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gunnm619@aol.com
10-01-2005, 2:39 AM
Ok I have what I think is a pretty good question. A pistol grip is what it is, a pistol grip. But what about a thumb hole stock? Can someone give me a complete definition and the variables that constitue a stock being thumb hole. I seen several stocks now that are pistol grip style but from the bottom part of the grip it forms into a true butt stock, and at the near top it does not fully encircle the hole. I guess this is legal correct? But lets say someone designs one just like a thumbhole stock but not drill all the way through. A hole dug into the stock for your thumb, but not completely out the other side. Is that considered a thumb hole stock? I think one could be made for a AR15 or any other type of long gun where one desires a grip. Which is pretty much what a thumb hole stock is made to do, have a grip and butt stock as one piece. What you guys think? Or am I just thinking of something stupid. If I get no replys I wont be suprised. http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

saki302
10-01-2005, 6:15 AM
Haha- I thought of EXACTLY the same thing back in 1999.

Somehow, I doubt it would fly, but technically, it's not a thumb-*HOLE* stock without the hole!

-Dave

artherdGROUPEESUCKS
10-02-2005, 12:00 AM
A hole dug into the stock for your thumb, but not completely out the other side. Is that considered a thumb hole stock?

BTDT, yes it is http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/sb23.htm

978.20 Definitions

(e) "thumbhole stock" means a stock with a hole that allows the thumb of the trigger hand to penetrate into or through the stock while firing.

gunnm619@aol.com
10-02-2005, 4:20 PM
Interesting. Ok, How about a stock where the thumb rides "up" along side the grip, instead of through it. The wouldnt seem to bad.

Moonclip
10-03-2005, 11:06 AM
I think you may be on to something but somehow I doubt DOJ will end up allowing it.

10-03-2005, 2:27 PM
I once had the idea of an elastic cord of some kind that is attached where the pistol grip would be and to the side of the stock. I thought it would help make it easier to hold the "banned by feature" guns, but then I realized that my idea was insanity. Those of us not fortunate enough (or old enough) to have bought and registered before the ban sometimes have desperate thoughts in these desperate times. http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

C.G.
10-03-2005, 2:49 PM
Originally posted by Blacklisted:
Those of us not fortunate enough (or old enough) to have bought and registered before the ban sometimes have desperate thoughts in these desperate times. http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

How true! http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

artherdGROUPEESUCKS
10-03-2005, 10:51 PM
This however is interesting...

[URL=http://www.fabten.com/what's_new.htm[/url]
http://www.fabten.com/newgrip.gif

C.G.
10-03-2005, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by artherdGROUPEESUCKS:
This however is interesting...

[URL=http://www.fabten.com/what's_new.htm[/url]
http://www.fabten.com/newgrip.gif

This topic has been done to death; that is not legal in PRK on an AR that has not been registered as an assault weapon and if it has been then you would not want to put that on (how am I doing, Technical Ted? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

saki302
10-04-2005, 3:54 AM
I have a vision of that poor AR pivoting to the left, and sliding straight out of that guys hand, clattering down to the floor...

-Dave

imported_Skammy
10-04-2005, 8:34 PM
Originally posted by cg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by artherdGROUPEESUCKS:
This however is interesting...

<A HREF="http://www.fabten.com/what's_new.htm[/url" TARGET=_blank>
http://www.fabten.com/newgrip.gif

This topic has been done to death; that is not legal in PRK on an AR that has not been registered as an assault weapon and if it has been then you would not want to put that on (how am I doing, Technical Ted? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[URL=http://www.robarm.com/DOJ%20Answers%208Jan04.pdf]http://www.robarm.com/DOJ%20Answers%208Jan04.pdf</A>

11 CCR 978.20 (d) defines a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon to mean, "...a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing."

A "pistol style grasp" allows the fingers to wrap firmly around the grip. The alternative Barrett 82A1 "thumb hold" exemplar cannot be considered an assault weapon pistol grip because the device allows only for the thumb, and not all the fingers to grasp the device.

So something like that would work but not the one pictured as it lets more then just your thumb hold it..

ohsmily
10-06-2005, 10:20 AM
It doesn't matter what you put on a NON-REGISTERED AR-15 (and clone) to avoid the evil features because the entire class of AR-15 recievers is banned in the CA legislation. Even just the bare receiver is illegal to have (if not registered).

Putting one of these funky grip items would only make a gun legal that isn't banned by name or class of guns. The Robinson Armament Recon rifle is an example. This is the situation where leaving a pistol grip off the rifle eeks the gun by the laws and makes it legal.

artherdGROUPEESUCKS
10-09-2005, 5:25 PM
#1 Has anyone sent one in to be examined by the DOJ yet? If not, I will purchase one and do so. I do not see ALL of the fingers contacting the grip in question either.

This will remain conjecture untill we hear from the DOJ who have examined an SVI grip.


Does anyone have a picture or better yet an exemplar of the Barrett M82A1 "Thumb Grip?"

#2) Adam, you are plainly wrong although the DOJ has not removed language to the effect. Read up on Harrott v Kings County.

C.G.
10-09-2005, 6:42 PM
Originally posted by artherdGROUPEESUCKS:
#1 Has anyone sent one in to be examined by the DOJ yet? If not, I will purchase one and do so. I do not see ALL of the fingers contacting the grip in question either.

This will remain conjecture untill we hear from the DOJ who have examined an SVI grip.


Does anyone have a picture or better yet an exemplar of the Barrett M82A1 "Thumb Grip?"

#2) Adam, you are plainly wrong although the DOJ has not removed language to the effect. Read up on Harrott v Kings County.

Adam is right. Harrottt v. Kings County only applies to weapons by name of manufacturers. AR-15s and AK-47s are banned by series (any AR-15 clone or AK-47 clone). The only legal AR-15s that are legal have been determined by DOJ to be substantially different from an AR-15, such as FAB-10, GB Sales Bushmaster or the pinned Vulcan. However, if you want to be the sacrificial lamb, go for it. I would be delighted, if I were proven wrong. I highly suggest that whatever you want to send in you would do it from out of state.

artherdGROUPEESUCKS
10-10-2005, 12:50 AM
cg; Have you read the entire Harrott decision? I have and I belive you are mistaken. It applies specifically to the 'series' language. The decision upheld that the Attorney General *CAN* specify that something is an "AR series" gun, he can make this call withought any new laws passed.

HOWEVER, in order to declare a gun an AR series, he must actually do exactly that, declare the specific make/model stamping to be an AR series gun and publish it in an updated list.

I cannot reveal too much at this time, but I should soon be able to 'prove you wrong' as they say. I too hope I am successful.