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Major Pal
09-24-2009, 8:05 PM
Ive been reloading for a couple of years now, but still am a beginner. Im using both Lee and RCBS equipment and the Lee book. A friend of mine from the range just gave me a HUGE amount of supplies (powder, primers and bullets). He gave me a ziplock bag with thousands of .223 bullets, the bag has written on it 64 grains but they really weigh between 64.5 and 64.8. My book doesnt have any info on how much powder to use at this weight. Is there any place on the net that has a more complete list of how much to load for different weights and different powder? Also I have a lifetime supply of DU-PONT Hi-Skor 700X is that the same as IMR 700X? Because the Hi-Skor 700X isnt in my book either. Thanks in advance.

BigBamBoo
09-24-2009, 8:09 PM
.........

halifax
09-24-2009, 8:17 PM
I'm pretty certain the two can be used interchangeably but not in rifles. They are shotgun powders with some pistol cartridge use.

Major Pal
09-24-2009, 8:20 PM
I;m pretty certain the two can be used interchangeably but not in rifles. They are shotgun powders with some pistol cartridge use.

I was going to use it for .45 ACP because the guy gave me 5000 already primed cases and atleast that amount of 230 grain FMJ Winchester bullets. Not to mention like 15 pounds of that powder!

halifax
09-24-2009, 9:32 PM
I was going to use it for .45 ACP because the guy gave me 5000 already primed cases and atleast that amount of 230 grain FMJ Winchester bullets. Not to mention like 15 pounds of that powder!

I have only one manual with 700X data in it: Sierra 5th Edition.

230gr 1.270 OAL

3.9gr 700fps

5.0gr 850fps

PonchoTA
09-24-2009, 9:41 PM
You should buy as many reloading manuals as your can. I personally have 7-8.

To get a starting load for a given bullet weight you should know the mfg. of said bullet(s).

As for powders...different mfg.er's have different burn rates so no...Hi Skor and IMR will be different....maybe not by a lot, but you never know. I use both IMR-4350 and H4350...they are close in burn weight but are still a bit different.

Take care,Stan

I don't really get this part. I mean, physics is physics. A 64-grain bullet weighs 64 grains. It really shouldn't matter who made the bullet, because a Speer 64 grains isn't any different than a Hornady (or whatever) 64 grain bullet, is it? I mean, they are shaped nearly the same, the weights are near identical (within a couple of sigma or so of deviation).

I would think that the powders would be the defining variance in the charges, not the bullets, so THEIR charge data would be more of an authority in the manufacture of a round.

Or am I reading this wrong?

.

ar15barrels
09-24-2009, 9:46 PM
Those 64gr bullets are probably winchester powerpoints as those are the only 64gr bullet commonly sold in bulk like that.

Major Pal
09-24-2009, 11:17 PM
I don't really get this part. I mean, physics is physics. A 64-grain bullet weighs 64 grains. It really shouldn't matter who made the bullet, because a Speer 64 grains isn't any different than a Hornady (or whatever) 64 grain bullet, is it? I mean, they are shaped nearly the same, the weights are near identical (within a couple of sigma or so of deviation).

I would think that the powders would be the defining variance in the charges, not the bullets, so THEIR charge data would be more of an authority in the manufacture of a round.

Or am I reading this wrong?

.

Thats what I thought, I wasnt really looking for what brand of bullet they were but some info on loads for this weight. My book goes from 63 grain bullets to 68, and the section on 63 grain only has two types of powder neither of which I have. Ive got a large supply of IMR 4064, Reloader 15 and H322. I got all of these supplies for free and just wanted to take advatage of them to stock some ammo.

ar15barrels
09-24-2009, 11:59 PM
I don't really get this part. I mean, physics is physics. A 64-grain bullet weighs 64 grains. It really shouldn't matter who made the bullet, because a Speer 64 grains isn't any different than a Hornady (or whatever) 64 grain bullet, is it? I mean, they are shaped nearly the same, the weights are near identical (within a couple of sigma or so of deviation).

You are right.
You really don't get it.

Different bullets of the same weight are NOT shaped the same.
They have different lengths which changes the available powder capacity.
They have different amounts of bearing area which changes bore friction.
They have different hardnesses which changes obturation forces.
You really don't get it.

Data is specific to a bullet because that data then accounts for all those factors.

Major Pal
09-25-2009, 12:24 AM
You are right.
You really don't get it.

Different bullets of the same weight are NOT shaped the same.
They have different lengths which changes the available powder capacity.
They have different amounts of bearing area which changes bore friction.
They have different hardnesses which changes obturation forces.
You really don't get it.

Data is specific to a bullet because that data then accounts for all those factors.


Well I have no idea what brand they are just that they are similar to some Sierra Splitzer bullets I have and are 64 grains. Plus are bulk because the guy gave them to me in a freezer ziplock bag that weighs a ton. there must be like 4000-5000 in there! Didnt want to be all that accurate just make some plinking loads, plus the book I've been using doesnt even talk about types of bullets just weights and types of powders.

ivanimal
09-25-2009, 1:33 AM
I found nothing for the 64 grain but a bunch for the 63 grain. I would use those recipes minus 5 to 10 percent and work your way up, always looking for signs of pressure. Just go to the IMR powders website and follow the links to their 223 data. They list 11 powders that will work for 63 grain loads. The real difference between bullets is when you substitute lead for jacketed. That data will not work and should never be used. Randall is right that there are specific books that deal with specifics in bullet shape and efficiency. For your needs they are just not that specific. For example I regularly substitute Speer bullets in a Hornady manual. Unless you are trying to make the ultimate target rifle small differences are acceptable. Never ever load to a max within a published load. Start low on the chart and increase the powder by half a grain till you get an accurate load. There are suggested loads out there if you google Winchester power point 64 grains. I just dont trust data from just anyone.

Major Pal
09-25-2009, 1:45 AM
I found nothing for the 64 grain but a bunch for the 63 grain. I would use those recipes minus 5 to 10 percent and work your way up, always looking for signs of pressure. Just go to the IMR powders website and follow the links to their 223 data. They list 11 powders that will work for 63 grain loads. The real difference between bullets is when you substitute lead for jacketed. That data will not work and should never be used. Randall is right that there are specific books that deal with specifics in bullet shape and efficiency. For your needs they are just not that specific. For example I regularly substitute Speer bullets in a Hornady manual. Unless you are trying to make the ultimate target rifle small differences are acceptable. Never ever load to a max within a published load. Start low on the chart and increase the powder by half a grain till you get an accurate load. There are suggested loads out there if you google Winchester power point 64 grains. I just dont trust data from just anyone.

Thanks Ivan I guess I just have to play with it and load just a few rounds at a time till I find something that works. Thanks for all your help.

freakshow10mm
09-25-2009, 5:10 AM
Buy a Hodgdon reloading manual. It has data for all IMR (formerly DuPont), Winchester, and Hodgdon brand powders. 700X is an IMR powder now. Use that data and load up carefully. Over time the burn rates have changed and this will effect pressure building. Start at the start charge and work up slowly.

The bullets you have are most likely Winchester 64gr (yes there will be weight variance) Power Point. This is an excellent bullet. I use it for deer and home defense.

Hodgdon has data for the 64gr bullet in their 2008 manual. 25gr of W748 is a max charge, drop 10% and work up slowly. This load will duplicate the factory Winchester 64gr PP load. For the 64gr PP bullet, using 63gr data is ok, just start low and work up.

Hodgdon also has data available online at their website. Varget is a really great powder for .223. Really gets bullets moving.