Lake City 5.56 ammo advice please

[gigahertz]

Hi I just got delivery of Lake City 5.56 ammo from two sources that I found on GunBroker.net. I don't have much er... any experience with 5.56 ammo except for what I read on this and other forums, in fact I am still waiting for my first AR (M&P15T) to get to my FFL.

I took some photos of the ammo and the boxes they came in. Can the experts here take a look and see if they are good ammo or questionable ones? I know sometimes it's hard to tell everything about the ammo without actually shooting them but can you guys please tell me what you think by what you can see from the photos?

Another question: I want to buy more of these ammo if you guys think they are good ammo, between the two which one will you choose? Btw, the american Eagle ones cost $410 shipped and the one with the NATO stamp cost $434 shipped

Note: the round (dsc03403)that has the NATO stamp came in the AmmoWorks box and the one without (dsc3399) came in the American Eagle box.

Thanks!!!

[Darklyte27]

the American Eagle is good stuff,
I dont know about the ammoworks stuff. never shot it
You dont need to buy at those high prices though.
look here

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/US_.223_55grn_FMJ.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Prvi_Partisan_.223.html
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/349.php
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=7169

Once you get your rifle, study it, read the manual, ask local calgun'ers who also have AR's to give you a run down on ARs.
Give your location, or range you plan on going to.

[ocabj]

This is all I know about AmmoWorks.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/22yearold_arms_dealer_under_investigation_establis hed_0328.html

[five.five-six]

if those prices are for 1K then the price is real good (remember those days?) if that price is for 500, then that is what you would expect to pay at big5

[gigahertz]

the American Eagle is good stuff,
I dont know about the ammoworks stuff. never shot it
You dont need to buy at those high prices though.
look here

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/US_.223_55grn_FMJ.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Prvi_Partisan_.223.html
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/349.php
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=7169

Once you get your rifle, study it, read the manual, ask local calgun'ers who also have AR's to give you a run down on ARs.
Give your location, or range you plan on going to.

Thanks for you advice. I plan on going to local outdoor range in the So. Cal area to shoot my AR. I read on here that the two main outdoor range out here ( Burro Canyon and Angeles ) are quite AR friendly so I think I should be ok.

Thanks again for your reply. I love this site, I learned so much from reading all the posts here. :thumbsup:

[Darklyte27]

You can never learn everything, your best bet is to have someone actually physically show you, and if they even have time for, test you, so you know how and what to do with a new rifle such as the AR.

I recently had to show 2 guys how to lock the bolt back, as one of them said "its a AR, it doesnt lock back" I didnt have time or wanted to bother to tell him I served in the Marines, and just about know AR's inside out.

[gigahertz]

This is all I know about AmmoWorks.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/22yearold_arms_dealer_under_investigation_establis hed_0328.html

Yikes....thats not a good sign. I hope these are not rejects or counterfeit Lake City ammo from China! :eek:


if those prices are for 1K then the price is real good (remember those days?) if that price is for 500, then that is what you would expect to pay at big5

Yup these prices are for 1000 rounds. Although I never paid much attention to 223/5.56 ammo until lately, I head that the prices were much higher and in short supply not too long ago. Hope things will get even better soon.


Thanks

[gigahertz]

You can never learn everything, your best bet is to have someone actually physically show you, and if they even have time for, test you, so you know how and what to do with a new rifle such as the AR.

I recently had to show 2 guys how to lock the bolt back, as one of them said "its a AR, it doesnt lock back" I didnt have time or wanted to bother to tell him I served in the Marines, and just about know AR's inside out.

Totally agree, nothing beats a hands-on lesson. I have a friend who knows a trainer for LAPD and he said he will try to get some range time with this trainer for us.

Are you close to the So.Cal area? Feel like showing another AR newbie the ropes? :D

[Darklyte27]

If you look at the top right im located in norcal, otherwise I would haha

[gigahertz]

If you look at the top right im located in norcal, otherwise I would haha

oh right, east bay area. :(

[Beelzy]

The Lake City ammo is Re-manufactured. Unless it was advertised as such you got stiffed.

[gigahertz]

The Lake City ammo is Re-manufactured. Unless it was advertised as such you got stiffed.

Are you saying that the Lake City ammo that I recieved from both sources are not new ammo but reloads? If so then can you please tell me how you came to that conclusion?

Thanks

[ar15barrels]

Are you saying that the Lake City ammo that I recieved from both sources are not new ammo but reloads? If so then can you please tell me how you came to that conclusion?

Easy.
The primer crimps have been remoed when the brass was processed.
Your excellent pictures in the first post make this easy to see.

Here is another picture to compare:
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/swage.jpg

The primer pocket on the right has the crimp still.
The primer pocket on the left has had the crimp removed.

[gigahertz]

Easy.
The primer crimps have been remoed when the brass was processed.
Your excellent pictures in the first post make this easy to see.

Wait, are you saying that the round in the 1st photo is a reload or both?

Thanks

[freakshow10mm]

The ring on the headstamp looks like a second strike. It looks ground and restamped to make it look like NATO LC stamp.

Think that alarms me is there is no crimp on the primer. I think AE is supposed to have it.

The head on the Ammoworks or whatever just looks too beat up. It might be new. Lack of primer sealant is another give away.

Snap a pic of the side of the case. Look for die marks.

[freakshow10mm]

We are saying your ammunition lacks a primer crimp. The crimp has been removed prior to loading, indicating it's been remanufactured.

[ar15barrels]

Wait, are you saying that the round in the 1st photo is a reload or both?

Thanks

Both, but maybe just the lighting is wrong on the 2nd picture.
Is there good visible red primer sealant on the LC08 brass?

[freakshow10mm]

I don't see it on either. Faintly on the NATO stamp Ammoworks.

[Barbarossa]

I've had good luck with this ammo. (http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-556-prvi-partizan-55gr-m193-fmj-ammo/cName/223-556-fmj-ammo)

369.95 / 1000

[gigahertz]

Sorry for the late reply.

I took some more photos on more rounds so may be you guys can see a pattern.

The American Eagle rounds all came in sealed ( glued shut ) 20 round boxes so I doubt that they are reloads. Now the Ammoworks ones I'm not sure.

DSC3429, DSC3404 and DSC3417 are photos of the American Eagle. DSC3429 and DSC3438 are photos of the Ammoworks rounds.


Thanks you guys for taking the time to reply and posting the photos.

[Darklyte27]

Your American Eagle LC 09 stuff is fine, its made this year.

[gigahertz]

Your American Eagle LC 09 stuff is fine, its made this year.

I think so. What started me wondering about these Lake City ammo was the fact that they both look a lot "less finished" then the valuepack 223 Federal ammo I got from Walmart. Since I don't reload and don't really know what to look for by looking at a round I have no idea if I was sold good ammo or not.

Since the American Eagle ammo were all in sealed boxes I think that they are ok but the Ammoworks ammo is an unknown to me.

I will be getting my AR next week and I will hopefully be able to go out to the range with my buddy who knows a lots more about AR then me to go thorugh some of these ammo.

[POINTMANDDT]

Sorry for the late reply.

I took some more photos on more rounds so may be you guys can see a pattern.

The American Eagle rounds all came in sealed ( glued shut ) 20 round boxes so I doubt that they are reloads. Now the Ammoworks ones I'm not sure.

DSC3429, DSC3404 and DSC3417 are photos of the American Eagle. DSC3429 and DSC3438 are photos of the Ammoworks rounds.


Thanks you guys for taking the time to reply and posting the photos.

If the guy on Gun Broker sold this to you by saying this was Lake City ammo then you got stiffed. If he said this was American Eagle Ammo with Lake City brass then he was honest.

American Eagle (ie Federal) uses Lake City brass for their 5.56*. But, as you can see in your pics, the brass is once fired and is not new. This is reloaded ammo, not sure if it is reloaded at Lake City or some Federal contractor.

*American Eagle® Tactical® Ammunition is loaded to military specifications with Lake City brass for reliable functioning and consistent accuracy.

[freakshow10mm]

*American Eagle® Tactical® Ammunition is loaded to military specifications with Lake City brass for reliable functioning and consistent accuracy.
No, it was military reject packaged for the civilian market.

Lake City (operated by ATK) reject = Federal AE XM193__ ammo for civilian use. You're just getting sloppy seconds.

[gigahertz]

If the guy on Gun Broker sold this to you by saying this was Lake City ammo then you got stiffed. If he said this was American Eagle Ammo with Lake City brass then he was honest.

American Eagle (ie Federal) uses Lake City brass for their 5.56*. But, as you can see in your pics, the brass is once fired and is not new. This is reloaded ammo, not sure if it is reloaded at Lake City or some Federal contractor.

*American Eagle® Tactical® Ammunition is loaded to military specifications with Lake City brass for reliable functioning and consistent accuracy.

The American Eagle ammo was sold to me as new.

I see the same ammo at one of the gun shop here in So.Cal ( Ammo Brothers ). I will bring an unopened 20 round pack to Ammo Brothers and see if they agree with you that they are in fact reloads and not new ammo.

I will post the result once I have a chance to go there in two weeks.

[gigahertz]

No, it was military reject packaged for the civilian market.

Lake City (operated by ATK) reject = Federal AE XM193__ ammo for civilian use. You're just getting sloppy seconds.

That's what I read somewhere too.

[ar15barrels]

The federal "XM" is factory new 2nds that failed some step of the military inspections.

[freakshow10mm]

And it could be something like variation out of spec for velocity. I think it's 3250 +/- 40fps. So if it chronos 3208fps average, it's not spec and it's rejected.

[gigahertz]

And it could be something like variation out of spec for velocity. I think it's 3250 +/- 40fps. So if it chronos 3208fps average, it's not spec and it's rejected.

From what you're saying and other pages that I have read so far it seems that the AE XM193 should be an ok round to shoot. I will be getting my rifle next week( damn the 10 day waiting period!) and I will go out immediately to break it in.

I have a Valuepack Federal 223 box (100 rnd) and hopefully I will be able to tell the difference between the reportedly 'hotter' load in the XM193 and the 223 retail ammo.

Report back after the range.

[freakshow10mm]

Yes, the XM193 is good stuff, it just didn't pass the military contract specifications. This could in reality be anything, even a variation of .1 MOA at 200m out of spec or, as in my previous example, 2fps variance out of spec for velocity.

If it's on the market from Federal (ATK is the subcontractor that runs the government owned Lake City plant) it's safe to shoot.

Ammunition manufacturers routinely send rejects from big contracts down to the commercial market. I lost a bid for a huge contract for Milwaukee (WI) PD for .223 ammunition. My ammunition, although more consistent and accurate than all my competitors in the bid, was 23fps faster than the specification called for, so I was out. I took the remaining ammunition I had loaded up for the contract and sold it online.

[gigahertz]

Yes, the XM193 is good stuff, it just didn't pass the military contract specifications. This could in reality be anything, even a variation of .1 MOA at 200m out of spec or, as in my previous example, 2fps variance out of spec for velocity.

If it's on the market from Federal (ATK is the subcontractor that runs the government owned Lake City plant) it's safe to shoot.

Ammunition manufacturers routinely send rejects from big contracts down to the commercial market. I lost a bid for a huge contract for Milwaukee (WI) PD for .223 ammunition. My ammunition, although more consistent and accurate than all my competitors in the bid, was 23fps faster than the specification called for, so I was out. I took the remaining ammunition I had loaded up for the contract and sold it online.

Thanks for your thorough explanation. I didn't know that you are an ammunition manufacturer. Are your currently selling any 5.56 ammo online? Calguns special? I would love to try out your product.

Thanks again for your replies.

[freakshow10mm]

Yes, my company is an 07 FFL 02 SOT. I make machine guns, silencers, and ammunition. My catalog is available online (see link in my sig line). Every day special is buy a case (1,000 rounds) and get free shipping.

Send me your address and I'll ship off a handful of .223 ammo to try out.

[gigahertz]

Yes, my company is an 07 FFL 02 SOT. I make machine guns, silencers, and ammunition. My catalog is available online (see link in my sig line). Every day special is buy a case (1,000 rounds) and get free shipping.

Send me your address and I'll ship off a handful of .223 ammo to try out.

I will, thanks!