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View Full Version : use care in possessing "almost" AWs in CA - check local DA


bwiese
02-28-2005, 10:49 AM
At the recent bay area NRA Members Council meeting which hosted Calif DOJ's Firearms Div. Randy Rossi and Tim Reigert (head, asst head) there was a Q&A session.

These guys emphasized that - while DOJ does generally oversee the administration of firearms laws, sets some standards & establish regulations within legislated purview - sometimes the DOJ might be looser than local DAs - and local DAs are the ones that generally prosecute you.

They repeatedly emphasized that when you're "close to the edge" you could have "58 guys looking at you" - meaning 58 district attorneys, one per county. And with an issue one DA thinks is legal albeit borderline, the other DA might well prosecute.

Unregistered almost-Type III assault weapons were discussed - like driving around with, say, a FAL clone w/pistol grip detached.
If that pistol grip were in your possession, and the FAL and pistol grip were not in seperate locked cases, some DAs might consider that possessing an illegal unreg'd AW. That pistol grip is just too easy to attach/detach and 'ease' might be a consideration by a DA.

Here's my take on stuff like this: <UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI> if i had an almost-AW (i.e., FAL clone missing pistol grip) I myself would not even OWN a separate pistol grip but would keep them out of state at my destination.

<LI> if you were travelling out of state and driving thru various CA counties w/metro areas, and you wanted to take your almost-FAL with you, keep the rifle in a locked case (even though not required since it's not really an AW) and keep the pistol grip in a _separate_ locked case!!!

<LI> personally I think a CaliFAL w/fixed 10rd mag is much better than the removed-pistol-grip FAL. The former can be readily perceived clearly a complete rifle, while the latter looks kinda shady.

<LI> generally speaking, if you are storing or travelling with an almost-AW that is not reg'd as an AW, and separate parts that might turn it into an AW, I'd _at least_ keep parts locked away from each other.

[/list]

It might behoove us to write well-formed letters to various local DAs, esp in metro areas, about how close to a Type III AW (when unregistered) can one come, and how isolated the key parts have to be from the gun/frame...

Bill Wiese
San Jose

bwiese
02-28-2005, 10:49 AM
At the recent bay area NRA Members Council meeting which hosted Calif DOJ's Firearms Div. Randy Rossi and Tim Reigert (head, asst head) there was a Q&A session.

These guys emphasized that - while DOJ does generally oversee the administration of firearms laws, sets some standards & establish regulations within legislated purview - sometimes the DOJ might be looser than local DAs - and local DAs are the ones that generally prosecute you.

They repeatedly emphasized that when you're "close to the edge" you could have "58 guys looking at you" - meaning 58 district attorneys, one per county. And with an issue one DA thinks is legal albeit borderline, the other DA might well prosecute.

Unregistered almost-Type III assault weapons were discussed - like driving around with, say, a FAL clone w/pistol grip detached.
If that pistol grip were in your possession, and the FAL and pistol grip were not in seperate locked cases, some DAs might consider that possessing an illegal unreg'd AW. That pistol grip is just too easy to attach/detach and 'ease' might be a consideration by a DA.

Here's my take on stuff like this: <UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI> if i had an almost-AW (i.e., FAL clone missing pistol grip) I myself would not even OWN a separate pistol grip but would keep them out of state at my destination.

<LI> if you were travelling out of state and driving thru various CA counties w/metro areas, and you wanted to take your almost-FAL with you, keep the rifle in a locked case (even though not required since it's not really an AW) and keep the pistol grip in a _separate_ locked case!!!

<LI> personally I think a CaliFAL w/fixed 10rd mag is much better than the removed-pistol-grip FAL. The former can be readily perceived clearly a complete rifle, while the latter looks kinda shady.

<LI> generally speaking, if you are storing or travelling with an almost-AW that is not reg'd as an AW, and separate parts that might turn it into an AW, I'd _at least_ keep parts locked away from each other.

[/list]

It might behoove us to write well-formed letters to various local DAs, esp in metro areas, about how close to a Type III AW (when unregistered) can one come, and how isolated the key parts have to be from the gun/frame...

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Dr. EBR
03-01-2005, 2:02 AM
That's nice to know. But somehow you have to get caught with an unreg'd AW or "AW-like" firearm before all this is even relevant. I personally would only worry about this if regular Joe's are consistently getting shook down and arrested at random just for heading out to the range with an unreg'd AW. I have yet to hear of such an instance -- only stories of people getting arrested for other crimes as the primary offense before they are charged for unreg'd AWs. I've never had anyone ask me to produce my EBR registration when I'm out and about. Besides, EBRs aren't exactly unique items seen at ranges.

I guess what I'm saying is that someone who never wants to break any law would practically never leave his house. Even then there are plenty of laws to be broken if you are a shut-in. But I guess you can never be too safe.

bwiese
03-01-2005, 8:48 AM
EBR...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">EBR wrote: &nbsp &nbsp ...somehow you have to get caught with an unreg'd AW or "AW-like" firearm before all this is even relevant. I personally would only worry about this if regular Joe's are consistently getting shook down and arrested at random just for heading out to the range with an unreg'd AW. I have yet to hear of such an instance - only stories of people getting arrested for other crimes as the primary offense before they are charged for unreg'd AWs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good luck. Really hope other people don't take your advice. Possession of an unregistered AW is now chargeable as a FELONY.

There could be a traffic stop for a busted taillight. Or a burglary/fire in your house. Or a car accident: you're rear-ended and the trunk pops open. Whatever event that has even the most minor law-enforcement involvement, even when nothing is your fault, puts you at risk of losing ALL your firearms rights in ANY state, not just CA.

You remind me of some of the Nevada FFL buffoons at the Big Reno Gunshow back when the Fed. AW Ban was still in force. I saw quite a few illegally-configured AWs there. "Aw, they're not bustin' for that," they'd say to my comments. Last August, several FFLs were indeed busted there solely for Fed AW violations - apparently not even NFA/full-auto stuff. Some of these guys have probably already plead guilty in plea baragin, or may be awaiting trial for a law that no longer exists (due to 9/13/04 'sunset' date) and have now lost all firearms rights.

There's no such thing as conditional enforcement/prosecution of felony crimes. There's no good ol' boy exemption, which is what you've implied. Just because they're not looking for AW violations directly doesn't mean you won't be charged with 'em if encountered thru a chance situation. And if you're driving thru a metro area w/an antigun DA you're even more at risk!

And just because you haven't heard of them (AW charges) doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Probably some plead-outs: it's entirely possible that a negotiated felony plea include a large fine and no jail, an opportunity many folks charged would jump at - surrendering all firearms rights in the future.

At the _very_ best, if you have an encounter like I've mentioned above, you'll at a minimum LOSE the rifle, and possibly any other AWs you have. (There is the possibility that w/possesion of one unreg'd AW they might just ask for disposal of weapon but multiple unreg'd AW will likely result in charges).

This does happen. An acquaintance of mine lost an AR10 to avoid felony bust - police/fire came to his house due to situation w/elderly father.



Bill Wiese
San Jose

dave3006
03-01-2005, 10:50 AM
Bill, it is my opinion that you have an unusual fascination for the law if you are indeed not a cop. It strikes me as not normal. I am also stuck by the fact that you can cite title and verse ad infinitum without (most of the time) some sort of commentary on the unjust nature of these oppressive, illegal laws.

Just out of curiousity, you seem to love knowing and following ALL the rules. What is the limit? When will you personally decide that you can not tolerate these laws and personally ignore them?

(This is a serious question. I am curious)

Dr. EBR
03-01-2005, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:
There's no such thing as conditional enforcement/prosecution of felony crimes. There's no good ol' boy exemption, which is what you've implied.

Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, that's not what I implied, in all fairness to me. I stated that there isn't a systematic application of the current AW laws to make all these details relevant to everyday life, for the most part. Meaning that there isn't someone lurking at the range who is walking around checking the angles of grips, the combination of certain features, whether or not the magazine is truly "detachable," etc. Even as you implied, the most likely way to get busted for an illegal weapon is to (1) commit a crime or (2) be in any random situation where a weapon may be discovered by authorities who weren't originally looking for them. In other words, if we're talking percent chance of getting on the wrong side of the law and facing a felony charge, then it's very low for the average person. I'm simply taking the position that there's an arbitrary 0.01% chance that any single person would even have to deal with the law. You've taken the position that you want want to go over everything with a fine tooth comb to avoid being part of that 0.01% who will be unlucky enough to face the law. And that's perfectly fine. But there's nothing wrong with bringing up the concept of practicality vs. literality.

Never have I advocated blatantly breaking the law. However, we all know that many gun owners inadvertently break laws because of the way they are written. I'm just saying that an arbitrary 99.99% of such "regular Joe's" will continue living their lives without interruption by legal issues.

bwiese
03-01-2005, 11:56 AM
Dave3006:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...it is my opinion that you have an unusual fascination for the law if you are indeed not a cop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm getting friggin' tired of your insinuation that I'm a cop, a narc, etc.

[BTW, Dave, how many cops do you know have patents or that can read & write? USPTO# 6493666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It strikes me as not normal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooh, this is rich. You were probably one of the guys in school who thought the nerds were uncool. Fine with me. Those guys today are garbagemen, homeless, used car dealers, etc. 20 yrs later "uncool" = "practical".

Your tirade kinda reminds me of current situation in inner-city public schools, where gang members and losers often attack the studious because it's "too whitey".

Normal = underemployed, under-bathed, ill-spoken, ill-prepared, TV-satiated, no shoeshine, with a dirty kitty litter box. I am NOT normal.

BTW, if you said that to my face I'd really be tempted to punch you in the jaw (albeit mindful how an assault charge might affect my rights to own firearms in the future - see, I think before I do.) You're pretty friggin' brave hiding under your pseudonymous user ID here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...also stuck by the fact that you can cite title and verse ad infinitum without (most of the time) some sort of commentary on the unjust nature of these oppressive, illegal laws. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooh, now you sound like a Maoist communist leader where party cadres are supposed to "self criticize". I don't need to be politically (in)correct for your two-bit sake. Besides, complaining here is preaching to the choir and is a waste of air, electrons, etc. I'd like to keep a few folks outta the cooler.

How much money do you yearly send to NRA/ILA? Are you an NRA Life Member? They're not perfect but at least they are fighting some things, and are about the only well-organized force we can coalesce around. (Albeit their work is more on a national level than in CA.) Have you taken gun-neutral or even antigun folks, coworkers, etc. out shooting on your own nickel - to demystify and de-illegitimize firearms ownership???

I'd guess not.

What's funny, though, is that you assail me for some general overall knowledge, my answers to people's questions, and for trying to keep others out of trouble.

If I can help keep a few dudes outta jail and with guns - and VOTING - then I'm happy. That's PRODUCTIVITY, baby.

The posting I made here related to information I got "directly from the horse's mouth" (or pick another orifice). It is especially relevant due to varying standards of various county DAs.

Do you pay attention to tax laws? Sure, it costs you money. (If you don't, you're stupid - but if you're stupid you may not have much money to tax, so it could be self-limiting, especially in your case.)

Similarly, you need to pay attention to these laws. These laws affect your freedom and your future right to own firearms. Even simple minor deviations at best result in the loss of expensive arm(s), and at worst result in felony charges, large fines, reduced chances of quality employment in the future, etc.

I have the luxury of no wife/no kids, and can find someone to take care of my cat if I went to the cooler. But if you don't care for yourself, what about your family? Statistically, immediate families of incarcerated felons often go on the dole - paid for by myself, and others here. Geez, thanks; that was big of you to make pay for your screwup.

And as a true armchair Rambo, I'm sure you're sitting in your Barcalounger waiting for the call for revolution. Of course, you can't practice shooting much because you can't take your rifle to the range or open space and practice because you're worred about a traffic stop.

Hey, if you're gonna be a violator, be a FLAGRANT and INTENTIONAL violator. Don't go to jail for mere idiocy (not that I'd have to help you with that).

If you're so uppity about my knowledge of legal compliance and are truly committed to the cause of violating the law, great. Do this: put a loaded, unregistered AR15 in your trunk. Drive around with a "f*ck cops" and an "I love my AR15" bumpersticker....
....then call me when you're pulled over.

Do you want regular or that new warm sensation KY Jelly sent to your cell??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> you seem to love knowing and following ALL the rules. What is the limit? When will you personally decide that you can not tolerate these laws and personally ignore them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't love following them at all. And you seem mystified that a few minutes of some relatively light reading might be dangerous or "overcooperative" with the DiFis of this world. I know these laws in DETAIL so I can aggressively and intelligently push them to the limit without fear of prosection.

I shoot enough and have enough AWs that ignoring these laws will likely lead to problems in a relatively short time. All it takes is one burned-out taillight. I don't have to look over my shoulder when I drive to the range. Nor do I worry if my stove catches on fire that I have to go hide my gun(safe) when fire/cops/etc come in.

Other people know these laws and try to assist others in staying legal as well. Maybe they're just less verbose about it than I am.

I've already seen one poor guy almost get charged with a felony. As it stands, he just lost an $1800 AR10T.


Bill Wiese (unafraid to sign my name, howzabout you?)
San Jose

bwiese
03-01-2005, 12:14 PM
BRD...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BRD wrote: I stated that there isn't a systematic application of the current AW laws to make all these details relevant to everyday life, for the most part. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, that's the PROBLEM. A sheriff that winks at your paper-free AR15 or FAL in Modoc county is not the sheriff in LA who spread eagles you, seizes your guns, and gives relevant info to DA so you can be charged w/a felony.

That's fine if you wanna hang out in the backwoods, but if you have to live in a normal 'burban area it's different.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Meaning that there isn't someone lurking at the range who is walking around checking the combination of certain features, whether or not the magazine is truly "detachable," etc.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always wonder about traffic stops near shooting ranges. They're staking out bars for DUIs, why not shooting range areas next? And cops can readily figure a pretext to go onto shooting ranges at any time and inspect. All it takes is 'suspicion' of a crusading local DA.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Even as you implied, the most likely way to get busted for an illegal weapon is to (1) commit a crime or (2) be in any random situation where a weapon may be discovered by authorities who weren't originally looking for them.... talking percent chance of getting on the wrong side of the law and facing a felony charge, then it's very low for the average person. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, you're different than I am. I want ZERO chance of exposure to felony charges. I'll save gambling for Vegas.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I'm simply taking the position that there's an arbitrary 0.01% chance that any single person would even have to deal with the law. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I personally know quite a few gun people. Already one has lost his AW and narrowly avoided felony charges.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You've taken the position that you want want to go over everything with a fine tooth comb to avoid being part of that 0.01% who will be unlucky enough to face the law....
But there's nothing wrong with bringing up the concept of practicality vs. literality </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're irrationally assuming 0.01%. Depending on your location, etc. it's relatively easy to have innocent contact w/LEO that turns into a problem.

When your kid has to be hospitalized because he drank paint thinner, or he stole a candybar and juvy officer has a home interview with you, or grandpa is seeing things with his new meds and calls 911, that ain't too isolated.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">we all know that many gun owners inadvertently break laws because of the way they are written. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is a broad concept not just applicable to gunlaw.

Actually they're fairly readily understandable for most things if you just read 'em.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">just saying that an arbitrary 99.99% of such "regular Joe's" will continue living their lives without interruption by legal issues </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, you'll prob eventually have 2%-3% of the population of 'average Joes' in non-boonie areas eventually lose their guns and/or be charged w/felonies.

If you don't believe me, please talk to a lawyer.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

dave3006
03-01-2005, 12:21 PM
Looks like I struck a nerve. I don't think you would be so angry if you didn't believe I had a point.

Your not as smart as you think if you would take a swing at anyone for a statement you didn't like. You and I will never meet. However, I have a black belt in Karate, 10 years of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I carry a 5" knife, and I have a CCW. A person would be insane to swing at me just because his feelings are hurt. Not smart, Bill.

I am an electrical engineer with a wife and kides and earn over $140K per year. You don't have to be white trash to dislike illegal laws.

If you don't like criticism, then maybe you should balance your unusual fascination of the draconian laws of this state with an appropriate condemnation. Your endless recitations without some sort of criticism are implied as justification.

You want everyone to know how smart you are.

bwiese
03-01-2005, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:
Dave3006:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...it is my opinion that you have an unusual fascination for the law if you are indeed not a cop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm getting friggin' tired of your insinuation that I'm a cop, a narc, etc.

[BTW, Dave, how many cops do you know have patents or that can read & write? USPTO# 6493666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It strikes me as not normal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooh, this is rich. You were probably one of the guys in school who thought the nerds were uncool. Fine with me. Those guys today are garbagemen, homeless, used car dealers, etc. 20 yrs later "uncool" = "practical".

Your tirade kinda reminds me of current situation in inner-city public schools, where gang members and losers often attack the studious because it's "too whitey".

Normal = underemployed, under-bathed, ill-spoken, ill-prepared, TV-satiated, no shoeshine, with a dirty kitty litter box. I am NOT normal.

BTW, if you said that to my face I'd really be tempted to punch you in the jaw (albeit mindful how an assault charge might affect my rights to own firearms in the future - see, I think before I do.) You're pretty friggin' brave hiding under your pseudonymous user ID here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...also stuck by the fact that you can cite title and verse ad infinitum without (most of the time) some sort of commentary on the unjust nature of these oppressive, illegal laws. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooh, now you sound like a Maoist communist leader where party cadres are supposed to "self criticize". I don't need to be politically (in)correct for your two-bit sake. Besides, complaining here is preaching to the choir and is a waste of air, electrons, etc. I'd like to keep a few folks outta the cooler.

How much money do you yearly send to NRA/ILA? Are you an NRA Life Member? They're not perfect but at least they are fighting some things, and are about the only well-organized force we can coalesce around. (Albeit their work is more on a national level than in CA.) Have you taken gun-neutral or even antigun folks, coworkers, etc. out shooting on your own nickel - to demystify and de-illegitimize firearms ownership???

I'd guess not.

What's funny, though, is that you assail me for some general overall knowledge, my answers to people's questions, and for trying to keep others out of trouble.

If I can help keep a few dudes outta jail and with guns - and VOTING - then I'm happy. That's PRODUCTIVITY, baby.

The posting I made here related to information I got "directly from the horse's mouth" (or pick another orifice). It is especially relevant due to varying standards of various county DAs.

Do you pay attention to tax laws? Sure, it costs you money. (If you don't, you're stupid - but if you're stupid you may not have much money to tax, so it could be self-limiting, especially in your case.)

Similarly, you need to pay attention to these laws. These laws affect your freedom and your future right to own firearms. Even simple minor deviations at best result in the loss of expensive arm(s), and at worst result in felony charges, large fines, reduced chances of quality employment in the future, etc.

I have the luxury of no wife/no kids, and can find someone to take care of my cat if I went to the cooler. But if you don't care for yourself, what about your family? Statistically, immediate families of incarcerated felons often go on the dole - paid for by myself, and others here. Geez, thanks; that was big of you to make me/us pay for your screwup.

And as a true armchair Rambo, I'm sure you're sitting in your Barcalounger waiting for the call for revolution. Of course, you can't practice shooting much because you can't take your rifle to the range or open space and practice because you're worried about a traffic stop.

Hey, if you're gonna be a violator, be a FLAGRANT and INTENTIONAL violator. Don't go to jail for mere idiocy (not that I'd have to help you with that).

If you're so uppity about my knowledge of legal compliance and are truly committed to the cause of violating the law, great. Do this: put a loaded, unregistered AR15 in your trunk. Drive around with a "f*ck cops" and an "I love my AR15" bumpersticker....
....then call me when you're pulled over.

Do you want regular or that new warm sensation KY Jelly sent to your cell??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> you seem to love knowing and following ALL the rules. What is the limit? When will you personally decide that you can not tolerate these laws and personally ignore them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't love following them at all. And you seem mystified that a few minutes of some relatively light reading might be dangerous or "overcooperative" with the DiFis of this world. I know these laws in DETAIL so I can aggressively and intelligently push them to the limit without fear of prosection.

I shoot enough and have enough AWs that ignoring these laws will likely lead to problems in a relatively short time. All it takes is one burned-out taillight. I don't have to look over my shoulder when I drive to the range. Nor do I worry if my stove catches on fire that I have to go hide my gun(safe) when fire/cops/etc come in.

Other people know these laws and try to assist others in staying legal as well. Maybe they're just less verbose about it than I am.

I've already seen one poor guy almost get charged with a felony. As it stands, he just lost an $1800 AR10T.


Bill Wiese (unafraid to sign my name, howzabout you?)
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

dave3006
03-01-2005, 12:42 PM
Looks like I struck a nerve. I don't think you would be so angry if you didn't believe I had a point.

Your not as smart as you think if you would take a swing at anyone for a statement you didn't like. You and I will never meet. However, I have a black belt in Karate, 10 years of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I carry a 5" knife, and I have a CCW. A person would be insane to swing at me just because his feelings are hurt. Not smart, Bill.

I am an electrical engineer with a wife and kides and earn over $140K per year. You don't have to be white trash to dislike illegal laws.

If you don't like criticism, then maybe you should balance your unusual fascination of the draconian laws of this state with an appropriate condemnation. Your endless recitations without some sort of criticism are implied as justification.

You want everyone to know how smart you are.

endings1@aol.com
03-01-2005, 1:41 PM
Bill, let it go and keep doing what you're doing. I appreciate your presense and posts here, we probably wouldn't be in this mess if more people were aware of our rights being violated. I'm amazed that others in CA keep up with CA firearms laws, I thought I was the only one, until I found the internet and this board.http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

There's nothing wrong with stating facts and wanting to help people, some people may disagree, and it easily turns into a pissing match, who gets the last word, stupid pride thing.

Best thing to do, is not waste any more time on negativity. Life's too short for bickering on the internet.

Peace,
Stanze

bwiese
03-01-2005, 1:42 PM
Well, like some cubicle EEs with whom I work, you seem have a social IQ that must be at an almost autistic level for you to infer that I like these laws.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I am an electrical engineer with a wife and kids and ... You don't have to be white trash to dislike illegal laws. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good for you. Then I hope you don't go to the cooler and leave the wife & kiddies alone and miss 2 years of mortgage payments, etc.

I never said I liked the laws. YOU inferred that, and incorrectly. I just comment and post when I see someone treading into legally questionable territory. That's all.

I just happen to know the details because I own, what is it?, 10 AWs of various types (amongst many other guns) and didn't wanna cross any wires, Federal or state-wise. At that level if I did something wrong I could risk compound charges.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">you don't like criticism, then maybe you should balance your unusual fascination of the draconian laws of this state with an appropriate condemnation. Your endless recitations without some sort of criticism are implied as justification. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm more than willing take criticism from competent people. In fact some folks have occ. corrected me here in some details and I am more than glad to get the record set straight. In an open forum like this it stops incorrect info from being propagated, otherwise things travel like they're in a rumor mill.

Your comments, however, are not criticism - they're kibitzing, whining, almost like the sheep bleating "four legs good, two legs bad" in 1984. You're pro-gun, all right, and that's great - but self-congratulatory pious repetitions of our mantras and complaining that I don't scream loudly enough at DiFi are absolutely irrelevant to my legal commentary here and keeping good folks who may not have inclination/ ability to dredge thru PC 122xx laws.

You've certainly given the impression that you have grand indifference to committing multiple felonies. That's fine, it doesn't bother me - as I say, go out and get your jollies flagrantly violating the laws. Just don't get locked up for something stupid that coulda readily been avoided and that you COULD HAVE known about.

I'd just like to keep the Joe Sixpacks out of the cooler.

I do tend to be strident when I write - usu a result of directness and emphasis.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Your (sic) not as smart as you think if you would take a swing at anyone for a statement you didn't like... a person would be insane to swing at me just because his feelings are hurt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did say 'tempted'. And I don't think you'd have the guts to call me a 'narc' to my face without your knife or CCW, etc. I just don't like that sh*t said about me. Call me ugly, dirty or smelly, I don't care: call me a narc or a cop and we're in a new ballgame.

In law school, debating classes, etc. a key training element is for a person to be required to support and promote some cause/topic/etc. that he ardently and personally opposes in real-life. You can't be a good prosecutor unless you think like a defense attorney; you can't be a good defender unless you know how a DA's office thinks/acts. Here we have to think like a gun-grabbing DA - how he'd interpret the edge of the law - in order to rationally work around the law, defend yourself from him, and to know his view of the scope of the law.

I'm tired of this pi**ing contest. I posted a relevant, on-topic item about a meeting that 120+ other people joined and where they, along with myself, garnered useful information. I wanted to share that since other Type III AW folks here would likely be interested - to stay out of jail and _vote_.

If it didn't apply to you you can just go to the next post.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You want everyone to know how smart you are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm a bright guy, dunno about smart. Some things I'm smart about, some things dumb. But I do know when not to commit felonies http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But this has nothing to w/smarts, just basic reading. And if I wanted to impress folks w/my so-called smarts, there's venues other than this where I could spend my time, leading to a lot more fun & profit.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

bwiese
03-01-2005, 2:05 PM
Stanze...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stanze:
Bill, let it go and keep doing what you're doing. I appreciate your presense and posts here..... There's nothing wrong with stating facts and wanting to help people, some people may disagree, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks. Yeah, debating on a webforum is a time waster. I post here when I'm waiting for something to grind at work...

This is the 3rd or 4th? attack on various postings of mine by Dave3006 over the last 5 months. It's just a bit irritating in an otherwise pretty pleasant environment with lotsa nice folks here.

I've learned a lot about C&R laws here - saved me a lot of reading - and gotta get my C&R FFL and a Calif COE - no more one gun a month http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bill Wiese
San Jose

stillbigmac
03-01-2005, 3:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

I'm getting friggin' tired of your insinuation that I'm a cop, a narc, etc.
See you at the morning briefing http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[BTW, Dave, how many cops do you know have patents or that can read & write? USPTO# 6493666]

None but I know lots of "nerds" that have patents.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It strikes me as not normal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooh, this is rich. You were probably one of the guys in school who thought the nerds were uncool.
Ha, NO way, these guys were my lab partners so I didn't have to carry them http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Fine with me. Those guys today are garbagemen, homeless, used car dealers,

Ah yes my lifes ambition...


Normal = underemployed, under-bathed, ill-spoken, ill-prepared, TV-satiated, no shoeshine, with a dirty kitty litter box. I am NOT normal.

Hey, I kicked the cats outa the house so I wouldn't have to clean the box...


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...also stuck by the fact that you can cite title and verse ad infinitum without (most of the time) some sort of commentary on the unjust nature of these oppressive, illegal laws. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So can I.... ignorance is no excuse!



How much money do you yearly send to NRA/ILA? Are you an NRA Life Member? They're not perfect but at least they are fighting some things, and are about the only well-organized force we can coalesce around. (Albeit their work is more on a national level than in CA.) Have you taken gun-neutral or even antigun folks, coworkers, etc. out shooting on your own nickel - to demystify and de-illegitimize firearms ownership???

I bought a gunshop.. does that count?



</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This post is entirely too confrontational...

bwiese
03-01-2005, 3:17 PM
Hey BigMac,

Apologies. And thanks for the humor! How is the shop repair going? Get inventory back? Back in operation?

I rose to a bait post/troll comment to my original post unfortunately.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

rkt88edmo
03-01-2005, 5:29 PM
Did Rossi speak about anything else that was interesting?

bwiese
03-01-2005, 5:55 PM
Rokit88...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Did Rossi speak about anything else that was interesting? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lotsa 50BMG questions and 'what-ifs' on slight caliber changes.

Broadly speaking, if it's not dimensions of a 50BMG chamber - and it WILL NOT CHAMBER a 50BMG round, it's not violating the new 50BMG ban.

Other questions on 'locked case' issues. I was wondering if a locked briefcase could count as a legal gun carry case - esp as so many gunshows are displaying briefcase-like alum. carry cases.

Answer: no problem at state level, but check local laws.

Oh, you can't make your own handgun either (unless it was approved prototype for DOJ eval) since you can't mfgr an 'unsafe gun'.

Apparently single action wheelguns (w/5+ round cylinders and 3+" barrels) are, again, the exception here. (Only after I queried 'em about this.)

I'll think of some other questions asked and add to this when I remember.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

MrTenX
03-01-2005, 8:45 PM
Bill- I think you do a pretty good job explaining California firearms laws.
However, lets face it, with the myriad of laws, rules, statutes, regulations and edicts we are all already criminals.
This state enacts nearly 1000 new laws every year. I don't see how anyone can get thru a day without breaking some obscure law.

Ayn Rand wrote this in her novel Atlas Shrugged nearly 50 years ago. I think she had it already figured out-

“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against– then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers– and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged , Ch. III, "White Blackmail" "

Dave- I'm as confused and frustrated with these laws as anybody else. Doesn’t mean we have to comply with them though. However, quoting Ayn Rand again- "We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality."

After 10 years of military service and many years in retail I think I’m ready for anything .gov can dish out. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LongBch_SigP226
03-02-2005, 12:56 AM
I don't see anything wrong with what Bill is doing. I respect him for helping/educating other gun owners. Some of you need to chill out and refrain from personal attacks. I'm surprised admin or mods haven't disabled this post yet. I don't care what you do outside this forum but as long as we are here, lets preach what's right based on what the law states. I don't care if you personally agree to the law or not.

ivanimal
03-02-2005, 3:46 AM
Play nice or I will close this thread. We can all get along boys, just try. leave the bickering out of this thread or I will start to ban your posts. I hate following people around on this board. Stop it now!

PKAY
03-02-2005, 4:19 PM
Bill - I too appreciate your insight into CA gun laws and your postings here. I too am not a LEO. However, I know many. They are "gun guys" just like us. I belong to the California State Sheriffs' Association and contribute to the Redondo Beach Police Officers' fund. The vast majority of police officers agree with us. We need them on our side. It's the freakin' politicians and elected LEO leadership in some jurisdictions who are the problem.

stillbigmac
03-02-2005, 6:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ivanimal:
Play nice or I will close this thread. We can all get along boys, just try. leave the bickering out of this thread or I will start to ban your posts. I hate following people around on this board. Stop it now! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


:P

No I'm taking my ball and going home http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bwiese
03-03-2005, 2:35 PM
DRH-

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRH:
However your comment "I'd just like to keep the Joe Sixpacks out of the cooler." is a little too much. Joe may not want warm beer. To try and force warm beer on someone who does not want it, is as Michael Jackson would say "very, very devilish." http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahaha, you made my day! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bill W
San Jose

ivanimal
03-04-2005, 10:22 AM
http://www.hunt101.com/img/256516.jpg

03-04-2005, 11:45 PM
I'd like to believe that given the opportunity to meet people from this site in person,it would not be under circumstances of fisticuffs but rather under more amiable conditions instead (like a friendly handshake).

We've got enough common enemies to divvy up amongst ourselves. Why add fellow gunnies to the mix, too?