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View Full Version : 09/25/09 - BLM closes Carrizo Creek Range?


DukeofSD
09-25-2009, 12:21 PM
Is Airport Mesa the same area as the Carrizo Creek Range?


copied from - http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/newsroom/2009/september/CDD0971_airportmesashoot.html

Release Date: 09/25/09
Contacts: David Briery , 951-697-5220
Stephen Razo , 951-697-5217



BLM closes Airport Mesa recreational shooting for safety reasons


The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has closed 210 acres of public lands near Airport Mesa in eastern San Diego County to recreational shooting due to concerns that shooting is putting U.S. Border Patrol agents in danger. Officials state that the closure order is effective as of September 23 and signs will be posted as quickly as possible.

Vicki Wood, BLM El Centro Field Manager, said the U.S. Border Patrol officially requested the closure out of concern that necessary increased border security activities in the area in close proximity to the recreational shooting is placing the agents "in the line of fire or in danger of ricochet bullets," according to the BP request.

"The safety of Federal officers in performance of their duties is important to everyone," Wood said. "The closure of this popular recreational shooting is unfortunate, but the closure is necessary to protect the agents who are patrolling our borders."

She added that this indefinite closure will allow BLM to go through its land use plan amendment process to both permanently close the area and review options. "We understand this area is important for the recreational shooting public because most of the land in San Diego County is restricted from shooting. These displaced users will want to know where they might practice their sport. The nearest BLM areas are in Imperial County and we recognize the users will want us to explore closer areas, if available, as part of that planning process. We welcome their input."
The official shooting restriction notice will be published in the Federal Register. The closure order is under the authority of 43 Code of Federal Regulations 8364.1, which includes penalties for violations, including fines and jail sentences. The order can be obtained by contacting the El Centro Field Office at (760) 337-4400.

POLICESTATE
09-25-2009, 12:23 PM
Very nice of them to offer an alternative location, too bad it's pretty far away. I have a suggestion to BLM, just set up a range next to the border, they can use the fence as a backstop.

Gunaria
09-25-2009, 12:24 PM
This sucks for you SD area shooters.:mad:

DukeofSD
09-25-2009, 1:14 PM
It looks like they are closing the whole area.

Has anyone been up there recently?

I haven't been there in a couple of years and it looks like most of the Carrizo Creek (http://www.carrizocreekrange.org/) web site is down.

http://www.carrizocreekrange.org/

DukeofSD
09-28-2009, 10:58 AM
Did anyone go out to Carrizo Creek this weekend?

Are there signs up or barricades?

Let us know how the Border Patrol reacted to people that hadn’t heard about the closure.

Are they recommending another area for shooters or are they giving the usual “find a new hobby” line. :rolleyes:

Flintlock Tom
09-28-2009, 1:15 PM
Maybe we can use this as leverage to get the Kitchen Creek range re-opened.

DukeofSD
09-29-2009, 12:16 PM
I’m surprised that there is not more interest in this topic.

This is one of just a few areas left near San Diego that was still open for shooting.

I guess we will hear more about it after the “fire season” is over and people head back out there to shoot and find out that it is closed.

I hope someone chimes in that has been out there in the last few days to let us know how it is being enforced. Hopefully the Boarder Patrol agents are understanding when they “inform” people about the new restrictions. (i.e.: warning instead of fine)

1919_4_ME
09-29-2009, 12:56 PM
How come no one has organized a BIG protest ralley at the BLM office? Maybe the news would pick this up?:confused:

Untamed1972
09-29-2009, 1:34 PM
Yeah.....that pretty much does suck since that was really the only easily accessible open shooting area in all of SD county, and suggesting that people will have to drive to another county even further away to use public land really sucks. I can understand needing to move the area to make way for increased border security....but to close the only area left open without making another area immediately available really sucks.

rumblebee
09-29-2009, 2:40 PM
Is this for sure Carrizo? Hard to tell from the link
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/newsroom/2009/september/CDD0971_airportmesashoot.html

Carrizo is from San Diego:

HW 8 East about 65 miles
EXIT Jacumba
Turn LEFT at Carrizo Gorge Road
Follow road about a mile
Turn LEFT at OLD HW 80
Follow road about a mile
CCR is between mile marker 37 and 37.5
Turn RIGHT into the area BEFORE bridge


If so....there has been big problems of trash\etc left behind for a while now. I know the closure was for BP safety reasons...but, could also be the trash and they are leveraging off the BP side?

zman
09-29-2009, 3:24 PM
Very nice of them to offer an alternative location, too bad it's pretty far away. I have a suggestion to BLM, just set up a range next to the border, they can use the fence as a backstop.

LOL. :43:

sd_shooter
09-29-2009, 3:29 PM
Here's where the government thinks Airport Mesa is:
(look a few pages into the PDF file, there is a map)

Can anyone tell us if that's the same spot as Carrizo Creek?

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/border_security/ti/ti_docs/sector/san_diego/sd_a2m/sd_a2m_archives/july07_sea/sea/july07_cover_section_1.ctt/july07_cover_section_1.pdf

stormy_clothing
09-29-2009, 5:24 PM
after all it's not like we just spent a katrillion dollars on a new border fence or anything.

bet they just dont want you guys shooting at all the people they let get through

rumblebee
09-29-2009, 5:37 PM
Crap... not looking good! :eek:

http://www.myspace.com/carrizocreekrange

What IS the Carrizo Creek Range?

Out highway 8 in San Diego California lies about 200 acres of OUR PUBLIC land, managed by the BLM (Bureau of Land Management) which is 100% open to the public as MULTI-USE LAND. This land, known as the Carrizo Creek Range, Airport Mesa, and/or the Jacumba Shooting Area has been utilized by recreational shooters for generations because of its great location and terrific terrain features. Unfortunately, for every 100 users of this land, there are the 10% who are not responsible and have caused a severe build up of trash which could possibly cause the range to be closed off to the public. As you are aware, this has happened in the past; unfortunately there was no one to be proactive and prevent the closure process before it started. WE CAN BE PROACTIVE AND PRESERVE THIS RANGE!!!

DukeofSD
09-29-2009, 6:16 PM
I have been hoping that someone that has been out there in the last few days would report back and let us know what is going on out there (signs or?).

I know that the BP had closed down the original “main area” a while back and people had to take the next dirt road to the east.

I spoke with a girl at the BLM # today and it sounded like the whole area is shut down.

Both the closure notice and the CCR web site refer to the area as about 200 – 210 acres.

Hopefully someone will report back after this weekend with some firsthand information. The handful of times that I went out there a couple of years ago it seemed like half of east county was out there every weekend, so I would think that someone should report back soon.


How come no one has organized a BIG protest ralley at the BLM office? Maybe the news would pick this up?:confused:

GOOD IDEA!

loather
09-29-2009, 7:31 PM
it's the same area.

I was planning to go out there this weekend because the weather is supposed to cool down. Looks like I'll have to head out to Ocotillo to sight in my rifle instead.

One by one, they chip away at our shooting areas. I swear, one day I'm going to buy up a bunch of land, build an indoor/outdoor range on it, and put the property into an indefinite trust with stipulations that it can only ever be used as a firing range.

I just wish there were somewhere convenient to where I am in Escondido. No matter where I go, it's always a drive. *sigh*

DukeofSD
10-02-2009, 3:04 PM
copied from the L.A. Times Sports page - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2009/09/shooting-range-closed.html


Popular San Diego shooting range closed due to safety concerns
September 28, 2009 | 12:28 pm





A popular outdoor shooting area in eastern San Diego County has been closed indefinitely because of concerns about local Border Patrol agents safety.

The Bureau of Land Management has shut down the 210-acre Airport Mesa/Carrizo Creek range to the public effective immediately at the request of the U.S. Border Patrol.

The area, popular for recreational shooting and target practice, is located in an expanse that has seen increased border security activities of late. The U.S. Border Patrol officially requested the closure out of concern that the range is putting agents "in the line of fire or in danger of ricochet bullets," according to the request.

"The safety of federal officers in performance of their duties is important to everyone," said Vicki Wood, El Centro field manager for the BLM. "The closure of this popular recreational shooting [area] is unfortunate, but the closure is necessary to protect the agents who are patrolling the borders."

Those violating the closure order risk penalties including fines and prison sentences.

"Displaced users will want to know where they might practice their sport," added Wood. "The nearest BLM areas are in Imperial County and we recognize users will want us to explore closer areas, if available. We welcome their input."

-- Kelly Burgess

Photo: Spent shells and casings litter the ground at an outdoor shooting range similar to the Airport Mesa/Carrizo Creek range. Credit: Myung J. Chun / Los Angeles Times


I guess L.A. is more interested in this than San Diegans.
I haven't seen this in the U.T.
Maybe we should give them our input!

DukeofSD
10-02-2009, 3:20 PM
copied from - http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ca/pdf/elcentro.Par.65362.File.dat/airportmesa_closure.pdf

U.S. Department of Interior
Bureau of Land Management
CLOSURE ORDER

Notice is hereby given that effective on this date and pursuant to 43 CFR 8364.1, the public lands
described as the Airport Mesa/Carrizo Creek shooting area covering approximately 210 acres are
closed to the public for recreational shooting and target practice.
San Bernardino Base and Meridian (SBBM),
Township 18 South, Range 8 East,
Section 3,
S½S¼SE¼, portion south of Hwy. 80, (20 acres, more or less);
Section 10,
N½NE¼ (80 acres);
SE¼NE¼ (40 acres);
Lot 9 (17.15 acres);
Section 11,
SW¼NW¼ (40 acres);
Lot 12 (13.05 acres).

These lands managed by the El Centro BLM Field Office, are located in eastern San Diego County,
California. Be advised that the other BLM managed public lands of the El Centro Resource Area are
unavailable for shooting due to the lack of identified designated shooting areas as defined by the
Eastern San Diego County Resource Management Plan signed and dated June 2006. This Closure
Order is necessary to protect US Border Patrol agents as they perform their duties along the top of Airport Mesa.

The following persons are exempt from the identified restrictions:

1) Federal, State, or local law enforcement officers, while engaged in the execution of their official duties.

2) BLM personnel or their representatives while engaged in the execution of their official duties.

3) Any member of an organized rescue, fire-fighting force, or emergency medical services organization while in the performance of their official duties.

4) Any person in receipt of a written authorization of exemption obtained from the authorized officer.

5) Any person with a legal California hunting license in their possession and in the legal act of hunting.

This Notice and maps of the restricted area will be clearly posted at main entry points to the Airport Mesa shooting area which is affected by this Order and will also be available at the BLM El Centro Field Office.

This Closure Order is effective on the date signed below and stays in effect indefinitely.

Failure to comply with this order is punishable by a fine not to exceed $1,000 and/or imprisonment not to exceed 12 months pursuant to 43 CFR, subpart 8360.0-7

BLM El Centro Field Office, 1661 South 4th St., El Centro, CA. 92243 (760) 337-4400

Approved By: _/s/ Vicki L. Wood________________ Date: ___09/23/09
BLM Authorized Officer, Vicki Wood,
_____________
Field Manager, El Centro Field Office,

rumblebee
10-02-2009, 3:32 PM
Love the photo, which just adds fuel to the fire-

Photo: Spent shells and casings litter the ground at an outdoor shooting range similar to the Airport Mesa/Carrizo Creek range. Credit: Myung J. Chun / Los Angeles Times


Just how many BP agents have had close calls or actually been injured by rec shooters, would be my question. If that is the case, I can see the closure.

I'm all about safety...but, this one has the faint odor of "we just don't want shooters there, period"

Turbinator
10-02-2009, 3:40 PM
210 acres, and too bad they have to close it ALL down.

This is why we need to be responsible shooters AND clean up after ours and other people's messes. Sucks for you guys in the area - good luck finding a new spot close by.

Turby

rumblebee
10-02-2009, 4:09 PM
Amen...just give us 50-100 acres or so :D

We still have Orosco and some others (for now). Orosco is getting an organized clean up soon (some CG members and DFG). :jump: It's scheduled to open back up Nov 1st, after fire season.

There is always the $ ranges...but, I'd rather not pay to shoot, if I don't need to.

210 acres, and too bad they have to close it ALL down.

This is why we need to be responsible shooters AND clean up after ours and other people's messes. Sucks for you guys in the area - good luck finding a new spot close by.

Turby

DukeofSD
10-05-2009, 8:44 AM
Has anyone gone out there yet?

scoutsniper687
10-05-2009, 12:06 PM
Yes I have. I wen't out there about a week ago on 09/29/09 I was on my way to brawley so I didn't have time to shoot but with the recent hipe about the range I took my truck off roading and saw NO SIGNS, NO B.P., and No one around but a big 40 yard trash can. There were a few left over targets out there but I saw no sign of it beings closed off. This doesnt meen if you went out there though BP wouldnt stop you and tell you to go away. Is Jucamba imperial valley or is it still San Diego?

Bentot
10-05-2009, 12:28 PM
It's still San Diego County, however without a clearcut advisory to it being closed, I'm not driving all the way from Chula Vista only to be turned away by the Border Patrol.

scoutsniper687
10-05-2009, 3:59 PM
You know I do remember ...when you come to the start of the dirt road there are two paths to chose and one was blocked by a line of small debri like someone didnt want you to drive that way but other wasnt blocked so I don't know. Im going to do some research.

scoutsniper687
10-05-2009, 4:14 PM
UPDATE: I have contacted the BLM Project Manager for the San Diego area and waiting for a response back.

rumblebee
10-05-2009, 4:35 PM
SS687...thanks.

b******c
10-07-2009, 3:45 PM
I went out to the range on Sunday, October 4 2009, and there was a border patrol officer in his truck just as you pull off the road into the dirt. I asked if the range was open and he told me that BLM shut it down.

scoutsniper687
10-11-2009, 9:04 PM
well hell they can only close so F***** many before we have NOWHERE TO SHOOT! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....sorry just pissed off at all the F***** liberals.

"Oh guns are scary and guns kill people nobody should have guns they are bad. Lets close all of there shooting ranges maybe theyll go away"

If BP doesnt like being in the way of bullets then tell them to not be down freaking range. Somone made a good point...lets make our backdrop the border then we have solved all the problems.

diginit
10-11-2009, 9:07 PM
Border Patrol agents are ALWAYS in danger. WTF. Closing another range to law abiding gun owners won't make it any safer.

DukeofSD
10-12-2009, 11:05 AM
I decided to take a drive up there on Saturday (10/10/09) to see what is going on for myself. The original Carrizo Creek Range area has no shooting signs and has had a thorough cleaning. All of the trash that was large enough to pick up was in a big blue dumpster waiting to be hauled away.

I continued to drive east on old hwy 80 until I reached the small Boarder Patrol check point (on hwy 80). I spoke with a BP agent and asked if there was an open shooting spot in the area. The BP agent said that the area off of the In-Ko-Pah road off ramp is still open for shooting. He told me to go to the visitors kiosk on the south side of old hwy 80 and take the dirt road to the west. He said told me to make sure that I went back in far enough to get off of the private property and to shoot at the rocky hill to the east. I was driving a car so I decided to come back on Sunday (10/11/09).

I took a group of 8 people in three vehicles up there on Sunday (10/11/09). I spoke with a BP agent at a gas station on Carrizo Gorge Rd. and he advised us to turn onto the dirt road as if we were going to the Carrizo Creek Range and to drive toward the boarder fence and to turn left at the boarder fence and follow the BP dirt road until it runs into the rocky hill to the east. He then said to turn to the left, find a spot, and shoot at the hill. I think his reasoning for the round-about way in was to keep us off of the private property. The other dirt road had several “private property – no shooting” signs, but it looks like the area closer to the boarder is open for shooting. We shot for 3-4 hours without any interruption from BP. They drove by on the main dirt road several times and didn’t seem to have any interest in us. We were one of about 5-10 groups of shooters out there on Sunday and didn’t have any problems with BP or BLM.

Recap of important info:

1. It seems that the In-Ko-Pah shooting area is still open.

2. The info has not yet been confirmed with BLM.
(it’s Columbus Day:rolleyes:)

3. The info from BP was from agents not supervisors, but all 4 agents
(3 first day, 1 second day) were very nice and had no problem with
people legally shooting in that area.

4. Keep off of the private property. (I’m not sure if the dirt road to the
east is a private road or if the private property signs are referring to
the property next to the road.)

5. It seems that the BP considers the Airport Mesa area is just the hill
that was the backstop for the Carrizo Creek Range.

6. Be careful (You will be shooting at a big pile of rocks.)

7. CLEAN UP (The place is a mess.)


I hope this helps,

Duke of SD

AEC1
10-14-2009, 7:30 AM
I think we should press to re-open the Buckman springs area that was closed years ago, i grew up shooting there, and loved it....

Alaric
10-14-2009, 1:10 PM
In addition to In-Ko-Pah (BLM) and Orosco Ridge (USFS), there's also the shooting spot off Nate Harrison Grade Rd. on the western flank of Palomar Mtn. in north county. Has anyone been up there lately and does anyone know the status of this land? Is it private, BLM, USFS, or what?

It sucks to lose another shooting area with so few left. We should get organized and start a campaign to open up more public land to our sport.

DukeofSD
10-15-2009, 7:18 AM
I received a voice mail from David Briery (951-697-5220) at the BLM yesterday (10/14/09). He said that Daniel Stuart (760-352-0737) is the person that knows most about the Airport Mesa area. I called Mr. Stuart and received a voice mail back from him yesterday. He said that the In-Ko-Pah area is not affected by the Airport Mesa closer because that side of the valley is all privately owned land.

What I found out about In-Ko-Pah:

- BLM says it’s O.K. for shooting

- Boarder Patrol says it’s O.K. for shooting

- Land owner has “no trespassing – no shooting” signs up near the road, but I didn’t see any signs by the boarder

Good Luck,
Duke of SD

DukeofSD
10-16-2009, 7:13 AM
BTT - for weekend shooters

rumblebee
10-19-2009, 3:16 PM
Anybody have a chance to check out the doc posted on DFG' site?

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ca/pdf/elcentro/nepa/2010/ea.Par.14008.File.dat/ca670_1001_airportmesa.pdf

Priming us for more closures down the road, perhaps? :rolleyes:

Beneficial Effects: Closing 210 acres of BLM administered lands at Airport Mesa would reduce hazards from stray and ricocheting bullets landing near or hitting BP agents patrolling along the top of the hill. Trash and debris left on the public lands from 2
shooters would be reduced or eliminated. Noise from the discharge of guns and rifles would also be reduced. The reduction in vehicle traffic, trash dumping and high-impact public use may allow some disturbed land to recover. This would improve potential habitat for plants and wildlife including special status species.
Adverse Effects: Closure of Airport Mesa may displace shooters, causing them to move to other areas to practice this activity. There could be impacts to adjacent lands such as illegal dumping, safety concerns, or conflicts with private land owners.
2. The degree to which the proposed action affects public health, safety and sanitation. The proposed project will have a beneficial effect on public health and safety by reducing hazards from stray and ricocheting bullets landing near or hitting BP agents patrolling along the top of the hill.

corrupt
03-25-2010, 12:21 PM
Has anyone been out to in-ko-pah lately and is it hard to get to in a car?

Isaiah4Autumn
03-25-2010, 3:27 PM
Very nice of them to offer an alternative location, too bad it's pretty far away. I have a suggestion to BLM, just set up a range next to the border, they can use the fence as a backstop.

Just fell out of my chair laughing...

leoffensive
03-27-2010, 3:04 PM
last time i went out there to shoot it was the day after halloween of 2009. there is an area to the east that is still open.(i always talk to the BP to make sure im not gonna be shooting at any of them) the down side to this area is that your shooting at rocks.

its so frustrating that they close all these places down. its total bull. BLM land is supposed to be "our" land.