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Technical Ted
06-10-2005, 10:40 PM
xxxxxxxxxx

Turbinator
06-10-2005, 10:52 PM
But for a .223 plinker, it might be ok?

Turby

bu-bye
06-11-2005, 1:57 AM
I did not like the look and feel of the A or B model. The C/CA with the sites on the front gas block just was a whole new world for me. I bought a CA model and like it very much.

The stock plastic mags are really just junk IMO. I use only USGI and Bushy mags in mine and they all drop free and slide in just like an AR. The stock mags are a little thick and the expand when filled making loading even harder.

The lack or a bolt release is a problem and in a months time I will have a drop in solution that fix that problem. Here is a video of me using a release on the bottom left side. Note how I don't have to rack the bolt back with my right hand on the mag switch.

SU-16 movie (http://64.124.188.245:8081/movie/su16ca.AVI)

Yes it is plastic but thats Kel-tec for you. All their guns are light weight guns thats what they are good at and tooled for. I'm sure they could CNC the whole thing out of aluminum or something but thats not who they are. Dispite all the plastic it feels solid and shoots great.

The price you saw is WAAAAAY to much. you can get a A su-16a for under $400 and I got my CA for $550. I think this is a good price for a 223 plunker. It has shot 1 inch groups when scoped and shooting reloads. I only ran a couple light weight reloads (40gr, 50gr) through it so I'm sure I can get better with a 55gr or 60gr bullet and the right powder. I'm not to worried about having to rebarrel this gun. IMO its not a gun you save from gen to gen. Its a fun gun. Drop it in the trunk, chuck it in a back pack and go have fun. Its light enough to hold aim for minutes at a time without your arms getting tired. The compact fore end makes a hugh improvement in the look of the gun. It is also plastic which I dislike a little but its still very solid. I hope an aluminum fore end is made at some point.

To some it up I very happy with it. I have only put a few hunred rounds through it but it has not jammed once. I had the option of a Mini and a SU. I have shot both and I'm glad I picked the SU-16ca.

dave3006
06-11-2005, 7:28 AM
I have M1 Garands and custom Mini-14s. My mini shoots a solid 2-3 MOA. 5000 rounds of Wolf ammo with NO malfunctions.

I handled the Sux-16. It was the WORST piece of garbage I have ever seen. I don't mind plastic, I own several Glocks. But, this thing was really a POS.

Californians are like horney drunks at a nightclub near closing time. Even the dumpy women start looking good at 1:59am. When you don't have many choices, the standards get lower.

Mr331
06-11-2005, 6:28 PM
I have been debating on a SU16CA or Mini14 for awhile. I go back and forth......the saga continues.

jdberger
06-11-2005, 8:29 PM
This is great! Just like the .45 vs, 9mm debate! I can't wait for the name calling and the ad hominum attacks. http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

Stevil
06-11-2005, 9:28 PM
Ted is your critique based solely on observation or did you actually get to shoot it and evaluate it's performance? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BTW just to correct one of your "observations" the SU-16 DOES HAVE a bolt stop/hold-open. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

jdberger
06-11-2005, 9:41 PM
Told ya... http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

Stevil
06-11-2005, 9:52 PM
LOL! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

That wasn't ad hominem, I hold the esteemed member Technical Ted with the highest respect.

MaceWindu
06-11-2005, 9:53 PM
Originally posted by jdberger:
Told ya... http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

+1

MaceWindu

icormba
06-11-2005, 11:54 PM
I wonder how many people, outside of california, are buying these?

C.G.
06-12-2005, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Technical Ted
Where is the release located?
There is no release per se, at least on the SU-16-A, it is spring-loaded; just need to pull back slightly on the bolt (can be done with the right thumb, if you are right-handed) and the spring releases it. The bolt stop is located forward of the trigger guard aft of the magwell.
Originally posted by dave3006
I have M1 Garands and custom Mini-14s. My mini shoots a solid 2-3 MOA. 5000 rounds of Wolf ammo with NO malfunctions.
I handled the Sux-16. It was the WORST piece of garbage I have ever seen. I don't mind plastic, I own several Glocks. But, this thing was really a POS.
At least Technical Ted enumerated reasons why he didn't like the SU-16 and some were absolutely valid and helped in the discussion or evaluation. However, you offered nothing except for a flat out statement. So, if it indeed yours is a custom Mini-14, I wouldn't be proud of that MOA. My POS SUX-16A out of the box for $470 does 2 MOA or better at 100 yards. However, I am told that the 2005 Mini has better barrel (and more accurate) so I am open to re-evaluating the Mini 2005.
Funny thing, as much as I don't mind plastic I prefer Sigs or Berettas over Glocks; Glocks don't fit me, Berettas and Sigs do, but I would not call the Glocks POS.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Technical Ted
the AR15/M16 has been in global military for nearly 50 years.[QUOTE]
True, but I am old enough to remember that during Nam many soldiers were considering the AR to be a POS and actually thought the AK-47 a superior weapon.

Bottom line is that we are limited to what we can own here in PRK; if we were not, I would not even consider an SU-16 or Mini-14. Everything becomes a compromise, I, personally, prefer a (in an AR type) lighter, more accurate weapon which is not perfect, but uses AR-mags over heavier, less accurate (unless 2005 really is better) weapon which is not perfect and does not use AR mags, but again, would not call it a POS. In the same light, I prefer an AR-15 over an AK-47 and a Fal over an M1, but would not call an AK-47 or an M1 a POS. But you know what? In a pinch I would use any and all to get the job done.

dave3006
06-12-2005, 7:23 AM
cg, I gave my opinion because I believe the my custom mini with a cut down barrel ($150 modification) is far superior to the Sux-16. It is a comparative opinion based on a subjective percieved value and quality. This opinion may help someone deciding between the two. People make alot of decisions this way. The Sux-16 felt like a toy. It was flimsy and fragile.

Grow up. There is nothing wrong with saying "A is good, B is bad." If you want happy talk, I am sure the disney channel has a board you can post on.

I want to hear all opinions good and bad. I can take it.

MaceWindu
06-12-2005, 7:30 AM
My POS SUX-16A out of the box for $470 does 2 MOA or better at 100 yards.

Please post pics of this. A 5 shot group with someone from the board as a witness. Not being an arse here, but I have had several people make this claim and NOT ONE person has followed up.

MaceWindu

Sharnhorst
06-12-2005, 7:34 AM
http://www.mattel.com/images/nav/nav_logo_.gif

MaceWindu
06-12-2005, 7:40 AM
Originally posted by Sharnhorst:
http://www.mattel.com/images/nav/nav_logo_.gif
http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

LongBch_SigP226
06-12-2005, 9:58 AM
Originally posted by Technical Ted:
I own a couple of Japanese made airsoft MP5's that are very durable, feel more solid and are manufactured to higher design and quality standards than the SUX-16.
Sheesh, you are not even old enough to be on here then. Sign off now!!!!

C.G.
06-12-2005, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by dave 3006
Grow up.

Thank you, I will keep that in mind. My mother has been telling me that for several decades now, I guess that didn't work either. http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

Originally posted by dave 3006
I want to hear all opinions good and bad. I can take it.

I have a vague feeling that you have misunderstood the point I was trying to make about constructive criticism. I want to hear all opinions good and bad as well (and can take them), but kind of want to know why something is good or bad from the other person's perspective. If we disagree, that is fine, after all this country is supposed to be built upon the premise of different opinions. Again, eventhough I do not agree with some of Technical Teds statements, on the other hand he does make some valid ones, which I agree with, but at least he backed up his dislike of the SU-16.

Originally posted by Mace Windu
A 5 shot group with someone from the board as a witness. Not being an arse here, but I have had several people make this claim and NOT ONE person has followed up.

The difficult part is "someone from the board as a witness." I live in boondogs and only know of one member remotely around here, who shoots on weekends, whereas I shoot on weekdays when I can. Fall and winter is when I can take time off on weekends.

Originally posted by Sharnhorst
Yup,I call mine "Mini-Mouse" to differentiate from the neutered "(Micky) mouse-guns" I have.

MaceWindu
06-12-2005, 10:26 AM
...and NOT ONE person has followed up.

http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MW

C.G.
06-12-2005, 10:37 AM
...and NOT ONE person has followed up
No worries, I will follow up in October, unless you can figure out something else that does not involve a member in the summer months.

HEUER
06-12-2005, 11:10 AM
I would like to stay neutral in this debate, but I have seen second hand KEL TEC SU 16 A's for sale for around 400 in the SF Bay Area and I suspect that figure will go down with the introduction of other SU 16 models. They do not seem to be holding there value. I guess people are starting to upgrade to the SU 16 CA model with the heavy barrel.

bu-bye
06-12-2005, 12:20 PM
OK CG, I'll take a day off on a weekday and we can go show our groups. I'm thinking not this monday but next. Let me know.

jdberger
06-12-2005, 1:51 PM
Ted, I'm thinking that was sarcasm on Ding's part.

But, it is nice to see that the rational measured discussion regarding the SU-16/Mini-14 is progressing nicely.

Next up, Glocks, love 'em/hate 'em? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif http://www.calguns.net/cowboy.gif

jdberger
06-12-2005, 2:24 PM
Yup, sorry. Work in SF. Sensitivity training and all that. Rots your brain.... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BTW...I like smileys....they're delicious.

rkt88edmo
06-12-2005, 2:26 PM
Originally posted by DingChavez:
Sheesh, you are not even old enough to be on here then. Sign off now!!!!

I think proper etiquette for demanding that another user sign off should immediately followed by an appropriate pejorative

Such as "sign off now you hoser!!!"

ETA: post #556 in an SU16 thread http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

HEUER
06-12-2005, 2:56 PM
Maybe heavier, but by know means a heavy barrel in the usual use of the word in shooting circles.[/QUOTE]

What is your standard min for a heavy barrel in your "shooting circles"?

0.657"?
0.740"?
0.798"?
0.820"?
0.922"?
0.924"?

06-12-2005, 5:59 PM
I checked on Kel-Tec's site (http://www.kel-tec.com/products.htm) and looked at all the models available:

I found the descriptions for the Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, CA (California) and the Delta but failed to find the (presumably) X-ray model, the SUX-16...
Did I miss something?!?! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (requisite smiley added)

IMNAAHO, the folding bipod reminds me of cockroach wings or something to that tune. I just can't get over that for some reason.

railroader
06-12-2005, 6:31 PM
Hey but I like my su-16, no really. And I don't knock mini 14's. It has lots of plastic but it works just like my plastic handguns.I just put a simmons 4 power scope on it that is short enough so I don't have to take it off to clean the rifle. It's reliable and pretty accurate. I actually shot a 5 shot group of 1" at 50 yards last weekend but that's my best so far. Now if I could have an ar15 I probably wouldn't have the keltec but that's not going to happen in cali and I don't want a fab 10 where I have to open it up every time I load. As for the price, mine was NIB for $470 out the door which is less than most polymer handguns around here. Mark

C.G.
06-12-2005, 6:56 PM
OK CG, I'll take a day off on a weekday and we can go show our groups. I'm thinking not this monday but next. Let me know.
Sort of busy, but would like to take care of this. Can I let you know Thursday or is that too late?

06-12-2005, 7:23 PM
Originally posted by Technical Ted:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Basura Blanca:
IMNAAHO, the folding bipod reminds me of cockroach wings or something to that tune. I just can't get over that for some reason.
Traumatic childhood experience back in the trailer park? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL.
Good thing you put that smiley in there.
Afterall, I wouldn't want to get busted for senior abuse.

http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bu-bye
06-12-2005, 9:30 PM
Originally posted by cg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> OK CG, I'll take a day off on a weekday and we can go show our groups. I'm thinking not this monday but next. Let me know.
Sort of busy, but would like to take care of this. Can I let you know Thursday or is that too late? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure just let me know.

Stevil
06-13-2005, 8:24 PM
Well I have both a Mini and a SU and unless I need a paper weight or have the need to beat someone I'll take my SU-16 out before the Mini almost every-time. If I'm really screwing around, the Mini seems to be the least discerning when it comes to ammo so that's when (and about only when) it gets used.

Ted the SU doesn't prophess to be, nor can it compare to a M-16/AR-15 by any stretch of the imagination BUT in budget semi-autos it's the ONLY option other than a Mini.

Sharnhorst
06-13-2005, 8:43 PM
If I'm really screwing around, the Mini seems to be the least discerning when it comes to ammo

That sounds like all the more reason to use the su16 to hold down the stack of papers and use the mini.

Stevil
06-14-2005, 9:57 AM
The SU-16 isn't heavy enough to make a good paper weight! http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

My SU gets fed a diet of XM193, I only use the Mini when I wanna shoot skanky commie ammo all-day long and accuracy isn't a major issue, BUT don't get me wrong I love the Mini-14, I was even thinking about getting a thirty.

esskay
06-14-2005, 2:32 PM
Come on guys, can't we all just get along?! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just buy one or more of each!

C.G.
06-14-2005, 2:50 PM
Originally posted by esskay Come on guys, can't we all just get along?!

Just buy one or more of each!
Now finally there is a word of wisdom! http://www.calguns.net/bow.gif

Stevil
06-14-2005, 8:42 PM
I think he was agreeing with me... kinda. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What I was trying to say is that my SU doesn't seem to be too keen on Wolf, so if I want a cheap all-day plinking shoot then I have to use the Mini instead.

I like 'em both... no really, I do! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

C.G.
06-14-2005, 9:48 PM
Originally posted by Technical Ted
Just a recommendation that you buy different types of ammo and see which one your gun likes best. 5 round groups from a bench using a sandbag for support (Don't use the integral bipod).

Then go and buy a bunch (preferably a case from the same lot) for consistency sake.

+1. Although I am too chicken to shoot Wolf. It would be good to see your comparison tests, when you are ready to post them.

Stevil
06-15-2005, 1:24 AM
Originally posted by Technical Ted:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stevil:
I think he was agreeing with me... kinda. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Kinda http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just a recommendation that you buy different types of ammo and see which one your gun likes best. 5 round groups from a bench using a sandbag for support (Don't use the integral bipod).

Then go and buy a bunch (preferably a case from the same lot) for consistency sake. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I've tried everything known to man... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, I'm a completist, BUT on-hand I have about a 5000 round stash of XM193 (I love the stuff) and some 500 or so of Wolf for plinkin', I also have some Blackhills stuff knocking around somewhere.

The bipod is totally useless, nice idea, poor execution.

What are these things, SAND of the BAGS that you speak of? http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif