PDA

View Full Version : Need help with C&R out of state handgun


Aircraftman
09-28-2009, 5:50 PM
Hello

I started the following thread a few days ago and thought this would be relatively easy:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3128784#post3128784

However you can see Iím having some problems finding a gun shop in the Sacto area that will do a C&R transaction of an out of state handgun.

I know performing a PPT transaction is a mandatory part of having a FFL in CA but is performing a DROS of an out of state gun mandatory too?

If not does any one know of someone in the Sacto area that could help with this?

Any info, options or ideas would be greatly appreciated. :)

Thanks!!!

ke6guj
09-28-2009, 7:05 PM
I know performing a PPT transaction is a mandatory part of having a FFL in CA but is performing a DROS of an out of state gun mandatory too?
yes, an FFL must perform PPTs. No, they do not have to do any other DROSes that they don't want to.

tenpercentfirearms
09-28-2009, 9:38 PM
A PPT only occurs when both parties both have a CA DL or military ID with station orders. So this is not a PPT.

What this would be would be a regular transfer. If the gun is truly C&R by federal guidelines and over 50 years old by state guidelines, then it is exempt from roster requirements.

Personally I don't see what the difference is if a person hand delivers their gun from out of state or ships it to me, so if the gun were exempt, I would go ahead and accept delivery from the person out of state and put them down in my bound book as if they shipped it to me with their address on it. However, that is not a PPT and my usual $50 plus $25 for transfer fees apply. Since it is coming from an individual, the BOE also considers it an occassional sale and I do not have to collect sales tax.

You might want to get in touch with www.jksupplyco.com. He is pretty reasonable minded and might be willing to do it.

ke6guj
09-28-2009, 9:44 PM
What this would be would be a regular transfer. If the gun is truly C&R by federal guidelines and over 50 years old by state guidelines, then it is exempt from roster requirements.
I don't recalll the Roster exemption requiring it to be 50+ years old in addition to being C&R. AFAIK, the Roster exemption applies to both 50+ year-old C&Rs plus <50-year-old "listed" C&Rs.

12125. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(3) Firearms listed as curios or relics, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

Aircraftman
09-28-2009, 10:05 PM
Wow - I'm confused with the roster exemption status discussion. This is a Colt Python with a 3 digit serial number that proofhouse indicates as a 1956 manuf date. That makes it 50+ years old. Is there any other consideration needed to make this a legal C&R transfer in CA?

ke6guj
09-28-2009, 10:09 PM
C&R status does not matter in this case since it would be DROSed as a PPT sale, which is already roster-exempt. But even if it wasn't DROSed as a PPT, in this case as a C&R handgun (by age), then it would be roster-exempt as well. disregard, was thinking of another C&R gun right now.


Yes, because it is over 50-years old, it is considered C&R by the feds. Because it is considered C&R, it should be exempt from the roster per the PC I listed above.

tenpercentfirearms
09-29-2009, 6:05 AM
I don't recalll the Roster exemption requiring it to be 50+ years old in addition to being C&R. AFAIK, the Roster exemption applies to both 50+ year-old C&Rs plus <50-year-old "listed" C&Rs.

I am pretty sure it has to be over 50 by CA law, but I am not sure where to find it this second. Or maybe you are right and I am thinking it either has to be on the list or over 50 years old. For some nagging reason I think it has to be over 50. I will call the DOJ this morning.

Mssr. Elegantť
09-29-2009, 9:12 PM
I am pretty sure it has to be over 50 by CA law, but I am not sure where to find it this second. Or maybe you are right and I am thinking it either has to be on the list or over 50 years old. For some nagging reason I think it has to be over 50. I will call the DOJ this morning.

A C&R firearm does not have to be over 50 years old to have C&R status in California. California only uses the Federal definition of C&R. Any C&R handgun, no matter its age, is considered C&R in California and is exempted from The Roster.

For years people have misunderstood California's "50 year old C&R long gun" exemption to Dealer transfer requirements to be some kind of California-specific definition of C&R.

wilit
09-29-2009, 9:35 PM
I am pretty sure it has to be over 50 by CA law, but I am not sure where to find it this second. Or maybe you are right and I am thinking it either has to be on the list or over 50 years old. For some nagging reason I think it has to be over 50. I will call the DOJ this morning.

The 50 year old thing is only for shipping a C&R long gun to an 03 FFL holder. If it's 49 years old, but still listed as a C&R on the Fed list, it has to be shipped to an 01 FFL according to CA law.

Aircraftman
09-30-2009, 7:21 AM
As OP I want to thank everyone for the great info shared on this thread. As a non-FFL and a relative newbie I’m still somewhat confused as to the details of the C&R laws in CA. My one real desire is to be able to bring into CA (Legally!!!) Colt Python’s as they exceed the 50 year mark. From all I’ve heard here you can do that.

However it seems I’m not the only one unsure of the laws. I started another thread a few days ago and am still amazed at the lack of understanding and outright hostility I encountered in my conversations with over 10 Sacto gun shops.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=226054&page=2


Anyway happy ending for me the guns is DROS to me now!!!!

Perhaps a good idea would be to put together a list of “super shops” that identifies business that fully understands CA gun laws and are willing to take on unusual transactions such as the one I needed. It would be nice to know when traveling to different parts of the state where one could find real help on these type issues.

Thanks again, and good day!!!

kemasa
09-30-2009, 9:14 AM
I don't think that there is any place that fully understands the CA laws, not just limited to the gun laws, but also the sales tax issues. It can be quite confusing, especially if you get different answers from the CA DOJ.

I have seen gun shops either not know the law or just not care. I am not sure as to why. I suspect in part because many places really don't try to follow the laws and if they don't know, they just assume they can not do it because they don't want to get in trouble. Often it is not worth it to them to research it (I do because I want to know the answer).

tenpercentfirearms
09-30-2009, 11:36 AM
As OP I want to thank everyone for the great info shared on this thread. As a non-FFL and a relative newbie Iím still somewhat confused as to the details of the C&R laws in CA. My one real desire is to be able to bring into CA (Legally!!!) Colt Pythonís as they exceed the 50 year mark. From all Iíve heard here you can do that.

However it seems Iím not the only one unsure of the laws. I started another thread a few days ago and am still amazed at the lack of understanding and outright hostility I encountered in my conversations with over 10 Sacto gun shops.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=226054&page=2


Anyway happy ending for me the guns is DROS to me now!!!!

Perhaps a good idea would be to put together a list of ďsuper shopsĒ that identifies business that fully understands CA gun laws and are willing to take on unusual transactions such as the one I needed. It would be nice to know when traveling to different parts of the state where one could find real help on these type issues.

Thanks again, and good day!!!
Who did you use?

Aircraftman
09-30-2009, 4:32 PM
One of the best shops I’ve ever used and a proud sponsor of Galguns – City Arms in Pacifica.

Also shout out to Gun Exchange in San Jose.

Both these guys rock!!!!

tenpercentfirearms
10-01-2009, 6:36 AM
Galguns

Where is this Galguns you speak of? Is it safe for work?

Aircraftman
10-01-2009, 3:52 PM
Oops, I think they call that a Freudian slip, two of my favorite things in life Guns and Gals (not necessarily in that order!!!)