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obeygiant
09-26-2009, 11:16 AM
This came up in a discussion about AB962 and I started looking around to see what was available.

With the direction that CGN is heading it may be prudent to discuss infrastructure and how it can assist us in reaching as many people as possible.

The idea that I had in mind was something akin to the setup at Freedomspeaks.org This would be a base for facilitating communication to our city,county,state and nationally elected officials.

A site that Users could create letters that could be sent out via:


fax (similar in nature to a RightFax or Equisys fax server)
email (distribution lists)
mail


Organize online petitions

contact information for the media

newspaper
magazines
television
radio


contact information for those involved with firearm,ammo,accessory sales

commercial retailers
ffl's
gun shops
gun clubs
shooting ranges
online retailers


One example would be this product similar in nature to the one below but with additional features.

AMP, by Radical Designs (www.radicaldesigns.org). AMP is a toolset for content management, petitions, and online advocacy, as well as a number of mobilization functionalities like organizing meetings and shared housing. It is available as a free, open source tool, but you’ll need substantial technical expertise to install and integrate it. Radical Designs will also integrate and host it for you for additional consulting fees.

It's free to download and use but we would have to pay for support, not that we will necessarily need it though.

What does everyone think? Ideas? Suggestions?

Librarian
09-26-2009, 11:42 AM
I think the concept is generally good, excepting online petitions.

To be useful, such a site would have to be open; I've seen many such petitions signed by 'Mickey Mouse' and worse, and by repute those are pretty much ignored.

obeygiant
09-26-2009, 2:10 PM
I think the concept is generally good, excepting online petitions.

To be useful, such a site would have to be open; I've seen many such petitions signed by 'Mickey Mouse' and worse, and by repute those are pretty much ignored.

For an online petition to be valid we have to verify the identity of the signer and address of residence.

Secretary of State, State of California, “Initiative and Referendum Petition Signature Requirements,” Petition Requirements (http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/sov/2006_general/rqmts.pdf)
.

Can'thavenuthingood
09-26-2009, 9:18 PM
For an online petition to be valid we have to verify the identity of the signer and address of residence.


Is there such an animal as a VALID online petition?
One the politicians could utilize and trust?

Its been my understanding that online petitions are pretty much an effort in futility other than a gathering of email addresses, is that incorrect?

How would one go about verifying a signers identity and physical address to make the petition credible?

Vick

POLICESTATE
09-26-2009, 9:24 PM
Is there such an animal as a VALID online petition?
One the politicians could utilize and trust?

Its been my understanding that online petitions are pretty much an effort in futility other than a gathering of email addresses, is that incorrect?

How would one go about verifying a signers identity and physical address to make the petition credible?

Vick

Get all the online petition signers veri-chipped, that could help prove identity, oh wait maybe that's not such a good idea.

You would think however in this day and age that everyone would have some sort of digital signing certificate they could get to be used not just for online transactions but also things like this. Like Verisign without the big price tag.

Can'thavenuthingood
09-26-2009, 9:43 PM
Get all the online petition signers veri-chipped, that could help prove identity, oh wait maybe that's not such a good idea.

You would think however in this day and age that everyone would have some sort of digital signing certificate they could get to be used not just for online transactions but also things like this. Like Verisign without the big price tag.


Something within Calguns.net to be verified at time of registration?

Or maybe voluntarily to gain access to and participate in the Petition program?

A super duper cookie?
No, couldn't verify some else is not pushing my button.

Vick

artherd
09-26-2009, 10:58 PM
I'm only 30% confident I understand what you're getting at - and those sites 404 - but I think we're working on it.

obeygiant
09-26-2009, 11:01 PM
Is there such an animal as a VALID online petition?
One the politicians could utilize and trust?

Its been my understanding that online petitions are pretty much an effort in futility other than a gathering of email addresses, is that incorrect?

How would one go about verifying a signers identity and physical address to make the petition credible?

Vick

The site would require registration just like any other forum does. Probably require verification of residence against voter registration records. Something along the lines of Sacramento's
Voter Registration and Vote by Mail (Absentee) Ballot Lookup (https://shadow.saccounty.net/PollingPlaceLookupEn/LookupPollingPlace_VoterRegLookup.aspx)

Info on voter privacy here (http://www.calvoter.org/issues/votprivacy/pub/voterprivacy/introduction.html)

Can'thavenuthingood
09-26-2009, 11:27 PM
The site would require registration just like any other forum does. Probably require verification of residence against voter registration records. Something along the lines of Sacramento's
Voter Registration and Vote by Mail (Absentee) Ballot Lookup (https://shadow.saccounty.net/PollingPlaceLookupEn/LookupPollingPlace_VoterRegLookup.aspx)

Info on voter privacy here (http://www.calvoter.org/issues/votprivacy/pub/voterprivacy/introduction.html)

I'm looking at this from the standpoint of a politician or bureaucrat wanting to disqualify the petition.
How do you know who is driving my computer?

How will we verify it is indeed me signing the petition and not some hacker?

Vick

artherd
09-26-2009, 11:34 PM
I'm working on a way to verify the identities of most if not all calgunners who would want to participate in something like this. It would be elective.

obeygiant
09-26-2009, 11:47 PM
I'm looking at this from the standpoint of a politician or bureaucrat wanting to disqualify the petition.
How do you know who is driving my computer?

How will we verify it is indeed me signing the petition and not some hacker?

Vick
good questions, here are a couple of thoughts on how it could work.

We could assign an additional unique identifier and mail it to the user’s registration address. The user would be prompted to enter their unique identifier (or a portion of it) as part of the online petition signing process.

or

After their account had been activated through email confirmation we could generate a pin number by email that could be called in from the user's home phone to an automated phone system which in turn would validate their account.

obeygiant
09-26-2009, 11:48 PM
I'm working on a way to verify the identities of most if not all calgunners who would want to participate in something like this. It would be elective.

I thought that might be the case. Good news indeed.

obeygiant
09-26-2009, 11:51 PM
This document has some good ideas on verification: Online Signature Gathering for California Initiatives
(http://www.newamerica.net/files/OnlineSig_06_11_08_ru.pdf)

obeygiant
09-27-2009, 3:25 PM
This section comes from the California Internet Voting Task Force which was commissioned by the Secretary of State. Unfortunately it is dated
January 18, 2000.

The concern they expressed here was that if a voter/user's was left in it's original state and not required to re-authorize it could be a security risk. we could mitigate that by requiring a re-authorization request at a regular interval, quarterly perhaps.



Appendix A

California Internet Voting Task Force (http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ivote/appendix_a4.htm)

Technical Committee Recommendations

Table of Contents

4 Internet Petition Signing

Internet petition signing refers to any system in which voters "sign" official petitions, e.g. initiative, referendum or recall petitions, entirely electronically, with the "signature" and associated information transmitted by Internet to the proper agency, either directly or combined with other signatures. Only registered voters are permitted in California to sign petitions.

The Internet Voting Task Force did not consider Internet petition signing at any great length. Hence, in this report we will confine ourselves to comparing it in principle to Internet voting.

First, we should note that many of the security considerations in the design of Internet voting systems apply with little change to Internet petition signing systems as well--in particular, the fundamental distinction between systems in which the entire end-to-end voting infrastructure is controlled by the county vs. systems in which the voting platform is a home-, office-, or school PC. Systems that would allow online petition signing from a home or office PC are vulnerable to malicious code or remote control attacks on the PC that might prevent the signing of a petition, or spy on the process, or permit additional petitions to be signed that the voter did not intend to sign, all without detection. Hence, for the same reasons that we do not recommend Internet voting from machines not controlled by election officials, we cannot recommend similar systems for petition-signing until such time as there is a practical solution to the general malicious code problem and the development of a system to electronically verify identity.

While there are similarities between voting and petition signing, it is important to note that the two are not identical and they have somewhat different cost and security properties:

Petition-signing is a year-round activity, whereas voting occurs during a limited time window. Hence, servers and other infrastructure needed to support petition signing would need to be running year-round, instead of just during a time window before election day. This may dramatically increase the total cost of managing the system.

While it is reasonable to expect voters, for security reasons, to submit a signed request for Internet voting authorization each time before they vote (similar to a request for an absentee ballot), it is not reasonable to expect voters to submit a such request each time they wish to sign a petition. As a result, voters who wish to sign petitions electronically would likely have to be issued authorization (means of authentication) that are open-ended in time. The longer such authorizations are valid, the more likely it is that some of them will be compromised, or sold, reducing the integrity of the petition-signing system over time.

Voters can sign any number of petitions in an election cycle. Hence, a compromised authorization to sign petitions would be usable for signing any number of petitions, magnifying the damage to the system’s integrity.