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View Full Version : Does PPT FFL check to see if the gun is stolen?


ucsdryder
09-20-2009, 12:27 PM
This might be a dumb question, but if I do a PPT at an FFL does the gunshop do a background check on the gun immediately? My fear is that I meet the individual at the FFL, give him the money, and 10 days later I find out the gun is stolen and I am SOL.

Thanks.

kemasa
09-20-2009, 9:30 PM
There is no check to see if the firearm is stolen that I am aware of. There is no federal database which can be checked. The background check is done on the person, not the firearm.

halifax
09-21-2009, 4:25 AM
Some related information here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2123527&postcount=3)

OCArmory
09-21-2009, 9:39 AM
If it is a handgun the serial is run along with the seller and buyer. On a rifle only the seller and buyer are checked not the firearm itself. That being said if the firearm comes up wanted for some reason you would have plenty of info to go after the seller.
Mike

kemasa
09-21-2009, 1:46 PM
There is no Federal database of stolen firearms. They might check for CA, but I don't know of any database for stolen firearms in CA, but it might be for law enforcement only.

halifax
09-21-2009, 3:34 PM
There is no Federal database of stolen firearms. They might check for CA, but I don't know of any database for stolen firearms in CA, but it might be for law enforcement only.

Must be something out there. The 30-day hold on consignment/pawn firearms is supposed to be to check if they have been reported stolen.

Ron-Solo
09-21-2009, 3:55 PM
There is no Federal database of stolen firearms.

NCIC has a stolen database. It is a Federal system. Input is made directly by state systems that interface with it.


They might check for CA, but I don't know of any database for stolen firearms in CA, but it might be for law enforcement only.

California has AFS or Automated Firearms System which provides LE info on stolen firearms, DROS info on handguns, and AW registration info. LE can access this system via radio dispatch (AW returns are restricted via radio-only allowed under certain circumstances) or computer terminals in their vehicles


I've recovered many stolen guns from all over the country over the last 30 years.

:D

dachan
09-21-2009, 4:08 PM
Handguns are checked, that's one of the reasons DROS information includes the SN for handgun transfers.

Just had a transfer stopped last month during the 10day wait because the handgun was listed as stolen. Supposedly it was reported stolen in San Jose, made it to a Reno pawn shop, purchased by a Redwood City resident on a national gun forum and shipped back to a FFL in Sunnyvale (less than 5 miles from it was originally stolen) to do the transfer.

After being notified by the DOJ of the hold, the DOJ let SJPD take over; in fact the representative basically said anything a PD wants trumps DOJ. A couple of weeks later SJPD contacted me and seized the firearm. Buyer was refunded his money from the pawn shop. Finally, I heard the gun was actually taken by a girlfriend during a bad breakup and pawned.

tenpercentfirearms
09-22-2009, 6:50 AM
Yes they check handguns. Becky sold a P99 or something and had a blonde moment and put the model number down as the serial number. Well apparently she wasn't the only one to make that mistake as someone reported some stolen and had done the same thing. So that pistol was flagged as stolen. She had an interesting conversation on the phone with the DOJ because they didn't believe her that the serial numbers were wrong. She had to prove it by saying since there were two pistols of the same type stolen, why would they have the same serial numbers? I guess that is when the other lady on the phone suddenly got it.

Long guns, nothing is checked.

kemasa
09-22-2009, 1:01 PM
Is the check for stolen guns nationwide or just in CA? I know there is no means for a FFL to check to see if a firearm is stolen, at least no easy way.

tenpercentfirearms
09-22-2009, 7:36 PM
Is the check for stolen guns nationwide or just in CA? I know there is no means for a FFL to check to see if a firearm is stolen, at least no easy way.

I think it is federal like NICS. However, that is a "I think".

RANDO
09-22-2009, 8:26 PM
why dont they check rifles?

FortCourageArmory
09-22-2009, 11:27 PM
I had two guys come in to do a PPT a few weeks ago. The DOJ sent a "Delay Delivery" message a few days after the PPT happened. A few days after that, I had SIX LAPD "Gun Squad" detectives in my store confiscating the two handguns that were being PPT'd. The lead detective said the guns were reported stolen some time back. They were alerted by DOJ and came to collect the firearms.

So, most definitley YES, they check out the handguns to see if they were stolen.

FortCourageArmory
09-22-2009, 11:28 PM
why dont they check rifles?
Rifle and shotgun PPTs do not include serial numbers or model numbers. Nothing to check.

tenpercentfirearms
09-23-2009, 6:54 AM
I had two guys come in to do a PPT a few weeks ago. The DOJ sent a "Delay Delivery" message a few days after the PPT happened. A few days after that, I had SIX LAPD "Gun Squad" detectives in my store confiscating the two handguns that were being PPT'd. The lead detective said the guns were reported stolen some time back. They were alerted by DOJ and came to collect the firearms.

So, most definitley YES, they check out the handguns to see if they were stolen.

How did you handle that? What kind of authority do they have to confiscate the firearms? Do they need a warrant? Do they have some official looking form that states they are stolen? Who is to say someone doesn't claim their LAPD and just waltz right on in and leave? How did you sign it out in your A&D book?

OCArmory
09-23-2009, 9:05 AM
I would like to know the answers to tenpercent's question as well. Please let us know what the DOJ advised you to do.
Mike

dachan
09-23-2009, 9:22 AM
In the case here, DOJ just said to do whatever the PD wanted. They came by, picked up the firearm, only left a business card and the firearm was logged out in the A&D under the case number to SJPD.

FortCourageArmory
09-23-2009, 12:06 PM
How did you handle that? What kind of authority do they have to confiscate the firearms? Do they need a warrant? Do they have some official looking form that states they are stolen? Who is to say someone doesn't claim their LAPD and just waltz right on in and leave? How did you sign it out in your A&D book?
DOJ advised that I turn the two firearms over to the detectives. They (DOJ) had contacted LAPD advising them that the guns came back as reported stolen. My guess is that DOJ ran them through an NCIC-like check and got a hit. As for authority, a LEO has the authority to taken into custody any property involved in a crime. I called their boss and confirmed this so I turned the firearms over to them. I got an LAPD "Receipt For Property Taken Into Custody" form listing the guns (and their cases) by make, model and serial number, the ID number of the detective taking custody, and a business card with their phone # and the case number on it. In my book, I booked them out as "Confiscated by LAPD" with the case number in the Disposition block.

tenpercentfirearms
09-24-2009, 7:28 AM
DOJ advised that I turn the two firearms over to the detectives. They (DOJ) had contacted LAPD advising them that the guns came back as reported stolen. My guess is that DOJ ran them through an NCIC-like check and got a hit. As for authority, a LEO has the authority to taken into custody any property involved in a crime. I called their boss and confirmed this so I turned the firearms over to them. I got an LAPD "Receipt For Property Taken Into Custody" form listing the guns (and their cases) by make, model and serial number, the ID number of the detective taking custody, and a business card with their phone # and the case number on it. In my book, I booked them out as "Confiscated by LAPD" with the case number in the Disposition block.

Sounds reasonable. When the DOJ stole my receivers I logged them out to Jim Marsh CA DOJ. He still has them.