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View Full Version : turning a 30 to a 10/30 then back again


dieselpower
09-28-2009, 10:21 PM
I was under the impression I could take a 30rd mag, turn it into a 10/30 mag, then change it back again if I wanted. (buy a rebuild body and reuse the spring and follower)

A buddy says, No. law says permanently converted 30 to a 10/30 is legal, and that means you own 1 less legal 30 rd mag so turning it back into a 30 is manufacturing. permanently means permanently so its like destroying it and then trying to make one to replace it.

what the hive mind say?

sevensix2x51
09-28-2009, 10:24 PM
i am comfortable with the pop-rivet solution...

ps- but as stated below, i would not touch my prebans with any mods... rebuild kits go like $12 each.. well worth it...

tenpercentfirearms
09-28-2009, 10:25 PM
It says permanent.

You would be better off buying a body and converting it to a ten and leave your large caps alone.

reidnez
09-28-2009, 10:27 PM
If you are talking about 30-round magazines that you owned prior to the ban, I would hold on to those. They are valuable in that you may continue to use them in featureless AR's.

If you want 10/30's, buy some 30-round rebuilds and convert them prior to assembly. You can also buy them premade from riflegear, among others. No reason to butcher your prebans.

Gio
09-28-2009, 10:30 PM
If you are talking about 30-round magazines that you owned prior to the ban, I would hold on to those. They are valuable in that you may continue to use them in featureless AR's.

If you want 10/30's, buy some 30-round rebuilds and convert them prior to assembly. You can also buy them premade from riflegear, among others. No reason to butcher your prebans.

:iagree:

Last thing you want to do is mess up good ole legal hi-caps :D

-Gio

dieselpower
09-28-2009, 10:32 PM
so I think I am owing him a box of ammo,,,,,,:owned:

Merc1138
09-28-2009, 10:36 PM
That's an odd question, because the idea is silly. If you have 30 round mags, leave them as 30 round mags and get rebuild kits and make yourself some 10 rounders.

Sure, you could convert the 30's to 10's, but if you were gonna do that I'd assume it was because you went with a build that has evil features used for slaying kittens. If you plan to never go with a featureless build, then why would you need to make them back into 30's? And the only reason to turn 10's into 30's would be is if the law ever finally got changed in our favor, and then it wouldn't matter anyway and in the end you'd still be buying rebuild kits to repair whatever it was you did to the 30's to make them into 10/30's.

There probably isn't a legal issue, but see how odd it is?

Plus, if the SHTF(I seriously wonder what the circumstances were that occurred when the first person experienced poop in a fan and was then able to compare something later on to that experience...) and we end up in a situation where 10 round magazine limits weren't relevant, well now you're busy messing around with your magazines to make them back into 30's, and good luck getting rebuild kits. Just leave the 30's in a box to grab and be ready when the time comes.

bohoki
09-29-2009, 12:07 AM
hmm this is a good question

can one take a large cap and just block it to hold 10 for use in a bb rifle?

should it not be fine if the magazine does not hold more than 10 at that time i dont recall seeing anything in the law about the magazine being permanantly 10

it just cant hold more than 10 when fixed in the centerfire autoloading rifle

it only says a semi-automatic centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine over 10 rounds

Major Pal
09-29-2009, 3:51 AM
Why would you want to ruin legal 30s? If they were bought before 2000 they are legal and can be used with any featerless gun or any out of state gun. As well as you never no laws can get changed. (although highly unlikly in this state) Just grab some re-build kits from the many cal gun supporters here. Get a $10 pop rivet gun from the hardware store and JB weld everything. Keep your preban stuff, because if you use a pre ban mag to make your 10/30 then order a rebuild kit and use the body to make it back into a 30 it will probaly be dated and if you turn it back into a 30 it will prob be illegal. Others may know better here but as I see it you dont want a high cap mag with a date on it passed 2000...

tenpercentfirearms
09-29-2009, 6:49 AM
hmm this is a good question

can one take a large cap and just block it to hold 10 for use in a bb rifle?

should it not be fine if the magazine does not hold more than 10 at that time i dont recall seeing anything in the law about the magazine being permanantly 10

it just cant hold more than 10 when fixed in the centerfire autoloading rifle

it only says a semi-automatic centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine over 10 rounds

FUD!

PC 12020 (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

yasushi
09-29-2009, 7:09 AM
I'm glad you re-posted the PC 12020, I was thinking the same as bohoki. I guess I'll be saving my pre-bans and modifying the newer magazines "permanently".

(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

bohoki
09-29-2009, 1:57 PM
i stand corrected

a magazine blocked to 10 rounds is still a large capacity magazine but i still think it is ambigious because the listed feature

cause as it is written

2 a semiautomatic,centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds

it doesnt specity that you cannot use a large capacity only that it cannot accept more than 10 rounds

and i take that as i take the waterfoul rule about plugging a shotgun so it holds no more than 3

but there are lots of ambiguity i'm sure a 10 round magazine can accept more than 10 rounds if they are a smaller type(since it doesn't specify actual function)

to me permanent woudl be that if you took all the parts of the magazine you could not assemble them to hold more than 10 without buing replacement parts or modifying existing parts

i think a rivit is too easy to drill out but shortening the spring adding a block would be cause even if you took out the block and reassembled the sping would be so short to even load a round they would just fall halfway down the body on the the follower but i'm not a lawyer some glue a chopstick on the follower but that can be easly chopped off with a wire cutter to convert to full capacity

Merc1138
09-29-2009, 2:16 PM
This has been covered countless times. I'll just cover the points already mentioned in this thread, or that can be found via searching:

Nothing is truly "permanent", enough time and enough tools can undo just about anything. It's a matter of what can be considered reasonably permanent.

Just having a block floating in the magazine is not permanent.

Nothing says that a shotgun magazine needs to be permanently modified to only hold 2 rounds.

Having a fixed magazine that hasn't been permanently modified to only hold 10 rounds or less, creates an assault weapon.

stix213
09-29-2009, 4:05 PM
I'm pretty sure if you went from 30 rounders to 10/30's so you can use them in your fixed mag rifle, then took those 10/30's and turned them back into 30 rounders you will have just manufactured some high cap magazines since you already "permanently" converted them to 10 rounders. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure when the law says "permanently" they mean you no longer have legal high caps period even if you can physically alter them back to 30 rounders using a rebuild kit and some tools.

stix213
09-29-2009, 4:09 PM
This has been covered countless times. I'll just cover the points already mentioned in this thread, or that can be found via searching:

Nothing is truly "permanent", enough time and enough tools can undo just about anything. It's a matter of what can be considered reasonably permanent.

Just having a block floating in the magazine is not permanent.

Nothing says that a shotgun magazine needs to be permanently modified to only hold 2 rounds.

Having a fixed magazine that hasn't been permanently modified to only hold 10 rounds or less, creates an assault weapon.

Nothing you said addressed the OP's question about the legalities of converting 30's to 10/30's back to 30's.

Merc1138
09-29-2009, 4:18 PM
Nothing you said addressed the OP's question about the legalities of converting 30's to 10/30's back to 30's.

Nothing I said in that post was addressed to the OP. Read the post above it, then re-read what you quoted.

Fate
09-29-2009, 4:48 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=139687

dieselpower
09-29-2009, 8:45 PM
Since a couple people where wondering why I would ask this or think of this..

I had a RAW but sold it. I kept my 30rders. I never owned a 10rder. I built an OLL MMG, then bought a BB and evil stock. I bought two 10rds and just said, WTH...why dont I just convert some of the 30s to 10/30s and if I want or go back to MMG, I can just convert them back.

So the 30s are sitting in a box in storage once again.