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5hundo
09-29-2009, 10:35 PM
:rolleyes:

Here's the link:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=141654982

The picatilly rails for the scope mounts, I'll give you. However, the tactical rails affixed on either side of the stock is a bit much. What's that for?

...a tactial flashlight?

Laser sight?

:confused:

Sometimes, I wonder about people...

Sunshine
09-29-2009, 10:39 PM
Lol, gotta be ready for those zombies

NeoWeird
09-29-2009, 10:51 PM
A rifle mounted flash light could come in handy for a hunter, especially if they are humping it and not sitting in a blind.

Still, why **** with the Krag of all rifles? You'd think someone would pick something a little more common, cheaper, still being produced, or at least with something more than a TINY niche of aftermarket performance parts.

chsk9
09-29-2009, 11:35 PM
I'm not too sure about the flashlight mount, but aside from that it (rifle photographed) is consisent with the scout rifle concept. If it was in .308 or
.223 it would be a interesting set up!

B Strong
09-30-2009, 7:25 AM
For something like an M44, yes, but a Krag? Yikes!

thefurball
09-30-2009, 8:44 AM
I like the top rail, not so sure about the stock mounted side rail.

I inherited a Krag from my grandfather that was 'sporterized' in the first half of the last century. (The barrel and stock were cut down.) Even with the modifications it is still very accurate with iron sites and packs a good punch.

motorhead
09-30-2009, 9:15 AM
they gotta be selling buckets of those. finally a scout rifle on a krag platform.

God Bless The Mauser
09-30-2009, 10:20 AM
How superfluous.

SVT_Fox
09-30-2009, 10:23 AM
i like it

5hundo
09-30-2009, 1:03 PM
they gotta be selling buckets of those. finally a scout rifle on a krag platform.

Yeah really...

100 years in the making!!!

:D

ar15barrels
09-30-2009, 1:24 PM
A rifle mounted flash light could come in handy for a hunter, especially if they are humping it and not sitting in a blind.

A rifle mounted flashlight could also get a hunter in trouble if he gets caught using it in the field.

it is Iillegal to:
• Take game mammals except as permitted
by regulations. T14-250.
• Hunt big game without a valid hunting
license and tag. FGC 1054.2.
• Hunt with a crossbow during archery season (except with a Disabled Archer Permit). T14-354(g).
• Possess a firearm while hunting during archery season or while hunting during the general season with an archery-only tag. T14-354(h).
• Take spike bucks. FGC 204(d).
• Pursue, drive, herd, or take any bird or mammal from any type of motor-driven air or land vehicles, motorboat, airboat, sailboat, or snowmobile, except when the motor is off and/or the sails furled and it is drifting, beached, moored, resting at anchor, or is being
propelled by paddle, oar or pole. T14-251.
• Harass, herd or drive any game or nongame mammal or furbearing mammal. T14-251.1.
• Knowingly feed big game mammals. T14-251.3.
• Take mammals within 400 yards of any baited area. This does not apply to the taking of mammals on or over standing
crops, croplands, or grains found scattered solely as the result of normal agricultural operations or procedures. T14-257.5.
• Take bears within 400 yards of any garbage dump or bait. T14-365(e).• Take more than two deer per license year. T14-708(a)(1).
•Intentionally discharge a firearm or release an arrow or crossbow bolt from a bow or crossbow upon or across any highway, road or other way open to vehicular traffic. T14-354(e), FGC 3004(b).
• Nock or fit the notch in the end of an arrow to a bowstring or crossbow string in a ready-to-fire position while in or on any vehicle. T14-354(i).
• Hunt with bow or crossbow that will not cast a legal hunting arrow, except flu-flu arrows, a horizontal distance of 130 yards. T14-354(f).
• Hunt big game from one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise. T14-352.
• Use dogs for pursuit/take, or for dog training, during the archery seasons for deer or bear. T14-265(a)(1).
• Use dogs to take elk, bighorn sheep and antelope. T14-265(a)(2).
• Use dogs for pursuit/take of, or for dog training on, mountain lions (except
under authority of a depredation permit). T14-265(a)(3).
• Use an artificial light to assist in taking any game bird or game mammal. FGC 2005.

Saigon1965
09-30-2009, 6:27 PM
Why not - Freaky but I like it -

NeoWeird
10-01-2009, 3:23 PM
A rifle mounted flashlight could also get a hunter in trouble if he gets caught using it in the field.

I thought that portion of law was in regards to a light used as a distration tool, like 'deer in the headlights' type of snare/trap device, not a 'help me see where it's dark' type of device.

Then again, I'm sure what TYPE of light you put on there could make a world of difference. If you're pushing four digits of lumens then you're probably not using it to only see your way as you walk.

ar15barrels
10-01-2009, 4:31 PM
I thought that portion of law was in regards to a light used as a distration tool, like 'deer in the headlights' type of snare/trap device, not a 'help me see where it's dark' type of device.

Then again, I'm sure what TYPE of light you put on there could make a world of difference. If you're pushing four digits of lumens then you're probably not using it to only see your way as you walk.

I could not find the exact regulation because I'm too lazy to search it out, but there is specific wording about weapon mounted lights being prohibited.
You can certainly use a flashlight to get to your stand.
You can't use a flashlight to illuminate game that you are shooting at though.

coop44
10-01-2009, 5:12 PM
damn nice guide gun/scout rifle, don't know about the side rails though.

wilit
10-01-2009, 6:16 PM
Still, why **** with the Krag of all rifles? You'd think someone would pick something a little more common, cheaper, still being produced, or at least with something more than a TINY niche of aftermarket performance parts.

Once you've bubba'd every foreign C&R out there, then you've got to start bubba'ing the domestic C&Rs.

5hundo
10-01-2009, 6:31 PM
damn nice guide gun/scout rifle, don't know about the side rails though.

Meh...

The Krag cartridge isn't that powerful. That's part of why it was so short-lived. Plus, ammo is completely impossible to find these days. They load slowly, they only hold 5 rounds and considering what they're going for these days, hacking one up to do this isn't a good idea at all. Granted, I think the assumption is that you would be doing this to a rifle that has already been sporterized but still, even if you have a sporter these days, if it can be converted back easily enough, you should do that, as opposed to drilling the stock for a rail...

There are honestly much better rifles to do this to that would make much better "scout" or "trapper" rifles, IMHO...

coop44
10-10-2009, 8:15 PM
the indispensble feature I really like is being able to reload with a round in the chamber and the bolt closed.

as far as not being powerful, stand over there and let me shoot you with one, then we'll see.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-10-2009, 9:25 PM
I have a Krag tactical light ready to mount on that side rail, but unfortunately it's set up for a Harpers Ferry rail and not a Picatinny rail.

http://www.wordcraft.net/flashlites/evcloverleafbike.jpg

Does anybody know where to get a Harpers Ferry to Picatinny adaptor?

5hundo
10-10-2009, 11:06 PM
as far as not being powerful, stand over there and let me shoot you with one, then we'll see.

Substitute me with a pissed off Mama bear, protecting her cubs and tell me if you think a Krag is enough. Honestly, I'd rather have a .308 or a .30-06. Plus, how much easier is it to find those cartridges? Even Wal-mart carries them...

M. Sage
10-10-2009, 11:30 PM
I'm not too sure about the flashlight mount, but aside from that it (rifle photographed) is consisent with the scout rifle concept. If it was in .308 or
.223 it would be a interesting set up!

I'm not sure about that. .30/40 isn't exactly what I'd call a full-power cartridge like .308. I'm not real sure about its hit and stop potential once you start talking about 300-400 yard shots.

Besides which, what's a Krag weigh? Something tells me it'd be too heavy to be consistent with the scout concept.

bigstick61
10-11-2009, 12:14 AM
Well, to be actually consistent, it would actually have to be in .308. I think only some late production Norwegian Krags came in that caliber or are capable of being converted to that caliber...safely, that is.

NeoWeird
10-11-2009, 12:35 AM
Just to step back, the Krag didn't have a short military life because it was obsolete. It had a short military life because we Americans like to keep everything in country, that way when we piss you off enough we can still arm our forces when you decide to fight back. We opted for a Mauser design, made it in house, and called it the Model of 1903 (Springfield).

bigstick61
10-11-2009, 12:57 AM
The American version of the Krag was produced in U.S. government armories, to the best of my knowledge.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-11-2009, 1:08 AM
Just to step back, the Krag didn't have a short military life because it was obsolete. It had a short military life because we Americans like to keep everything in country, that way when we piss you off enough we can still arm our forces when you decide to fight back. We opted for a Mauser design, made it in house, and called it the Model of 1903 (Springfield).

As mentioned, the U.S. Krag's were all made in the U.S., at Springfield Armory in Massachusetts. And they were replaced because they were obsolete. They couldn't stand the higher pressures needed for the flatter shooting cartridges that were coming into vogue. And they couldn't be loaded as fast as the Mauser design.

NeoWeird
10-11-2009, 1:11 AM
I was under the impression we were still paying royalties to the Norwegians for the Krag design :confused:

ETA: which is why we 'designed' the Springfield rather than licensing out with Mauser.

m98
10-11-2009, 4:22 AM
I have a Krag tactical light ready to mount on that side rail, but unfortunately it's set up for a Harpers Ferry rail and not a Picatinny rail.

http://www.wordcraft.net/flashlites/evcloverleafbike.jpg

Does anybody know where to get a Harpers Ferry to Picatinny adaptor?

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: You gotta paint it black,OD,Tan or camo though:rofl2:

Mssr. Eleganté
10-11-2009, 12:04 PM
I was under the impression we were still paying royalties to the Norwegians for the Krag design :confused:

ETA: which is why we 'designed' the Springfield rather than licensing out with Mauser.

We did have to pay royalties to use the Krag design, but the rifles were made at Springfield. We thought we wouldn't have to pay royalties to Mauser for the M1903 rifle, but ended up having to pay royalties after Mauser sued us for patent infringement.

coop44
10-11-2009, 12:38 PM
Substitute me with a pissed off Mama bear, protecting her cubs and tell me if you think a Krag is enough. Honestly, I'd rather have a .308 or a .30-06. Plus, how much easier is it to find those cartridges? Even Wal-mart carries them...

Alot to be said for a big slow moving bullet, a lot of game has been taken with the .30/40 krag.

as far as bullet design and velocity think about it.

a round nose bullet like the krag round may not have enough velocity to punch all the way through a game animal. therefore it has imparted all of it's energy at the target.Proper shot placement will result a clean kill with minimal damage to the edible portioins of the carcass. Why do you think the 30-30 is probably the most used game cartridge on deer in north America?

On the other hand the 308 and 30/06 were designed, and,have a primary purpose of destroying as much of the target (meat) as possible. Also, moving at such a velocity to not only penetrate a target completely (taking it's energy with it) but to continue on afterwards to strike unintended objects. Of course this is dependant on bullet design, but who has the time to swap out ammo to meet varying conditions and game.


BTW do your bear research, just because you see a bear does not mean you will be attacked. In ALASKA since 1900 there have been 472 bear/human incidents 85% of which resulted in no injuries. The people who were injured or killed may have been able to avoid tragedy by taking simple precautions.

If you see a bear, it does not give you carte blanche to kill it.

m98
10-11-2009, 7:47 PM
If you see a bear, it does not give you carte blanche to kill it.

True to a certain degree. It really depends on the situation i.e 25yds with mama bear&cubs. Most good hunters will be able to determine if the situation is a threat right away, but there are those that'll do just what was said above the instant they spot a bear.

5hundo
10-12-2009, 9:37 AM
Alot to be said for a big slow moving bullet, a lot of game has been taken with the .30/40 krag.

Yeah, but we weren't discussing the values of the Krag as a "hunting rifle". It goes without saying that the Krag has been a good hunting caliber for years. That's why so many of them were sporterized. We were discussing the values of a Krag as a "guide gun" or "tactical rifle" (ie: the picture I posted).

a round nose bullet like the krag round may not have enough velocity to punch all the way through a game animal. therefore it has imparted all of it's energy at the target.Proper shot placement will result a clean kill with minimal damage to the edible portioins of the carcass. Why do you think the 30-30 is probably the most used game cartridge on deer in north America?

Yeah, and you can also buy .308 in round nose, or load them yourself. 30-30 pretty much has to be round nose because of the application. Either one of those cartriges are readily available at most any sporting goods store, or Wal-Mart. Try to find 30-40 at any nearby store in your area. I'll bet you $20 that you can't find one box within 50 miles of your house on the shelves of a sporting goods store. This is where the Krag fails the test. Ammo availability sucks. I have 2 Krags and I have to load for them, otherwise I can't shoot...

On the other hand the 308 and 30/06 were designed, and,have a primary purpose of destroying as much of the target (meat) as possible. Also, moving at such a velocity to not only penetrate a target completely (taking it's energy with it) but to continue on afterwards to strike unintended objects. Of course this is dependant on bullet design, but who has the time to swap out ammo to meet varying conditions and game.

Veloicites and energy from a Krag can be loaded up to the range of a .308 (if you push it) so Krag isn't any more, or less destructive than .308 to the meat. Plus, if you use a bullet like a Partition, you're not going to see much meat lost out of a .308. Nosler ballistic tips are a different story though. If you think a round nose bullet is best suited for your application, there are .308 loads for 220gr round nose bullets.


BTW do your bear research, just because you see a bear does not mean you will be attacked. In ALASKA since 1900 there have been 472 bear/human incidents 85% of which resulted in no injuries. The people who were injured or killed may have been able to avoid tragedy by taking simple precautions.

If you see a bear, it does not give you carte blanche to kill it.

I never suggested any kind of indiscriminatory killing of bears. Did you even read what I wrote? I said: a pissed off Mama bear, protecting her cubs...

That clearly suggests that you would be in a situation where you would be fearful for your life. Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about killing animals for no good reason...

gun toting monkeyboy
10-12-2009, 1:38 PM
Guys, all he is offereing is a NON-BUBBA way to play with your rifle without chopping it up. It looks like it is along the same lines as a Mojo sight. As for the light, the regs are only for Game species. Non-game critters can be popped whenever, with whatever in most cases. I have no urge to go sporterize, or even scope mount a Krag. But I am glad that somebody came up with a non-permanent solution for it.

-Mb

p.s. The Norwegian Krags are NOT strong enough for a .308. First, they are so uncommon that destroying one to make a lame sporter should be a crime. Second, and more importantly, they were only just strong enough to handle the old 6.5x55 loads. Not any of the newer, hotter loads people are using to take advantage of the much stronger Swedish mausers. In 20 years off collecting old rifles, I have seen exactly ONE Norwegian Krag. And I didn't put it down until my name was on the paperwork, and I had a receipt. They are great guns, but most of them stayed in Norway for hunting rifles. If you have one, don't chop it.

coop44
10-12-2009, 6:17 PM
True to a certain degree. It really depends on the situation i.e 25yds with mama bear&cubs. Most good hunters will be able to determine if the situation is a threat right away, but there are those that'll do just what was said above the instant they spot a bear.

damn sad, some folks are just looking for an excuse to kill something, just to watch it die

tygerpaw
10-12-2009, 6:33 PM
Jeff Cooper thought enough of the Krag in Scout configuration to use it in pictorial illustrations in his book The Art of the Rifle. I'm not saying he prefered it, but he did use it. If ammo were readily available, I think it would be a cool rifle. The action is WAY nicer than any Mosin, and they load quickly too.

coop44
10-12-2009, 6:45 PM
Teddy Roosevelt took game in africa (mostly antelope, medium sized) and swore by it. Ammo availability is only as far away as your reloading bench. Low pressure as it is, the Krag case is good for a number of reloadings. To all those guys who go out and burn up ammo and barrels as quickly as possible, one question, what is the point?

Army GI
10-12-2009, 7:03 PM
I'm not sure about that. .30/40 isn't exactly what I'd call a full-power cartridge like .308. I'm not real sure about its hit and stop potential once you start talking about 300-400 yard shots.

Besides which, what's a Krag weigh? Something tells me it'd be too heavy to be consistent with the scout concept.

Well, sure. The 30-40 isn't like a 30-06. But according to Sierra, The Sierra 200 grain GameKing boat tail spitzer bullet can be driven to a MV of 2200 fps with 2149 ft. lbs. of ME by 40.2 grains of IMR 4895. That ain't half bad, and definitely much better than the 45-70 Government which it was designed to replace.

bigstick61
10-12-2009, 7:56 PM
Guys, all he is offereing is a NON-BUBBA way to play with your rifle without chopping it up. It looks like it is along the same lines as a Mojo sight. As for the light, the regs are only for Game species. Non-game critters can be popped whenever, with whatever in most cases. I have no urge to go sporterize, or even scope mount a Krag. But I am glad that somebody came up with a non-permanent solution for it.

-Mb

p.s. The Norwegian Krags are NOT strong enough for a .308. First, they are so uncommon that destroying one to make a lame sporter should be a crime. Second, and more importantly, they were only just strong enough to handle the old 6.5x55 loads. Not any of the newer, hotter loads people are using to take advantage of the much stronger Swedish mausers. In 20 years off collecting old rifles, I have seen exactly ONE Norwegian Krag. And I didn't put it down until my name was on the paperwork, and I had a receipt. They are great guns, but most of them stayed in Norway for hunting rifles. If you have one, don't chop it.

From what I have read, sporting type Norwegian Krags continued to be produced after WWII, including conversions of these to calibers such as 7.92 Mauser, .30-06, and 7.62 NATO, which supposedly was made possible due to improved metallurgy and a modification of the design to make it suitable for such cartridges.

Crawfish141
10-12-2009, 10:14 PM
I like the non-tactical version better.

coop44
10-13-2009, 8:33 AM
Yeah, but we weren't discussing the values of the Krag as a "hunting rifle". It goes without saying that the Krag has been a good hunting caliber for years. That's why so many of them were sporterized. We were discussing the values of a Krag as a "guide gun" or "tactical rifle" (ie: the picture I posted).



Yeah, and you can also buy .308 in round nose, or load them yourself. 30-30 pretty much has to be round nose because of the application. Either one of those cartriges are readily available at most any sporting goods store, or Wal-Mart. Try to find 30-40 at any nearby store in your area. I'll bet you $20 that you can't find one box within 50 miles of your house on the shelves of a sporting goods store. This is where the Krag fails the test. Ammo availability sucks. I have 2 Krags and I have to load for them, otherwise I can't shoot...



Veloicites and energy from a Krag can be loaded up to the range of a .308 (if you push it) so Krag isn't any more, or less destructive than .308 to the meat. Plus, if you use a bullet like a Partition, you're not going to see much meat lost out of a .308. Nosler ballistic tips are a different story though. If you think a round nose bullet is best suited for your application, there are .308 loads for 220gr round nose bullets.




I never suggested any kind of indiscriminatory killing of bears. Did you even read what I wrote? I said:

That clearly suggests that you would be in a situation where you would be fearful for your life. Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about killing animals for no good reason...

Sorry if I infered that you would not discriminate in the killing of bears, but, there are those who would take encouragement from your statement.

With so many city boys venturing out in the woods with poor skills, a certain fear of the outdoors, all it takes is a few half remembered statements and bad movies, and anything becomes a target. I have been shot at before, thank god for poor skills.

lets get back on topic:
First we need a definition of Tactical Rifle: To me,it is the point that any rifle can be deployed in a "tactical " manner, tactical is not an inherent quality of the rifle but of the shooter. In the same manner as "sniper rifle". Tactical implies tactics, those come from the mind of the shooter not an inert bit of steel and wood. Tactical is all about mindset, determination, and planning.

Note: before the russians left Afghanistan, the primary tactical rifle of the Afghanis was the SMLE.

Second we need a definition of Guide Gun:Also to me, a "guide gun" is a rifle employed by a hunting professional in the employ of hunters. I see its purpose being to dispatch wounded game, scare away campsite intruders, and perhaps provide meat for the pot after a day of bad luck.

I see the Krag/Springfield to be qualified in both definitions (especially the carbine)

I don't much care for a scope as the only sight, in either of these applications iron sights would probably sufficce.

As far as ammo, I dont care, tactically 20 or 30 rounds out of a bolt gun and things would be over one way or another.
As a guide gun 20 or 30 round a year would probably be an over estimation.

slick_711
10-13-2009, 8:00 PM
Yeah, but we weren't discussing the values of the Krag as a "hunting rifle". We were discussing the values of a Krag as a "guide gun" or "tactical rifle" (ie: the picture I posted).

Nope, I'm pretty sure you were discussing it's values as a "Scout rifle" which is a hunting rifle... ;)

As a "scout rifle," I'd say the one pictured in that gunbroker auction looks like a damn fine rifle. The only questionable point is the caliber. .30-40 may not be ideal, but it has certainly proven itself as a hunting cartridge. The scout concept has proven itself, and the rifle in those pictures has not only a low magnification scope in quick release rings, but also iron sights with what looks to be a Williams peep rear sight. That's a pretty slick setup. Top if off with a smooth action (the handful of Krags I've handled all had silky smooth actions). I'd be proud to hunt with it. Not everyone can afford a brand new top shelf hunting rifle, and sometimes it's more fun to make due with an old handmedown or milsurp gun.

The small segment of rail on the 3 O'clock position can be done without though. :D