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wilit
09-17-2009, 12:48 PM
I wanted to keep both a written and electronic copy of my bound book, so I made up a template based off the PDF listed on Surplusrifle.com website. I added some extra info that I thought the Surplusrifle.com form was lacking since I wanted to add all my firearms into the book for insurance purposes. Just thought I'd share this with anyone looking to keep an electronic copy too and you don't have a PDF editor.

Right Click and Save As for my Excel template (http://www.wilit.com/web/docs/boundbooktemplate.xls)

Here's the Surplusrifle.com example
http://www.wilit.com/web/docs/surplusrifle.jpg

Here's my file
http://www.wilit.com/web/docs/wilitboundbook.jpg

olhunter
09-17-2009, 2:10 PM
Hey, I like it!

May I make a suggestion?

Make everything wider so there's more room and will print landscape?

And make the 'non-licensee' box 3 titled rows instead of 3 columns since the columns are too narrow to write it all in.

Just my 2-cents...

Thanks for making this, very cool.


edit - oh, wait. I didn't even open it yet. Maybe it already is landscape....

wilit
09-17-2009, 2:39 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. Hadn't thought about the non-licensee section. Edited and reposted for download.

Any other suggestions, post them up. This is an open source document, so improvements are welcomed.

emcon5
09-22-2009, 6:29 PM
So is this form adequate/acceptable to use for a C&R bound book? Could you just print them out and stick them in a 3 ring binder?

Thanks,

ke6guj
09-22-2009, 6:39 PM
yes.

(E1) What is a "bound book?" [Back]

A "bound book" is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages which must be maintained on the business premises. The format must follow that prescribed in the regulations, and the pages must be numbered consecutively.

[27 CFR 478.121 and 478.125]http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#e1

erblo
09-23-2009, 12:56 PM
Thanks for making this, very useful!

00BuckShot
09-23-2009, 1:04 PM
Nice looking sheet.

shmeare
10-21-2010, 4:20 PM
thanks dude! this saved me some $

SideWinder11
10-21-2010, 4:26 PM
Awesome! Thank you!!

Noonanda
10-21-2010, 5:33 PM
I like it except for the "reason for selling" it doesnt matter to ATF why I sold a firearm, and Im not looking to give them reason to question why I sold a firearm

EOD Guy
10-23-2010, 7:24 AM
The main problem I see is that the form is not in the prescribed format in the regulation and so might not be legal. Section 478.125(f) of 27CFR is very specific about following the format in the regulation.


From the regulation:
The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below.

Roccobro
10-24-2010, 8:49 PM
Three hole punch and put it in a binder. That has been an accepted practice since I started a decade ago.

OP- Why would you have a section titled : "C&R?" if this is for a C&R (FFL03) bound book? Are you listing your non-C&R purchased guns in it?

Justin

Dr.Mauser
10-24-2010, 8:54 PM
wont need it for a year, but I'm saving it on my CPU lol

wilit
10-24-2010, 9:39 PM
Three hole punch and put it in a binder. That has been an accepted practice since I started a decade ago.

OP- Why would you have a section titled : "C&R?" if this is for a C&R (FFL03) bound book? Are you listing your non-C&R purchased guns in it?

Justin

Yeah, I threw that in there because I keep track of all of my firearms for insurance purposes.

For the record, if there's a cell you don't want, by all means download the form and edit it to your liking. That's why I put it up in xls form instead of pdf, so people can tailor it to your own needs.

tenpercentfirearms
01-20-2011, 9:26 AM
I too am concerned that the above sample doesn't meet the ATF format.

Here is a screen shot of what I use for my 01 FFL and it has gone through two audits.

http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/images/boundbook.png

I give copies of it away for free, but you can always kick down a few bucks if you like it.

http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=93&products_id=768

or e-mail me at ad@tenpercentfirearms.com

furyous68
01-20-2011, 10:20 AM
I like it except for the "reason for selling" it doesnt matter to ATF why I sold a firearm, and Im not looking to give them reason to question why I sold a firearm

Aren't you limited in certain areas as a C&R holder? I thought I read on here
somewhere that if you sell too many too quickly they can require you to get an FFL01 (Dealer?) license. Maybe that's why the "reason for selling" section is there?

finloq
01-20-2011, 11:31 AM
Wilit's has everything that is in the Greenblatt C&R FFL03 Bound Book (ISBN 1606220047) that is sold by Amazon, Midway, etc. He even has it all in the same order. Thanks for the work.

Ricky-Ray
01-20-2011, 2:00 PM
Just to clarify, I only need to keep a bound book if I have a C&R license right? Currently I don't so I wouldn't need one if I sold one or two of my C&R rifles.

finloq
01-20-2011, 3:42 PM
Just to clarify, I only need to keep a bound book if I have a C&R license right? Currently I don't so I wouldn't need one if I sold one or two of my C&R rifles.

Correct. If you do not have an active FFL03, you need no records at all. That is why some people will let their C&R's expire for a bit, then sign up again. Once your C&R expires, you can destroy your bound book. Once your C&R is granted, you need to start keeping a bound book.

VegasND
01-20-2011, 4:00 PM
Thanks, my C&R is still fairly new so I'm always interested in seeing different examples of spreadsheet bound books.

SkyStorm82
01-20-2011, 5:15 PM
On the bound book for type, do you have to spell it out? How about
LR for long rifle
HG for handgun
SG for shotgun

The books I've seen have that box as pretty small.

finloq
01-20-2011, 7:03 PM
Anybody here been audited?
I would guess that the auditor would want something that he/she could readily identify.

Interloper
01-20-2011, 8:49 PM
I think you should keep your non C&R's separate. I appreciate what you are going for...I keep a detailed record of my guns in a safe location in case of loss or theft. I just think the legally mandated ATF record should be it's own document.
Otherwise, I like to record both the import S/N and the original S/N. I know it's not required but I do it anyway. I would also delete the "reason for selling" field and enlarge the comments field.

All the same, I'm happy with my system. A journal type notebook with a separate page for each firearm...top half for acquisition, bottom for disposition.

Noonanda
01-21-2011, 6:23 AM
Aren't you limited in certain areas as a C&R holder? I thought I read on here
somewhere that if you sell too many too quickly they can require you to get an FFL01 (Dealer?) license. Maybe that's why the "reason for selling" section is there?

Does anyone here know someone, I mean actually know someone that this has happened to, not this "I heard on the internet" stuff. Cause I have bought and sold rifles, it is not my main source of income. Thats what being in the USMC is. But for example I just ordered 5 rifles from Century. I plan on picking out the best one or two, and selling the others to enhance my collection. I have done this many times with my C&R and ATF has not come knocking on my door, occasional sales not a sale every day. I dont go to gunshows and have a table with loads of guns as I have seen some "questionable" dealers do.

Interloper
01-21-2011, 8:26 AM
Does anyone here know someone, I mean actually know someone that this has happened to, not this "I heard on the internet" stuff. Cause I have bought and sold rifles, it is not my main source of income. Thats what being in the USMC is. But for example I just ordered 5 rifles from Century. I plan on picking out the best one or two, and selling the others to enhance my collection. I have done this many times with my C&R and ATF has not come knocking on my door, occasional sales not a sale every day. I dont go to gunshows and have a table with loads of guns as I have seen some "questionable" dealers do.

My only reference point is when audit threads come up on Gunboards. Some of those guys buy and sell dozens of guns a year and have collections that number in the hundreds. Several of them have been audited without issue. I don't even get the impression that any activity caught the ATF's attention but that the audits were random.
ATF almost seems like a benign organization where we 03's are concerned. I have simply never read any of the horror stories of jack-booted thuggery other FFL's have experienced.

Roccobro
01-21-2011, 10:39 AM
Does anyone here know someone, I mean actually know someone that this has happened to, not this "I heard on the internet" stuff. Cause I have bought and sold rifles, it is not my main source of income. Thats what being in the USMC is. But for example I just ordered 5 rifles from Century. I plan on picking out the best one or two, and selling the others to enhance my collection. I have done this many times with my C&R and ATF has not come knocking on my door, occasional sales not a sale every day. I dont go to gunshows and have a table with loads of guns as I have seen some "questionable" dealers do.

You know of the one user here on CG that bought like 2+ dozen of one rifle and sold all but the best two? I can't remember his name but I don't think they came knocking on his door (yet lol). Had a huge FS thread on it.

When my brother and I bought 15 SKS's in one shot, I didn't hear a peep. But then again NOBODY but the buyer and seller would know such a thing occurred until audit time.


I have heard of ATF calling a gun buyer during DROS when they had multiples of the same model. I take offense to them bothering a clean background American, but some bad apples have spoiled it for many. :(

Justin

emcon5
01-21-2011, 2:03 PM
You know of the one user here on CG that bought like 2+ dozen of one rifle and sold all but the best two? I can't remember his name but I don't think they came knocking on his door (yet lol). Had a huge FS thread on it.

This one? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=285460

Roccobro
01-21-2011, 5:17 PM
THATS IT!

Brings a tear to my eye when rifles come by the crate. :hurray: