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View Full Version : Is the M-44 mosin nagant an assault rifle?


thekingsphance
10-01-2009, 4:24 PM
Hello all, I'm a first timer to the forum and have a burning question. I'm active duty military and moved here a little over 3 years ago and had to check my guns in to the base armory when I first got here. So I found an apartmend to move into and go to check my guns back out and they say I can't have my M 44 back until I get reassigned to another base because it's classified as an assault rifle in CA. I said ok and left it at that. I've recently been doing some research and can't find anything that would classify the M 44 as an assault rifle here or anywhere else. So can anyone help me out? Before I go in there and accuse them of violating my gun rights, I want to make sure that I am in fact right about this.

CSACANNONEER
10-01-2009, 4:30 PM
http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi

Of course it's not! Unless you have a rare SEMI AUTOMATIC M44 with a detachable magazine and a listed evil feature. I bet someone saw a list that said someone's M4 was an AW and assumed that your M44 was the same thing.

To be fair, the M44 was an AW at the end of WWII. But, it just doesn't fit the current definition of "assault weapon" today.

Plisk
10-01-2009, 4:30 PM
A Mosin Nagant M-44 bolt action rifle? No, its not assualt rifle by any means.

SKSer
10-01-2009, 4:31 PM
start here http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi

Mitch
10-01-2009, 4:37 PM
I bet someone saw a list that said someone's M4 was an AW and assumed that your M44 was the same thing.

No, the M44 has a permanent bayonet. That must have scared the pants off the base armorer.

Dr Rockso
10-01-2009, 4:39 PM
:rofl2:
Well historically it's probably killed more people than the current crop of EBRs...

SKSer
10-01-2009, 4:42 PM
what i would do to convince them is print out the roberti-roos list and SB-23 and show that to them. explain its not on the robert-roos list and it doesnt have the generic characteristics of an AW. just remember it has to have a detachable mag AND any one of the followingm, pistol grip, forward pistol grip, Flash supressor, folding collapsable stock, thumb hole stock, **grenade launcher**. Exept with the grenade launcher, I think that is completely illegal regardles, thats why we could never get the yugo SKS's with launchers

Mitch
10-01-2009, 4:45 PM
:rofl2:
Well historically it's probably killed more people than the current crop of EBRs...

It's the rifle that won WWII.

bhaworth
10-01-2009, 4:47 PM
M44s are on sale at Big 5 throughout California this week. Check the flyer in last Sunday's newspapers. If your armorer won't give you yours back go buy another for $139.00. Sale ends Saturday.

wash
10-01-2009, 4:51 PM
what i would do to convince them is print out the roberti-roos list and SB-23 and show that to them. explain its not on the robert-roos list and it doesnt have the generic characteristics of an AW. just remember it has to have a detachable mag AND any one of the followingm, pistol grip, forward pistol grip, Flash supressor, folding collapsable stock, thumb hole stock, **grenade launcher**. Exept with the grenade launcher, I think that is completely illegal regardles, thats why we could never get the yugo SKS's with launchers
First of all, it's not semi-automatic so it can have all the features you could imagine and it will never be an AW.

five.five-six
10-01-2009, 5:01 PM
it's a battle rifle

five.five-six
10-01-2009, 5:02 PM
It's the rifle that won WWII.

meh, m1 garand, "the greatest single battle implement ever devised by man."

CSACANNONEER
10-01-2009, 5:11 PM
No, the M44 has a permanent bayonet. That must have scared the pants off the base armorer.

I have two of them and yea, they both have marshmellow cookers attached to them. But, bayos have NEVER been mentioned in any Ca AW definition. We are talking about the military here so, I bet it's a M4 vs M44 thing. If it;s a big problem for the OP, I'll sell him one of mine, hot dog cooker and all, and he can leave that one on base for now.

demnogis
10-01-2009, 5:34 PM
I've had my M44 for nearly 8 years now. It's reliable, durable, accurate to 800yds and is easy as hell to find steel-core ammo for.

The person that told you have to keep it on-base because it is an AW is greatly misled. Bayonets are not illegal. Although, some ranges will ask you to keep them locked back ;) Tell the guy he needs to learn the CA definitions of "Assault Weapon" and "Assault Rifle".

Meplat
10-01-2009, 6:08 PM
:rofl2:
Well historically it's probably killed more people than the current crop of EBRs...

I will fall back on my answer to people who say that handguns and assault rifles are only good for killing people. Some people need killing.

Meplat
10-01-2009, 6:13 PM
meh, m1 garand, "the greatest single battle implement ever devised by man."

(Gen. George Patton.)

ZRX61
10-01-2009, 6:27 PM
I'd love to hear the outcome of the next meeting :)

thekingsphance
10-01-2009, 6:30 PM
Thanks for the good inputs, I'm convinced. I'll be getting my gun back and ask them why they violated my right to posess an M 44!

SKSer
10-01-2009, 7:36 PM
First of all, it's not semi-automatic so it can have all the features you could imagine and it will never be an AW.

wash is absolutely right, missed that it was bolt action :o, but anyway, if in the future you become interested in building a california legal AR or AK you ll want to learn these laws. Welcome to the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia commrade. join in on the fight to get our second ammendment rights back. Start out by calling the Governer and do a dial vote against AB 962, 916-445-2841, which if you havnt heard yet is messing with handgun ammo. Its on his desk and if he doesnt veto by Oct 11 it becomes law. Read up more on it.

Dr. Peter Venkman
10-01-2009, 9:29 PM
Yes.

Theseus
10-01-2009, 10:26 PM
I think my M38 is more an AW. . . if there really was such a thing. . .

But that is because I EBR'd it.

RolinThundr
10-01-2009, 11:21 PM
M44s are on sale at Big 5 throughout California this week. Check the flyer in last Sunday's newspapers. If your armorer won't give you yours back go buy another for $139.00. Sale ends Saturday.

Just take the Big 5 flyer to the armorer and show the nice picture of that bad, bad rifle being legally sold in CA. This may help as well:

"12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following: (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:"
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php

The M44 Mosin-Nagant does not meet the first requirement of an AW, it is not a semiautomatic. Therefore, it cannot be classified as an AW in CA.

Get very familiar with the CA AG's website. For an anti-gun, anti-2A state the AG's website is great for researching and understanding the Republik's gun laws.
http://ag.ca.gov/

blackberg
10-01-2009, 11:30 PM
has the armorer actually seen it? he probably saw M44 on a form and figured NFA M4:confused:, not realizing what it actually was

-bb

Flopper
10-02-2009, 12:06 AM
I'm thinking that the armorer thought MP44.

artherd
10-02-2009, 12:42 AM
Yeah, your honor, this is why these assinine laws aren't going to pass strict scrutiny!

wildhawker
10-02-2009, 9:16 AM
Yeah, your honor, this is why these assinine laws aren't going to pass strict scrutiny!

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the utter confusion...

Trench Broom
10-02-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm pretty sure that M44's were used to "assault" enemy positions, so yeah, it's an assault rifle. :D

tube_ee
10-02-2009, 12:47 PM
meh, m1 garand, "the greatest single battle implement ever devised by man."

Not true.

WWII was made winnable on the Eastern Front. The Soviets lost over twenty million lives fighting WWII, but in doing so, they basically ended the existence of the Wehrmacht as an effective fighting force. The Germans were never able to replace the men and materiel they left on the frozen fields of Russia. They just didn't have the population.

And if all of those men, tanks, planes, guns, and trucks had been available in the West in 1944, Operation Overlord could never have happened.

--Shannon

Springfield45
10-02-2009, 1:08 PM
It was a Assault rifle in 1944. It was obsolete in 1945.

GS2AC President
10-03-2009, 12:52 PM
I wouldn't call it an assault weapon.......... but when I shoot surplus ammo through mine in the evening it makes one heck of a light show. I consider mine a bolt action anti-aircraft gun.

Trench Broom
10-03-2009, 1:33 PM
Didn't the Japanese type 44 carbine have a ladder sight with flip-down anti-aircraft legs on either side of it? I still kick myself for not picking one up years ago. :mad:

IrishJoe3
10-03-2009, 11:40 PM
and they say I can't have my M 44 back until I get reassigned to another base because it's classified as an assault rifle in CA..


BWHAHAHA! :D Sorry.....couldn't resist.

Mitch
10-04-2009, 5:54 AM
WWII was made winnable on the Eastern Front. The Soviets lost over twenty million lives fighting WWII, but in doing so, they basically ended the existence of the Wehrmacht as an effective fighting force.

Yeah, that was my point.

The Germans sent over 200 divisions against the Russians. There were never more than roughly 40 divisions in Western Europe.

The war of Hollywood, and "Band of Brothers," was a sideshow compared to the Eastern Front.

The Mosin-Nagant was the rifle that won WWII. Pick one up (after the appropriate ten-day wait) at a Big 5 now.

cbn620
10-04-2009, 4:20 PM
I have two of them and yea, they both have marshmellow cookers attached to them. But, bayos have NEVER been mentioned in any Ca AW definition. We are talking about the military here so, I bet it's a M4 vs M44 thing. If it;s a big problem for the OP, I'll sell him one of mine, hot dog cooker and all, and he can leave that one on base for now.

If I'm not mistaken, the bayonet thing was once mentioned in federal law, wasn't it? Either way I'm willing to bet someone is reaaaaally behind the times and/or severely uneducated on firearms law.

There's also the distinction between an assault rifle and an "assault weapon." There is really no such thing as a semi-automatic, let alone bolt action assault rifle. That is kind of why they had to make up the "assault weapon" term. They needed something to scare people.

Dr Rockso
10-04-2009, 4:53 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the bayonet thing was once mentioned in federal law, wasn't it? Either way I'm willing to bet someone is reaaaaally behind the times and/or severely uneducated on firearms law.

There's also the distinction between an assault rifle and an "assault weapon." There is really no such thing as a semi-automatic, let alone bolt action assault rifle. That is kind of why they had to make up the "assault weapon" term. They needed something to scare people.

Yeah, various federal laws have made reference to bayonets or bayonet lugs. Lugs were considered a feature under the 1994 AWB, and the presence or absence of a bayonet has been used to determine the 'sporting purpose' of imported rifles.

dieselcarpenter
10-04-2009, 5:16 PM
:43: Well my M-44 just came home today with the side fold spike bayonet. Thanks to my local Big-5. My brother bought an SKS witht the underfold knife bayonet and we both have Mossberg 590's with M-9 baynoet lugs all purchased under this oppressive regime.

IMO anything you assault someone with is an ""assault weapon"". the action/crime is the assault. The weapon is what was used to effect the action. nothing more than a tool like an ax or baseball bat.

there is an official definition of an assault rifle. I think it includes stuff about intermediate cartridges or something,

but any rifle used in a military ""assault"" could qualify in my book even a Sharps at the little big horn for petes sake.

But for todays purposes an M-44 isnt even close.