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View Full Version : Figures on unregistered AW's in California?


09-07-2005, 1:20 PM
I am a newbie here, so I hope this isn't either a beaten to death topic, or something that is taboo...but I have a question...or an observation..or...whatever http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It seems that MOST of the law abiding, gun owners I know have at least one non- compliant "assault rifle"...many of these are not so called pre-ban. Several of the guys had bushmasters and such from other states they picked up at some point, and even one had a full auto AK-looking thing his son in the miltary brought to him as a gift from somewhere. He wanted to bring that thing out to the local range the other day...he didnt even realize is was a big no-no (he didnt even have ammo for it, either).

I don't think any of them intentionally broke the law by having them, and most are just casual owners and don't really follow the current laws. I have to think that a big chunk of unregistered assault weapons in CA are cases like this. They don't want to register now because they may (will?) be taken from them. I also don't really know the total laws, aside from they are not allowed.

Has anyone seens any articles or write ups on "normal" people breaking this law? Do you also know people who have that cheap AK clone sitting in a closet gathering dust? What could happen to these guys if they are caught...they are not criminals or thugs...just everyday joe blow that got a cheap AK from a friend or a friend in nevada a long time ago and moved to CA...they didnt realize it was a big deal...any advice?

-hanko
09-07-2005, 1:34 PM
Originally posted by XD Dude:
I don't think any of them intentionally broke the law by having them, and most are just casual owners and don't really follow the current laws. I have to think that a big chunk of unregistered assault weapons in CA are cases like this. They don't want to register now because they may (will?) be taken from them. I also don't really know the total laws, aside from they are not allowed.

If they did not register by the deadline in mid-January, 2001, they're legally sol. "Not following the current laws" is like saying "I can't google the Calif firearms website". Want to or not, they CAN'T register now because registrations been closed for quite a while...choices they have now that are legal are to turn them in or get them out of state through a prk licensed aw dealer. I'm thinking this might be the same group of people who are just casual citizens and don't really have the time due to their busy schedules to get out and vote

Has anyone seens any articles or write ups on "normal" people breaking this law? Do you also know people who have that cheap AK clone sitting in a closet gathering dust? What could happen to these guys if they are caught...they are not criminals or thugs...just everyday joe blow that got a cheap AK from a friend or a friend in nevada a long time ago and moved to CA...they didnt realize it was a big deal...any advice?

If they haven't registered their so-called AW, they are in fact now criminals, not professional criminals, but just everyday-joe criminals. Wait until they have a house fire & the guns are discovered. Then their overzealous DA will have a field day.

My only advice??...read the law. Also, I'm currently residing out of the prk & am always interested in buying just an everyday joe's rifle http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

-hanko

bwiese
09-07-2005, 3:46 PM
"Ignorance of the law" isn't a defense.

AT BEST, your friend(s) will lose their AWs. This happened to an acquaintance when ambulance/police came to his family's home (senior w/health problems and unstable younger brother w/mental issues). He thought his rifle was reg'd because he'd filled out a 4473 back in 1997 for it and waited the 10 days.

At worst, they're charged with felonies and end up with a conviction and a lifetime ban on gun ownership in ANY state.

If they have any common sense at all, they should not be shooting these rifles at local ranges, etc. or even risk transporting them - one busted taillight and it's all over.

It's useless scrap metal and legally dangerous. They should cut 'em up.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

09-07-2005, 4:41 PM
I agree with the above posts. Basically, they havent evewn messed with them in a long while...they arent taking them to ranges or transporting them...He just had remembered he had it and was going to see about bringing it out that day.

I guess I am under a "wrong" mindset though in that all these bans in CA seem absurd...especially when every time I go to the outdoor range (a public range on govt land), at least 25% of the shooters have banned weapons..AK's...30rd mags, hicap handgun mags, etc. Range officers don't care unless they get crazy with them, or they look like thugs. Most look like everyday guys who happen to have a 30rd mag! It seems like there are far more of those who just brush it off than those who turn in their rifle. being somewhat new to cal laws, I guess I am just taken back by the rediculousness of it all...but then again, I don't want to see friends get busted for something so stupid!

bwiese
09-07-2005, 7:14 PM
XD_Dude wrote:
He just had remembered he had it and was going to see about bringing it out that day.

Yes, those people just make the nicest convicted felons.

XD_Dude wrote:
I guess I am under a "wrong" mindset though in that all these bans in CA seem absurd...

Of course they're useless/absurd. You're just preaching to the choir here.


XD_Dude wrote:
...especially when every time I go to the outdoor range (a public range on govt land), at least 25% of the shooters have banned weapons.. AK's...30rd mags, hicap handgun mags, etc.

Hicap mags are legal to possess & use as long as you got 'em before 1 Jan 2000. These require no registration/paperwork and are legally a separate issue from assault weapons registration. And some of these shooters may have reg'd guns.

XD_Dude wrote:
Range officers don't care unless they get crazy with them, or they look like thugs.


Do you want a prospective felony conviction determined by the whim of a range officer? And some ranges are run by Parks & Rec Depts and local sheriff's offices so there are folks w/law enforcement authority there. You can bet if some 'incident' occurred that there could be 'inspections'.

And what about the risk of driving to the range?
Or having a fire or medical emergency at the house? All these cases could evolve into discovery of the AW and charges being filed.

And just because you're in a 'good ol' boy' area w/friendly sheriff/DA doesn't mean that things can't change or that travelling to another area will have similar favorable treatment.

XD_Dude wrote:
Most look like everyday guys who happen to have a 30rd mag! It seems like there are far more of those who just brush it off than those who turn in their rifle.

You are again confusing hicap mag possession with unreg'd AW possession. They are two separate issues, the former being entirely legal.

I am no fan of registration. But I don't want a felony conviction that prevents lifetime gun ownership. And they can store their assault rifle out of state if they didn't wanna register it.

They are risking their freedom, substantial money for fines & legal costs, and - even more importantly! - put their family at financial risk. And when they are in jail, they can't vote.

It's one thing if folks moving into CA got caught up in these stupid laws. But existing CA residents that had AWs in 1998 shoulda kept up on these things so they were not victimized by the gun nazis.

...but then again, I don't want to see friends get busted for something so stupid!

Well, then, if they have illegal unreg'd AWs they should take all the parts off and chop up the receivers. They could also store them in NV/OR/AZ but there is always risk of a traffic stop, etc. when making the trip out of state.

I'm thinking this might be the same group of people who are just casual citizens and don't really have the time due to their busy schedules to get out and vote.

Well then these guys are just stupid and lazy.

I don't know how you can be so busy you can't vote. Ever hear of absentee ballot?? And if they don't vote, and don't vote pro-gun, they DESERVE to lose their guns.



Bill Wiese
San Jose

rkt88edmo
09-07-2005, 8:00 PM
Yes, the gun laws are stupid.

Most firearm owners are not enthusiasts, and most people who aren't enthusiasts/active shooters have NO idea about the laws as they are being passed.

Many of the laws get little press and if you aren't at the gunstore reading the notices or getting a 2nd Ammendment magazine of some sort you, an otherwise law abiding citizen, will have no idea that you are now a criminal. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

When the SB23 registration happened numbers that were tossed around suggested that somewhere between 5-15% of "CA assault weapons" were registered. Those are probably conjecture.

-hanko
09-07-2005, 8:02 PM
Originally posted by bwiese:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm thinking this might be the same group of people who are just casual citizens and don't really have the time due to their busy schedules to get out and vote.

Well then these guys are just stupid and lazy.

I don't know how you can be so busy you can't vote. Ever hear of absentee ballot?? And if they don't vote, and don't vote pro-gun, they DESERVE to lose their guns.



Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bill, that was my quote. Problem is even though they DESERVE to lose their guns, we lose ours in the process. Similar to those who don't care about all gun rights as long as they can keep a bolt rifle for deer once a year.

-hanko

09-07-2005, 8:33 PM
Well...What can we do, I guess. I will pass the message along.

I am a transplant here, so I am still getting use to the law of the land here. I had wanted an AR for a while, but I guess that is out (at least until some other options come out).

JAFGO
09-07-2005, 8:37 PM
Many of the laws get little press and if you aren't at the gunstore reading the notices or getting a 2nd Ammendment magazine of some sort you, an otherwise law abiding citizen, will have no idea that you are now a criminal.

True. I recall viewing a total of two public service anouncements on TV concerning SB23 and these were during off hour outdoorsman programs, not during prime time as they should have been. Not a great deal in newsprint either dealing with registering assault weapons. Of course SB23 was all over the internet on the gun forums, but that's still only gets the attention of the hard core, computer savvy gun enthusiast, a small percentage of gun owners. There's obviously many thousands of both knowing and unsuspecting potential felons out there.

I seem to remember that the total of all registered AWs was in the neighborhood of 19,000 guns, although I don't recall the source other than I read it on the internet, so take that number with a grain of salt.

09-07-2005, 9:14 PM
Crazy. It is just not worth the risk! I hope things change someday.

artherdGROUPEESUCKS
09-09-2005, 1:46 AM
Has anyone seens any articles or write ups on "normal" people breaking this law? Do you also know people who have that cheap AK clone sitting in a closet gathering dust? What could happen to these guys if they are caught...they are not criminals or thugs...just everyday joe blow that got a cheap AK from a friend or a friend in nevada a long time ago and moved to CA...they didnt realize it was a big deal...any advice?

Advice? Yeah, STFU!

Posession of an unreg'd AW is a *FELONY*.

You can get more time for a piece of metal than you can for rape.

It's wrong, and it needs to be changed, but untill then, keep a low profile if you do have anything, and to be letter-of-law compliant, remove it from the state or destory it. Or be really gutsy and openly disobey the illegal law, then fight it in court.

saki302
09-12-2005, 8:38 AM
That's funny- most of the CA guys I know who have AW's registered them all in 2000.

Figure this:

If they ever began confiscating them, I'd move them out of state ANYWAYS (my uncle in NC would be more than happy to 'borrow' them for awhile!).

A legally registered AR/AK/etc. may be enjoyed at the local range anytime you feel like it with no worries, or shot on BLM land, etc.

Yes, I do carry my 'paperss'.

-Dave

jnojr
09-12-2005, 9:27 PM
Anyone know of someone who's actually been arrested for "possession of an unregistered assault weapon"? And not a drug dealer or gangbanger, but an average, everyday Joe who just never registered his AK for whatever reason?

As I recall, all the lawsuits over SB23 were thrown out due to "lack of standing". Someone who has been arrested and is facing prosecution has standing to sue. I'd chip in.

09-13-2005, 8:16 PM
That's funny- most of the CA guys I know who have AW's registered them all in 2000.

Figure this:

If they ever began confiscating them, I'd move them out of state ANYWAYS (my uncle in NC would be more than happy to 'borrow' them for awhile!).

A legally registered AR/AK/etc. may be enjoyed at the local range anytime you feel like it with no worries, or shot on BLM land, etc.

Yes, I do carry my 'paperss'.

-Dave

This is something I should have considered before ragging on guys who have them at the range...I suppose that they could be pre-2000, but alot of these guys look shady, too.

Anyway, I talked to the guy I know who has a full auto AK (he just moved across country), and he said he was going to get rid of it, and was (anonymously) calling his PD out there to see what options he had, like a anon. turn in program or something. I actually think he didnt even really know how to load it, he just got it from someone else a while back. I just told him...Don't friggin tell anyone about it! I never heard anything!

Scary stuff, though!

MaceWindu
09-13-2005, 10:35 PM
This should help some of you guys:

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

Bill, you are very articulate and know your stuff. I agree with you 99% of the time. But cut up your "AW"?!

Nah....also, how would a busted tail light get your car searched?

(I am not an advocate of breaking the law, but the law and justice are rarely one and the same)

MW

bwiese
09-14-2005, 1:34 AM
Originally posted by MaceWindu:
This should help some of you guys:

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

Bill, you are very articulate and know your stuff. I agree with you 99% of the time. But cut up your "AW"?!

Nah....also, how would a busted tail light get your car searched?

I'm not a tinfoil hat brigadeer.

If you're scruffy looking, etc. it's pretty easy to get searched. Maybe the search gets thrown out, maybe not. Maybe it's a peripheral issue that causes the search - 'mistaken identity'. We all know that cops do 'test-a-lie' in court.

What happens if you're in a traffic accident (rear-ended) and trunk pops open, for example?

Having an unreg'd AW in CA puts you at least at some risk of a FELONY esp near a metro area. And felony = lifetime firearms ban.

Aside from the car stop, what about storage in the house? There are any number of reasons cops can go in...

An acquaintance of mine lost his AR10T about 10 months ago to cops. He was threatened w/felony charges if he didn't surrender it. No 'nice guy' cops even allowed him chance to move it out of state quickly, though they did let him keep the scope+mount on it.

How did this happen?

He lives w/extended family (incl feeble senior citizen, and slightly mentally disabled brother). Guns were in secure locker. Somehow 911 was called while he wasn't home due to some medical/unstability issue w/elder. Cops somehow found AR10T was in house (safely stored) and found it wasn't reg'd as AW.

He probably made some mistakes and disclosed too much and ended up in this predicament, but this kinda thing could happen anytime an emergency happens at your house. [This poor-but-stupid guy had thought his AW was reg'd because he'd filled out a 4473 along with 10 day wait in 1998.]

You're betting your future on sheer luck that you can get your gun safely out of state. That's a pretty expensive $1000 gun if you're charged w/felony, lose your gun rights, pay $20+K in lawyers fees, do some jail time (or more likely, pay a substantial fine).

If you found yourself in this situation, better to scrap the receiver w/a saw and sell the 'parts kit' materials to someone (the latter which is legal).

Bill Wiese
San Jose

SI-guru
09-14-2005, 3:20 AM
This thread sounds like a troll bait.
Someone spent 5 of his total 9 precious posts in this forum just to repeatedly trying to get people saying its ok to do illegal things because he is seeing many people doing it.
It's not ok, it's illegal and you should not provoke people to say otherwise.

09-14-2005, 8:42 AM
Are you kidding me? How have I provoked others? All I asked for is what the statistics were...I am new to CA, and its laws, and I know some people who are also in the same boat as me as far as knowledge of the laws. I never thought it was OK to own them...hence the reason I don't.

If you are worried about how many post I have or what I say, then I am flattered you care so much...but you have too much time on your hands. I see ALOT of people on here with a hell of a lot more posts than you, too...

Since It's not OK to be new around here, and since you apparently never had 10 posts, I'll see you all later.

Asshat!

C.G.
09-14-2005, 9:23 AM
Originally posted by XD Dude

Since It's not OK to be new around here, and since you apparently never had 10 posts, I'll see you all later.

Asshat!

It is OK to be new around here, but it would be a lot better without the name calling! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

bwiese
09-14-2005, 12:14 PM
10thAmendment...

The subject discussed was generally addressed, and in a general open discussion - not specific orders to a specific person or group, and was not an exhortation.

My (extremely brief, on the way out of house) read of Brandenburg v Ohio seems to require a law set up like Ohio's 'criminal syndicalism' law, which does not (?) exist in CA. There was also a gathering involved in Ohio case and the speech involved in this case was directly linked to actions.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

09-14-2005, 12:27 PM
There could be some truth to the story of the guy loosing his AR to PD answering a call.

I understand that it is SOP when responding to calls that AW registration and other gun info is provided via radio to those responding.

Secondly, if the call is a 5150 or other call dealing with unstable people they (PD) would go after any firearms in the home that could pose a threat.

maxicon
09-14-2005, 1:39 PM
Nah....also, how would a busted tail light get your car searched?

Cop pulls you over for a busted tail light, says he smells marijuana, and whoomp! There it is! Not all cops are rational, reasonable people, and some have been known to lie to get their way.

All they have to do is not like the way you look or act. It's a risk.

My 17 yo daughter and her friends got pulled over in Campbell the other night for a license plate light out. It happens all the time. They were polite and reasonable, and the cop didn't roust them, but it could have happened just as easily.

max