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View Full Version : Transport a hand gun in an SUV with trigger lock without a lock box


tiko
10-01-2009, 6:42 PM
I saw a guy next to me in the shooting range, he carry a plastic box, inside is his SW 686 with a trigger lock on. His box doesn't have a lock and he drove an SUV (no trunk). I am in no position to tell him that is illegal to transport, but I can show this thread to him to correct him!
Please tell him that he is doing OK or not.

CSACANNONEER
10-01-2009, 6:53 PM
If the trigger lock is a "locked container" he is alright. If it isn't, he's breaking the law. Now, he can legally transport it without any container (or lock if he chooses) as long as he doesn't drive through a prohibited zone. The problem with this is that most LEOs don't understand the law and it'll cost him dearly for transporting it openly on his seat or dashboard.

KylaGWolf
10-01-2009, 7:24 PM
Yes you could show him this thread. If the box itself doesn't lock he is illegal. But he could put that same gun on the seat without the box and be perfectly legal.

When I transport my gun I put it in the case and padlock the case. Only because I live in school zone hell so when I leave the house it goes in the locked case then in the trunk. The only time I didn't have it in the trunk was on the trip to NV only because there was 2000 rounds of ammo in the trunk and with everything else that was in there was NO ROOM for the guns too. So those got put on the floorboard of the back seat underneath the suitcase.

Librarian
10-01-2009, 8:21 PM
The problem seems to be an often-encountered error: one thinks that the requirement is that the gun be locked.

That's not the law. PC12026.1 and 12026.2 specify (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key
lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

It's the container which must be locked.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

Theseus
10-01-2009, 10:22 PM
The problem seems to be an often-encountered error: one thinks that the requirement is that the gun be locked.

That's not the law. PC12026.1 and 12026.2 specify
It's the container which must be locked.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting
^ This.

A trigger lock does not exempt you from anything except liability from damage if someone was to steal your gun and use it to cause harm to someone.

That is why all my guns have a trigger lock on them.

Oh, and to add. . . It is only illegal to have it in a school zone. Otherwise as mentioned above, he is good to go.

Decoligny
10-02-2009, 7:03 AM
^ This.

A trigger lock does not exempt you from anything except liability from damage if someone was to steal your gun and use it to cause harm to someone.

That is why all my guns have a trigger lock on them.

Oh, and to add. . . It is only illegal to have it in a school zone. Otherwise as mentioned above, he is good to go.

Only if the person who "steals" your gun is a minor, who didn't break into your house to steal the gun.

The only time you have any liability under the law is if you don't have a trigger lock on your gun, and a minor who has legal access to your house accesses the gun and then either brandishes the gun in a public place, or injures or kills someone with the gun. Then you could be charged with either first or second degree criminal storage of a firearm.

WokMaster1
10-02-2009, 8:00 AM
OP, how do you know that once he gets to his SUV that he did not slip the plastic container in a briefcase with a lock? Did you stalk him & watch his every move?:D

GrizzlyGuy
10-02-2009, 8:07 AM
Like others have said, he's transporting a concealed firearm without a suitable exemption. Under PC 12025, that's a misdemeanor and maybe even a felony if the gun isn't registered to him. This is the law he is running afoul of:

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html

This thread may help him understand as well:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=223093

pmrtruck
10-02-2009, 8:08 AM
These laws are all RETARDED!
Congress is RETARDED!

woodsman
10-02-2009, 8:15 AM
These laws are all RETARDED!
Congress is RETARDED!

Yes they are. Sadly, we have supreme retardeness in the PRK.

wildhawker
10-02-2009, 8:52 AM
These laws are all RETARDED!
Congress is RETARDED!

What does Congress have to do with these laws? I think you're conflating legislative bodies and their jurisdictions.

wildhawker
10-02-2009, 8:57 AM
Yes they are. Sadly, we have supreme retardeness[sic] in the PRK.

We live in California, which is abbreviated as "CA", not "PRK".

Congress is the legislative body of the Federal government which meets in Washington, D.C.

The California Legislature, who created the law currently being discussed here, meets in Sacramento.

Sam1
10-02-2009, 1:13 PM
in my tahoe there's a locked compartment under the seat that requires a key to open, thats where I transport mine since it's legal because it's not the glove box/compartment. I also use the cable lock but I wrap it around the guns case handle and lock it

GuyW
10-02-2009, 1:48 PM
in my tahoe there's a locked compartment under the seat that requires a key to open, thats where I transport mine since it's legal because it's not the glove box/compartment. I also use the cable lock but I wrap it around the guns case handle and lock it

Also can't be in a "utility box". What's that? I dunno. Is yours a utility box? I dunno.

Use of a "key" isn't required by the Penal Code.
.

mmartin
10-02-2009, 1:53 PM
in my tahoe there's a locked compartment under the seat that requires a key to open, thats where I transport mine since it's legal because it's not the glove box/compartment. I also use the cable lock but I wrap it around the guns case handle and lock it

The law reads "locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment". I don't know that you *are* legal unless you can find something that indicates your under-seat container is *NOT* a utility compartment. a locking console compartment (between the seats) is generally cosidered a utility compartment. my hubby was told that his locking pickup-bed tool box (which is bolted to the bed) IS a utility compartment (2 references, San Diego and Riverside counties) and therefore doesn't constitute an appropriate locked container.

(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
Megan

loather
10-02-2009, 4:33 PM
my hubby was told that his locking pickup-bed tool box (which is bolted to the bed) IS a utility compartment (2 references, San Diego and Riverside counties) and therefore doesn't constitute an appropriate locked container.

That's just plain stupid. I doubt very seriously that such would stand up to scrutiny in court if actually challenged. This kind of thing infuriates me. I was actually planning on buying one of those tool boxes for my truck so I could transport my firearms this way.

Seriously. How is that *any* different from a trunk? Most trunks have releases from the inside of the vehicle. It'd be *easier* to get it out of the trunk than the tool box (which requires a key).

GuyW
10-02-2009, 4:55 PM
That's just plain stupid. I doubt very seriously that such would stand up to scrutiny in court if actually challenged. This kind of thing infuriates me. I was actually planning on buying one of those tool boxes for my truck so I could transport my firearms this way.

Seriously. How is that *any* different from a trunk? Most trunks have releases from the inside of the vehicle. It'd be *easier* to get it out of the trunk than the tool box (which requires a key).

You can still use the utility boxes to transport, it just doesn't count as the "locked container" for handguns...
.

mmartin
10-02-2009, 7:39 PM
You can still use the utility boxes to transport, it just doesn't count as the "locked container" for handguns...
.
right... which means you have to have it in a locked case inside your locked tool box.

find the legal definition of "utility compartment"... if you can. and let me know if you do. apparently it's entirely up to LE and DA interpretation.

megan

mmartin
10-02-2009, 7:47 PM
That's just plain stupid. I doubt very seriously that such would stand up to scrutiny in court if actually challenged. This kind of thing infuriates me. I was actually planning on buying one of those tool boxes for my truck so I could transport my firearms this way.

Seriously. How is that *any* different from a trunk? Most trunks have releases from the inside of the vehicle. It'd be *easier* to get it out of the trunk than the tool box (which requires a key).

a trunk is an integral part of the vehicle. a truck-bed tool box is not, even if it's bolted to the bed. or so I'm told.
functionally? looks the same to me... it's a locked compartment not accessible from the inside of the vehicle, and not removeable from the vehicle without the use of tools.

still, stupid or not, I'll just tell you in riverside you have to pay a lawyer to explain it to the DA or the judge, because the arrest report will say it was not properly and legally transported (that is, it was in an unlocked container in the utility compartment, and therefore consealed).

In SD county the LE will *tell* you the same thing, although I haven't seen it charged as such.

Megan

IsaacGlass
10-02-2009, 8:18 PM
right... which means you have to have it in a locked case inside your locked tool box.

Does anyone knows if the locked case has be made out of

hard plastic
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ne1ZnAM4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

metal
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/usaoptics-store_2041_20035445

or a lockable gun rug?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/412Y2SZF63L._AA280_.jpg

1BigPea
10-02-2009, 10:37 PM
Does anyone knows if the locked case has be made out of

hard plastic
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ne1ZnAM4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

metal
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/usaoptics-store_2041_20035445

or a lockable gun rug?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/412Y2SZF63L._AA280_.jpg

It can be made out of any of those.

I carry my pistols in a locked range bag, that is secure and sufficient.

kalalp
10-04-2009, 4:46 PM
If I have a rolling lockable cover on my pickup bed with the tailgate locked would this be considered legal? Anyone know? Seems like the definition of a trunk.

Librarian
10-04-2009, 5:20 PM
If I have a rolling lockable cover on my pickup bed with the tailgate locked would this be considered legal? Anyone know? Seems like the definition of a trunk.

Regrettably, 'know' would require either a detailed opinion from the Attorney General or a body of case law where different things were prosecuted and there were court rulings.

That said, I agree that your locked cover and tailgate seems like a trunk.

We have to stop over-thinking this. Drive carefully so you don't get stopped, and 99% of the problems will never occur.

In that remaining 1% will be things like accidents - in which case usually you will have injuries to worry about, far more important than how you happened to be transporting a firearm.

Bigballaizm
10-04-2009, 8:03 PM
We have to stop over-thinking this. Drive carefully so you don't get stopped, and 99% of the problems will never occur.
In that remaining 1% will be things like accidents - in which case usually you will have injuries to worry about, far more important than how you happened to be transporting a firearm.

True!! :yes: