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5hundo
09-28-2009, 8:31 PM
I guess CMP miss-filed my order as "complete" but they've corrected it now. My 2 Krags and barreled receiver are on the truck!!!

They're set to arrive tomorrow.

I'm dead-set on dispelling the "Junk" myth about the Krag rifles, so I'll let you all know how it goes. My last one headspaced well, so I'm hoping for two more shooters. I'll let you guys know tomorrow...

104thEngr
09-29-2009, 1:59 PM
Looking forward to seeing how they turn out. Keep us posted.

5hundo
09-29-2009, 2:26 PM
Looking forward to seeing how they turn out. Keep us posted.

I'll post some pics later tonight...

I missed the Fedex guy... :mad:

erblo
09-29-2009, 5:23 PM
Pics!

5hundo
09-29-2009, 8:02 PM
Well, it's not all bad but it's not that good either.

First of all, both of the rifles were Carbine length, which I don't really mind but I don't know enough about them to know if they're carbines, or if they were cut down to carbine length. If I had to guess, I'd have to assume the latter because the bayonet lug doesn't have the screw that goes through. Now for the good news: both rifles headspaced on a No-go gauge, so they're at least safe to shoot.

Here are some pics of the first rifle:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/IMG_4963.jpg

Both rifles are missing the rear sight, which is disappointing.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/IMG_4965.jpg

Here's a shot of the serial number. It's hard to read anyway, so I'm not going to bother blacking it out.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/IMG_4966.jpg

One rifle has a bent magazine cutoff, so that's not good but I'm sure I'll come across another one at some point.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/IMG_4967.jpg

The magazine has a block-off plate installed and an extra screw has been added to hold it in place. You can see that in the picture above.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/IMG_4970.jpg

One of the rifles is missing the front sling swivel.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/IMG_4962.jpg

Lots of dings on the stock..

Gunaria
09-29-2009, 8:05 PM
The serial number just might be in the carbine range. Is there a C or a U stamped on the front barrel band?

5hundo
09-29-2009, 8:41 PM
The serial number just might be in the carbine range. Is there a C or a U stamped on the front barrel band?

U's on both of them. The only thing that makes me think they might be bona-fide carbines is the fact that they are both the same in configuration...

Still though, I've got two shooters. It's hard to complain about that...

Here are some shots of rifle #2:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/Krag002.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/Krag001-1.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/Krag005-1.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/Krag004.jpg

...and here is an overall length comparisson to my Infantry length 1898

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/Krag006-1.jpg

5hundo
09-29-2009, 10:06 PM
In looking at these rifles a little closer, I've noticed somthing interesting that makes me think that they might be genuine carbines. Look at this picture:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/IMG_4971.jpg

The barrel is made to fit a Krag bayonet. Could that be a clue?

stevenjay1
09-30-2009, 6:52 AM
5hundo, I believe you may want to do some additional research on these two Krags. You could have something a little special.

M1899 Constabulary carbine - model built for use in the Philippines. Basically a M1899 Carbine fitted with a full length stock and a bayonet lug, and the muzzle stepped down to accept bayonet.

Also, check out these sites and forums. I'm not a Krag expert but the turn down barrel activated a few brain cells!

http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/ Look at the photos

http://www.jouster.com/forums/ go to the Krag forum

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85 The gunboards Krag forum

Let us know what you find. Steve

footdoc
09-30-2009, 2:59 PM
Very interesting... They do look like the Filipino Constabulary carbines.

Which grade did you buy? The $450 or $350? How is the bore? Do they have the firing pins?

A buddy who went to the North store said the Krags he saw had bores that are either badly pitted or shot out and most didn't have the rear sights or firing pins.

I think they would make good projects to restore, but replacement parts may be costly. I wish you good luck on your restoration project.

5hundo
09-30-2009, 4:04 PM
Very interesting... They do look like the Filipino Constabulary carbines.

I'm starting to think that this might be the case. There is a picture on the Krag Collector's site that has it listed as an "Model 1899 Carbine altered for knife bayonet and gun sling" carbine.

Can someone with an up-to-date Blue Book tell me what a ballpark estimate for one of those is? I honestly have no idea. I've been told that the carbine Krags are generally more collectable, like the saddle-ring models but I don't know about these.

Which grade did you buy? The $450 or $350? How is the bore? Do they have the firing pins? A buddy who went to the North store said the Krags he saw had bores that are either badly pitted or shot out and most didn't have the rear sights or firing pins.

I paid the extra $100 and got the MKRAGX rifles. Both have firing pins included but both had missing rear sights. The rifling on one rifle is near flawless and the other bore looks dirty but still has plenty of rifling left (I'll have a better idea when I clean it). They both have tight muzzles (one is better than the other, though) and a .308 diameter bullet makes a tight fit.

I think they would make good projects to restore, but replacement parts may be costly. I wish you good luck on your restoration project.

The one rifle is notably better than the other. It has the front sight blade, everything functions and it really only needs a rear sight to be good to go. You're right about the other one, though. It will need some work...

Army GI
09-30-2009, 5:31 PM
Nice rifles there! Don't forget about that cartridge OAL tip when you get around to reloading for it ;)

joefrank64k
09-30-2009, 6:53 PM
Can someone with an up-to-date Blue Book tell me what a ballpark estimate for one of those is? I honestly have no idea. I've been told that the carbine Krags are generally more collectable, like the saddle-ring models but I don't know about these.

This is straight from the 30th Edition of the Blue Book:

Philippine Constabulary Rifle - records from the Bureau of Insular Affairs show that the civil government of the Philippines purchased Model of 1899 carbines, and had them modified by the U.S. military at the Manila Ordnance Facility. 4,980 converted.

The absence of an authenticated example of this model precludes accurate pricing.

Nodda Duma
09-30-2009, 7:15 PM
Very nice!

-Jason

5hundo
09-30-2009, 7:44 PM
I just got off the phone with a Krag expert from Idaho.

These are aparantly known as "school rifles". The brass magazine block is actually a blank adapter that has a new feed ramp to keep the blanks from jamming up in the magazine...

Apparently, there aren't that many Philippine rifles here.

joefrank64k
09-30-2009, 7:55 PM
And in "Bolt Action Military Rifles of the World" there was this entry about the Philippine Constabulary Krag Carbine:

Officially known as the "M1899 carbine altered for knife bayonet," these carbines are actually more of a short rifle in configuration. Note the short overall length but with a stock that extends forward of the barrel band and terminating in a rifle-type nosecap. These "carbines" are extremely confusing, and were made in a number of legitimate variations.

However, virtually all of the examples seen in the U.S.A. today are actually "school guns" cut down from rifles for American military schools and were not made for the Philippine Constabulary.

fal_762x51
09-30-2009, 9:28 PM
I was always told that the PC Rifles are at the bottom of Manila Bay.

5hundo
10-02-2009, 12:22 PM
And in "Bolt Action Military Rifles of the World" there was this entry about the Philippine Constabulary Krag Carbine:

Did the book give any type of hint as to what a "school gun" might be worth?

The guy on the phone also said that the "blank adapters" are also fairly rare.

Army GI
10-07-2009, 8:49 AM
Instead of starting a new thread, I'd post mine here too:). CMP hit my CC just today for a Krag rifle! I can't wait for it to get here, I've wanted one of these since my 7th grade history teacher showed us a movie about Teddy Roosevelt called the "Rough Riders". I thought that bolt action was so cool and now I'm finally getting one:). Hopefully the receiver is strong enough to take a re-barrel.

5hundo
10-07-2009, 12:35 PM
Instead of starting a new thread, I'd post mine here too:). CMP hit my CC just today for a Krag rifle! I can't wait for it to get here, I've wanted one of these since my 7th grade history teacher showed us a movie about Teddy Roosevelt called the "Rough Riders". I thought that bolt action was so cool and now I'm finally getting one:). Hopefully the receiver is strong enough to take a re-barrel.

Cool!!!

May the Gods of the Krag shine upon you, my brotha. I hope you get a good one.

Which one did you order?

I think if you ordered an MKRAGX rifle, the barrel might still be good. That's the one thing on my 3 rifles that was universally good; they all had great barrels. They were missing other parts here and there but the barrels all had good rifling, and tight muzzles. I'm not so sure you're going to need a new one.

Post pics when you get it. It should be 2-4 weeks, if it already hit your account...

Army GI
10-07-2009, 2:36 PM
Cool!!!

May the Gods of the Krag shine upon you, my brotha. I hope you get a good one.

Which one did you order?

I think if you ordered an MKRAGX rifle, the barrel might still be good. That's the one thing on my 3 rifles that was universally good; they all had great barrels. They were missing other parts here and there but the barrels all had good rifling, and tight muzzles. I'm not so sure you're going to need a new one.

Post pics when you get it. It should be 2-4 weeks, if it already hit your account...

Yes it was the MKRAGX, I'm hoping that the barrel is pretty decent because I really don't want to rebarrel it. But I also want to hit what I'm shooting at. I'm still kicking myself for selling an 03 with an original 1921 barrel which had less than 1 for muzzle wear in a trade for a 03 Mk1 with a WWII replacement barrel (i just had to have that pederson device slot:rolleyes: ) that gauged over a 3. If my Krag shoots better than that 03 I'll be happy :).

I sure will post pics when I get it! They charged it today so I'll let everyone know when they get here:)

BTW, let me know if that tip I gave you about OAL helps next time you shoot one of your Krags..

5hundo
10-07-2009, 2:46 PM
Yes it was the MKRAGX, I'm hoping that the barrel is pretty decent because I really don't want to rebarrel it. But I also want to hit what I'm shooting at. I'm still kicking myself for selling an 03 with an original 1921 barrel which had less than 1 for muzzle wear in a trade for a 03 Mk1 with a WWII replacement barrel (i just had to have that pederson device slot:rolleyes: ) that gauged over a 3. If my Krag shoots better than that 03 I'll be happy :).

I sure will post pics when I get it! They charged it today so I'll let everyone know when they get here:)

BTW, let me know if that tip I gave you about OAL helps next time you shoot one of your Krags..

I will...

I just got some 150gr SPBTs from Midway that I'm going to try. I'll let you know how they do.

I wish I had some brass to spare for you. I've only got a little over 100 pieces myself. It's slim pickins these days... :(

Mike A
10-07-2009, 3:28 PM
The wear on them is also consistent with Phillippine (sp?) use. My grandfather served with the original Scouts (as a white officer), and the guns were used long and hard in some very rough, humid terrain. Wonder what happened to the shotguns they were also issued.....

5hundo
10-09-2009, 1:51 PM
So, I've heard from a guy who wants to trade me the "blank adapter" in my krag (pictured below), for a handful of other parts that I need to make the rifle complete. He confessed to me that this part was pretty rare, so at least he was honest with me about it but I was just wondering if anyone knew how rare they were?

I'd like to not get taken on the deal, if I can help it.

I've searched, and searched online but I cannot find anything. Anyone got a blue book of gun values, or some other reference material that might give me a clue?

Thanks in advance for the help...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e217/5hundo/IMG_4967.jpg

Army GI
10-12-2009, 12:41 PM
Whoo hoo, just got my FedEx shipment notification! It will be here tomorrow morning at 10:30!!! Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait :D:D:D

5hundo
10-12-2009, 1:25 PM
Whoo hoo, just got my FedEx shipment notification! It will be here tomorrow morning at 10:30!!! Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait :D:D:D

Let's see some pics when you get them...

Something has just been brought to my attention about the rifles I ordered. If you read the listing on the CMP website, it says that the MKRAGX rifles might be missing: firing pin, stacking swivels, some screws or other small parts

However, the MKRAGY rifles might be missing: missing firing pin, sights, stacking swivels, some screws or other small parts

Neither one of my rifles have sights. I think that the CMP sent me MKRAGY rifles instead of the MKRAGX rifles that I paid for... :mad:

Army GI
10-12-2009, 2:03 PM
Let's see some pics when you get them...

Something has just been brought to my attention about the rifles I ordered. If you read the listing on the CMP website, it says that the MKRAGX rifles might be missing:

However, the MKRAGY rifles might be missing:

Neither one of my rifles have sights. I think that the CMP sent me MKRAGY rifles instead of the MKRAGX rifles that I paid for... :mad:

Wow, Krag sights go for $100-150 now a days right? At least talk to Judy and see if you can get a refund for the difference...or even better if they can send you a sight.

Farquaad
10-12-2009, 2:40 PM
Ebay, paid 25 bucks for my 1902 sight to complete my Krag.

5hundo
10-13-2009, 8:39 AM
Ebay, paid 25 bucks for my 1902 sight to complete my Krag.

My rifle is missing the front sight (and pin), the rear sight (and screws), the front band screw, the sling swivel (and screw), the stacking swivel and the safety...

If it were "just" the sight, I could see your point but this rifle is a little more needy than just that...

Army GI
10-13-2009, 9:43 AM
Hey guys! The rifle came in at 9:16am, well over an hour early! I love FedEx:).

Unfortunately, it's not in the condition I was hoping for, but at least it's a Krag. It's an 1898, been cut down from rifle to carbine length, and is missing pretty much the same stuff as 5hundo. But it sure is pretty and the stock is in better condition than I thought. So without further ado, the pics:

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/FA_45ACP/SANY1177.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/FA_45ACP/SANY1181.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/FA_45ACP/SANY1182.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/FA_45ACP/SANY1186.jpg

Now all I gotta do is take it to the smith, make sure it headspaces and is safe to shoot, and take her out to the range. Won't hit anything because I don't have any sights so I'll just try to hit the paper:p.

5hundo
10-13-2009, 12:14 PM
Hey guys! The rifle came in at 9:16am, well over an hour early! I love FedEx:).

Unfortunately, it's not in the condition I was hoping for, but at least it's a Krag. It's an 1898, been cut down from rifle to carbine length, and is missing pretty much the same stuff as 5hundo. But it sure is pretty and the stock is in better condition than I thought. So without further ado, the pics:

Now all I gotta do is take it to the smith, make sure it headspaces and is safe to shoot, and take her out to the range. Won't hit anything because I don't have any sights so I'll just try to hit the paper:p.

Where are you at? I've got a no-go gauge and can headspace it in 30 seconds...

Army GI
10-13-2009, 2:49 PM
I'm in Fresno...

5hundo
10-13-2009, 3:41 PM
I'm in Fresno...

Hmmm....

It might be a while, but I get through there every now and then. I'm going to have to go up North at least one more time, before the Holidays...

I'll let you know before I go up there again. I'd hate to see you pay a gunsmith, unless you have to...

Army GI
10-13-2009, 3:54 PM
Hmmm....

It might be a while, but I get through there every now and then. I'm going to have to go up North at least one more time, before the Holidays...

I'll let you know before I go up there again. I'd hate to see you pay a gunsmith, unless you have to...

Hey, man I appreciate it:).

BTW, I just checked gunbroker and it does look like the 1902 sight goes for about $25 or so. I think I might pick one up from there.

But the thing that I'm really disappointed about is the cut down stock and barrel. I was really hoping to make this into a nice display rifle. I'm thinking about installing a full length original barrel on it, but the stock is still cut down so I'm out of luck. I might try looking for an unmodified stock as a replacement. Although I do admit the 22" barrel is more handy.

..so what do you think of her:D

Texwanders
10-13-2009, 5:22 PM
Also in Fresno... :)

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww127/tex_n_cal/krag_skinner4.jpg

My Krag has been in the family for a long, long time. It has seven notches in the stock, which as far as I know are for deer. :)

My Krag was "sporterized" many moons ago, so it's a shooter. I added the receiver sight shown, which requires no alteration. It does, however, make a single shot out of it :o Mine really likes 180 Ballistic Tips, as you can see....

5hundo
10-14-2009, 8:52 AM
My Krag was "sporterized" many moons ago, so it's a shooter. I added the receiver sight shown, which requires no alteration. It does, however, make a single shot out of it :o Mine really likes 180 Ballistic Tips, as you can see....

I've had really good luck with 180gr bullets, as well. I think that's the "drug of choice" for the Krags...

I'm still going to try seating the 150gr a little higher but they do much better with 180gr bullets, in my experience...

Hey, man I appreciate it:).

BTW, I just checked gunbroker and it does look like the 1902 sight goes for about $25 or so. I think I might pick one up from there.

The 1902 and 1901 sights are the ones to get. Because mine has the 1896 handgurad (with the hump on it), I'm resigned to using the 1896 sight. In that regard, I think you scored a better rifle than me. I'd much rather have a 1901 or 1902 sight on mine, but it won't fit (unless I want to change handguards).

But the thing that I'm really disappointed about is the cut down stock and barrel. I was really hoping to make this into a nice display rifle. I'm thinking about installing a full length original barrel on it, but the stock is still cut down so I'm out of luck. I might try looking for an unmodified stock as a replacement. Although I do admit the 22" barrel is more handy.

Yeah, that's disappointing. My Brother was really wanting an infantry length rifle too. They must be all out, or something. You're going to find that original, full-length stocks are fairly hard to come by. Sometimes, you can find ones that have been grafted back into original shape. Keep your eyes peeled on gunbroker and e-bay. The full lenghth barrels come up from time-to-time, as well. They range in condition from decent to atrocious.

I'm glad to see that yours was a MKRAGX rifle too because I thought they might have accidentally sent me "Y" rifles. If you go by the text of the description, the MKRAGX rifles are supposed to have sights included. I'm going to call them today and ask about that, but I'm sure that this is the last of the remaining "good" rifles. Both of mine headspaced, so it's hard to compalin about it, if you ask me. I'll let you know what they say...

..so what do you think of her:D

Your rifle is a lot like mine (although, the finish on yours appears to be a little better). I think you're missing some of the same parts as me, too. I can't tell from the pics; does your bolt have the safety selector on the back, or is that missing? (mine is :o )

I'm sure she'll be a good shooter and despite what people have been saying about these "school guns" I think they might hold their value and even come up some. I don't consider these to be "cut downs", in the true sense of the definition. "Cut down", to me, implies that some Bubba chopped off 6"-8" with a band-saw, so that it would more easily fit in his truck's gun rack. :D

Our rifles have been professionally modified and even machined to still accept the knife bayonet. Very different circumstances, IMHO...