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View Full Version : Installing Bolt Catch Roll Pin......


TomV
09-27-2009, 4:16 PM
So what's the secret to getting the bolt catch roll pin in ?

I think I've read EVERYTHING about building an AR.

I can't get the pin in the last 1/8". Taped, used punch, used vise grips. The end of the pin seems to be flattening out is what my issue is. Took it out filed it smooth, put that end in first, still no good. And as much care as I took still ended up scratching it, but not a big deal.

Help !!

Thanks.

missiontrails
09-27-2009, 4:22 PM
Brownells sells that special punch that has one side shaved off so it can go up against the side of the lower, allowing you to drive the pin straight down. The first one I ever did, I used a normal punch, and still made it in, but had to tape up the lower to protect it from scratches. Also, put a drop of lube in the hole first.

technique
09-27-2009, 4:23 PM
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=151542

If you use the proper tool....problems cease to exist.

POLICESTATE
09-27-2009, 4:27 PM
15 bucks to install a stupid pin, ugh!

I used the vise grip method to get it started, I have a flat plastic punch and a rubber mallet and carefully but deliberately punched it in. It's flush on the punch side and no quite flush on the other (but not sticking out), considering its purpose that's good enough for me :rolleyes:

Here's where I went a little stupid tho: I used the wrong spring, I used the disconnector spring because in my LPK it looked closer to what the OLL assembly guide had than what my LPK had. It still works fine but I had to go spend 5 bucks on a new disconnector spring.

cj cake
09-27-2009, 4:39 PM
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=151542

If you use the proper tool....problems cease to exist.

An improper tool can work very well too. I use these things for tons of stuff. They have smooth jaws that remain parallel at all times. They will not mark up your receivers finish. With a 10:1 mechanical advantage, they are like a little hand held arbor press.

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1368&groupID=1500

missiontrails
09-27-2009, 4:45 PM
An improper tool can work very well too. I use these things for tons of stuff. They have smooth jaws that remain parallel at all times. They will not mark up your receivers finish. With a 10:1 mechanical advantage, they are like a little hand held arbor press.

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1368&groupID=1500

Probably more $$ than a punch, and they are nickel plated- read my signature quote:)

Cal-Irish
09-27-2009, 4:54 PM
Some lube to get it started. Insert with fingers or needle nose pliers. Then some gentle light tapping.

(Did that sounds a little dirty?)

Gator Monroe
09-27-2009, 5:06 PM
This is where scratches happen most (Use lotsa black tape for sure and the methodology of pin insertion is a learning curve thing but I think the visegrip starting method worked best on my first build, though I may bone up on new ways for the second...)

swerv512
09-27-2009, 5:11 PM
some pins require lube- others dont. however, i've never had a problem with the correct size roll pin punch and a light ball peen hammer.... just take your time- it'll get easier after every one you do.
also. use the same size or slightly smaller roll pin punch and go through the hole from the opposite side to make sure the pin is going in aligned correctly...

supersonic
09-27-2009, 5:45 PM
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=151542

If you use the proper tool....problems cease to exist.

WRONG. The "proper tool" can be used to create just as much damage as an "improper tool" if used in careless hands. Learn this. Know this. Believe this.;)

supersonic
09-27-2009, 5:53 PM
Here's a secret that actually works (I got it from the guy that owns Fulton Armory): polish your roll pins on the leading edge w/ a Dremel & paste (I use Simichrome) until you take off just a bit more than the black oxide finish. That will be about .002"-.003". This is the key to successful installation without marring.:thumbsup:

technique
09-27-2009, 6:05 PM
WRONG. The "proper tool" can be used to create just as much damage as an "improper tool" if used in careless hands. Learn this. Know this. Believe this.;)

no, it is not wrong...

freakshow10mm
09-27-2009, 6:15 PM
First off, the roll pins are nothing fancy. They are available at my local Ace hardware store. So are the snap rings for the delta assembly. Buy in bulk. I bought 500 of each size.

I take one end of each pin and crush it in the vise a bit, just enough to make it tapered. Stick that end in the hole and push with your finger, which will keep it in the hole. Tap with a punch and mallet until it gets to the first tab, insert plunger, spring, bolt release, and then another quick tap to capture the assembly. Vise grip it in place, final tap sets it flush. Takes longer to explain than to do.

missiontrails
09-27-2009, 6:41 PM
The Fred and Barney methods may work for some, but I just can't figure out why people would not want the CORRECT tool for this.....

Tango_Whiskey
09-27-2009, 6:44 PM
carefully pinch one end with vice grip to make the pin tapper a little.

Greg-Dawg
09-27-2009, 7:05 PM
Tape the teeth of this and squeeze it in slowly...
http://static.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/2/0/4/large/402698.jpg

Ron-Solo
09-27-2009, 7:26 PM
An extra set of hands helps too

Vinz
09-27-2009, 8:32 PM
I just hold it with needle nose pliers and use pliers to push it in the rest of the way.
http://www.kevinholman.com/byor/pins/02%20Press%20Partway.jpg
If you had deformed the pin either replace it or feed the other end of it.

Vinz

Phil3
09-27-2009, 8:43 PM
Yes, the right tool does cost money, but it absolutely is worth it in my opinion. I wasn't about to build a costly rifle using something other than the proper tools. Substantially reduced risk of buggering something up and much easier to do on top of it.

I used a SunDevil receiver, which by its shape, makes it easier to drive in the roll pin from the stock side, making the special punch not really necessary. But, I have it anyway. Good punches from Brownells are not cheap, but worth it, IMHO.

Make sure the bolt catch hole is in line with the receiver pin hole. Use another punch or drill bit to keep it aligned. Tape it down and drive the pin in from the other side, thereby forcing the other punch or drill bit out the opposing side. The tape will hold the bit or punch in place as you drive it out. Protect the receiver with tape.

- Phil

coq
09-27-2009, 9:08 PM
My most recent build with DPMS lower parts kit had a roll pin that was too large. Would never fit, no matter what. After much pounding, I ended up sanding it down, which took of the finish...I should have just looked for another pin.

technique
09-27-2009, 9:14 PM
Coq,

thats common with DPMS rollpins/split pins....they are more often than not, not beveled like most other LPKs. Don't feel bad.

supersonic
09-28-2009, 6:10 AM
My most recent build with DPMS lower parts kit had a roll pin that was too large. Would never fit, no matter what. After much pounding, I ended up sanding it down, which took of the finish...I should have just looked for another pin.

You were actually on the right track there.;)

Acorn556
09-28-2009, 6:42 AM
1. Get over scratches
2. Use a set of pliers and squeeze it in there

It works. You REALLY have to force it though. Just remember you don't want it coming out so the force you're putting on it is keeping it from coming out.
I think mine is a little bit less than perfectly flat but the pliers kind of smashed the pin so it sits flat against the lower and it's not coming out any time soon.

shark92651
09-28-2009, 7:17 AM
1) avoid scratches
2) use a starter punch and roll pin punch

I have a scrap piece of automotive leather I lay across the lower to protect it and I tap them in with punches. Couldn't be easier.

B Strong
09-28-2009, 7:50 AM
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=151542

If you use the proper tool....problems cease to exist.

+1.

The best investment you can make after professional training is the proper tools to maintain/repair your firearms.

Agro
09-28-2009, 8:05 AM
As others have said, the oil will help. The vice grip (pliers) wrapped in tape method worked great for me. The final tiny bit I did use a punch on though. My first attempt it wouldn't go in easy. After the lube, it went in much easier. Good luck.

missiontrails
09-28-2009, 9:44 AM
1. Get over scratches
2. Use a set of pliers and squeeze it in there

It works. You REALLY have to force it though. Just remember you don't want it coming out so the force you're putting on it is keeping it from coming out.
I think mine is a little bit less than perfectly flat but the pliers kind of smashed the pin so it sits flat against the lower and it's not coming out any time soon.

So, you are recommending that he take a NEW lower and go out of his way to F__k it up, by not borrowing or purchasing a simple $13 tool, but by squeezingit with vise grips of channel locks? Your NEW car is also a TOOL, it gets you from point A to point B, so are you just gonna wash it with 1000 grit sandpaper just because the dirt comes off easier?

TomV
09-28-2009, 9:52 AM
Thanks for ALL the input.

I ordered the special punch, another set of punches, and a BUNCH of extra little parts.

The extra roll pins were DPMS, hope they work OK, I will try sanding and lubing.

I had specifically purchased an Armalite LPK to hopefully avoid any issues. But live and learn.

Thanks Guys !

till44
09-28-2009, 10:11 AM
I found using a bench vise the easiest. Tape up both sides of the vise, start the pin with a hammer, place the pin and bolt catch between the side, and then just slowly crank down the vise. Pin goes in straight, no pounding, and real easy.

missiontrails
09-28-2009, 10:19 AM
Thanks for ALL the input.

I ordered the special punch, another set of punches, and a BUNCH of extra little parts.

The extra roll pins were DPMS, hope they work OK, I will try sanding and lubing.

I had specifically purchased an Armalite LPK to hopefully avoid any issues. But live and learn.

Thanks Guys !

Good call. You are about to own one of the easiest firearms to service yourself, and owning an extra $40 in tools to service it is just a good idea. BTW, I built up 2 lowers earlier in the year with DPMS LPK's (because they were the only ones I could get) and they went together as well as any other that I used.

ar15barrels
09-28-2009, 2:55 PM
Either buy the right tool for the job and learn to use it or quit *****ing when the job goes bad on you.

Sometimes the right tool for the job is a qualified person who already HAS the tools and the experience.
I have around $700 in specialized AR tools.
These threads always make me laugh.

CHS
09-28-2009, 5:21 PM
1.) Put a lower vise block in a vise. Put lower on vise block (it goes into the magwell), making sure that the bolt catch roll pin hole is lined straight UP.

2.) Take a strip of leather about 4 inches wide, and 10 inches long (or more) and just drape it over the lower, ending at the bolt catch roll pin hole.

3.) Put the pin in a starter punch, start the pin in the hole, drive it just far enough that it stops at the inside of the bolt catch slot and will still allow you to get the bolt catch in.

4.) Insert bolt catch buffer and spring (NOT the disconnector spring) and bolt catch, hold in place with thumb

5.) Tap the starter punch once to lock the bolt catch in.

6.) Finish the job with a proper roll-pin punch.

7.) Done.

Takes 60 seconds. Easy. No blem's.

wash
09-28-2009, 6:51 PM
My method that uses the "wrong" tool:

Crimp one end of the roll pin slightly. The forces on the pin are so minuscule that crimping one end doesn't matter at all.

Get a security Torx bit, T28 I think. The roll pin will loosely fit the hole in the end of the bit. Use a screwdriver handle to hold the bit, put the un-crimped end of the roll pin in to the bit, then start the roll pin in the hole by tapping the screwdriver handle with a small hammer or something of similar mass.

After the pin is started, add the rest of the bolt hold open hardware and drive the pin home. I usually keep using the security Torx bit until it almost bottoms out on the receiver, then I switch to a hex bit and carefully tap it until it is flush.

I've done it twice. No scratches, no tape used, easy and cheap.

fairfaxjim
09-28-2009, 7:00 PM
Either buy the right tool for the job and learn to use it or quit *****ing when the job goes bad on you.

Sometimes the right tool for the job is a qualified person who already HAS the tools and the experience.
I have around $700 in specialized AR tools.
These threads always make me laugh.

34 posts about a chicken s**t roll pin makes me laugh! Oh yeah, 35 now. All these "I (scratched)(bent)(broke)(ruined) [circle one] my OLL" threads makes me think there should be some serious man card revocation action.

ar15barrels
09-28-2009, 7:39 PM
4.) Insert bolt catch buffer and spring (NOT the disconnector spring)

What's your trick for removing the bolt catch buffer and spring when they use the disconnector spring and it wedges tight in there so even the bolt catch buffer is not removable?

I have drilled a 1/16" hole on the other side of the lower to punch them out.
I tried drilling the bolt catch buffer, but it just spins in place...

ar15barrels
09-28-2009, 7:42 PM
My method that uses the "wrong" tool:

Get a security Torx bit, T28 I think. The roll pin will loosely fit the hole in the end of the bit.

That's actually about the same as using a roll pin holder and a roll pin holder IS the right tool for the job.
A roll pin holder is basically a punch that's about double the required size, but it has a hole drilled in the tip that the roll pin fits into.
It allows you to install the roll pin without the roll pin getting flared out while it's unsupported outside the reciever.
Once a roll pin is down inside a hole with metal all around it, it won't flare out anymore so you can use a proper roll pin punch that has the little tit in the middle.

wash
09-28-2009, 7:57 PM
Yeah, but it's a tool that a lot of people might have in their cheapo Chinese screwdriver bit set. That's where I got mine.

Instead of a tool that almost no one has outside of a gunsmith, it's common, easy to find, cheap and gets the job done.

Some people might go out and buy a set of vise grips because they don't want to wait for Brownells to ship out their roll pin punch or they might use vice grips because they already have them in their tool box. A security Torx bit can be found in any decent hardware store and a lot of people will already have the right bit.

CHS
09-28-2009, 8:25 PM
What's your trick for removing the bolt catch buffer and spring when they use the disconnector spring and it wedges tight in there so even the bolt catch buffer is not removable?

I have drilled a 1/16" hole on the other side of the lower to punch them out.
I tried drilling the bolt catch buffer, but it just spins in place...

I've removed a couple of Disconnector springs for people, but LUCKILY I haven't had anyone jam that buffer in bad enough that it wouldn't come out.

I would probably tell those people to call you, actually :)

In semi-related weirdness, for some strange reason lately I'm starting to see a lot of people install the hammer spring correctly, but fit the hammer to the lower with the hammer spring legs BELOW the trigger pin on the floor of the fire control group.

I had never seen it before a couple weeks ago, and since then I've seen it probably a half-dozen times.

wash
09-28-2009, 8:32 PM
If you have a wire feed welder or maybe even a stick welder, you might be able to weld on something to pull on. I would probably clamp the ground on to a piece of threaded rod screwed in to the PG bolt hole.

That's not a tool that most AR assemblers would have, so don't get it jammed up.