4-6 rd caps on the hunting rifles.

At less than 1/3rd the cost of a semi-auto .308, and no issues with California legality, this "little" 762-39 is looking sweet... just gotta start saving the pennies for it and find an FFL to work with.